Politics, Government and Player Voting Power

[vylqun]

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2015/03/20/organizations-build-your-corporation-faction-nation-or-empire/

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2017/03/31/organizations-purpose-management/

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2015/05/21/rights-duties-management-system/

 

Everything needed to create your own democracy right there.

[dw_ace_918]

2 hours ago, Lethys said:

Yeah and so you try to argue for a .....system. ... To "Balance" that. Because it's easier If it's imposed on all of us instead of making ppl actually work for it. 

Guess we just disagree Here. You want it handed to you by the game like in a theme park mmo. I want players to deal with it on their own Like in a real sandbox

With respect and gratitude. Thank you for your insights. I doubt minds will be charged on this, and it's easy to make conclusions. Feeling misunderstood in this thing and standing alone. So we can end I hope on a positive note, and not drag people through the mud because we disagree. So cheers my friend and good debate.

[dw_ace_918]

11 minutes ago, Nanoman said:

Hey nothing is stopping you from starting an org that does exactly what you want. That's the beauty of this system. It can even encompass other orgs as members. I think there's probably some orgs already that are at least similar in spirit. Take a look around on the community portal if you like. And definitely read those devblogs.

 

The only thing you can't do is make it mandatory to join. And it won't be free and easy, it takes time and effort to build something from scratch which you can't simply outsource to NQ. But if you're serious about this and not just daydreaming, and you have a good idea that resonates with players and you make it clear what it's all about, then they will join you.

 

I guess it all depends. If it turns out to be something I don't like, I can quit my subscription to the game any time right. I won't have lots of time to devote to the game because of my work schedule, and I just what to "do me" when I do. I hope the concepts that attracted me to this game won't be overshadowed. My impression of the game now is different than when first I saw it advertised and no solid points of development have confirmed or refuted what we can only speculate. IE, people (myself included) have a lot of different expectations and assumption about undeveloped or undisclosed aspects of the game. But none of this has to do with this topic, except I understand the suggestions to follow what we think we know regarding organizations. I appreciate your uplifting attitude in your posts, thank you for that.

[dw_ace_918]

9 minutes ago, Nanoman said:

 

The whole game is about freedom, amigo. You get out what you put in, you can do what you want and quit when you want. That's why NQ won't impose a mandatory all-encompassing government of any kind.

 

And that's why they are designing such flexible organization, RDMS, market and contract systems. It's not a big mystery how those are planned to work (except perhaps contracts but the main principles are pretty clear).

 

Cheers

I'm just learning about these aspects of the game. If you know any good references I could review to understand what is known, I would be greatful to you. I'll do some research myself before digging any deeper into this topic. Thank you and cheers.

[vylqun]

15 minutes ago, dw_ace_918 said:

I'm just learning about these aspects of the game. If you know any good references I could review to understand what is known, I would be greatful to you.

you requested sources, i posted them and you ignored it, just scroll up a little^^

[dw_ace_918]

4 minutes ago, Nanoman said:

This should keep you busy for a while

 

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/

https://dualthegame.com/en/news/

https://www.youtube.com/user/dualthegame/videos

https://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Dual_Universe_Wiki

 

Here are the AMA's (Ask Me Anything) from the above links (that I know of):

 

https://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Archive:Kickstarter_AMA_Video

https://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Archive:Kickstarter_AMA_Q%26A,_Part_One

https://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Archive:Kickstarter_AMA_Q%26A,_Part_Two
https://dualthegame.com/en/news/2018/02/08/in-game-ama-feb-3rd-2018-transcription/

 

And there are also plenty of interviews on youtube and other articles online that you can search for if you want more.

 

Thank you, I'll look through it.

[dw_ace_918]

2 hours ago, vylqun said:

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2015/03/20/organizations-build-your-corporation-faction-nation-or-empire/

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2017/03/31/organizations-purpose-management/

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2015/05/21/rights-duties-management-system/

 

Everything needed to create your own democracy right there.

Thank you, it will take me some time to go through.

[dw_ace_918]

6 minutes ago, dw_ace_918 said:

Thank you, it will take me some time to go through.

Thank I got it. In foresight, I posted this thread prematurely wit no insight. I apologize for this. I hope something good can come of this. Being that there was strong opposition to my suggestions, makes it all the more irrelevant as a topic and discussion. Thanks to everyone who provided feedback, views and opinions. Cheers to you all.

[Aaron Cain]

No problem, This is an idea topic, so feel free to post. Some of the other posters disagree on a more friendly scale then others. Some also already think they know all and own the place so dont worry and post all ideas. even the in your eyes stupid ones.  And feel free to disagree with everyone, freedom isnt free, politeness and friendliness is.

 

Good luch on your posts, and i sent you an pm

[Veld]

 @dw_ace_918so I take it the idea is to make in game tools that players can use to organise their political systems?

 

I see no issue with that other than players can simply use many online tools for such things. It can be argued that, for example, online polls could be sabotaged by the enemy. But is that not like how it is in real life? *cough* Putin *cough* *cough*. To be honest you could probably LUA script a polling station.

 

[dw_ace_918]

6 minutes ago, Veld said:

 @dw_ace_918so I take it the idea is to make in game tools that players can use to organise their political systems?

 

I see no issue with that other than players can simply use many online tools for such things. It can be argued that, for example, online polls could be sabotaged by the enemy. But is that not like how it is in real life? *cough* Putin *cough* *cough*. To be honest you could probably LUA script a polling station.

 

I think possibilities are endless, so more tools more options. I'm not a script writer, but that would be another way to do it. I really don't know much about it yet, so this topic has become a learning experience for me. I'm feeling a little unqualified to speak on it anymore.

[Veld]

10 minutes ago, dw_ace_918 said:

I really don't know much about it yet, so this topic has become a learning experience for me. I'm feeling a little unqualified to speak on it anymore.

I don't even know what the OP is even about. Is this just an open discussion for in game politics mechanics? Honestly all I see are a bunch of 'old man yells at cloud' posts from libertarians and people disagreeing with making some sort of in game system.

 

Edit: ok so at a second glance it seems your original idea was to make cookie cutter orgs? Not detrimental. Not beneficial. Just not needed really. Unless you are lazy ofc.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Veld
See edit

[dw_ace_918]

1 hour ago, Veld said:

I don't even know what the OP is even about. Is this just an open discussion for in game politics mechanics? Honestly all I see are a bunch of 'old man yells at cloud' posts from libertarians and people disagreeing with making some sort of in game system.

 

Edit: ok so at a second glance it seems your original idea was to make cookie cutter orgs? Not detrimental. Not beneficial. Just not needed really. Unless you are lazy ofc.

Yeah, something like that. Thanks for your interest in it, but it's kind of a dead horse now. If I knew how to delete it, I would.

[dw_ace_918]

4 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

No problem, This is an idea topic, so feel free to post. Some of the other posters disagree on a more friendly scale then others. Some also already think they know all and own the place so dont worry and post all ideas. even the in your eyes stupid ones.  And feel free to disagree with everyone, freedom isnt free, politeness and friendliness is.

 

Good luch on your posts, and i sent you an pm

Thank you.

[unown]

10 hours ago, vylqun said:

sorry, but thats nonsense. Organisations will be a big part of the gameplay, and considering the devblog concerning orgs (which you probably didn't read) they are far from static and defined. They can be pretty much everything if set up correctly.

And if you join an org. with a single leader aka Boss, then its your choice, no reason to cry about not having anythign to say. You could as well join a democratic org and take part in decisions etc.

 

DU whatever you want - but don't force other people into a democratic superorganization just for your sake.

Democercys are few and far between

[unown]

9 minutes ago, dw_ace_918 said:

Yeah, something like that. Thanks for your interest in it, but it's kind of a dead horse now. If I knew how to delete it, I would.

As far as I know you cant and you shouldn't its useful info for others that will come after us

[dw_ace_918]

22 minutes ago, unown006 said:

As far as I know you cant and you shouldn't its useful info for others that will come after us

I see, I hope it can be helpful to someone. Thanks.

[dw_ace_918]

2 hours ago, Veld said:

I don't even know what the OP is even about. Is this just an open discussion for in game politics mechanics? Honestly all I see are a bunch of 'old man yells at cloud' posts from libertarians and people disagreeing with making some sort of in game system.

 

Edit: ok so at a second glance it seems your original idea was to make cookie cutter orgs? Not detrimental. Not beneficial. Just not needed really. Unless you are lazy ofc.

"Old man yells at cloud" posts, lol, that's about right.

[dw_ace_918]

 

 

6 hours ago, Veld said:

I don't even know what the OP is even about. Is this just an open discussion for in game politics mechanics? Honestly all I see are a bunch of 'old man yells at cloud' posts from libertarians and people disagreeing with making some sort of in game system.

 

Edit: ok so at a second glance it seems your original idea was to make cookie cutter orgs? Not detrimental. Not beneficial. Just not needed really. Unless you are lazy ofc.

So I'm revving up this topic again. I look forward to all kinds of feedback.

[dw_ace_918]

Topic on this idea is not shut down yet. Maybe we can have a conversation about the idea and your opinion. It isn't about organizations or dev positions. It's about what you the potential players want. I look forward to you opinions, ideas, insights and health debate. I've made a few revisions on my original idea, and have reinforced my resolve to advocate for it at the risk of ridicule and reputation. Thank you all again for giving me much to think about.

[Veld]

4 hours ago, dw_ace_918 said:

Yeah, something like that. Thanks for your interest in it, but it's kind of a dead horse now. If I knew how to delete it, I would.

This is a discussion not a bitch fest. If someone tries to take it in that direction then they're not worth the time of day. That's that. No room for emotion.

 

I disagree. A lot of people disagree. And through that the answer has been laid out. There are tons of dead threads people go to to answer their questions. This thread will serve that purpose like any other.

 

Back on topic. I think tools can be provided in game to make political and corporate organisation easier. The problem arises that a lot of activity cannot be effectively monitored in game without having a guy watching and taking notes.

 

The solution: a versatile supplement to LUA. Databases can be added in game to hold and store information inputted by players themselves. They have their own coded data signatures and can interface them with coded systems. The sky is the limit here. A polling station, a checkpoint, clocking in to the job. If it has to do with data; you name it. You want to make a big brother org. You can do it.

[dw_ace_918]

8 minutes ago, Veld said:

This is a discussion not a bitch fest. If someone tries to take it in that direction then they're not worth the time of day. That's that. No room for emotion.

 

I disagree. A lot of people disagree. And through that the answer has been laid out. There are tons of dead threads people go to to answer their questions. This thread will serve that purpose like any other.

 

Back on topic. I think tools can be provided in game to make political and corporate organisation easier. The problem arises that a lot of activity cannot be effectively monitored in game without having a guy watching and taking notes.

 

The solution: a versatile supplement to LUA. Databases can be added in game to hold and store information inputted by players themselves. They have their own coded data signatures and can interface them with coded systems. The sky is the limit here. A polling station, a checkpoint, clocking in to the job. If it has to do with data; you name it. You want to make a big brother org. You can do it.

Indeed. Thank you. All of that is true. It would be cool to see players creating their own systems of organization including ones that emulate different government styles. Although I am advocating a very specific and superior structure, I think players could fill the void where I am looking for dev to give all players the tools on a larger scope with certain expectations. Sorry if that sounds cryptic and nonspecific, I'm of course reffing to the principles I suggested in my idea. In the end, player involvement and maintenance would decide the success of any organization structure, with or without these design mechanisms.

[dw_ace_918]

I'll give an example of what I mean by specific and superior structure. Because a government organization would require a large number of people to initiate (say 10s of thousands or more), in addition to fully open to all players (not citizens in another government organization) they could employ different aspects of governance. So while not being over organizations, they would have power to take action against organizations (including other governments, even players). So using an example of a government organization that employs a justice system here is my example: organization a and organization b make a written and binding contact. Organization b breaks the contract but a is to weak to do anything about it. Org a could report the offense to a gov org. Gov org investigates, looks at evidence, submits findings to a vote do decide if action should be taken. Org b is found guilty so gov org dispatches security or military force (built by the community). If gov org is able to defeat org b, org b must pay restitution to org a for breach of contract according to how gov org deems fair, end of case. If b cannot be defeated ever, no action can be force on them. This could apply to criminal organizations and individuals as well. A red flag would show they are wanted. Bounty hunters and mercenaries could be hired by gov org as well. Other function would be available for gov orgs and employ based on design and community participation and contribution. Leadership structure would follow design of gov org structure (initiated by large subscription to it, justifying it's creation) such as voting, dictatorship, monarchy, counsels, constitution, religion etc... That is my explanation of a few aspects related to gov org as a specific or special and superior organization.

[Veld]

1 hour ago, dw_ace_918 said:

34 minutes ago, dw_ace_918 said:

A red flag would show they are wanted.

This is an example of how intelligence is used. The said red flag could be made by flagging them up on their database and spreading the word to other organisations.

 

Intelligence is a key asset to anyone who wishes to control and enabling simple mechanics to document the activities of players would be very interesting to see play out. Especially as databases could be vulnerable to sabotage and espionage.

 

34 minutes ago, dw_ace_918 said:

Bounty hunters and mercenaries could be hired by gov org as well

I brought this up in another post actually: all that's needed for a bounty hunter system is a method of taking trophies from individuals. With a registry system,  they could cut off the head and dump it in the LUA scripted head deposit box and claim their reward.

 

With regards to the rest of your post it seems you are describing contracts and treaties? In places I have trouble understanding. But, even so, contracts are something that can be facilitated by LUA and the registry system. The actual contract just has to be a secure piece of data.

 

As for systems of justice, most of it is down to the players' activity independent of any game mechanics. The only sentence being that of ostracisation. I don't see any in game system that fits seamlessly into the sandbox that can allow to enact justice in a non intrusive manner.

 

To add any system of restraint and conviction would only cause certain issues to arise. Such as:

 

New players getting hauled off by trolls to noobtanamo bay never to see the light of day. The problem being they have no friends to bust them out. They won't get to experience the game.

Restrained players not complying because they don't have to care about dying

 

Of course registry could be used to set all turrets to open fire on them if they got close. But you're not going to be able to make them comply to engage in trial.

[dw_ace_918]

A more controversial aspect of what i am advocating for is an initial dev designed gov org. It would be needed to prove its value to players as well as provide a blueprint and foundation on which players can build. Its potential for failure posses a risk to dev as well as players response to it in the game. However, even if an initial iteration failed,  player designed gov org structures may succeed in gaining subscription to initiate and potential gov orgs could still emerge, making the work to provide it to players not a waste.