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Perhaps the wording was a bit off there. I know that the bot doesn't do that.....yet.

Nonetheless it's database is directly linked to your official acc and your discord id. Which would be fine for me If it's done by NQ. It's not done that way now, and imho it's not the job of a tool from the community to link (and possibly further down the Road identify) users. That's NQs job, as is the enforcement of the NDA. 

 

And yes, I won't use it. That's my descicion. And afaik I'm still allowed to voice my opinion even though it's possibly against holy yama. Yes i couldn't resist. Sue me :P

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3 hours ago, fabsch412 said:

Did i understand this correctly? There are actually people that are pissed of because the bot collects public data?

Maybe it's because of this problem that I don't have this ability to disable things. 

 

I always find it amusing that people argue that social media collect your data anyway and it's not a bad thing that we do that now.

Unfortunately I don't have an account with the big social media and in my eyes it's just ridiculous to argue: "Others do it too". 

 

The tip of the iceberg for me, however, is that people draw the "personal level" card and equate the work with a person.

 

It amazes me again and again what great projects the community is building. I only find it a pity when people introduce something, then other people criticize the work and then the author of the work refers it to his personality, although never a word about him or it was never meant personally.

 

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8 hours ago, Lethys said:

Nothing. And that never was the point.

...

 But that's not even the main point. See above - that's what I despise

Alright, so that's established. Now reading your mentioned post, correct me if I'm wrong but you appear not to agree with the idea of tieing a discord account to a DU community/forum account?  🤔

 

If someone were to breach the NDA with an unlinked account, how then would you suggest we tell NQ whom to administer discipline to? I'm sure most of us involved all remember what happened on the first pre-alpha test and how quick NQ reacted to that breach. It seems to me that you'd rather not risk an account you have sunk money into so you can discuss NDA related topics publicly with your discord account which is, for all intents and purposes, free. To an extent, I agree with you and I personally don't like the fact that the NDA was extended by a year and some change. NQ has their reasons however, I personally would also agree with NQ that I would rather keep tight lipped about an awesome game rather than give the wider public a poor perception of an incomplete future product simply because I felt the need to tell everyone about it.

 

Good things come to those who wait.  😁

 

Now, while reading through missed discord messages this morning I came across this exchange from Zamarus.

Quote

The War DoctorToday at 9:28 AM
far as the bot the idea is that it takes out more human error of doing it
i know yours was a question
but it seems to be an issue for many none the less
Zamaro de MetusToday at 9:28 AM
Why can't you do both tho?
Manually for those who prefer not to profile themselves?

While I'm sure manual authentication with a random staff generated string could be used to authenticate someones community and forum profiles in relation to their discord profile, this wouldn't be an issue with a small number of users. This however would set a poor precedent once people see a second method of authenticating and, as The War Doctor mentions, opens up a possibility for human error for which we in the staff would most likely be held responsible for any mistakes and/or breaches the manually authenticated user is involved in.

 

I won't speak for the rest of the community discord moderators when I say this, but I refuse to create a second class of users who are privileged through manual authentication. I will not create a second standard for a small handful while the rest of the community has chosen to navigate through the bot which largely hasn't been an issue for the greater community.

 

The bot has been the defacto standard for the entire community for a long time now, even the members of NovaQuark that we see from time to time have gone through the process without a hitch so now it really just begs the question of why the second standard for which I feel like I answered in the second paragraph and will refer to such.

 

I also won't speak for the team on this, but if it would help ease community concerns, I'll more than happily speak with Yama and ask if he'd be willing to resign full control of the authentication bot to NovaQuark (even though he is probably reading this and typing up a reply as we speak). Be mindful however that NQ already has a very full plate with the game as it is nearing Alpha stage in more or less two months, and that it more than likely will not be an overnight event, much like how the discord officilization was discussed over a series of months.  🙃

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3 minutes ago, DarkHorizon said:

This however would set a poor precedent once people see a second method of authenticating and, as The War Doctor mentions, opens up a possibility for human error for which we in the staff would most likely be held responsible for any mistakes and/or breaches the manually authenticated user is involved in.

To go back with that, I would also like to say if you feel that we should not use a bot that is now under NQ's jurisdiction effectively, fine.

 

However we will be fine with you now personally replacing the bot for authentication purposes. We'll require you to take it as a full time job with no pay. Also, you are responsible if you make a mistake, accidentally forget who was authed, fail to account for bans, or so on so forth.

 

My next point.

 

I understand voicing your concerns. However as you probably have recognized, NQ has created this forum post for not just you, but also for the discord mods. The reason being that as is our position between critiques and mods, we are tasked with overpowering you with words, so as you have tasked yourself against us. Our objective here is to understand your concerns and reassure you that we have the same goal for the discord. So, would those invoking involvement in the other side of this also explain their objectives here honestly and clearly? Our goal is to make a good discord server. How about you?

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22 minutes ago, DarkHorizon said:

Now reading your mentioned post, correct me if I'm wrong but you appear not to agree with the idea of tieing a discord account to a DU community/forum account?  

No - just Not the point. And I won't repeat it a fourth time.

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21 hours ago, Lethys said:

- i won't use any program made by anyone from this community on the same pc where I play DU

- I won't use bots/programs/software from Community members where any Information about my acc is used. This might change with an appropriate API from NQ where I can explicitly state what to share and what not

10 hours ago, Lethys said:

Idk, but using a selfmade Community tool for that Kind of official work (to monitor and ultimately punish ppl) for a company isn't really a good idea imho

4 hours ago, Lethys said:

If it's fine for you that a bot written by someone else than NQ monitors

Alright then can I safely deduce the issues lies behind the person who created it then?

 

Am I getting warmer or colder? 

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10 hours ago, Lethys said:

That you can't get in without the bot isn't what i said. The bot is used to monitor NDA breaches and easily identifies ppl behind it. Idk, but using a selfmade Community tool for that Kind of official work (to monitor and ultimately punish ppl) for a company isn't really a good idea imho

No it’s not it’s allows people into the nda channel that’s it

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31 minutes ago, DarkHorizon said:

Am I getting warmer or colder

Warmer. Cause that's NOT "tieing a discord account to a DU community/forum account?  " Like you suggested.

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3 hours ago, Lethys said:

Perhaps the wording was a bit off there. I know that the bot doesn't do that.....yet.

Nonetheless it's database is directly linked to your official acc and your discord id. Which would be fine for me If it's done by NQ. It's not done that way now, and imho it's not the job of a tool from the community to link (and possibly further down the Road identify) users. That's NQs job, as is the enforcement of the NDA. 

 

And yes, I won't use it. That's my descicion. And afaik I'm still allowed to voice my opinion even though it's possibly against holy yama. Yes i couldn't resist. Sue me :P

And don't forget this one too. I fucked up with Posting there xD

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10 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Warmer. Cause that's NOT "tieing a discord account to a DU community/forum account?  " Like you suggested.

Great, I'll let Yama speak for himself.

 

While it's impossible for me to help in this particular regard, I'm more than happy to help others with their concerns about the bot in the meantime.

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I honestly don't know what else I could add to this topic other than making a video describing every line of the bot source code one by one. 

 

The same thing is being rehashed over and over here to the point where it's obvious that no matter what is said that people are going to take issue with it. 

 

If you want links to the source code:

 

Otherwise, I really don't know what else I can add to this conversation. I've explained what the bot does, I've explained why it does it, there's simply nothing else for me to cover.

 

The bot has been working for quite some time now and nobody ever complained about it before, it's just that when Discord went official that people started to freak out about it. It's not new, it's been serving its purpose quite well. 

 

If you want NQ to run it, I'm not sure what that is going to change because the bot is still going to be running off the same source code that I wrote, you're effectively just asking NQ to put even more work on themselves to support it going forward. I'm sure they'd do it if enough people demanded it, but it really wouldn't change much other than who owns the server the container runs on.

 

As for the bot collecting data, the bot doesn't collect anything that you don't specifically allow it to. It's not going to go automatically scraping user accounts on Discord, you have to manually run the command and specifically give it your forum profile to gather your backer status (or pre-alpha status if you have that disabled). Anyone can disable their backer public status, the only thing the bot needs to verify is whether or not you have pre-alpha status, which is something that you can't edit on your profile. 

 

The bot isn't just scraping the forums randomly looking for accounts to link up, you have to manually run the verification process, by which you implicitly agree to the collection of your publicly available information in the first place. 

 

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5 hours ago, Lethys said:

Perhaps the wording was a bit off there. I know that the bot doesn't do that.....yet.

Nonetheless it's database is directly linked to your official acc and your discord id. Which would be fine for me If it's done by NQ. It's not done that way now, and imho it's not the job of a tool from the community to link (and possibly further down the Road identify) users. That's NQs job, as is the enforcement of the NDA. 

 

And yes, I won't use it. That's my descicion. And afaik I'm still allowed to voice my opinion even though it's possibly against holy yama. Yes i couldn't resist. Sue me :P

 

nq might take over the bot anyways. and honestly nq could just pay yama for it

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Well, the way I see it is that it's NQ's game, NQ's data, NQ's website, and now it's NQ's discord.   They should feel free to purchase/use any scripts that they find that they feel necessary to complete their job.  If they find one that is free to serve some time-saving purpose, even better.  More money for the game itself.  They do not need permission to use - or to even tell us - what programming is behind everything they use. 

 

For all we know this very site and forum itself could be using open source that someone else coded.  They might even be DU players too. (gasp!)  IMO it's just not smart to re-create the wheel.  Almost everything I use for my own stuff and for my clients is open source. Lord only knows who originally coded it.  But if something is wrong with it, the community will darn well make it known, asap.  It's the proprietary stuff that no one ever gets to see that should cause issues (if you must have issues, that is.)

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16 hours ago, DarkHorizon said:

 

The bot has been the defacto standard for the entire community for a long time now, even the members of NovaQuark that we see from time to time have gone through the process without a hitch so now it really just begs the question of why the second standard for which I feel like I answered in the second paragraph and will refer to such.

 

Only because there's not been any other choice since it was implemented. As i said in the exchange i had asked for manual confirmation WHICH WAS how it was done prior and is still done on many discords.

 

The concern about human error is to me a poor argument for lack of engagement, MUST we go by automated functions only? I remain sceptic. Also i don't believe it would create a "second class of privileged users" because it is just an arbitrary label.

16 hours ago, MasteredRed said:

However we will be fine with you now personally replacing the bot for authentication purposes. We'll require you to take it as a full time job with no pay. Also, you are responsible if you make a mistake, accidentally forget who was authed, fail to account for bans, or so on so forth.

This is honestly just a argument of concern and is not that realistic. Who took responsibility or worked full time prior to the existance of the bot? I don't know exactly Red what you are trying to say here. Please expand and enlighten me on what the exact point with this comment is, i am of course willfully listening.

10 hours ago, Dhara said:

Well, the way I see it is that it's NQ's game, NQ's data, NQ's website, and now it's NQ's discord.   They should feel free to purchase/use any scripts that they find that they feel necessary to complete their job.  If they find one that is free to serve some time-saving purpose, even better.  More money for the game itself.  They do not need permission to use - or to even tell us - what programming is behind everything they use. 

Sure, they can do that, but then they should not be surprised when some people have scepticism. By no means should people get told off, locked out or shunned (which i am not saying they are but it can easily happen) for questioning.

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@Zamarus i thought NQ have answer your question about bot already ?!

It does nothing than allow people with backer to join NDA channel. And argument ''Human error is a poor reason'' for automatic process is another poor argument as well to have manual process.

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19 minutes ago, ShioriStein said:

@Zamarus i thought NQ have answer your question about bot already ?!

It does nothing than allow people with backer to join NDA channel. And argument ''Human error is a poor reason'' for automatic process is another poor argument as well to have manual process.

They answered the question but i am not talking to NQ now am i? I was not even asking any questions demanding answers, i'm literally just giving my opinion, which most of my comment actually says i am and wish for others to get to.

 

Whether NQ answered or not is not gonna magically delete peoples opinions

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This thread was to be questions about the discord on a whole, instead it has become nothing but people attacking the bot and other trying to clarify/defend its use. NQ has made its stance known, i don't understand why this thread has gone 2 pages over this.

It is the same arguments over and over again. If you don't like the bot because you are paranoid/skeptic/or personal issues with it being made by a community member that is fine. You are entitled to your opinion.

 

However, might i suggest that if you are only going to continue talking about the bot then maybe take it to a different thread and let this thread get back to the purpose it was meant for. 

 

 

 

TL;DR: if you don't like the bot or discord....don't use them and move on.

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28 minutes ago, Zamarus said:

They answered the question but i am not talking to NQ now am i? I was not even asking any questions demanding answers, i'm literally just giving my opinion, which most of my comment actually says i am and wish for others to get to.

Well sorry seem like I misread and misunderstood your word. I dont have any problem with your Opinion as well.

 

But this, i will still keep it for you.

47 minutes ago, ShioriStein said:

argument ''Human error is a poor reason'' for automatic process is another poor argument as well to have manual process.

You didnt say a word about "why i PARANOID(hate,sceptic,...) about this bot so we must/should have a manual process". Something you used to do before dont necessary mean it have to be there now.

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5 minutes ago, The_War_Doctor said:

However, might i suggest that if you are only going to continue talking about the bot then maybe take it to a different thread and let this thread get back to the purpose it was meant for. 

I disagree:

" Feel free to give your feedback (and remaing concerns if you have some) in this thread after reading the Official Discord FAQ there. "

 

It's indeed everyones choice if he uses it or not - some might not want to fill out forms to apply for an org and others just don't want to use a bot to get into channels which could be done manually too. If you don't want it, then don't use it - and that's fine. My points still stand though - it changes everything for me if NQ (and only them) have access to the bot/database.

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6 hours ago, Zamarus said:

This is honestly just a argument of concern and is not that realistic. Who took responsibility or worked full time prior to the existance of the bot? I don't know exactly Red what you are trying to say here. Please expand and enlighten me on what the exact point with this comment is, i am of course willfully listening. 

To respond directly to this, here is the purpose that example went to serve.

 

The answer is no one took full time responsibility. However the time prior was also before the server hit 2,000 members. Thus, my example obviously an over-exaggerated case of what it would now take to replace the said bot to the full extent that it is used.

 

 

Now, to address the rest of what's been said thus far.

 

If you want to argue that you're running unspecified code when you initiate the auth process, then I'm sorry but you have a little problem going for you when you run DU. I can almost guarantee you that NQ has used at least one open source project in the making of DU. Yet NQ had vetted and checked that code to use it in DU. What leads you to think that they have become this inept at their job in that regards to that.

 

Don't get me wrong. I have particular bones to pick on some other regards however this is not one. You are vilainifying either yamamushi, the bot, or the discord staff. However don't forget that NQ is involved on this as they have rendered their judgement. We have answered your questions. If need be, I would give you a complete 10 page paper on how the bot functions, but honestly its so dang simple that I couldn't write that much on it.

 

Now, the reason I'm being so thorough here is that I understand not trusting software. Just because you don't like who made the software does not mean that the software is bad. Just because yamamushi made the bot does bot mean that the code is any different from how NQ would have made it. Just because a company didnt make the bot doesn't mean the code now is evil. Actually, it's probably safer because there was no deadline on it as in a company and because he as a programmer wanted to do it.

 

Now for the love of anything good, can we get onto something else? I wanted to be asked hard hitting questions about what makes me qualified or why do I love the community.

 

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18 hours ago, Dhara said:

Well, the way I see it is that it's NQ's game, NQ's data, NQ's website, and now it's NQ's discord.   

While I disagree withe the paranoia regarding this. It is not NQ's data under EU law. It is actually ours. NQ can use the data under GPDR regulations but does not own it, pretty much like you do not own a copy of the DU client, you are licensed to use what is owned by NQ under the conditions they set.

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Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

Reading this topic and the way the conversations are going, it seems that the subject regarding the "authentication process" the bot uses on the Official Discord, has been well explained, both by those having concerns and those running the operations in the server, several times.

 

However, it seems so though the last few comments have no longer been about giving feedback but just out right refuting everything is said. Both, by those having concerns and those running the operations in the server. (Perhaps personal disputes between individuals is the issue here) 

 

I would like to suggest that, if any further concerns are brought up, keep all personal dilemmas between users (those having concerns and those running the operations) out and everything is conversed in a calm and professional manner.

 

As well as, keep in topic and do not derail it by posting unnecessary comments that would come across as unnecessary.

 

As this is now an official lane of communication from Novaquark, please also await their decisions and communications regarding any further concerns you may have about the operations of the server.

 

 

Best Regards,

Meldrik

Edited by Mod-Meldrik

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