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Anopheles

Game needs Digfighting

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Game has almost everything I ever wanted.  Building your own base,   Interfactional conflict or co-operation, Political scubaggery, etc.

 

Elite Dangerous without the soul sucking grind, Eve Online with building or Star Citizen with something.

 

But the cherry on the cake for me would be dog fighting.   Ideally this would be at Elite Dangerous level.

 

I know it will start with a ridiculous, immersion breaking method akin to a point and click adventure but I hope they want to move to a dog fighting phase. 

 

This will not just favour Pew Pew but imagine being known as the premier builder of fighting ships?  Imagine fighting for that number one spot by fair means or foul? 

 

Get us to dog fighting soon, please,  NQ, and be as close to the God Damn Perfect game as you can be

 

 

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NQ has been very clear about going lock and shoot for CVC combat. I get what you are asking and can see how for some this would be a big thing. I think though that this is just not something that is (currently) envisioned for the game.

 

You never know whether it may or may not be considered later on but I very much doubt this will have any chance of being on the cards for release or even the first few expansions thereafter. 

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3 hours ago, blazemonger said:

NQ has been very clear about going lock and shoot for CVC combat. I get what you are asking and can see how for some this would be a big thing. I think though that this is just not something that is (currently) envisioned for the game.

 

You never know whether it may or may not be considered later on but I very much doubt this will have any chance of being on the cards for release or even the first few expansions thereafter. 

it will probly be more aim and lock with hit chance

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Hmm.... What is it with futuristic spacecraft and WWII-era aerial combat tactics!

 

I believe the lock-and-fire will only be for turrets and spinals will have something more dogfighty.

 

If we are going to have lock-and-fire, why not add missiles with locks and flare evasion and whatnot?

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You mean trench warfare? Not really working that well against space-ships.... ;)

 

In case of dogfighting - if we get spinal mounted weapons (probably lock and fire, just within limited angle), and if they are better enough than turreted ones (twice at least), and if agility is restricted enough to prevent almost instant turning to face your enemy, and if some game mechanics (hit chance?) encourage remaining in constant motion... then we'll have it.

 

Quite a lot of if.

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It also depends on the weapons available and the medium that combat happens in. If NQ decides to implement the more realistic Newtonian motion in space, then dogfights as we know it probably will not become a thing outside of atmospheres. If air-to-air guided missiles are common, dogfighting will be almost nonexistent like irl, and I see no reason why humanity would have reverted to WWII-era combat style after 500 years of technological advancement.

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If you  have fixed guns on the front of a small fighter i dont see why you couldnt make a dog fighting ship.... just remember to pull up at the last minute ;)

 

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10 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

If you  have fixed guns on the front of a small fighter i dont see why you couldnt make a dog fighting ship.... just remember to pull up at the last minute ;)

 

I think the problem and reason why combat is supposed to be lock and shoot was because of the server tech and load, like things further away updating less often. Imagine having a space battle with several capital ships and maybe dozens or hundreds of fighters or trying to hit a moving ship that shows to be where it was even just a second ago.

 

As for digfighting, I think that might become a thing but be more about hunting underground bunkers than spaceships.

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19 hours ago, 0something0 said:

and I see no reason why humanity would have reverted to WWII-era combat style after 500 years of technological advancement.

Possible reason could be huge advance in defence technology (super-armour), with only offensive option that is powerful enough to do anything being huge (spinal mounting) and incompatible with active guidance (i.e. plasma).

 

Finding lore explanation for gameplay mechanics is never a problem ;)

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The idea of "dogfighting in space" is probably totally unrealistic, the only reason why anyone would expect it to happen is because that's the way it happens "in the movies" and in the space combat games Chris Roberts used to make 20 years ago (e.g. Wing Commander and Privateer).

 

StarWars is "space fantasy", but more recently the TV series "The Expanse" has shown us a far more realistic depiction of what space combat may actually be like.

 

We don't even have dogfights in atmosphere anymore in RL, it's all missiles now and firing at radar blips that you can't even see with the naked eye. Warfare is not a sport, it's all about killing the enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible, while avoiding being killed yourself. The most "futuristic" weapons research in RL is focusing on unmanned remotely controlled war machines and missile-based warfare.

 

However, we're usually happy to abandon realism in games because it makes it more "fun". If DU wasn't pushing the limits of technology, we probably would have twitchy dogfights modeled on WWII aerial combat.

 

If DU was purely a "space combat game", NQ would be spending 100% of their dev effort in making it as "immersive" as possible, instead of spending 25-30% of the dev hours on combat systems and the rest of the time on the voxel-based server tech and the myriad other features that make up the virtual world of DU...

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if i build an advanced spaceship i certainly would include a targeting computer linked to the radar system instead of hoping that a bullet-spraying pilot hits something^^

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2 hours ago, NanoDot said:

The idea of "dogfighting in space" is probably totally unrealistic, the only reason why anyone would expect it to happen is because that's the way it happens "in the movies" and in the space combat games Chris Roberts used to make 20 years ago (e.g. Wing Commander and Privateer).

 

StarWars is "space fantasy", but more recently the TV series "The Expanse" has shown us a far more realistic depiction of what space combat may actually be like.

 

We don't even have dogfights in atmosphere anymore in RL, it's all missiles now and firing at radar blips that you can't even see with the naked eye. Warfare is not a sport, it's all about killing the enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible, while avoiding being killed yourself. The most "futuristic" weapons research in RL is focusing on unmanned remotely controlled war machines and missile-based warfare.

 

However, we're usually happy to abandon realism in games because it makes it more "fun". If DU wasn't pushing the limits of technology, we probably would have twitchy dogfights modeled on WWII aerial combat.

 

If DU was purely a "space combat game", NQ would be spending 100% of their dev effort in making it as "immersive" as possible, instead of spending 25-30% of the dev hours on combat systems and the rest of the time on the voxel-based server tech and the myriad other features that make up the virtual world of DU...

 

"I want space collision damage because realism!" :P

 

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22 hours ago, Nanoman said:

 

"I want space collision damage because realism!" :P

 

Yup, no collision damage is totally unrealistic.

So is respawning after death...

 

The simulation breaks down because in RL the fear of death (and the associated economic cost) limits the popularity of kamikaze attacks.

 

And of course, suicide ramming is not much fun for the victim in game play terms. Aside from the technical difficulties in "correctly" implementing collision damage, it would probably result in a meta where only small and very large ships are practical in game play. Large chunks of metal with a few engines attached will become the most popular weapons for destroying medium (and even large) ships and planetary bases. That may be quite realistic, but it certainly won't make for very entertaining game play...

 

We selectively implement realism in games whenever it suits the intended design, but whenever it is inconvenient technically or undesirable in game play terms, we abandon realism and replace it with pure fantasy (a.k.a. game lore). Realistic simulation in DU is fairly superficial and confined to very specific features.

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Actually it was a joke with reference to what you said about realistic modern warfare (hence the quotation marks).

 

Because it occured to me that vehicle collisions as a viable tactic would be no more realistic than dog fights. So the often used realism argument doesn't even hold up in practice.

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Very large fixed spinal weapons (Like Halo Mac guns) would be nice though. I hope such fit together with lock and shoot model. Could require keeping ship directed in certain direction with small deviance and then have the lock and fire model.

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I picture space combat more like The Expance. Guided torpedos for range and tracking turretets for closer range. Maybe some flak style cannons. 

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The actual fighters are already Lock&Fire beyond visual range. It would be logic to have this on our spacecraft and no more dogfighting.

 

But we have a long way before the first PvP mechanisms. And I'm wondering if they won't put PvP at the very end of the development to let creative and community players build a world before letting others destroying it.

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16 minutes ago, Jon Oxdale said:

And I'm wondering if they won't put PvP at the very end of the development to let creative and community players build a world before letting others destroying it.

 

PvP needs to be in the game at the end of development. This is mainly due to how the devs have set up the game to run itself with the no-kill zone at the start and defendable territories on planets. Having no PvP before the launch of the game might be good to build up the civilizations, But, there are parts of this game that rely on the PvP to make it enjoyable and provide content for its players. Plus it would be pretty cool to see a universe start to populate even with global crisis forming and wars raging on, could give the start a bit of an apocalypse vibe.

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The vision for the game does not include such a vibe.. Players may create it in areas at a certain point but it's not in the original plans as well as rather counter-productive IMO.

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Like I mentioned a few posts ago this is totally going to be The Expance. Computer targeted combat going 10-20kph. Small ships, I think, will be able to escape faster and are still fine as a personal transport but medium sized and highly maneuverable gunboat with well placed elements will be the most viable option In my opinion. 

 

I really like this. I do. Real space combat should be strategy and fore thought not who has the best HOTAS skills. 

 

Behold!! The best space combat sim! 

https://youtu.be/cZfsnA7dAHI

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