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Subscriptions and DAC's: Can You Afford Them?


DarkHorizon

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3 hours ago, boots_1588 said:

 

?Still, the subscription thing is scaring  people away, I agree with the like stop smoking thing or don't spend 10$ on a Big Mac or whatever, but can someone tell me why for example fallout 76 doesn't have a subscription model?? 

 

Apples, oranges. Your argument would maybe have a very, very slim point here is DU would sell each expansion as a new game, asking for another 'one time payment' Besides that the server requirements for both games is completely different.

 

NQ will not charge for expansions when they are released, just like EVE. They will just integrate into the game.

 

 

2 hours ago, boots_1588 said:

Thing is some people want to make a one time payment, I personally don't care weather it is subscription or not, but literally like 5 of my friends were like  "I'm not getting that" some people want to pay once and be able to play whenever as long as they want without having to worry about cutting coffee or something out of their life. 

 

If people want to make a one time payment they can do so and then work in game to not pay for sub with $$ again. That people do not understand the subscription model and can't be bothered to even inform themselves it may be better they do actually stay away.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

If people want to make a one time payment they can do so and then work in game to not pay for sub with $$ again. That people do not understand the subscription model and can't be bothered to even inform themselves it may be better they do actually stay away.

 

I'd like to highlight this again, as I've stated it in similar fashion elsewhere recently.

 

Of course if someone never heard of DU and you start talking about it and then mention subscriptions, and just that, people might think you have to pay monthly to play - and some apparently dislike it or do not want to.

 

But what I find vital as someone believing in the scope of the game, in simple terms, a supporter, is that one should also mention that you theoretically do not have to pay beyond your initial contribution or month(s). In theory, perhaps not counting an initial cost for the game, you might not have to spend one actual buck. This might be a relatively rare scenario, but with the given model I consider it possible.

 

You'd just need someone to get you PLEX DAC. Maybe you have friends that play and they somehow obtained those. Maybe there will be people or organizations who offer them to new players in return for favors or working that off in-game. Maybe there will be random lotteries where DACs are thrown out to participants. Who can really tell yet? It could be possible. What could be more likely or realistic for a lot of players, however, is that some start by initially paying one or a few months and eventually, depending on their efforts and luck, manage to obtain the right contacts or money to buy DAC in the game and use them as game-time.

 

It certainly won't be "piss easy" in either case unless random luck or the right approach plays into this, but it's theoretically possible.

 

In short, if someone speaks about DU or advertises it, they should perhaps highlight that it's not the "classic subscription model" in that sense, with the PLEX-like currency of DAC. I frankly think that this should not keep those away who are interested in the game already. If it's really the money itself, I could argue that you could already save up right now if the game's vision or scope really interests you, allowing you to start with paid months once it's ready or far enough, and then work on getting the necessary in-game money to eventually allow you to trade or utilize DAC.

 

Thinking about saving up, perhaps it's generally best to always save up a bit for something. You never know what might happen or when you need something. Reminds me to save up for an eventual PC overhaul. I best get to it already... many hungry games are looming on the horizon (the next years).

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Well, as far as this whole thread goes.

 

We can sum it up in four blocks:

 

- Can't afford sub

- Can afford sub, but doesn't want to. He rather wants to be able to buy cool hats, skins or give himself a boost over someone else

- Can afford the sub and even churns out DAC so he can skip the tedious things. He has enough money somehow.

- Can afford, but he just wants to play. Without ever paying anything.

 

1. Could do stuff so he can buy himself an DAC ingame.

2. Skins and Cosmetics probably will be ingame, if they're extremly sucessfull we might get that sub fee gone (not necessarily good ... but it can work).

3. Could make a contract with someone, that he will "work" ingame for him for a certain time for a DAC.

4. Could just leave out one pizza + drink per month or any of the thread starters suggestions (simple math, sub isn't alot),

 

We will certainly lose alot of people, at the start, without them ever haveing tested the game.

IF they never add a 7 day or 14 day trial time.

 

The best way to go or rahter the two best ways to go:

- Free Beta Keys. Game is nearly finished and people can take a look, if it's something they would pay for. We got these to handout to friends and other random people. + NQ will probably hand them out via PR actions too.

- Trial time. People can play, but everything will be gone if they don't decide to invest a DAC into it or a sub. To prevent abuse ... trade might need to be restricted. We don't want "gold sellers" getting into the game as easy as possible. (But that's another topic .... these guys just use "stolen creditcards" and buythemself in anyways. Getting an refund on that anytime, they get cought ...)

 

 

I think, DAC will be easyer to achieve then alot of people think.

If anything, duo to the large amount of DAC at the start. A single DAC will be alot less worth, then lets say after 2 years.

For that starting time, people that can't or just don't want to pay will be able to acquire them easily.

 

 

--

 

I will certainly not say what i think of free to play games. A neat free to play app game is circling around atm that is scamming people (again).

But people will need to look at free to play at one point in time and think. Think hard.

 

Most of these are made, so that you're hassled and bothered. If you don't pay for that exp boost or that time dilution for your crafting ... or you have only 1 craft slot and VIP have 5. They're made so that ultimately they funnel alot of people into buying.

 

And i am not even going to the broken P2W ones, these just hunt for whales. And count on the other "free" users to be living bait.

 

I love Extra Credit :

 

 

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@Sofernius

 

In addition in regards to the whole "losing players due to pay gap" (simplified summary) and measures to promote the game, we should not forget something else.

 

Word of mouth. Multimedia. This:

 

latest?cb=20150310174638

 

 

youtube_PNG13.png

... and of course many more, these are just two prime examples of sharing content. I also used those big pictures on purpose, as those are two big notable platforms that can and will promote DU beyond forum threads, reddit and anything else that could aid in spreading the word.

 

In the end, not everyone will be able to take a look till beta and whatnot. Regardless of whether there is a free / limited trial or not, all those platforms just mentioned will not just allow people to get a look at the game, it will promote it and make it known to some in the first place. I'm not even looking at what I would call pure gameplay videos or videos from the community.

 

There are many known Youtubers (and Streamers) beyond single or few games, channels covering various games. "John Doe" just playing DU and posting videos is doing his part, but there's also big names out there who will cover the game, and due to their followers and fans and their reach, those "influencers" will do their part in promoting the game. I think if people really start to like the idea of the game and - once ready - its technical, social and gameplay possibilities, if they generally could afford a sub they'd take the dip and try it out. Or they can inform themselves about cutting down on hard costs due to DAC and whatnot.

 

Last but not least we should not ignore the slim or perhaps not-so-unlikely chance of news outlets picking up stories of the game, if it will turn into something like a "new EvE Online" for people, whether it intends to do this or not. I mean there are plenty of news articles about the game not solely posted on primarily game related websites and whatnot.

 

There's a friggin Playboy article about the guy who died in the US embassy attack who played EvE Online in his free time and did notable things in there, while I think other stories were mentioned about some players and their "life style" in that game. I can see DU as something like a progression with sandbox elements to this.

 

If all goes well.

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Yeah. Probably around Beta time, alot of Youtubers and streamers will account for the largest amount of influx in players.

Hopefully NQ will hand out keys to people like that.

 

I myself only gotten here, through a recommendation :3.

I still hate that guy, this game will be to addictive for me.

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2 minutes ago, Sofernius said:

I still hate that guy, this game will be to addictive for me.

 

In theory it could be like a second job. It surely could replace any primary job time-wise.

 

It is, after all, not a game you play a few rounds and leave it be, as it always resets or something. What's more engaging and time consuming than trying to create civilizations, groups, businesses and the like with other players while trying to expand land or territory-wise in a persistent world?

 

To put it in other words, there really is no time limit or time cap. You could always invest more time, even though healthy breaks are suggested.

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This is my personal wiev on DAC and it is my opinon and plans for DU.

 

I have enough money to pay subscription and play for fun, in Eve online never have to measure ISK/hour always doing activities which I like to do, not have to do.

I have sam plan for DU. Buy subscription to play, buy DAC to get in-game money and then do activities I like.

 

So there will be always DACs for players with enough in-game money and if you very active ingame you can play it for free.

 

cu all in alpha 1

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Applying logic to the subscription "debate" is fruitless, because game monetization experts have refined the art of exploiting human psychology ! ;)

 

Most players players probably spend more in F2P microtransactions annually than they'd ever do on a fixed monthly sub, but unlike the fixed sub, they don't keep careful record of their impulse spending in F2P games. They'll insist that their spending is "voluntary", and they are not "forced" to spend in order to play.

 

And spending on items in a Cash Shop is psychologically more justifiable, because the amounts are usually smaller than a sub and each purchase represents clear "value for money". The player knows exactly what they get for what they spend, whereas it's a whole lot more tricky to assign discrete "value for money" to an access fee. Specially when there's loads of other games that have NO access fee...

 

The F2P model also allows players to "game-hop" to their hearts content, they can dabble in 20 different MMO's over the course of a year, with no upfront costs involved.

 

Cash Shops and microtransactions have won the psychological war years ago... :)

 

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@boots_1588

As mentioned in the forum rules, please do not necropost on old threads as you have done already several times.
(The forum rules has been updated to indicate what is considered an old thread)
Granted, this time you stay in the limits but keep this in mind for the next times.

 

Now to reply on the topic:

  • Fallout56 is a multiplayer game and NOT a MASSIVELY multiplayer game. Todd Howard confirmed that during the E3 2018 Bethesda Conference. So it can be compared to Minecraft, Ark, Conan Exiles... but clearly not to MMORPGs where the server infrastructure cost is exclusively handled by the Dev Studio or Publisher.
     
  • The Subscription model is one of the few topics not open to discussion. We have already talked in great length about why we went for a subscription model and no, there is no solid argument countering the reasons why we chose this model.
     

1) Dropping monthly subscription to have more players is not a valid argument if the server infrastructure cost grows proportionally to the player base size while incomes don't grow accordingly.
 

2) Saying subcription is an outdated model is not a valid argument as it relies on personal opinion not backed by solid reasons. Seeing less MMORPGs using monthly subscription is not a solid reason if there is no understanding about the "why". 

 

Here is how we view the situation at Novaquark: monthly subscription model has been on the decline due to nearly no clear innovation in the MMORPG industry during the last decade. As new MMORPGs had to offer something different than those already well settled in the market (World of Warcraft, EVE Online, etc), if they weren't going to offer something really new, they had to be different on another level: monetization model. That's how the Free to Play games wave began. Many marketing representatives said many times that "Free to Play" was the future and most people believed it. Inconvients of such model were put under the rug... for a time. The question "Is F2P good or bad?" is irrelevant. Free to Play is a good monetization model good for some kind of games. We just don't think MMORPGs is among those. When you aim to have a game lasting for decades, you need to have steady income for decades as well. Free to play game incomes are too fluctuant, especially because they rely on the success of cosmetics (which is a everlasting gamble for a company as no one knows for sure in advance if players will love the new cosmetics and how much income it will generate before they hit the shop) and lootboxes.
 

Ironically, there has been recently a huge witch hunt about lootboxes. While we totally understand the reasons, it's a bit surprising that this problem has been exposed only recently, as lootboxes are as old as the Free to Play model and represents nearly always a (very) large part of F2P or B2P game incomes. Surprisingly, with this kind of monetization now forbidden in a growing number of countries, discussions about monthly subscription model are a thing again for many studios and publishers. 
 

3) Saying people want to make a one time payment is not a valid argument either: nobody with some common sense can ask for a one time payment (at the price of an average game) and expect to have a service lasting forever.

 

@Sofernius

18 hours ago, Sofernius said:

2. Skins and Cosmetics probably will be ingame, if they're extremly sucessfull we might get that sub fee gone (not necessarily good ... but it can work).


Quite unlikely.
From a financial point of view, that would mean taking more risks than necessary: as said above, it would mean going from a steady income model to a fluctuant income model. Cosmetics make a good complementary income to B2P and subscription models but again, making it the main income of a game is very risky, especially if the structural costs for a game are high.

 

18 hours ago, Sofernius said:

The best way to go or rahter the two best ways to go:

- Free Beta Keys. Game is nearly finished and people can take a look, if it's something they would pay for. We got these to handout to friends and other random people. + NQ will probably hand them out via PR actions too.

- Trial time. People can play, but everything will be gone if they don't decide to invest a DAC into it or a sub. To prevent abuse ... trade might need to be restricted. We don't want "gold sellers" getting into the game as easy as possible. (But that's another topic .... these guys just use "stolen creditcards" and buythemself in anyways. Getting an refund on that anytime, they get cought ...)


Those two things are already planned ;)

Beta Key giveaways and Trial period at official release.

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar.

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2 hours ago, NQ-Nyzaltar said:

...Free to Play is a good monetization model good for some kind of games. We just don't think MMORPGs is among those. When you aim to have a game lasting for decades, you need to have steady income for decades as well...

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar.

I agree, and think you are making the correct choice. All the games I find myself going back to after years of play are the subscription model games.

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2 hours ago, NQ-Nyzaltar said:

Here is how we view the situation at Novaquark: monthly subscription model has been on the decline due to nearly no clear innovation in the MMORPG industry during the last decade. As new MMORPGs had to offer something different than those already well settled in the market (World of Warcraft, EVE Online, etc), if they weren't going to offer something really new, they had to be different on another level: monetization model. That's how the Free to Play games wave began. Many marketing representatives said many times that "Free to Play" was the future and most people believed it. Inconvients of such model were put under the rug... for a time. The question "Is F2P good or bad?" is irrelevant. Free to Play is a good monetization model good for some kind of games. We just don't think MMORPGs is among those. When you aim to have a game lasting for decades, you need to have steady income for decades as well. Free to play game incomes are too fluctuant, especially because they rely on the success of cosmetics (which is a everlasting gamble for a company as no one knows for sure in advance if players will love the new cosmetics and how much income it will generate before they hit the shop) and lootboxes.
 

Ironically, there has been recently a huge witch hunt about lootboxes. While we totally understand the reasons, it's a bit surprising that this problem has been exposed only recently, as lootboxes are as old as the Free to Play model and represents nearly always a (very) large part of F2P or B2P game incomes. Surprisingly, with this kind of monetization now forbidden in a growing number of countries, discussions about monthly subscription model are a thing again for many studios and publishers. 

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar.

 

In regards to the monetisation model and the F2P angle. Having facilitated between investors and the industry in regards to IPO rounds and the evolution of subscription models to hybrid/F2P, it isn't everybody's cup of tea. NQ is very right to be very careful in its considerations, particularly considering the sandbox foundations of its venture. 

 

F2P in an MMORPG venture is a subtle application of the same sales & marketing psychology which introduces cocaine to the whales in order to get everybody else hooked up on other variations on the type of trigger. In an environment where behavioural interaction is the key that comes at various innate costs. 

 

On the lootboxes matter, that is actually very simple. The user segments which are exposed to them, interact with them, are not the same segments (generally) as those which express concern about the concept (and the forms of implementation). It simply took a while for the proverbial parent to figure out the proverbial kid and talk with enough similar parents for the matter to surface to attention levels elsewhere. Plenty people warned in plenty places ahead or at introduction, but were ignored. It isn't a late reaction, it is merely so that it took time for perception to correct and receive a platform. 

 

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On 3/27/2018 at 10:30 AM, DarkHorizon said:

In the time I've spent reading these forums, I see this topic come more than a handful of times on DAC's and DU's subscription system. It's something to be expected, a merchant goes "hey I got a nice product, pay me xyz dollars", then the consumer goes "how can I get this for the best value for my money?".

 

This is a quite normal thought process. I think of it every time when looking at goods and their prices and especially before I check out my products. We value our money because we put time and effort into earning it, and want to maximize our potential with it.

 

Our time on Earth is fairly limited. We'd much rather spend it doing the things we enjoy. Being among family and friends, playing a favorite game or watching a pleasurable TV show, producing something we know others will find value in, enjoying a good drink, or relaxing someplace nice.

 

Our money is also fairly limited. Bills and utilities need to be paid, food stocked in the fridge, insurance for the car, books for the college student, the oldest child needs to borrow $20, again... the list goes on.

 

The means with which we acquire said money is also relatively limited. Businesses are open certain hours, shifts are only so long, and our work is only so interesting before we must devote that remaining days time to the above mentioned.

 

Insert Dual Universe.

 

For those of you that are currently not in the Pre-Alpha tests, you've seen the videos (some more than once) and read the news, you're excited. Pre-Alpha testers are not only excited but are also able to experience this new game and bring some of their dreams to virtual life for others to enjoy.

 

Mind, blown... Everything seems awesome until you meet "subscription" and "Dual Access Coupons". Upon closer inspection, this is, indeed, a subscription-based game... oh no...

 

For those of us that have followed along for a while, we know that a subscription will fall somewhere around $10 to $13 a month, while DAC's will be a bit more expensive at $15 to $20 a month. Not a big deal right? For some, it isn't, but for others, it's a major hurdle. Maybe you've been a free2play player all your life and can't imagine the thought of paying, or perhaps you simply can't afford it.

 

Well friends, hurdles are made for jumping over, sometimes three at a time. and jump we will...

 

If you can't afford a months subscription time, let's dig into this thing called 'our life' and examine what we can do to afford a months worth of game time. 

 

If you don't have time to read, I'll cut this all down to a paragraph for you at the very bottom of this post! -_-

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

First off, what is the difference between a subscription and a Dual Access Coupon? What even are they, to begin with?

 

Have you ever been to a fair? For those who haven't, the rides are fun, and the food is more than questionable. From sugar overload to dipped in oil to stuff you've never seen before and never will again...

 

How do you get access to that fair though? You can do two things:

 

  1. Buy an all-day wristband at the gate. Unlimited rides from now until closing time. One person only, or...
  2. Buy tickets. The ferris wheel is one ticket, bumper cars are two, etc. You can split it among friends.

 

You go for the wristband and wander in. At the fair, there are those booths filled with games that are statistically near improbable to win but among the prizes, you notice that there are tickets, with a grand prize being a roll of 1000 tickets. With some time, you luck out and score that 1000 ticket roll but you have an all-day pass, what do you do with it?

 

You sell it to the kids that need more tickets and make back what you paid for on your all-day pass.

 

Short analogy, lets work with it...

 

All new accounts will start with a free trial. Think of this as being outside the fair, yet still able to see all the rides that are inside. You can enter the game environment and get an idea of what you can do inside of it, but there are limits like skill restrictions, construct sizes and the number of elements that can be placed for example. You can see the rides, you just can't ride them.

 

In Dual Universe, let's say that this all day wristband is the subscription that you buy from the gatekeeper, NovaQuark. It's yours and can not be taken from you in-game. You get thirty days to play, after which your subscription will end and you can either pay for another month or end up unable to play.

 

Dual Access Coupons are like the tickets. You can also get them from NovaQuark and spend them in the game environment however you like. Be it hiring out another players services, using it to fund your own time, or you could give it to a friend. If you put in your own services into the in-game environment, you can get paid in DAC's as well. Since DAC's are not as secure as a subscription and present as an item in the game, you also run the risk of having them taken from you with force by another player.

 

You can buy a subscription, pay for the game, and be perfectly fine. You can also buy Dual Access Coupons or earn them inside the game to also pay for your game. Both achieve the same goal, but what's the difference?

 

  • A subscription is purchased from NovaQuark and tied to you, it can't be taken in-game, and it can't be sold in-game.
  • A Dual Access Coupon can also be purchased from NovaQuark, unlike with a subscription, however, it is only associated with you. What this means is that the DAC can be stolen from you in the game since it is an in-game item. It can be purchased in-game from another player, and likewise sold as well.

 

Now that we've defined what a subscription and DAC is, as well as the differences between them, let's go about discussing how we can pay for our game time.

 

Since DAC's are more versatile, in-game items, I will be referencing them in the place of subscriptions. Be sure to also keep in mind that DAC's are a few dollars more expensive than a subscription.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Let's assume for simplicity sake that a single DAC is $15 and expand it over a years time.

$15 x 12 = $180

 

Starbucks ---

Caffe Latte  -  Tall (Small)  -  $2.95

$3 x 5 days = $15

15 x 4 weeks = $60/month --- Not including saved gas money

or

1/3rd of a year's DACs

 

Now that you lasted a month, maybe you want to cut Starbucks out of your life entirely?

 

$60/month x 12 months = $720

720/180 = ...

4 years of DAC's

 

Dropping your coffee habit alone could pay for a year of time playing Dual Universe, AND that of three friends! :lol:

 

Xbox Live ---

12mo = $60 or 1mo x 12 = $120

or

1/3rd to 2/3rds of a years DACs

 

No job ---

If you don't want to give up your console gaming and aren't old enough to hold a job, go shovel snow, rake yards, mow lawns, wash cars, trim bushes etc. $60 is a good weekends worth of work, it's also good exercise too!

 

Additionally, if you're still a kid and you get an allowance from your parents, you are now on my hit-list because I never got one and I'm super duper jealous of those that do. You can put that towards your subscription.

 

If you get paid for doing chores around the house, you are also on my hit-list because I never got paid for doing chores, insanity I say! A roof over my head, food in my stomach, and clothes on my back were payment enough. :angry:

 

Now, if you can hold a job...

 

Yes job ---

How long would you have to work to fund a year's worth of gameplay? Not as much as you might think...

 

Not including tips or lunch breaks ---

180 / 7.25 (US federal minimum wage) = ~25 working hours or just over three days at eight hours/day

180 / 10 = 18 working hours or a little over two days

180 / 15 (some state-mandated minimum wages) = 12 working hours, a day and a half's work, or for some, an all-day shift 

 

Phone plan ---

If you have a phone payment plan through a major wireless carrier, you are messing up, hardcore! Consider looking at a non-major wireless carrier and you could save big.

Verizon: 4 lines - Unlimited talk, text, data, high quality streaming for $160/mo = $1920/yr

*MintSim: 1 line - Unlimited talk, text 10G high-speed data (per mo) then unlimited throttled - $25/mo (if purchasing 1yr bulk package = $300/yr) x 4 lines = $100/mo = $1200/yr

4 lines on MintSim over 4 lines on Verizion makes for a savings of $720/year

4 years of DACs

 

*This is strictly for comparative purposes, I do advocate nor am I paid to on behalf of MintSim, this is strictly for comparison reasons, please don't hurt me.

**MintSim runs on the T-Mobile network so you may or may not have coverage in your area.

 

Cable TV ---

I can only compare this to myself so bear with me.

 

Basic Cable = 20 channels = $20/mo

12mo = $300/yr

TV antenna + coax cable = 9 channels + 6 sub-channels

$40 - one time cost until something breaks

 

Money saved on TV each month could easily pay for your DACs if you're on a limited TV plan or live in a metro area with lots of TV antennas.

 

If you're interested in this, the US FCC has a barebones guide on antennas in your area with only a zip code needed. Of course, this all depends on your immediate controllable environment like the antenna location+height vs trees, other buildings, and things more or less out of your control like a mountain between you and the antennas or living down in a valley, even the weather can be against you. Renters might want to check their building codes when mounting an antenna on the roof or on a mast.

 

College Books ---

If you're buying them outright (from your college bookstore) and not renting them (also bookstore) that's also another issue... Get them, and rent them online, the savings can be massive!

 

Abnormal Psychology 8thEd - Oltmanns and Emery

College bookstore: $278

Amazon: $247 (purchased, new)

Amazon: $35 (rented)

Amazon: $10 (purchased, new, international edition)

 

Savings of $268 off one book for one semester B)

17.5 months of DAC 

 

Bigwords is personally recommended for their comparison services.

 

Transportation to and from college ---

Let say you live in a modest town of and college is all the way across town so you drive five miles like I would have to do every weekday, then five miles back home.

Your car gets 30mi/gal on an 8gal tank. 240 miles per tank.

Gas = $2.55 for the state of North Dakota

One tank = $20.40

Your car can make 22 round-trips + 1 for stop/go + 1 for gas if it's strictly for this use. 

 

Most colleges will offer students a free or discounted pass on public transportation. Let's say that isn't offered and you're stuck paying regular fares. My local bus service charges $1.50/ride for an adult without a student ID, and rides are free with their ID. In this case:

$1.50 x 2 rides/day x 22 round-trips = $66

One tank = $22.40

 

In this case, driving yourself is more economical than riding the bus.  A trip to campus from home for me is 30 minutes so I spend an hour on transportation each day. So considering my student pass makes transportation free, it becomes a value question? What do you value more, your time, or your money?

 

Don't forget that a vehicle needs to be insured so that costs additional money and there are so many variables I won't even bother spelling it out but it is worth remembering.

 

Savings of $43.60 if you drive as opposed to riding the bus

2.75 months of DACs

 

$66 not spent if you can ride for free

4 months of DACs

 

 

Mobile Options ---

Yes, you can use your phone to make money.

 

Some will pay you for installing and trying out various apps. Maybe you have to install it and have a look around, or perhaps you have to achieve a particular objective or rise up to a specific level?

 

Others will pay you to view ads. I'm only familiar with ones that show lock screen ads which only take a fraction of a second to slide away, but there might be other options available too.

 

If you have an Android (not sure about iPhones) and haven't heard, Google Opinion Rewards is a great place to start. The only catch is that you can only spend your credit in the Google Play store.

 

 

Digital Currency Mining ---

I have absolutely no experience in this so forgive me if this is short.

 

By now I'm pretty sure that everyone and their mum have heard of the Bitcoin. If you haven't, what kind of rock have you been living under and can I get one too?

 

Aside from the Bitcoin, there are various other coins out there that hold "value" and are obtained through a process of "mining". Mining involves crunching numbers and verifying the results. This can be a slow process although it can be sped up with more powerful hardware that if bought for the sole purpose of mining, brings the process of Return on Investment (RoI) into play.

 

For individuals, this could be a zero-sum game.

 

While Bitcoin has increased in value over the years, so has the difficulty in mining. Basically, where you could score say once every hour a couple years ago, you'd be lucky today to do so every week, month, quarter, I really don't know. Additionally, more people are mining the currency so that ups the factor now that the Bitcoin pie is being split among more people.

 

Aside from paying off your RoI which could take months, there is also the cost of electricity you need to consider. Sure you could be mining coins, but that money might just be going to your electric company in exchange for the additional power you are consuming from running your equipment 24/7. Not to mention any applicable wear and tear associated with the constant use or pushing your components beyond safe limits.

 

Lets also not forget to talk about the climate that's around you. Since your components need to be kept cool in order for them to work, if you can pull in cool air and exhaust out hot air, you'll be peachy. If you're pulling in already warm air, however, your cooling setup will need to work a lot harder to keep your components from overheating which again you'll also need to consider your electric prices.

 

Did I also mention that you are competing against warehouses of GPU's and CPUs (that sometimes catch fire)?

 

It should also not need mentioning that digital currency is extremely volatile. Indeed, something that might be worth $20,000 one day, might easily be half that the next.

 

 

Above all, digital currency is a gamble, not an investment.

 

That said, there are various digital currencies that can be mined through CPU's and GPU's, although I recently (3/27) just heard about a new currency, Burstcoin, that can be mined using your digital storage devices. If you're so inclined, it might be something worth looking into.

 

 

Work in-game ---

If none of the above is an option and you have a good deal of spare time on your hands, do some work in the in-game economy. Let me explain how this works:

 

There are often two types of people: Those who have a lot of money but not much time, and those who have a lot of time but not much money.

 

Someone will buy a handful of DAC's and exchange them for Quanta, you put in some work and after being paid for your work, you can then use that Quanta to turn around purchase your DAC's in the game environment and be set for another 30 days.

 

Mine, refine, haul, build, design.

 

The only limit to the possibilities is you.

 

 

Not enough in-game time, no outside money ---

 

What kind of pickle are we in here? A big, juicy, fat one. Let it be known on the record, I hate pickles...

 

You have plenty of online and mobile options to choose from but be wary, these can be fairly hit-and-miss. From having a minimum required balance to withdraw to not being able to withdraw in your desired method, these are only the start of your issues.

 

"Get Paid To..." websites are exactly what they sound like. You'll be paid for various things like giving your opinion on surveys, watching videos, and completing tasks. The greatest source of income can be had through purchasing sample packs or getting an item for a discount on the basis that you get a few extra dollars in return (spend 5, get 7).

 

Depending on the website and activity you choose, however, you could be fraught with risks. Are you comfortable with giving your demographics to surveys so they can confirm or deny your participation based on their desire to hear from a subset of people (male, 30s, part-time job, birthday, college educated, married, etc), do you trust your credit card details online in exchange for sample products? :huh:

 

A couple of other risks entail spam. Although I had received very little spam in my email inbox prior, that certainly ticked up after I started earning through this method. I haven't received any physical spam in the mailbox, but it's been years since I used this service so things may have changed.

 

Additionally, if you truly value your time, this might not be the best option. While doing surveys, I can not tell you how many times I was booted at the very end because the survey reached their participation goal, my demographics were undesirable, or a question I answered had screened me out. Having spent, in some cases 30 minutes, it is very rage inducing. The fact that you may not even get a few cents in compensation for your time that is now wasted is one major reason why I would not endorse this, although being a teenager with no income, I muscled through.

 

I could go at this activity all day and sometimes not even break a dollar, although, on a good day when I was blessed by the gods, $10 was mine for the taking. Of course, if you have a job then you'll be guaranteed payment for your time, whereas here, you obviously have no such thing which is one of the reasons why you won't find me doing this.

 

All that said, I consider myself a personal success story, having earned almost $600 in the time I spent doing this which I think is no small feat, although there are some who have gone on to earn thousands (yes, plural) over an extended period of time.

https://snag.gy/tbLmMC.jpg :D

 

If you recognize this website, please do not speak of it by name. I broke away after they implemented their 3-month timeout mechanism that locks your earnings which I wholly protest, so I can not, and will not endorse them. Yes, this is one such feature you might have to put up with...

 

I won't promote any single site by name but if you google around, finding one should not be an issue.

 

With all this in mind, this really is a last-ditch effort which is why I have moved this to the bottom of the stack.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Now, this is all strictly an example, it obviously won't fit everyone.

 

There are so many things you can either do without or adjust your spending on when it comes to saving money that it really is a no-brainer when it comes to paying for your game time. Sure when you look at $120 to $180, it can be a big number all by itself, but when you do a bunch of small things over the course of time, it really starts to add up. Hey, isn't that a saying somewhere? ;)

 

Why do I bring this up when $10 isn't a big deal like I said in the intro? Because it is a big deal.

 

Again, little savings do add up over time when compared to societies current habit of spend spend spend, swipe swipe swipe. 

 

Do you really need to go out for dinner every other night at the corner restaurant when a homemade meal can cost a fraction of that and still take just as much time to prepare as it would driving to the restaurant and waiting?

 

Do you really need that thousand dollar iPhone when your current model is just fine? Need more storage, buy an SD card or use the cloud. Need more battery life, buy a power pack. Need a faster phone, drop Apple and take a bite out of a $480 OnePlus5, it's got six gigs of ram and SD 435 for its CPU. Yeah, that's right, it's an android. Bite me you expensive fruit, cheap candy is the way to go! :P

 

Yeah, it's nice to splurge those savings on something once in a while when you feel like you deserve it, case-in-point, I'm a ruby founder.

 

Also, pay with cash over using a credit card, it's an easy way to visualize how much you're actually spending in between paychecks.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

In closing, yes, you can afford a DAC, you can afford tons of them, you just don't know how to do so. Luckily now you do.

 

These few examples are just ones I pulled off the top of my head that I have either seen or experience in my personal life, I'm sure folks can come up with so much more to add here so I'll just leave it at that to get you started! 

 

Please suggest something and I'll add it to this post!

 

Hope this helped! :D 

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

If you skipped all the way to the bottom and didn't bother to read everything I laboriously took the time to write, here's what you can do to afford your Dual Universe subscription.

 

Cut out Starbucks, stop playing on Xbox Live, mow lawns, wash cars, shovel driveways, re-evaluate your phone and cable TV plans, rent your college books online, consider using public transportation to and from college if your pass makes it free to do so, do some in-game work, or consider looking for ways to make money doing things online.

This is an amazing feature and that makes the game not just an outstanding example of an outrageously great game but available to many more than just the regular crowds.  This game I would suggest for all of my family and friends to play.

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That's quite the post ;)

 

TL;DR

'I expect':

  • Subscription to be around $15/month, likely with discounts for 3, 6 or 12 months subscriptions when bought 'in bulk' (Like EVE)
  • DAC will be around $20 and when bought will then be available to you in game. You can use it to extend play time or sell it for Quanta which will allows you to buy other stuff ingame which can't be bought using $$ (but may be bought using Quanta, the in game currency). Again, like EVE's PLEX.

 

Oh, and Starbucks sucks.. Worst coffee on the planet.. A Nespresso machine is cheaper AND makes better coffee. (IMO of course.. Always IMO) ;)

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Since this is on the topic of DAC's, CCP (Eve Online) used to (and probably still does) allow players to redeem PLEX for conference tickets to Eve Fanfest in Iceland. You couldn't pay for a plane ticket with them, but you could redeem 6 of them for a pass instead of paying with money. 

 

If NQ ever does a Dual Universe Fanfest, I hope they also allow us to do something similar with DAC's. 

 

It was just interesting to see how you could pay for a convention with currency you earned while playing the game, a convention that was all for that specific game. It's a little nod towards the players who even have that much floating around in the game because those are the most dedicated people anyways. Arguably someone with that much money, DAC or PLEX, they've either played a ton of the game to earn that much, or they're buying them, in which case why would they be spending that much unless they were really into the game?

 

 

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45 minutes ago, yamamushi said:

Since this is on the topic of DAC's, CCP (Eve Online) used to (and probably still does) allow players to redeem PLEX for conference tickets to Eve Fanfest in Iceland. You couldn't pay for a plane ticket with them, but you could redeem 6 of them for a pass instead of paying with money. 

 

If NQ ever does a Dual Universe Fanfest, I hope they also allow us to do something similar with DAC's. 

 

It was just interesting to see how you could pay for a convention with currency you earned while playing the game, a convention that was all for that specific game. It's a little nod towards the players who even have that much floating around in the game because those are the most dedicated people anyways. Arguably someone with that much money, DAC or PLEX, they've either played a ton of the game to earn that much, or they're buying them, in which case why would they be spending that much unless they were really into the game?

 

 

Yes, Ive always thought that in game items that can substitute for a subscription were awesome, both because you could eventually with enough dedication play the game without ever having to worry about a subscription, and because it helps give what you have done in game actual real world value. 

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13 hours ago, Arcangle003 said:

This is an amazing feature and that makes the game not just an outstanding example of an outrageously great game but available to many more than just the regular crowds.  This game I would suggest for all of my family and friends to play.

Pleaes ... don't qoute big walls of text without redacting things xD.

 

It's just forum netettiquite.

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Having done the subscription/plex model before in eve, there are a few things that have been implemented "over there" that have made it very successful, and that's all based around security.
When I first decided to sell a 'Game time card' as it was back in the day (pre-plex).  There was no security, you didn't feel safe selling one, and there were a lot of scammers.  However once the newer system was introduced all the purchases were verified, and you felt a lot more secure selling it.
But specifically as someone who would consider selling DAC in game you would want certain guarantees, such as;

- DAC cannot be destroyed or stolen.
   I'd say this is key to this working, so that seller and buyer have confidence.

- DAC trading should be covered by special rules, denying the ability to scam/steal, with harsh punishments
   Same as above really, confidence in the system.  I'm all for scams in game, hey if you have the gift of the gab and want to use it, go for it.  That's real life for you.  But this is a game and we're talking about peoples ability to play it, and real money.

- The price of the DAC is not fixed in game.
   The problems caused by a flexible market, if market prices fall, then if the price of DAC were fixed this is ok, the seller becomes richer.  If market prices raise then the seller feels hard done by.  You might argue well tough, but if I'm getting less value out of my real money I'm less inclined to spend it, especially as it's optional.

The only real downside to something like DAC is that it will likely be out of the reach of a newer player.
PLEX you had to grind for a long time to be able to afford one, but then if it only took you 2 hours to grind enough cash to buy one, why would anyone sell one?  I know I certainly wouldn't.
It would certainly put off the casual sellers who occasionally buy one to supplement their in game earnings.
How ever if you judge the value of a DAC by how much its worth to the average player to grind for 60 hours (2 hours/day in a month) that value will be much higher for seasoned players and much lower for new starters.  However until we know the details of how things like skills will affect player earnings its hard to be certain!

I've think rambled enough here, but the tl;dr of it is, DAC needs confidence, people will happily give up their money so others can play for free, but need to feel they are getting a good return on it.  But above all else, Security.

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13 hours ago, yamamushi said:

Since this is on the topic of DAC's, CCP (Eve Online) used to (and probably still does) allow players to redeem PLEX for conference tickets to Eve Fanfest in Iceland.

 

afaik they do not allow for this anymore

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3 hours ago, Bishop Crane said:

- DAC cannot be destroyed or stolen.
   I'd say this is key to this working, so that seller and buyer have confidence.

- DAC trading should be covered by special rules, denying the ability to scam/steal, with harsh punishments
   Same as above really, confidence in the system.  I'm all for scams in game, hey if you have the gift of the gab and want to use it, go for it.  That's real life for you.  But this is a game and we're talking about peoples ability to play it, and real money.

- The price of the DAC is not fixed in game.
   The problems caused by a flexible market, if market prices fall, then if the price of DAC were fixed this is ok, the seller becomes richer.  If market prices raise then the seller feels hard done by.  You might argue well tough, but if I'm getting less value out of my real money I'm less inclined to spend it, especially as it's optional.
 

 

While I agree there has to be vault system of some kind where DAC can be kept in game, safe and untouchable. If you choose to carry it on you or with you in your ship it should be lootable and potentially be destroyed. Pretty much like this works for PLEX in EVE

 

Trading DAC will/should be like any other commodity. You put in a sell order and the DAC will be kept in storage as long as you keep the sell order up. It will be returned to you if you cancel or it a set 'sell by' time expires. If you fall for an in game scam that would be on you and there should not be any protective systems in place to prevent this.

 

If you offer DAC at X and prices trend up because of how the market works it is your responsibility to adjust the asking price or you will be providing a good deal to someone. Same with buy orders, it's your responsibility to make sure what you offer o buy for is in line with what the market value or you'll undersell yourself. Again, not for NQ to control.

 

 

All this will probably be much like how EVE markets work and that is a good and proven system. 

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3 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

afaik they do not allow for this anymore

That's only because they determined it was an extremely small amount of people that even used the option:

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Bishop Crane said:

- DAC cannot be destroyed or stolen.

[DAC cant be stolen from your corpse, ever. They noted that down as a rule of thumb. Destroyed, maybe. No clarification on it. But it wont "get broken" from dieing.]

- DAC trading should be covered by special rules, denying the ability to scam/steal, with harsh punishments
[If you trade someone DAC ingame and use an Container with rights for both partys. And never see the other end of the bargain. It's your fault. They said clearly, they wont check for scammers and punish them. That is, if you can put a DAC into a container or trade it outside of the Market. Which when only market is alloweed, will fix that problem. As it's quite hard to scam you of an DAC on the market.]

- The price of the DAC is not fixed in game.
[Will never be fixed. It's quite simple market economics. A DAC is as much worth, as the people who want to sell it and the people who want to buy it agree to. Could be worth 2 hours of mining ... or 20 hours. Or any eqvuivalent of that "worth" in Scripts, Ships etc. When the game bots don't give us fresh quanta, each quanta will rise in value of the long shot. As there will be less Quanta to go around. The same happens with DAC too. At the start of the realese, we will have an influx of possible 100k DAC. If alot of people want to get through the mining and building steps quick and sell their KS or Supporter Pack or selfbought DAC, price for DAC will be low. And only start to rise when the amount of DAC on the markets decreases.)

 

 

Don't ask to fix something that is not broken xD.

If you don't feel inclined to pay money for an DAC to get rid of what you don't want to do yourself. Do it yourself and have fun at it. Someone will find it worthfull and keeping supplying the market, as long as enough interests meet.

 

PS: I really wondered already about just one thing. If someone places a DAC into the market, will it be physically present in a container too? Thus lootable? ( sorry if i am spamming you two guys, but you're the best shot at getting an answer without makeing the NQ staff read my wall of text before it xD)

 

@Mod-Meldrik @Mod-Merwyn

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Yeah, that has been an ongoing confusion regarding that aspect.

When NQ refers to the DAC tokens as "Non-Physical" items, they are referring to the real world. You won't be able to find a DAC at your local dollar store or super center, because they are not a physical card.  So to answer that question, yes, DACs will be "Physical" items in the Virtual World of Dual Universe. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to move them to the market or from inventory to inventory.
 

Here's a link to more details regarding that matter. (Take it with a pinch of salt as this information is now almost 2 years old)

 

 

 

~ Meldrik

Edited by Mod-Meldrik
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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

@Mod-Meldrik @NQ-Nyzaltar

It would be nice to know if there is any progress on the considerations NQ has made towards how DAC would be handled in game. SUch as, will there be something like the PLEX vault in EVE?!

 

one more item for a SOON™ devblog perhaps ;)

 

Yup, that old post gives insight. But sadly not much of an final answer ^^.

But it's good to know.

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On 6/19/2018 at 10:18 AM, boots_1588 said:

Ya that makes sense.

"In addition, these threads will close since you are replying to it way after it has been deemed dead." Ok but why is it that this isn't already closed

1

Threads don't automatically lock after a set amount of time, I believe some forum software does do this but not IvC.

On 6/19/2018 at 9:58 AM, boots_1588 said:

some people want to pay once and be able to play whenever as long as they want without having to worry about cutting coffee or something out of thier life. 

1

I like paying only once for a video game, then I get to keep it forever just so long as the disk still functions and the console can still read.

 

If this is something you are concerned about, however, some people are suggesting we are only one or two generations away from stream-only games where you don't own the game, just the hardware it runs on. This recent article might prove an interesting read.

On 6/19/2018 at 1:43 PM, Sofernius said:

- Free Beta Keys. Game is nearly finished and people can take a look, 

1

We're still in pre-alpha, far from finished, unless you implied something different?

On 6/25/2018 at 9:45 AM, Arcangle003 said:

This is an amazing feature and that makes the game not just an outstanding example of an outrageously great game but available to many more than just the regular crowds.  This game I would suggest for all of my family and friends to play.

Did you quote my e n t i r e post just for this? :o

 

Please delete that quote mate, yikes.

 

If anybody has any other ideas on what small things they could alter in their life to pay for a DAC, ping me and I'll add it to the OP! o/

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