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When the NDA drops then there won't really be a need to authenticate with it, we can close (or archive) the NDA channels, and nobody will have to use it. If they want to get backer roles for cosmetic purposes they'll still be able to, but otherwise, there won't be a need for it. 

 

As for the data, that is going to stay in the database because it is what ties backer roles to users. Even for non-NDA purposes, such as Iron / Bronze / etc backers, or supporter pack purchasers (non-patron packs), or ATV.

 

The database stores:

  • Discord user ID
  • Forum profile link
  • Backer Status (Gold/Silver/Ruby/Whatever)
  • ATV member (true or false)
  • Pre-Alpha Access (true or false)
  • Validated successfully (true or false) - This is used to track whether a user has completed the auth process or not

 

When the API becomes available, I will adjust the database to only keep the data that the API provides.

 

You don't need to have your backer status made public to be validated either, as many didn't want to have to do that. The forums will show if you have pre-alpha access without needing to display what backer level you have. There are many in Discord who have access to the NDA channels while also hiding their backer level.

 

The bot is used for other things besides authentication, it provides utilities for NDA members which will be useful after the NDA drops too, it provides a live forum feed, a Reddit feed, a news feed for Dual Universe content (Youtube, Twitter, DevBlog, etc), it provides reactions (the Nyzaltar, Nomad, JC, etc reactions), it provides a server status utility and many more things. 

 

I don't see a good reason to remove it completely when the NDA drops. 

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When NDA drops I would hope and expect those who have access now will retain access to the relevant channels as there is a good bit of information there which will remain valid and can be published/used once NDA drops. 

 

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9 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

When NDA drops I would hope and expect those who have access now will retain access to the relevant channels as there is a good bit of information there which will remain valid and can be published/used once NDA drops. 

 

 

Of course, that is always a possibility, we have to take that into account as well. It would mean losing a lot of content to just remove the channels.

 

Plus what's under NDA is always going to be under NDA.

 

As long as nobody gets too upset about the view that it's a special club or anything I don't see why we'd need to remove it completely. 

 

We need to clarify from NQ whether Alpha members should have access to those channels or not as well, but will likely happen is a shuffling of channel names for consistency. 

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I also want to clarify, there are things that I (and others on the Discord Staff) have been aware of in the works that we simply aren't allowed to discuss. Ie, for the Discord server, the process of making it official and handing it over to NQ has been going on for several months, it wasn't an overnight quick decision by any means. We couldn't publicly announce that for many reasons.

 

There were many questions about the auth process that I could have answered with "Well an NQ API is in the works" to assuage some fears, but I didn't want to break any confidentiality by saying that either.

 

I know there are many in the community that really don't like me at all, but I would not be where I am in my career if I made a habit of collecting data for illicit purposes or breaking confidentiality agreements openly. I'm never going to win those people over, but at least I can try to be as transparent as possible to the rest of you to show that I'm acting in good faith here with my contributions. 

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21 minutes ago, yamamushi said:

 

Plus what's under NDA is always going to be under NDA.

 

 

We both know there is stuff in the NDA forums that will be fine to use and show once NDA lifts, Lua code for one. A blanket statement like the quote would not hold for that reason. But we're getting off track here.

 

9 minutes ago, yamamushi said:

I know there are many in the community that really don't like me at all

 

Makes two of us but I'm pretty sure that is because some can't separate opinion and well meant but sometimes maybe harsh words from personal feelings. I would not know why I would not like you at all as you seem to be an enthusiast who gives way to much of his time away doing what you hopefully enjoy doing.. ;) For what it's worth I certainly appreciate the work you put into all this as I know the amount of work and time it takes all too well. My feelings on the bot(s) do not in any way relate to any of that.

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It may be difficult to add shady things to the bot and it may be reviewed by NQ before the Update (or whatever wird's right Here) of the bot.

 

If Eve thaughte anything (and I see no reason to change that even though many will find that silly and or paranoid) then

- i won't use any program made by anyone from this community on the same pc where I play DU

- I won't use bots/programs/software from Community members where any Information about my acc is used. This might change with an appropriate API from NQ where I can explicitly state what to share and what not

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The information the bot gathers is already public on your profile, you are already sharing all of it, and there is even more info on your public profile available that the bot isn't gathering. 

 

You don't need to share any of it, you can disable displaying your backer role even and the auth will still work.

 

Using the auth is not a requirement to use Discord, it's a requirement to use the NDA channels. If you don't want to participate in them, nobody is making you.

 

The irony here is that there are probably services already collecting and aggregating yours and everyone else's profile information and aren't being transparent about it at all.

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41 minutes ago, yamamushi said:

I know there are many in the community that really don't like me at all, 

 

Hey, I wouldnt sat I dont like you at all, I only despise 98% of you. 

 

Glad to see while I've been gone you've still been here as dedicated as always. Great work. 

Now if only people use discord for actual voice coms. I get lonely talking to myself. 

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Oh there are tools, I know two. It's still grey area to NQ, but won't be allowed/overlooked for long imho. Like with any such thing, it might be against the rules at some point to do so. So I don't see a point in giving anyone my data to collect for free. If they do it, pls break rules.

 

Especially the part with the NDA channels makes no sense whatsoever. Call me insane, but using a community made tool to enforce the NDA of a company is..... Well.... not good. To put it lightly

 

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1 hour ago, Lethys said:

Oh there are tools, I know two. It's still grey area to NQ, but won't be allowed/overlooked for long imho. Like with any such thing, it might be against the rules at some point to do so. So I don't see a point in giving anyone my data to collect for free. If they do it, pls break rules.

 

Especially the part with the NDA channels makes no sense whatsoever. Call me insane, but using a community made tool to enforce the NDA of a company is..... Well.... not good. To put it lightly

 

i mean its pretty much impossible to get into the nda channels without that tool . and to be honest Nq could buy the tool offen him and guess what its there tool now.

companys buy game dev tools all the time whats the diffrence here yama doesnt own a company that makes the tools?

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2 hours ago, Lethys said:

 So I don't see a point in giving anyone my data to collect for free. 

What ad blocking lists do you use, I want them, they must be very thorough. Do you have a raspberry pi or something similar setup? I could use some help in my own set up and I think you're the one to turn to.

 

Jokes aside, the future will be rough if that quote is anything to go by once facial recognition in cameras starts showing adverts on the store windows as you pass by.

 

I'm tempted to make a separate thread specifically on that issue, however, I think it just needlessly belabors the point. What is it about sharing such information that has everyone up in arms? If what Yama has listed about what information is collected is true, I'm not understanding the fuss so provide me with some clarity please.

 

What can I do with your (Lethys in this case)... 

Discord user ID: #4294 / 485745681240424449

Forum profile link: https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/profile/2114-lethys/

Backer Status: Private

ATV membership: True

Pre-Alpha Access: True

Validation success: N/A

 

And just for the hell of it, here's my info:

Discord user ID: #2530 / 489186915871096834

Forum profile link: https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/profile/2902-darkhorizon/

Backer Status: Ruby  😀

ATV membership: False

Pre-Alpha Access: True

Validation success: True


I understand Yama to be pretty experienced with what he does, but I don't think he'd beable to harvest any personally identifiable information. If that were the case, however, then I'd be calling NQ and their payment processors into question and I'd most likely cast Dual Universe in a questionable light.

 

As far as I'm concerned the authentication bot is under NQ's scrutiny now and since the discord is official, maybe Yama isn't the right person to be targeting anymore aside from the fact that he's its creator (or so I'm led to believe). NQ however stands to loose a lot more if word got out that someone was stealing players data and using it nefariously so I can only assume that NQ had inspected every single piece of that bot and found nothing of concern.

 

Again, everything about it is public, make of it what you will since participation is not mandatory. Also, this isn't me taking sides, I don't really care for the bot personally, I just want to understand peoples concerns.

 

15 minutes ago, yamisniper said:

i mean its pretty much impossible to get into the nda channels without that tool . and to be honest Nq could buy the tool offen him and guess what its there tool now.

companys buy game dev tools all the time whats the diffrence here yama doesnt own a company that makes the tools?

I don't want to say in this case that the creator is the problem, but rather that Yama simply isn't from NQ.

 

The thing is, Yama really, really wants a job with NQ. If he were to have gotten a job, what then? If he gives up all creative and ownership rights to the bot to NQ, what then?

Edited by DarkHorizon
clarified my 'not taking sides'

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Its funny at least to think that the majority of people give away more personal information on things like Facebook and Twitter than this bot collects. Come on, this bot uses publicly available data, there is literally NO argument to be had that they are getting any private information with the bot. If you do not believe those facts, look at the source code it, as long as you can read and understand the coding, you can see that there is nothing malicious.

 

Anything publicly available is free game to scrapers and data gatherers anyway. What is the difference between a bot gathering the data automatically and a user 'googling' the same information on you. The only difference is one is automated and does not require a human presence, and the other does. 

 

Its not that big of a deal, hence there is no reason to make one out of it.

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5 hours ago, DarkHorizon said:

The thing is, Yama really, really wants a job with NQ. If he were to have gotten a job, what then? If he gives up all creative and ownership rights to the bot to NQ, what then?

I don't know how I feel about this. He'll be a husk of his former self, a corporate slave more or less.

Can't say anything fun (as in controversial or harmless poking).

Then again, he probably wants a job with NQ.

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9 hours ago, Lethys said:

If Eve thaughte anything (and I see no reason to change that even though many will find that silly and or paranoid)

Yes EVE is game that create paranoia and it's OK if paranoia stays in game but if it's moving beyond game to real life it's just sick. Actualy paranoia is why I stoped playing EVE(if someone shoot me or steal my ISK it's not a big deal, it's just a game). 

 

I hope that in DU we woun't have same paranoia level.


And back to main subject I think that BOT is greate thing, and if community member dedicate his private time to create something that helps community and game devs thats also greate. We need more so dedicated peoples.

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8 hours ago, yamisniper said:

i mean its pretty much impossible to get into the nda channels without that tool . and to be honest Nq could buy the tool offen him and guess what its there tool now.

companys buy game dev tools all the time whats the diffrence here yama doesnt own a company that makes the tools?

That you can't get in without the bot isn't what i said. The bot is used to monitor NDA breaches and easily identifies ppl behind it. Idk, but using a selfmade Community tool for that Kind of official work (to monitor and ultimately punish ppl) for a company isn't really a good idea imho

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7 hours ago, DarkHorizon said:

What can I do with your (Lethys in this case)..

Nothing. And that never was the point.

 

Again. If someone wants my data, please Go ahead and collect it. Idc. But I don't give it to you in the first place. At some point scraping will be deemed illegal and then it's just that: you acquired my data illegally. If I give it to you now (via the bot), it's my fault that you have it.

 

 But that's not even the main point. See above - that's what I despise

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1 hour ago, Lethys said:

But I don't give it to you in the first place.

If your data is publicly accesible then you have gave them and colecting them by person or automaticly is 100% legal.

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4 hours ago, Lethys said:

That you can't get in without the bot isn't what i said. The bot is used to monitor NDA breaches and easily identifies ppl behind it.

Actually it identifies accounts behind it, not the person owning the account. The bot has no information regarding who I am in RL.

 

Frankly, for the purpose of identifying accounts and their eligibility to access NDA forums of the DU Discord I really see no issue here at all. It is where this mechanism extends its control to other Discord servers/channels through the separate 'public' bot that I see an issue.

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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

Frankly, for the purpose of identifying accounts and their eligibility to access NDA forums of the DU Discord I really see no issue here at all

If it's fine for you that a bot written by someone else than NQ monitors and identifies accs which broke the NDA on the official Du discord run by NQ then that's great. For me it's an issue

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1 hour ago, Lethys said:

If it's fine for you that a bot written by someone else than NQ monitors and identifies accs which broke the NDA on the official Du discord run by NQ then that's great. For me it's an issue

 

I'm not sure if this is just being argued now for the sake of being argued or what, but, this not how the bot works, if fact it's 100% impossible for the bot to do this. I mean the code is all public, it's just a matter of taking some time to actually read it to realize the bot does not monitor NDA breaches, but only checks the forum's profile for the proper tags to grant a Discord account access to those channels...

 

Monitoring NDA breaches is still left at the moderators expanse. Something that was done even before the Discord was Official. Users breaking NDA were removed and reported to NQ. Not via the bot but via moderators actually reading the channels themselves. 

 

To think that the bot is used for monitoring breaches just baffles me.

 

But a las. As we've mentioned a million times. Using the linking process the bot provides is not a requirement to use the Discord itself. It only allows users the ability to use the NDA channels in a secure way... And get this... If and ONLY IF they want to use those channels. If you want to use those channels you must prove to the bot that you have proper access. Otherwise, don't. Simple.

 

 

Comrade

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