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unown006

Should automated static defences be added to duel universe?

Should automated static defences be added to duel universe? a means to a log off deffense system  

100 members have voted

  1. 1. Should automated static defences be added to duel universe?

    • Yes they are needed to balance the game
      76
    • Yes but there more nice to have but not needed
      10
    • No this would make orgs op and citys unraidable
      6
    • No this wouldnt be good for the game in general
      8


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2 minutes ago, Felonu said:

I don't think that's the general opinion.  Some people seem to think that, but according to NQ force-fields are intended to protect items while players are offline.  Big organizations aren't going to need these defenses as much because they're likely to have people online more often, and better defensive abilities.

I have no idea what NQ have planned regarding the accessibility of force-fields, I was merely expressing what seems to be the most commonly held view I've seen on these forums in the last 6 months. If every 2-man base in DU is going to have a force-field, some people are going to be very unhappy.

 

NQ surprised me with the MSA announcement, there may indeed be yet more "surprises" in the future...

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Only people that can be very unhappy about it are cowards who are afraid of attacking manned bases. Those that can only succeed by abusing the fact that it's a game, and other people have real life outside of it.

 

IMO FFU should have proportional cost (both initial and maintenance) to the protected area.

Something like 1s of mining for day worth of 10m2 protection. So for 20m radius shield you need ~2 minutes of mining fuel per day. For 200m -> ~200 minutes.

It would still make bigger shields more economical, because protected volume rise to the power of 3, while cost to the power of 2.

 

There will be enough opportunities for unexpected attack: against ships, miners, explorers, fields (if they'll have realistic sizes shielding them won't be economical), ect.

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On 4/12/2018 at 8:25 PM, Caesares said:

An Org yes. A single person no.

Correct 

 

On 4/13/2018 at 1:04 PM, NanoDot said:

The REAL use for static defenses would be for those that cannot afford to build/buy and maintain a force-field bubble.

 

The general opinion is that those force-field bubbles are going to be out of reach of single players and small orgs, due to their cost. The same applies to TCU's (territory control units).

 

If an attacking force was strong enough to bring down the shield bubble, then any "automated defenses" you have deployed will most likely be no more effective than a speed-bump...

I think not as stated before you have TCU as first deffence (prevents mining and such) sheild bubble (single players and small orgs proboibly wont be able to obtain easly maintaing is another issue)Then you have static deffences like say a ION cannon 

Then you have phisical deffences walls... doors ceilings building and such 

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On 4/13/2018 at 4:20 PM, CalenLoki said:

Only people that can be very unhappy about it are cowards who are afraid of attacking manned bases. Those that can only succeed by abusing the fact that it's a game, and other people have real life outside of it.

 

IMO FFU should have proportional cost (both initial and maintenance) to the protected area.

Something like 1s of mining for day worth of 10m2 protection. So for 20m radius shield you need ~2 minutes of mining fuel per day. For 200m -> ~200 minutes.

It would still make bigger shields more economical, because protected volume rise to the power of 3, while cost to the power of 2.

 

There will be enough opportunities for unexpected attack: against ships, miners, explorers, fields (if they'll have realistic sizes shielding them won't be economical), ect.

This also depends on how force Fields will BE as there are 2 ways you can go about it 1 NQ I believe are going in this direction is you damage or enter a area that the force field is in and it prots for 24-48h and you have to maintain it (probably with energy) after that it goes down then you deal with inner physical and static deffences Now I purpose take the same thing but instead of a invulnerable time base force field I purpose a health bar way in a sense as you maintain a force feild with energy you also can incrses the size and health by pumping more energy into it thus buying more time overall. Side note whoever put spell checker in is a legend.

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Just now, unown006 said:

This also depends on how force Fields will BE as there are 2 ways you can go about it 1 NQ I believe are going in this direction is you damage or enter a area that the force field is in and it prots for 24-48h and you have to maintain it (probably with energy) after that it goes down then you deal with inner physical and static deffences Now I purpose take the same thing but instead of a invulnerable time base force field I purpose a health bar way in a sense as you maintain a force feild with energy you also can incrses the size and health by pumping more energy into it thus buying more time overall. Side note whoever put spell checker in is a legend.

I forgot to mention this would 2nd solve the issue of trolls and people could still suprise attack

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I think the point of shield is not to buy as much time as you can. It's simply way to let defenders get online. No matter if defenders are just two guys, and attackers have huge armada of battleships - they should still be given chance to try defending their possession.

 

So IMO it should work against surprise attacks (sometimes called night raids) - if you want those, target ships in the wilderness.

Luckily devs seems to go this way.

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2 hours ago, CalenLoki said:

I think the point of shield is not to buy as much time as you can. It's simply way to let defenders get online. No matter if defenders are just two guys, and attackers have huge armada of battleships - they should still be given chance to try defending their possession.

 

So IMO it should work against surprise attacks (sometimes called night raids) - if you want those, target ships in the wilderness.

Luckily devs seems to go this way.

either way buys time one just reqires more and is much harder to exploit

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16 hours ago, CalenLoki said:

How would you exploit it? I'm curious.

my general fear is you have your base hidden behind a forcefeild you make enemys with somone org pirates ect they send a scout to prot your sheild for the 24h-48h invurable duration sheilds goes down you noticed and are online wait a few hours over and over agin untill at sompoint you dont notice or cant get on to defend when your sheild drops and you dont think much of it after the 100+ time and instead you get a fleet at your door come knocking when they realize no defender is coming base gets shreded in my purposal you cant simply drop the sheild so easly as it would reqire a longer siege and I hope NQ will add a way to notify you when your shield gets hit or drops 

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4 hours ago, unown006 said:

my general fear is you have your base hidden behind a forcefeild you make enemys with somone org pirates ect they send a scout to prot your sheild for the 24h-48h invurable duration sheilds goes down you noticed and are online wait a few hours over and over agin untill at sompoint you dont notice or cant get on to defend when your sheild drops and you dont think much of it after the 100+ time and instead you get a fleet at your door come knocking when they realize no defender is coming base gets shreded in my purposal you cant simply drop the sheild so easly as it would reqire a longer siege and I hope NQ will add a way to notify you when your shield gets hit or drops 

They already have, NQ have planed for a system that auto send message to your email or something that can contact you when your base get attack or your shield have down and get 24 - 48 hour of bubble protection.

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5 hours ago, unown006 said:

my general fear is you have your base hidden behind a forcefeild you make enemys with somone org pirates ect they send a scout to prot your sheild for the 24h-48h invurable duration sheilds goes down you noticed and are online wait a few hours over and over agin untill at sompoint you dont notice or cant get on to defend when your sheild drops and you dont think much of it after the 100+ time and instead you get a fleet at your door come knocking when they realize no defender is coming base gets shreded in my purposal you cant simply drop the sheild so easly as it would reqire a longer siege and I hope NQ will add a way to notify you when your shield gets hit or drops 

Do some reading about how these "base shields" work in EVE, DU's implementation will probably be similar.

 

In EVE, a "scout" with a popgun cannot put a base shield into reinforced mode. It requires a battle fleet to do that. If that wasn't the case, all the base shields in EVE would probably be in reinforced mode permanently, lol

 

So you won't be getting spammed with warning emails, because the effort required to drop that base shield is so great that nobody is going to do it by themselves for the "lulz".

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6 hours ago, unown006 said:

my general fear is you have your base hidden behind a forcefeild you make enemys with somone org pirates ect they send a scout to prot your sheild for the 24h-48h invurable duration sheilds goes down you noticed and are online wait a few hours over and over agin untill at sompoint you dont notice or cant get on to defend when your sheild drops and you dont think much of it after the 100+ time and instead you get a fleet at your door come knocking when they realize no defender is coming base gets shreded in my purposal you cant simply drop the sheild so easly as it would reqire a longer siege and I hope NQ will add a way to notify you when your shield gets hit or drops 

 

1 hour ago, NanoDot said:

Do some reading about how these "base shields" work in EVE, DU's implementation will probably be similar.

 

In EVE, a "scout" with a popgun cannot put a base shield into reinforced mode. It requires a battle fleet to do that. If that wasn't the case, all the base shields in EVE would probably be in reinforced mode permanently, lol

 

So you won't be getting spammed with warning emails, because the effort required to drop that base shield is so great that nobody is going to do it by themselves for the "lulz".

what he said.

 

BUT..... that's a viable tactic too in eve. Get your fleet together and put several territories into RF mode. Come back a day later and see who isn't there to defend and kill that one. That's perfectly fine

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As @NanoDot said - putting down shield costs your resources. Be it ammo or special device meant only for putting down shields (up to NQ). So spamming is possible, but you need to calculate if it's really worth it. With bigger shields costing more to put down of course.

 

Also IMO if shield goes down, and nobody attacks, It should go back up quite quickly. Half hour without any gunfire? Then battle is over.

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I'm against fixed timers tbh - allow players to set some kind of "invulnerability fuel" for the shield which can range from minimum 12h up to 24h. The moment the shield goes into invul - show that time to the attackers too.

 

That way every org can time this invul-period to always nearly match their prime time. This would be better than just a static 24h timer imho

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10 hours ago, ShioriStein said:

They already have, NQ have planed for a system that auto send message to your email or something that can contact you when your base get attack or your shield have down and get 24 - 48 hour of bubble protection.

The more you know the better you are off

 

8 hours ago, Lethys said:

 

what he said.

 

BUT..... that's a viable tactic too in eve. Get your fleet together and put several territories into RF mode. Come back a day later and see who isn't there to defend and kill that one. That's perfectly fine

I bet companys will avertise for it 

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9 hours ago, NanoDot said:

Do some reading about how these "base shields" work in EVE, DU's implementation will probably be similar.

 

In EVE, a "scout" with a popgun cannot put a base shield into reinforced mode. It requires a battle fleet to do that. If that wasn't the case, all the base shields in EVE would probably be in reinforced mode permanently, lol

 

So you won't be getting spammed with warning emails, because the effort required to drop that base shield is so great that nobody is going to do it by themselves for the "lulz".

My biggest fear is only if it can get exploited if not then  I would be fine with it

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13 hours ago, Lethys said:

I'm against fixed timers tbh - allow players to set some kind of "invulnerability fuel" for the shield which can range from minimum 12h up to 24h. The moment the shield goes into invul - show that time to the attackers too.

 

That way every org can time this invul-period to always nearly match their prime time. This would be better than just a static 24h timer imho

I got impression that those "24-48" is available range, and defenders can set the time between those. So they can choose when they wan't the battle. Unlike attackers, they can't just retreat without looses if the time doesn't fit their schedule.

 

And attackers should be informed when it'll start at least 12 hours before battle. Just so they can get online in time too.

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6 hours ago, CalenLoki said:

I got impression that those "24-48" is available range, and defenders can set the time between those. So they can choose when they wan't the battle. Unlike attackers, they can't just retreat without looses if the time doesn't fit their schedule.

 

And attackers should be informed when it'll start at least 12 hours before battle. Just so they can get online in time too.

I'd have to rewatch the speech of jc, but I'm pretty sure it's meant as "24h or 48h". 

Since this is only the First rough idea, it'll change anyway 5 times until release

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6 minutes ago, unown006 said:

What you lose with that systym is the element of surprise

Pretty sure the group being attacked will be surprised....  :D

 

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6 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:

Pretty sure the group being attacked will be surprised....  :D

 

with a 24h-48h heads up ? It would be pretty hard to be surprised at that

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4 minutes ago, unown006 said:

with a 24h-48h heads up ? It would be pretty hard to be surprised at that

Pretty sure having your defence sheild pulled down into reinforcement mode would be a shock/surprise no matter what the engagement timer is set to  ;)

 

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3 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:

Pretty sure having your defence sheild pulled down into reinforcement mode would be a shock/surprise no matter what the engagement timer is set to  ;)

 

As you watch it happen? I think not its the same as you lock your door and expect no one to come inside however your creative sibiling had other ideas so as you did whatever they slowly unhinged your door and by the last one you are bound to notice before the door comes crashing down (a bit extreme and odd but it works)

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58 minutes ago, unown006 said:

What you lose with that systym is the element of surprise

no you don't, that's why there would be a (balanced) hacking system - the heads up for attacks is neccessary in a MMO.

 

If you want to surprise the enemy - go for stealth and hacks. But ofc, you don't want hacking to be op either (it's not fun if you can hack something in 5min what took 5 months to build)

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3 minutes ago, Lethys said:

no you don't, that's why there would be a (balanced) hacking system - the heads up for attacks is neccessary in a MMO.

 

If you want to surprise the enemy - go for stealth and hacks. But ofc, you don't want hacking to be op either (it's not fun if you can hack something in 5min what took 5 months to build)

hacking is more a agressive silent take over unless it allows you to make it so a defender does not get notified and they have not logged in or enterd the area (depends on if NQ has a log similar to arks tribe log) but if not you still lose your surprise as for aggressive silent hacking that depends on how NQ balances the defender as it could be you so much as look at a firewall you get locked out the defender knows your exact location and has been notified or it could be more relaxed we simply don"t know yet sadly

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