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MaximusFireFight

.Penalty Of Death.Scaling Ideas.

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I am a massive fan of the idea of this game, and I wanted to give some ideas to the devs on how dying could work out. Think of it like a scale of 1 to 10.

 

1: Death had no penalties and is meaningless. When you die, you do not lose any stats or resources, etc.

2: Death has microscopic effects. Perhaps a very small and short penalty on tasks such as combat, mining, etc.

3: Now we could consider spawn delays, and maybe inventory losses. Very small and short lasting negative effects. No stats loss.

4: By now, death might make a player hesitate before putting themselves on the line.

5: Spawn delay perhaps? 50% inventory loss, lasting negative effects.

6: Complete inventory loss, stat penalty.

7: Long spawn delay, no recovery of an items. demoting perhaps. Permanent stat loss.

8: Loss of any armor or skins on character at death, long delay in spawn. Loss of any ships that were destroyed.

9: Loss of all items, ships, stats, and other set ups.

10: Player's character wiped. They will have to start all over and completely lose all bases and ships. 

 

I hope you consider one of the higher ones. This is a massive game with loads of possibilities. You want death to count, you have to make it important to make the game more immersive and realistic. People have to strategist and think, and not be hot headed and kill everyone in sight. Now is number 10 too far? Most of you would probably think so, but in a game of this scale and this much possibility, you have to make death count so that some random user does not decided to kill just to have fun, everything has to be a risk, just like in real life. You don't see people everyday running around killing others...because there are consequences. You have to turn reality into the game for it to work better as a community. And of course, this is all purely my opinion, I am not saying this is fact and sealed. While the part about reality is slightly true, everything else is purely my thoughts on the matter.

 

Thank you for reading my ideas

Maximus

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English (deepl used)
 
Hello, Maximus,
a nice line-up and interesting idea. I would use all 10 types of death, depending on the number of players you killed yourself. It does not have to be 1:1, but can be 1:5 or proportional.
 
 
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German (original)
 
Hallo Maximus,
eine schöne Aufstellung und interessante Idee. Ich würde alle 10 Todesarten nutzen und zwar abhängig von der Anzahl der Spieler die man selbst getötet hat. Es muss ja nicht 1:1 sein, sondern kann 1:5 oder proportional sein.
 
 

 

Die Waldfee

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12 hours ago, MaximusFireFight said:

I hope you consider one of the higher ones. This is a massive game with loads of possibilities. You want death to count, you have to make it important to make the game more immersive and realistic. People have to strategist and think, and not be hot headed and kill everyone in sight. Now is number 10 too far? Most of you would probably think so, but in a game of this scale and this much possibility, you have to make death count so that some random user does not decided to kill just to have fun, everything has to be a risk, just like in real life. You don't see people everyday running around killing others...because there are consequences. You have to turn reality into the game for it to work better as a community. And of course, this is all purely my opinion, I am not saying this is fact and sealed. While the part about reality is slightly true, everything else is purely my thoughts on the matter.

right now they plan on doing the following:

- you have a resurection node (one permanent at the arkship, one "mobile" which you can place anywhere you want, possibly more when you learn skills)

- if you die, you respawn at the nearest node

- the node you place down needs energy to work - or fuel. So you have to make sure it's powered at all times

- when you get killed, a RNG determines which items are destroyed and which are dropped

- you respawn at the node, naked and with no inventory (money is safe and is not destroyed/dropped)

- you can travel to your body to pick up the items that were dropped (in case they're still there and haven't been looted already by someone else)

 

The only means to progress in DU is via skills (because it's like in EVE online: you train them via time - there's no "actively using a skill to improve it") and money (quanta). So imho a hit to skills only disencourages players to do PVP (as seen in EVE when flying T3).

And since it's a subscription based game, you have to invest RL money to play. Over time (months and years) you can train the skills of your character via the same system EVE uses - passive training with time. People would be really upset if they invest say 400€ over 33 months (12€/month to play for example) just to get killed by some random enemy and losing their char.

Heck, I wouldn't even bother leaving the safezone with my oldest char just to prevent death. And I would constantly make new alts to just kill random players outside the safezone to make them lose their char - just to make a point how BAD that system is.

 

Penalties to death are required and good - but those should be balanced. Otherwise you just kill pvp completely because noone wants to lose skills or their (old) character. People would just use alts and noob-chars to do pvp - which would be boring to see because they could only use basic stuff. 

 

I think losing your whole inventory, spawning at some RN (thus you need to get to the battlefield again), needing supplies to gear up, need a new ship to fly there again and possibly losing your other ship to the enemy is already enough as punishment.

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English (deepl used)
 
Well, if I understand Maximus correctly, it's about the balance between killing and being killed, hence the gradation.
My contribution to his idea is to set the level of loss at one's own death according to one's own playing style. That is, if I don't kill anyone, I don't lose anything if I get killed. Your fear of losing a valuable avatar is completely unfounded.
But whoever plays PVP has a profit if he kills PVP players but also a higher risk if he is killed.
It is an idea, of what has been proposed by NQ so far it can be read  and must not be presented as if nothing else is possible!
 
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German (original)

 

Nun, wenn ich Maximus richtig verstehe, geht es um das Gleichgewicht zwischen töten und getötet werden, daher die Abstufung.

Mein Beitrag zu seiner Idee ist es, die Stufe es Verlustes beim eignen Tod nach der eigenen Spielweise festzulegen. Das heißt, wenn ich niemanden töte verliere ich auch nichts, wenn ich getötet werde. Deine Befürchtung einen wertvollen Avatar zu verlieren ist damit völlig unbegründet.

Wer aber PVP spielt hat bei dem Tot von PVP-Spielern einen Gewinn wenn er ihn tötet aber auch ein höheres Risiko wenn er getötet wird.

 

Es ist eine Idee, was bisher von NQ vorgeschlagen wurde kann man nachlesen und muss nicht so dargestellt werden als ob nichts anders geht! 

 
 

 

Die Waldfee

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40 minutes ago, huschhusch said:
English (deepl used)
 
Well, if I understand Maximus correctly, it's about the balance between killing and being killed, hence the gradation.
My contribution to his idea is to set the level of loss at one's own death according to one's own playing style. That is, if I don't kill anyone, I don't lose anything if I get killed. Your fear of losing a valuable avatar is completely unfounded.
But whoever plays PVP has a profit if he kills PVP players but also a higher risk if he is killed.
It is an idea, of what has been proposed by NQ so far it can be read  and must not be presented as if nothing else is possible!

And I gave various examples why that is a VERY bad idea and why ppl will be pissed so I don't really get your reply

 

Quote

Wie immer viel Text an der Idee vorbei.

Plus there are already hefty penalties

 

Killing your char permanentely will just upset ppl and will just prevent ppl from going outside the safezone. Ppl should be encouraged to do that - not punished

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English (deepl used)
 
27 minutes ago, Lethys said:

And I gave various examples why that is a VERY bad idea and why ppl will be pissed so I don't really get your Reply

Nice that you think for the others but I'm afraid everyone judges it differently.
 
27 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Killing your char permanentely will just upset ppl and will just prevent ppl from going outside the safezone. Ppl should be encouraged to do that - not punished

I don't know how to say this in your language, but again: Players who don't kill another player won't lose their avatar or anything else, but will only be transferred to their next resurect Point!
 
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German (original)

Schön das Du für die anderen mitdenkst aber ich fürchte das bewertet jeder anders.
 

Ich weiß nicht wie man das in deiner Landessprache sagt, aber nochmal : Spieler die keinen anderen Spieler töten verlieren nicht ihren Avatar noch sonst etwas, sondern werden nur zu dem nächste für sie geltenden resurect-Punkt transferiert!

 

Die Waldfee

 

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1 minute ago, huschhusch said:

Nice that you think for the others but I'm afraid everyone judges it differently.

Well yes. That's why I gave MY opinion. Last I checked, that's why ppl use a forum

 

1 minute ago, huschhusch said:

I don't know how to say this in your language, but again: Players who don't kill another player won't lose their avatar or anything else, but will only be transferred to their next resurect Point!

Yes. I know. Not the point though. Because ppl who kill others do. And guess what? In order to have PVP with all implications (balance the markets, quanta sink, emergent gameplay, usefulness of certain elements, jobs, ....) someone needs to kill someone else. So 50% of those guys are always fkd. That's why it's a bad idea which will not help DU at all but would kill it entirely. And yes, that's my opinion - others have to think for themselves...

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26 minutes ago, huschhusch said:
I don't know how to say this in your language, but again: Players who don't kill another player won't lose their avatar or anything else, but will only be transferred to their next resurect Point!

Which would completely destroy any PvP aside from wars between organization or pure griefing, not a good idea at all. Robbing, stealing etc. might not be nice actions and be quite annoying for the victims but they're still a very important part of an mmorpg like DU.

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1 minute ago, vylqun said:

Which would completely destroy any PvP aside from wars between organization

it would also kill any wars. ESPECIALLY in wars everybody (even builders, traders and crafters) will kill ppl. Then they forget about their killcount again, go back to the safezone and someday when they exit it again and get killed they'll lose everything. gg DU - gg

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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English (deepl used)
 
I see you love wars and PVP. This is still possible, but the higher the kill level, the more the player loses.
Simple example: Let's say that every time you kill 5 or more players and even then die, you go up a kill level. This means that from the 5th player killed, the risk that you will rise one kill level and thus lose more the next time. On the other hand, as a player who kills another player with a high kill level, you can also solder more. Only from Kill-Level 10 you lose the Avatar with Death. In this case it was a bad PVP player anyway, because you shouldn't get killed that often.
Or you give up killing after kill level 9.
 
 
Quote

 

German (original)
 
Ich sehe schon ihr liebt Kriege und PVP. Das ist dann immer noch möglich, aber je höher der Kill-Level  um so mehr verliert der Spieler.
Einfaches Beispiel: Nehmen wir an das man jedes mal wenn man 5 oder mehr Spieler getötet hat und selbst danach stirbt einen Kill-Level aufsteigt. Das heißt ab dem 5. getöteten Spieler ist das Risiko, dass man einen Kill-Level aufsteigt und somit das nächste mal mehr verliert größer. Anderseits kann man als Spieler der einen anderen Spieler mit hohem Kill-Level tötet auch mehr looten. Erst ab Kill-Level 10 verliert man dann den Avatar mit dem Tot. In diesem Fall war es sowieso ein schlechter PVP-Spieler, denn sooft sollte man sich nicht töten lassen.
Oder man gibt nach Kill-Level 9 das töten auf.
 

 

Die Waldfee

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4 minutes ago, huschhusch said:

Or you give up killing after kill level 9.

right. because that's a good mechanic :blink:

you already mined enough - you won't get any more ore. So pls stop mining now and stop doing what you love to do in the game because you will be punished for it

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Its not a matter of loving wars or pvp, its a nessecity for the economy and gameplay. Without loss in battles we would have an endlessly increasing amount of resources/constructs leading to a cluttered universe and worthless elements/minerals.

In my opinion crafters and builders will be way more dependent on PvP than the people who love PvP themselves, because without any loss upon death those crafters and builders will sell nearly nothing and thus won't acquire any wealth/resources to continue doing what they love: craft things.

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English (deepl used)
 
Lethys You only lose the current avatar as a bad PVP player, maybe you will have more luck with the next one.
 
vylqun You can also destroy entire constructs with the Delete key!
 
 
Quote

 

German (original)
 
Lethys  Du verlierst als schlechter PVPler nur den aktuellen Avatar, vielleicht hast Du mit dem nächsten ja mehr Glück.
vylqun Mit der Delete-Taste kannst Du auch ganze Konstrukte vernichten!
 
 

 

Die Waldfee

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ShioriStein If you get killed too often in a fight you started yourself.

 

 

Quote

 

German (original)

 
ShioriStein Wenn man sich zu häufig töten lässt bei einem Kampf den man selbst begonnen hat.
 
 

 

Die Waldfee

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2 hours ago, huschhusch said:

Lethys You only lose the current avatar as a bad PVP player, maybe you will have more luck with the next one.

Yep. And lose 300€ because of it. Start over at 0. Very inviting and well balanced mechanic

 

2 hours ago, huschhusch said:

vylqun You can also destroy entire constructs with the Delete key!

Lol. Without words

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English (deepl used)
 
Hello Lethys,
if you lose money while playing and you don't win any fun, you shouldn't play DU.
Besides, those who like PVP are better off in "Elite Dangarous".
 
 
Quote

 

German (original)
 
Hallo Lethys,

wenn Du beim spielen Geld verlierst und kein Spaß gewinnst, solltest Du DU nicht spielen.

Außerdem wer auf PVP steht ist in "Elite Dangarous"  besser aufgehoben.

 
 

 

Die Waldfee

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10 minutes ago, huschhusch said:
English (deepl used)
 
Hello Lethys,
if you lose money while playing and you don't win any fun, you shouldn't play DU.
Besides, those who like PVP are better off in "Elite Dangarous".
 

Yeah. Glad you don't get to decide about gameplay. Wouldn't even bother to play a game with such bad mechanics which only work against the Playerbase instead of creating a fun and rewarding environment

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3 hours ago, huschhusch said:
vylqun You can also destroy entire constructs with the Delete key!

thats an interesting idea for an enterprise, then please enlighten me, how do you want to make other players delete their stuff so they have to buy new constructs/elements from you?

 

Quote

Besides, those who like PVP are better off in "Elite Dangarous".

please refrain from writing such nonsense, DU needs all kinds of players, belittling someone because of his chosen way to play DU only shows that you have no proper arguments left. I don't tell you to go play minecraft if you want no pvp right?

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English (deepl used)
 
5 minutes ago, vylqun said:

thats an interesting idea for an enterprise, then please enlighten me, how do you want to make other players delete their stuff so they have to buy new constructs/elements from you?

Diplomacy, pure diplomacy. We Germans are good at it.
 
9 minutes ago, vylqun said:

please refrain from writing such nonsense, DU needs all kinds of players, belittling someone because of his chosen way to play DU only shows that you have no proper arguments left. I don't tell you to go play minecraft if you want no pvp right?

That was just for Lethys.
 
 
Quote

 

German (original)
 
Diplomatie, reine Diplomatie. Wir Deutschen sind gut darin.
 
Das war nur für Lethys.
 
 

 

Die Waldfee

 

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5 hours ago, huschhusch said:

Diplomacy, pure diplomacy. We Germans are good at it.

Nice idea... but on the entire game scale ... how ?

 

8 hours ago, huschhusch said:

ShioriStein If you get killed too often in a fight you started yourself.

So if I was force to attack someone like in accident or just to piss off some griefer/troller but they pretend all the time so now after ''often'' being kill I got my avstar delete despite i'm the victim ?!

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Being penalised for killing someone is the same as penalising a miner for getting too much ore.

 

Penalising a gameplay lifestyle is bad for any sandbox game and so would be bad for DU.

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