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Scrapping captured enemy ships?

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Everything is renewable in DU, you can take apart your ship and have all your resources returned to you. Assuming there are normally permissions for editing a Starship, if this ships crew is lost are these  permissions turned neutral? Do we have to go in the ship, destroy the core, and then we can scrap the ship for all its resources? How do you think this will be done? Do you think it will be fair?

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We don't know yet and nothing has ben released that I know of on this subject but in theory if I destroy a enemy ship after I destroying  its core that should sever all ties of  ownership of that construct and I should be able to salvage it or place in my own core and try to take control of it ? If this is possible people will probably try to hide the location of there cores forcing  attackers to have to destroy a lot in order to find the hidden core and maybe giving them time to counter attack be for losing  all the materials they used !

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I expect something like eve online. when a ship is destroyed (in DU we can think to destroy mean destroy the core) you can start recycling the ship to get the resources.


I think a good thing should be, hack the core to conquer big ship.

like you fight, you break a wall, you go inside, fight with gun and hack the core.

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15 hours ago, vylqun said:

 

No perms :

 

However I think salvaging would be in the game depending on how many holes you decided to put in the ship

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Or.... with ship to ship to weapons kill all the crew on a ship , which then becomesa ghost ship, slows down as its pilotless, board it, destroy the core disabling the ship and removing rdms and destroying lua scripts and connections.

 

Thus allowing you to salvage it voxel by voxel. Which might take time.... hope the original owners dont come back in another ship with revenge in their heads!

 

Fun times indeed  :)

 

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I would expect that salvaging would be limited in scope, otherwise not enough materials would be lost.

 

That in turn reduces the incentive to prospect and mine for ores, as "recycled" materials re-enter the manufacturing chain.

 

If materials are not constantly removed from the game world, the "pool" of resources in circulation will rapidly grow, and could result in a situation where mining is only worthwhile for the rarest resources. But even "rare" will become common eventually if things are not lost...

 

 

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3 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

I would expect that salvaging would be limited in scope, otherwise not enough materials would be lost.

 

That in turn reduces the incentive to prospect and mine for ores, as "recycled" materials re-enter the manufacturing chain.

 

If materials are not constantly removed from the game world, the "pool" of resources in circulation will rapidly grow, and could result in a situation where mining is only worthwhile for the rarest resources. But even "rare" will become common eventually if things are not lost...

 

 

Making salvaging undoubtedly a great risk reward system and could really pay off for some underdog taking out a huge ships crew. I hope you don't have to dig for a core only because if a core had that much electrical value then it should at least have one side of it unblocked for access. 

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Salvaging , yes it can be lucrative bussines but only if done right by Devs ofcourse.

And again I propose a hand maned laser cuter or other energy based power-tool for salvaging purposes!

 

I agree that biger the risk biger the reward.

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16 minutes ago, Kregon_Tempestus said:

Salvaging , yes it can be lucrative bussines but only if done right by Devs ofcourse.

And again I propose a hand maned laser cuter or other energy based power-tool for salvaging purposes!

 

I agree that biger the risk biger the reward.

or.....  just have salvaging/recycling take two, three or even four times longer than nomal mining  ;)

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4 hours ago, unown006 said:

What if we could automate drones at short rages to auto salvage for us if you get far enough in the tec tree?


I kind of like the idea of the awkward business of having a designated scrapper get out of the Starship and head over to the decommissioned ship to slowly, dangerously gather the resources or repair and pilot the ship back out.

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Am I the only one seeing this topic thinking "boarding" --> "hit self destruct button" --> "gtfo" --> "then salvage"? Or building salvaging bots that leech on to someone's ship ... 

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3 hours ago, virtuozzo said:

Am I the only one seeing this topic thinking "boarding" --> "hit self destruct button" --> "gtfo" --> "then salvage"? Or building salvaging bots that leech on to someone's ship ... 

lol good point, however Im thinking a self destruct explosion is like a weapon of mass destruction, hence probably wouldnt happen in NQ vision of things.

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23 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:

lol good point, however Im thinking a self destruct explosion is like a weapon of mass destruction, hence probably wouldnt happen in NQ vision of things.

Ah, that makes me think back to old mines in EVE Online. At some point there was this dev with the idea of selfdestructing a ship causing a splash damage zone. Brilliant idea, but sadly we, well, kinda already went bonkers with mines themselves (players can and will go apeshit with anything) so they ended up tossing the idea and scrapping mines alltogether :(

 

I'd put selfdestruct damage with the topic of ramming :) 

 

Either way, I do think that the concept of salvaging ought to be something founded on a shared tech base which enables salvaging as we think of it, but another tech branch would enable building sneak weapons that operate on similar principles. Robot sabotage kind of thing :) 

 

Oh well, I'm sure that at some point NQ will let us know how they want to approach these matters. In the mean time, considering that resources are as important as roles players may adopt I do think that there should be means to make use of both empty and wrecked constructs. 

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On 05/05/2018 at 8:36 AM, NanoDot said:

I would expect that salvaging would be limited in scope, otherwise not enough materials would be lost.

 

I think Nano is right above. When the ship is destroyed: The actual voxel materials and elements will all disintegrate into destruction out of the game world - MOSTLY. All that value and added-value needs to be destroyed to keep the economic engine spinning.

 

I guess a small residue of material will be SALVAGEABLE as an interesting by-product of large ship fleet destruction for example. But not large enough for a large number of scavengers or a regular source of material?

 

I do like the idea of specialist kit on ships for salvaging however.

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I would hope you could disable a starship without completely disintegrating it with overwhelming power. Each ship is going to be made out of mostly prime resources, really would be a waste to see it explode.

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That's quite tricky aspect - how to ensure resource sink without using any silly artificial mechanics.

First option is making players unable to fully repair elements. So i.e. a gun that lost 50% durability (thus get disabled in combat) can only get 80% of that damage repaired (so it'll end at 90% - remaining 10% remain as "permanent damage").

Thus it'd create need for new elements for both loosing and wining side, while at the same time filling market with sub-par elements for those not so wealthy.

 

Another thing is preventing too easy coring of the ship - disabling it without dealing significant damage. So maybe "core shield capacitor" type of element, that need to be destroyed before you can even touch the core (and it can be located on the other side of the ship). It could apply to the near surrounding of the core too, so I.e. main control unit live as long as the core.

In general coring should not be the aim of the combat, but rather something you do after the fight is over.

 

IMO hiding the core is not the way to go - we're here to fight, not search for artificial "I win" button.

 

Also the elements that are less likely to be destroyed (internals - storage units, generators, ect) should be in general much less valuable than external ones (weapons, engines).

Thus at least that part of the market will be at constant need of new parts.

 

Or elements should just go boom when destroyed, wrecking everything around them. It would also ensure that covering whole ship surface with guns not only look terrible, but is also completely impractical due to chain reaction.

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3 hours ago, CalenLoki said:

That's quite tricky aspect - how to ensure resource sink without using any silly artificial mechanics.

First option is making players unable to fully repair elements. So i.e. a gun that lost 50% durability (thus get disabled in combat) can only get 80% of that damage repaired (so it'll end at 90% - remaining 10% remain as "permanent damage").

Thus it'd create need for new elements for both loosing and wining side, while at the same time filling market with sub-par elements for those not so wealthy.

 

Another thing is preventing too easy coring of the ship - disabling it without dealing significant damage. So maybe "core shield capacitor" type of element, that need to be destroyed before you can even touch the core (and it can be located on the other side of the ship). It could apply to the near surrounding of the core too, so I.e. main control unit live as long as the core.

In general coring should not be the aim of the combat, but rather something you do after the fight is over.

 

IMO hiding the core is not the way to go - we're here to fight, not search for artificial "I win" button.

 

Also the elements that are less likely to be destroyed (internals - storage units, generators, ect) should be in general much less valuable than external ones (weapons, engines).

Thus at least that part of the market will be at constant need of new parts.

 

Or elements should just go boom when destroyed, wrecking everything around them. It would also ensure that covering whole ship surface with guns not only look terrible, but is also completely impractical due to chain reaction.

A simple way would be you can only repair what you own/have rights to.

 

If the ship/item is no longer owned. ie. The core is destroyed ending RDMS for everything attached to it. Then what is left of the battle worn ship is salvageable only as raw materials.

 

So if the ship has 75% damage you can only salvage that 75%.

 

Lua scripts and links between elements (and lua scripts in elements) blow up/short circuit rendering all elements in a basic virgin mode. Elements can then be owned by being picked up, which would be a separate action to salvaging. The elements themselves may need repair, which can be done once owned. Repairs can be done on the element to bring it to 100% health.

 

So the resource sink will essentially be the bits of construct that aren't repaired before being salvaged by a new party. (The 25% from the above example).

 

Salvaging should be, say four times slower, than mining as generally speaking the material you are harvesting is of higher quality than simple ground ores etc. ;)

 

This keeps things simple, protects builders IP, and ensures fun gameplay. :D

 

PS: Remember that if a ship is designed well, the core will be in relative center of a ship as NQ has said that damage to ships will be an area of affect damage type, so it would make sense to put the core approx in the ships center with as much armor/protection around it as possible. For fun, if I was making DU, I would make it explode slightly when destroyed, removing the core from the game as both a signal to all participants that the ship is nullified and possibly causing a random chain reaction to other elements, as mentioned in the previous post.

 

Now that would be fun ;)

 

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On 5/5/2018 at 12:36 AM, NanoDot said:

I would expect that salvaging would be limited in scope, otherwise not enough materials would be lost.

 

That in turn reduces the incentive to prospect and mine for ores, as "recycled" materials re-enter the manufacturing chain.

 

If materials are not constantly removed from the game world, the "pool" of resources in circulation will rapidly grow, and could result in a situation where mining is only worthwhile for the rarest resources. But even "rare" will become common eventually if things are not lost...

 

 

This can be balanced with players increasing as well

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@CoreVamore IMO that's too artificial. Salvaging is basically the same as removing parts from your own constructs, and should follow the same rules. What if I attacked a base/ship to take it over and keep it, not just to loot/destroy? Do I have to scrap whole construct and build my own?

 

Of course you shouldn't be able to make blueprints of captured construct or access Lua code (IP protection). But no other actions with constructs should be limited just because you're not the original owner.

 

Also IMO encouraging people to salvage by making it faster than mining is a good way to make the space and planets cleaner. If it's too slow to be viable, we'll end up with tons of space garbage flying everywhere. We just need to make sure that there is not much left after battle, but it should be well worth picking up.

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I think it will be possible considering all the things you can do in the game right now.
And why wouldn't they do so you can do it? It would be awesome.

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