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Excavy

Can we get space weed?

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4 hours ago, FireSoul said:

Okay? 

Cmon, don't act like it wouldn't be cool to have space cartels have huge battles over space weed.

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Could you please explain the difference between space weed and normal weed?

Just to clarify we're talking about drugs not weed as in " A wild plant growing where it is not wanted and in competition with cultivated plants. " right?

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44 minutes ago, mefsh said:

Could you please explain the difference between space weed and normal weed?

Just to clarify we're talking about drugs not weed as in " A wild plant growing where it is not wanted and in competition with cultivated plants. " right?

Well, space weed is almost exactly the same as the normal weed we grow on Earth, except its in space.

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You mention cartels, indicating that being illegal (to me anyway).

 

I wonder if many "player factions"  (specifically player states and comparable ones) will even outlaw or forbid such things if they end up in-game.

 

Some will outlaw it due to ideology or mentality, some will not care and be indifferent, others will actively market it.

 

"Can't get X there? Well you can get it here!"

 

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13 hours ago, Warden said:

You mention cartels, indicating that being illegal (to me anyway).

 

I wonder if many "player factions"  (specifically player states and comparable ones) will even outlaw or forbid such things if they end up in-game.

 

Some will outlaw it due to ideology or mentality, some will not care and be indifferent, others will actively market it.

 

"Can't get X there? Well you can get it here!"

 

I think depending on the effects of it and how popular it is, some organizations may choose to ban it.

Imagine if there's a drug that blurs your vision and all of your pilots decide to get high. Then an enemy organization attacks and all your pilots are half blind. Like I said, depending on the effects and popularity, it may or may not cause problems within an organization.

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The title is kind of silly, but it is a legitimate question. Any item that is perceived to be "non-civilian" could have an impact on how trade evolves in the game, and which organizations players choose to join. Based on one's wants and needs, trade will be an important factor in a player's choice of organization. Some may be drawn to an organization of outlaws because of the free trade of hard to obtain items, while some may want a stable trade system that comes from a rigidly structured organization.   

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The only "smuggling of illegal goods" I've ever seen in MMO's has been smuggling banned items past the NPC police.

 

The "drugs" in MMO's are usually desired and used by all players, because the downsides associated with them are mostly trivial by design, but the buffs are significant.

 

In DU there are no NPC's, so "smuggling" will be no different to any other retail supply activity...

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I mostly think that unless "drugs" or certain chemical substances really bring downsides that could endanger other players, there won't be rigorous banning of said things.

 

Most player factions and states likely won't ban a damn thing. My prediction is you'll see more rigid enforcement or banning of certain actions players can or cannot do - aka how to behave - than objects being banned. Most who opt for bans will likely do so for "fluff" reasons. For RP, immersive or ideological reasons. You could think it could attract players to "outlaws", but would there even be a need for "outlaws" if you can just go to another (player) state and freely obtain those things in malls, shopping areas, etc? Where their security or police forces might stop you for a vehicle check to see if it adheres to certain requirements, where they might look in the trunk or storage and not give any damn about "space weed"?

 

You could probably stand in the streets (or corridors) and consume that visibly (assuming there is animations for this, whether short or longer) like eating a snack or smoking a cigar (inb4 "Non-smoking area").

 

In short, anything is possible in that regard, the rest would depend on the people / player factions, their stance on it and how exactly such narcotics would work.

 

People going for that "smuggler vibe" wanting to be a "criminal" who sells or smuggles that just for the heck of it might see huge disappointment if it doesn't end up banned or outlawed in many areas. But then again you could look for this in exactly those areas where the people in power decide to outlaw it. I'd only ever consider doing that if for some reason this is outlawed in some other area or faction, but retains a certain demand, implying increased prices. Then it's a risk and profit calculation. But ironically you could have your production plans visibly in other areas where it's not outlawed. Heck you could plaster big signs on your 'factory' while you can sell it there and sell it at a higher price in outlawed areas, if people 'living' or working there do not or cannot get into territories where usage is allowed or not restricted much.

 

I, for one, was never fond of the whole vibe around (space) drugs and the usage or selling of those in many games, and I don't take any 'potentially questionable' in reality. You could say I'm generally not really interested in gameplay going into that direction and ironically I am organizing a police project for a notable community city project. While you could now think I'm opposed, on the other hand I say that I understand economic aspects behind it (and it's only a game) and in addition, if said city project management doesn't outlaw any substances, then I say: Less work for the 'cops' involved!

 

You have to consider another aspect: Any player nation outlawing this and really declaring a 'war on (space) drugs' has a higher pressure to keep their areas clean. A certain black market could grow. You'll open up a certain "homefront" in a way, potentially, if it becomes a big issue. That can be fun and part of emergent gameplay, but at the same time you need to spend resources on enforcing that. Other player nations who do not outlaw this or that do not get to have that problem and can spend resources and time on other things. Heck they could probably benefit from the taxes, if they can be applied, if it's really a sought-out substance.

 

But before I write more for now, I guess we'll have to wait and see. Time will tell. I'd generally find such 'mechanics' interesting to have potentially questionable substances that players just have to deal with somehow.

 

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15 hours ago, NanoDot said:

The only "smuggling of illegal goods" I've ever seen in MMO's has been smuggling banned items past the NPC police.

 

The "drugs" in MMO's are usually desired and used by all players, because the downsides associated with them are mostly trivial by design, but the buffs are significant.

 

In DU there are no NPC's, so "smuggling" will be no different to any other retail supply activity...

I really hope that they balance certain items to have significant downsides as well as buffs to account for the lack of NPCs. Besides drugs, I think weapon smuggling will still be very profitable. Once organizations get bigger and bigger, they will inevitably expand into areas where PvP is active. I don't know if every city would feel comfortable allowing all their citizens to possibly have a weapon capable of mowing down people in the street. Even if it is a PvP active area, the organization will want their cities to have some sense of safety associated with them.

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6 hours ago, Excavy said:

Once organizations get bigger and bigger, they will inevitably expand into areas where PvP is active.

PVP is active in 95% of DU's game world. The official safezones only encompass a relatively tiny area. 

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2 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

PVP is active in 95% of DU's game world. The official safezones only encompass a relatively tiny area. 

Yes, that is my point. Although organizations will try to claim safezones first, they will run out of space, necessitating rules surrounding PvP. The most secure way of preventing PvP inside a PvP zone is to restrict weapons. This will spawn black markets and cartels who deal in those weapons.

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Weapon system restrictions or mechanics are - at least to me - far future talk. Uncertain. Shaky. Speculation?

 

Being able to ban / outlaw weapon systems (or insert space weed here) and manually enforcing that only becomes viable if players have the possibility of stopping or checking the inventory of other players, or potentially even access it under specific circumstances (on their territory, etc).

 

I just don't see this happen like in the game Armed Assault 3 where various online communities have "life mods" simulating life with civilians, police, criminals, etc. There, police can actually stop you, taze you (or shoot you), access your car trunk, access your inventory by searching you, and remove objects. There, all the various smuggling and crime becomes viable.

 

It does not in an MMORPG-like game with restricted possibility in that regard. How will it later really look like? I think we all don't know and can only assume.

 

I find this vital to mention so that perhaps some players or groups don't start wildly creating laws and protocols on how to enforce X when it might not even become possible, resulting in moderate or a lot of work for nothing.

 

It's more likely that certain things can just be banned or restricted via the territory control system. Most notably, usage of weapons. Could mean that players still are able to enter your territory with weapons but they just can't use them. They might also have a bunch of certain substances on them but you could never tell or really do much about it.

 

But then again that is also speculation on my part. In short, best not to hold your breath.

 

Time will tell.

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3 minutes ago, Warden said:

Being able to ban / outlaw weapon systems (or insert space weed here) and manually enforcing that only becomes viable if players have the possibility of stopping or checking the inventory of other players, or potentially even access it under specific circumstances (on their territory, etc).

That is true. Perhaps only restricting the trade and storage of certain items will be able to be enforced realistically.

This of course is all speculation. Maybe in there will be some way to take a person's inventory without killing them, allowing for personal searches.

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25 minutes ago, Excavy said:

This of course is all speculation. Maybe in there will be some way to take a person's inventory without killing them, allowing for personal searches.

Hello trolls, scammers, thieves and awoxers - it's completely legal and EASY to take everything from random players.

 

Bad idea. Even if you could only take weapons

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5 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Hello trolls, scammers, thieves and awoxers - it's completely legal and EASY to take everything from random players.

 

Bad idea. Even if you could only take weapons

I don't mean in an easy way, I mean something along the lines on incapacitating or binding them. It shouldn't be left to a button press, but to an item with a cast time and animation.  

 

Also I think most organizations wouldn't have stealing be legal.

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1 hour ago, Excavy said:

I don't mean in an easy way, I mean something along the lines on incapacitating or binding them. It shouldn't be left to a button press, but to an item with a cast time and animation.  

 

Also I think most organizations wouldn't have stealing be legal.

Ah, so even worse lol. Bind and incapacitate ppl thus griefing them because they're denied to play. 

 

In PvP there's np with incapping someone because he chose to participate thus knowing that can happen. But as a Police/controlling mechanic ppl can just grief everyone and newbros will just leave the game again after such experience.

 

As warden said already, time will tell. DU is a MMO environment and as such banning/restricting stuff is up to players. I always compare it to Eve: some guys took space in FFA PvP nullsec and they let everyone in as long as they don't attack anyone else. You can Go there and earn money, do missions whatever. But you're Not allowed to fly or bring capital ships in there, those are restricted there because you could do much harm.

 

Same goes for Du imho. Orgs/empires/cities might just ban certain ship types (large ships from 50m Up), weapon elements (medium and large 6 barrel turbolasers) and handguns (autoloaders and shotguns). How to enforce that? Have ppl work for you who scout and spot such things. It works in eve, so it'll work in Du too. No need for inventory access - that would only destroy the immersion or the "sense of danger". Does he have such a gun on him? Is He known for doing that? Let's follow him around and see what He does. Let's gather intel on that guy, ask our spies about him and decide what to do. That's enganging gameplay and not simply "oh, you're new. Let me see your inventory because I work for the police. Hmmm, banned guns. Off you Go, you can't enter". That would be boring

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1 minute ago, Lethys said:

In PvP there's np with incapping someone because he chose to participate thus knowing that can happen. But as a Police/controlling mechanic ppl can just grief everyone and newbros will just leave the game again after such experience.

I assumed we were both talking about PvP zones. Even if you are in a city, the risk of being in a PvP zone should always be accounted for. If you are a person who doesn't want to be robbed or kidnapped or have police take you into custody, then it doesn't sound like a PvP zone is right for you. There is always supposed to be a sense of risk in everything that you do.


I'm not saying somebody should be able to incapacitate you long range snipe mode. Things like that have to be balanced, and the idea on an incapacitate should be very hard to pull off. You should have to sneak up on them, if you're in a city make sure nobody else sees you, get close enough to be able to perform the action, have an escape route. Its not like the other player has no risk and can just troll you.

 

9 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Same goes for Du imho. Orgs/empires/cities might just ban certain ship types (large ships from 50m Up), weapon elements (medium and large 6 barrel turbolasers) and handguns (autoloaders and shotguns). How to enforce that? Have ppl work for you who scout and spot such things. It works in eve, so it'll work in Du too. No need for inventory access - that would only destroy the immersion or the "sense of danger". Dies He have such a gun in him? Is He known for doing that? Let's follow him around and see what He does. Let's father intel in that guy, ask our spies about him and decide what to do. That's enganging gameplay and not simply "oh, you're new. Let me see your inventory because I work for the police. Hmmm, banned guns. Off you Go, you can't enter". That would be boring

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, I think DU sets out to be more allowing in the ways you handle things in game. Organizations that have their police randomly search people will have bad reputations. An organization should go through the extra steps to scout people and make informed arrests, because it will make them reputable. The idea of DU to me is to have social relations impact the game-play more than any other game. You seem to assume that if you allow people to do something, that they will automatically do it. I think DU is set up to be much more complex than that, and make your decisions yours and purposeful instead of restrictive to one way to go about something. Players should have the opportunity to approach a situation in as many ways as possible. When they are given choices, they will be able to learn what way they want to tackle problems. This is what creates diversity in a game. I don't want to walk into a city and have the Police might as well be NPCs because they all go about themselves in the same way as anywhere else.

In the end, if I'm stupid enough to go into an authoritative state, I damn better be captured, bound, stripped, and tortured. I don't care about trolling, because if I'm stupid enough to be trolled, then I deserve it. What's fun about games like this for me is learning how to improve, not being coddled because it would be "not fun". That's what the safe areas are for, for people who legitimately don't have fun in PvP areas. I don't see it as beneficial to restrict your options in PvP simply to draw more people into PvP. 

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