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dw_ace_918

Politics, Government and Player Voting Power

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Hello @Davis. I like the fact that you have added to this topic by sharing what you would like to see from the organization structure.

I'm not sure if sandbox means anything in relation to how dev makes rules and limits on various aspects of gameplay or that sandbox necessitates that no limits will be imposed as a sandbox is just a structure that has limits (box) and is intended to provide an environment where many can enjoy themselves.

I agree that a game should not be anything like a job.

Quite frankly, I already work 60 hours a week, so not only do I want to enjoy myself, but I also want to get the most out of the time I spend in game.

I hope people will help to form a free society and that the organization structure supports full democratic autonomy as well as supply a through set of tools and options for players to do this.

I'm not against any organization structure or any organizations that are currently being proposed by players, however, I have not found any that seek to achieve the lofty goals of democracy based on citizenship (ie players chose leaders and e plaribus unum) and so forth.

Additionally, I would like to see options not only to employ a full democracy but also a way to set up functions that are automated (like election cycles) and provides a checks and balances design based on powers, limits and accountability for leaders.

Anyway, I hope dev give us all everything (within reason) to employ any organization system or type as well as subsequent functions and autonomy (based on setup and design of organization). <that's a sandbox>

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11 hours ago, dw_ace_918 said:

I agree that a game should not be anything like a job.

 

I feel that's where trying to create player states or notable organizations in such sandbox / emergent gameplay games like DU will probably conflict with that aim, sadly. From my estimations and partially also from my experience, trying to start a project or organization from zero or scratch takes a lot of work. Technically even trying to grow or maintain a classic organization that is not resembling some big state or project can be or will be a full-time job if you want to invest the most into it.

 

Technically there is always something to do. Think of new ads, marketing campaigns, try to establish ties with other people, find new (ideas for) products, create new websites, be present in community hubs, etc. And all of that doesn't include one bit of game action or gameplay. So in addition to that you have to add all of the gameplay relevant actions like building, mining, being present in-game, talking to people in-game, shipping goods, fighting or helping people actively, etc.

 

In other words, I don't think there's really any maximum time cap. It's open ended. Usually progression is faster the more time you pour into it. If I'm gone and not doing anything, not much is done. Someone else either has to do it, or there is no real progression.

 

In other words, I just think then genre of this game makes it "like a job" once you plan to do certain things - like build a giant city or create a player state. That's just what it is. Even later on in large groups where many burdens are shared across many shoulders, I suspect that some positions still could equal something "like a job" time-wise, meaning that you can in theory never pull enough time into it, there would always be something or more to do. Brings me to the next part:

 

 

11 hours ago, dw_ace_918 said:

Quite frankly, I already work 60 hours a week, so not only do I want to enjoy myself, but I also want to get the most out of the time I spend in game.

 

I suspect many of us have such commitments in reality, and many have to find a good balance. But once you try to accomplish some things in-game, it's basically like a work or job commitment. With the previous things in mind, you better be sure you want to proceed with this in the position you aim for (founder, leader, something comparable). Of course trying to get the most of the time is legit. We all want a good time in games, more or less or if all goes well.

 

Before I end up writing more of the same, my point basically is, TL;DR: Some things we attempt, depending on the scale and who backs us initially or later on, is more or less like a real job - in my eyes, anyway. And maybe we should realize that and change expectations. I believe doing so helps one mentally shoulder this big amount of work or stress better instead of expecting an easy ride through the themepark, in figurative terms.

 

I would like to end with an example.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number crunching or some stuff

 

I have to work a set amount of hours per day on average. Sometimes less, often more, it depends on what happens. In addition, I add travel times, break, etc, taking 5 days, a normal work week.

 

On average I'm gone 11 hours per day, which would be 55 hours a week. When it comes down to it, rather more if more work is there and if I thus stay longer. So for the sake of it, let's go up 5 hours and use basically your schedule of 60 hours a week. Do mind that in my example I have travel effort included. If you did not add that in your case, it would be more, unless you basically live right next to your work place or something.

 

60 hours

That's like two and a half days non-stop where I am not home. Or 12 hours per day. Gone half a day each day during the week. Holy moly, if I think about it. I should really move closer so I can at least reduce that number a bit!

 

But think about what I could do in a game or for an organization each time, and live as things unfold, not always just notice them when they happened as I come home, if I had that time for an organization or game instead. Where I could be if I actively invested just half of that or a quarter more each day, counting release and the ability to build in-game. I don't need to be "on it" 60 hours like some sort of job replacement, but more time always helps in such cases where you want to establish organizations or projects, or maintain them.

 

The point here basically is to show that there's usually no real hard cap and that you can, in theory, always invest time into an organization or project, healthy breaks included of course. So if there's usually no hard cap and if "the more the merrier" applies, I think it can basically be seen as "job" to some extend.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now before this text blob becomes bigger, I really wish you good luck and well in your endeavors. The more people help, the easier it becomes to solve tasks or share burdens. But I still believe it's basically like a second job at that point. If 60+ hours are already used up, I believe you can only get far if you have enough supporters. Otherwise, growth would be very slow or stagnant as most tasks would fall on your plate as "main initiator" or "founder", basically.

 

Text blob signing off.

 

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@Warden I understand your point, how in game responsibilities can be tantamount to a job.  I guess where I define the job vs fun time aspect is the motivation and purpose behind why I am doing something.  Although I enjoy my job and like the people I work with, it is a job and I do it for income not fun.

Now, I play games on my own terms, to enjoy myself and socialize.  When it is no longer fun, I find a different game.

The big factor in how this game will look on this scale depends on organizations.  I do not intended to slave for some organization.  I would be happy to pay a tax to be part of an organization that promotes player freedom and provides various functions such as justice, military and leadership.  In such a case, my involvement would have to also be voluntary, otherwise I could focus on building my own business and enjoy gaming with others.

In any case, I guess my ultimate point in this thread has nothing to do with this specifically.

The game should not be like a job, so we where discussing how organization structures and features could help make the game as a whole more enjoyable as well other tools and features we hope to see from dev in regards to organizations.

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51 minutes ago, dw_ace_918 said:

@Warden I understand your point, how in game responsibilities can be tantamount to a job.  I guess where I define the job vs fun time aspect is the motivation and purpose behind why I am doing something.  Although I enjoy my job and like the people I work with, it is a job and I do it for income not fun.

Now, I play games on my own terms, to enjoy myself and socialize.  When it is no longer fun, I find a different game.

The big factor in how this game will look on this scale depends on organizations.  I do not intended to slave for some organization.  I would be happy to pay a tax to be part of an organization that promotes player freedom and provides various functions such as justice, military and leadership.  In such a case, my involvement would have to also be voluntary, otherwise I could focus on building my own business and enjoy gaming with others.

In any case, I guess my ultimate point in this thread has nothing to do with this specifically.

The game should not be like a job, so we where discussing how organization structures and features could help make the game as a whole more enjoyable as well other tools and features we hope to see from dev in regards to organizations.

It's just (restricted to) roleplaying anyway, so as long as people have a bit of common sense to not go overboard there's plenty room to have fun. 

 

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