Jump to content
NQ-Nyzaltar

[DevBlog Feedback] Our thoughts on Territory Protection Mechanics

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Warden said:

You don't solely have to look at "static" documents, on another note. 

 

I hear various players here have some professional background or relation to city planning and comparable areas of expertise. 

Sounds good... that said I wonder what will be considered functional and decorative? I guess we'll have to see. I hope we'll see both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

maybe if the force feald sent out a distress call to the ark ship so that people could pick up a automated defence contract for people who want to play the role as the good guy for a reward and salvage rights of the battle

some zones will be more profitable then others and I'm sure the ark will depend on some of  them to maintain function.

 

even a war contract could work, or some type of sheald hacking system that would make it posable for attackers to bypass shealds arfter a period of time if the sheald is low and with a automated defence contract sent and if collected a defender could automatically bypass shealds for defence to make a equal number of attackers and defenders for a fair fight

 

the credit and salvage reward gained from the automated defence contract would have to have appealing rewards for the players who spend all there skill line into combat but want to play as the good guy but have no skills in large scale mining, maybe they could gain minning rights to use there basic minning tool in the zone they defend or the owner have prespecified  rewards.

 

taking a territory unit from somone seems to easy compared to 1 person trying to find friends to help defend against 100 or even 1000 people with automated defence contracts I can  see equal 100 vs 100 battles happen with in a hacked shealded space

 

people like blowing things up and stealing and others like defending. with this system. I  see a way for a merc for hire to find work and for the player who only plays on a weekend or arfter work have a way of real defence. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why have an automated system when DU is player driven and they should organize this themselves? There's no need for a system there provided by NQ. If your tile gets attacked, then just batphone your friends. As this is only possible in UAs anyway, people have friends there, otherwise they won't live there for long

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well after the force shield down and timer begin ( safe force shield ) you will have time to prepare for the battle. You can strength your base, call friend, hire people or do anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lethys said:

Why have an automated system when DU is player driven and they should organize this themselves? There's no need for a system there provided by NQ. If your tile gets attacked, then just batphone your friends. As this is only possible in UAs anyway, people have friends there, otherwise they won't live there for long

well I guess it would take away the stress of finding help  by the individual and you would get less rage quits. I myself would rather log on and check a notice board generated by a automated distress/defence board and know ill be finding a fight to help defend some small tribe of 30 players with a minimum of 2 active players online at anyone time  with in 1 hour of battle and 1 hour of logging on I could be on the defence with instant action and equal odds.

otherwise I would just be left in the dark not knowing when and where the battles will be and would have to turn to forums scrolling threw 100s of crys for help reading every one of them for times places it would be to time consuming. with out some system like I stated you would have one unstoppable faction owning everything with in a year and you would have people wanting to play the good guy not knowing where to do pvp and not knowing where the fights are

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ShioriStein said:

Well after the force shield down and timer begin ( safe force shield ) you will have time to prepare for the battle. You can strength your base, call friend, hire people or do anything.

as it stands at the moment its easyer to roam as a large group being a pirate. but harder almost imposable to call for help or look for a defending fight. I want to be helping anyone who needs help when I log on and know where I can go to help defend with equal odds.

 

knowing where I can go as a defender of a territory from a automated distress mission board would be nice way to find the action whenever I log in and fly with likeminded people

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lethys said:

Why have an automated system when DU is player driven and they should organize this themselves? There's no need for a system there provided by NQ. If your tile gets attacked, then just batphone your friends. As this is only possible in UAs anyway, people have friends there, otherwise they won't live there for long

In games played 24/7 with players being in different time zones there needs to be a consideration in the game for this. Throwing everything on 'work it out among yourselves' is IMO extremely shortsighted and will only promote an advantage for biggest organizations. NQ must provide a mechanism which, while fair and balanced, allows for a longer response time to attacks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is already a plan for force field units that will provide protection outside of safe zones.  These will allow protection for at least 24 hours before needing personnel in place for defense.  We don't know what exactly will be able to be protected by these protection bubbles, but if the item you want to protect is located inside one you will have time to notify/post your need for help.  Just be careful that your posts aren't answered by the enemy trying to  infiltrate your base with your own invitation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Proteus said:

well I guess it would take away the stress of finding help  by the individual and you would get less rage quits. I myself would rather log on and check a notice board generated by a automated distress/defence board and know ill be finding a fight to help defend some small tribe of 30 players with a minimum of 2 active players online at anyone time  with in 1 hour of battle and 1 hour of logging on I could be on the defence with instant action and equal odds.

otherwise I would just be left in the dark not knowing when and where the battles will be and would have to turn to forums scrolling threw 100s of crys for help reading every one of them for times places it would be to time consuming. with out some system like I stated you would have one unstoppable faction owning everything with in a year and you would have people wanting to play the good guy not knowing where to do pvp and not knowing where the fights are

Well then I guess in a game like DU, with players running everything, there would be ppl who organize that amd collect all the cries. That's emergent gameplay, done by players and not some static mechanic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Lethys said:

What felonu said. 

 

24-48h is enough time to react to attacks.

 

A 24 hour timer would be good enough IMO. While allowing for a delayed response is basically a requirement, if you are unable to get that in place within 24 hours you're 'playing it wrong' ;) 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Felonu said:

There is already a plan for force field units that will provide protection outside of safe zones.  These will allow protection for at least 24 hours before needing personnel in place for defense.  We don't know what exactly will be able to be protected by these protection bubbles, but if the item you want to protect is located inside one you will have time to notify/post your need for help.  Just be careful that your posts aren't answered by the enemy trying to  infiltrate your base with your own invitation.

that's why I think a in game mechanism would work where the lowered shields are linked to a mercenary notice board at the ark or even inside your ship. but yes like you said friends of the enemy could join on the defending side so there could be a mechanic where players from the same faction couldn't join as a defender. also there could be a instance where the defending owner could choose his mercenary's from who has applied and there history at defending. imagine you and ten work mates all work 5 days a week and play together on a week end but get attacked while your all at work.  a distress notice board  / mercenary for hire board would kind of be the same as the market system instead of buying items you would be looking for defence jobs or a automated way of asking for help

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Lethys said:

Well then I guess in a game like DU, with players running everything, there would be ppl who organize that amd collect all the cries. That's emergent gameplay, done by players and not some static mechanic

then I would call the market a static mechanic also and will trade be on forums also I wouldn't see that working it would make it even more easier for pirates and frustrating for a mining skilled piolet in both cases

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Lethys said:

What felonu said. 

 

24-48h is enough time to react to attacks.

12 school student all own a base and get attacked at 10am on a Monday morning should be able to choose from applicants from a in game mechanic not just some random forum vice versa with people looking for work as a defender

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Proteus said:

12 school student all own a base and get attacked at 10am on a Monday morning should be able to choose from applicants from a in game mechanic not just some random forum vice versa with people looking for work as a defender

I dont think there should be any in game notification service as that to is open for abuse by pirates etc to attack/loot sites that are about to become vulnerable.

 

The 12 kids should have other contacts in game to call on and/or hire a merc group to help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Proteus said:

then I would call the market a static mechanic also and will trade be on forums also I wouldn't see that working it would make it even more easier for pirates and frustrating for a mining skilled piolet in both cases

What? That doesn't make any sense. A predefined game mechanic sometimes is needed amd vital (like markets) and sometimes obsolete (like your idea).

 

2 hours ago, Proteus said:

12 school student all own a base and get attacked at 10am on a Monday morning should be able to choose from applicants from a in game mechanic not just some random forum vice versa with people looking for work as a defender

If they get attacked on monday 10am then the shield will be down at tuesday 10am, earliest. Better organize a fleet and friends on monday evening. But do it yourself not via some arbitrary, easy mode, non social mechanic. 

Talk to ppl, get to know ppl and be social. Thats what du is about

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Proteus said:

12 school student all own a base and get attacked at 10am on a Monday morning should be able to choose from applicants from a in game mechanic not just some random forum vice versa with people looking for work as a defender

That kindof defeats the whole purpose of the protection shields systems. And as a former student, I can tell you that each of those 12 students, can and does have more than just themselves as friends... if they get attacked, they have exactly 24-48hrs to come up with a plan, notify other organizations members or friends who play or take actions themselves. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Lethys said:

What? That doesn't make any sense. A predefined game mechanic sometimes is needed amd vital (like markets) and sometimes obsolete (like your idea).

 

If they get attacked on monday 10am then the shield will be down at tuesday 10am, earliest. Better organize a fleet and friends on monday evening. But do it yourself not via some arbitrary, easy mode, non social mechanic. 

Talk to ppl, get to know ppl and be social. Thats what du is about

 

But Lethys.... Band Practice... and Football tryouts!!! you can't quit those :o:) :D

 

 

Cheers,
Comrademoco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Lethys said:

What felonu said. 

 

24-48h is enough time to react to attacks.

Honestly after giving this subject time to think about it, its a perfect amount of time to react to a hacking unit placed on your territory unit but still would like to see some kind of Distress Notice Board that the owner could accept help from who he chooses with a glance of there Battle History and skill set and  if he never sees it first in first served

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is up to the player to do it, you have 24 - 48h to recruit merc or anyone to help you.

Also from what i hear NQ is plan for something called "Emergency" system mean if you got attack, system will send mail to your email about the attack so you can get in ASAP.

But i think it wont allow you to auto recruit people.

So all you have to do is inform the people or just go to some board and ask for help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that Earth time zones have to be taken into account and that auto defences are powerful enough to stop pretty much all attacks at times unsuitable for whatever defender. However, powerful 'night' attacks will weaken defenses considerably and require repairs the next 'day'. In this way an attacker may have lower numbers by possibly being forced to fight each 'deciding fight' at a bad time from its point of view, but can much weaken the defense systems beforehand too.

My thinking is that shields etc should be weaker while they are being repaired, so that a defending force has to be tactical about either repairing or going outside the shields to fight the enemy directly at the time of day which suits them more.

 

It might be that the enemy backs off and hides when its players are more likely to be offline and the defenders need to decide whether to try and find the enemy or simply repair up again, but might be slowly losing supplies in doing so.

 

To make things clearer, maybe the 24 hr cycle of each territory should be shown to attackers as data which can easily be 'hacked' (intended to be hacked). Obviously the owner can set when autodefenses are maxed, but only has limited scope for doing so.

 

I like ideas around having enough time to summon help, but would prefer to see autodefense mechanisms powerful enough to ward off attacks to varying degrees depending on when the attacks are. I have experienced that certain times of the year, especially Bank Holidays, become used for surprise attacks, and this is very frustrating when you 'know' in rl that your virtual territories are in particular danger but there is little extra you can do about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Static turrets will be much weaker when in auto mode, quite rightfully so imho. 

 

If you live in UA and want the benefits from earning more money, then you should live with the risks (being attacked and losing everything). So to me it makes just way more sense (risk vs. reward) that shields just save you for 24-48h and there may be some autoturrets (to defend against a few ships but no fleet). After that time the shield can be killed (which takes time again) and the base can be looted.

If this is too hard to do (attacking) then ppl will just play the system and earn quanta en mass. If it's too simple, it's a free for all gankfest and noone will want to live in UA. But to me, a system as described is perfectly fair

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Lethys said:

After that time the shield can be killed (which takes time again) and the base can be looted.

What's the purpose of that? Defenders don't need that extra time (they had enough to gather and prepare defences), so that's just waste of time for both sides (sitting and pounding at shields, rather than actually fighting). I'd say once timer is over, let the battle begin. Shooting at the shield should be pre-cooldown, so you can't initiate it without enough firepower.

 


Regarding recruiting mercenary defenders - it could be simply possible for mecs to create advertisement of some sort using market system (with price, area of operation,  other details). Then those who need defence would just choose from available offers.

No automation, but also no need to browse external sites.

Or defenders can use quest system to create "help me!" quest for someone to take, and then manually accepting offers.

24-48h is quite a long time to do it manually.

 

 

So the process of capturing would be:

1. Bring enough firepower to trigger bubble countdown. DPS matters, so shooting for hours from your little fighter won'd do the trick. Stronger shields (cities) require more firepower to trigger.

2. Wait 24-48h until shields go down. You can do whatever during that time, no need to sit and keep firing

3. Fight your way to TU and destroy it. You have 3h from the last defenders death before bubble goes up again, so hurry up and keep fighting.

4. Build your own TU and shield (if you destroyed the one defenders placed) and protect them for 3h. Or just loot&leave.

 

It would be also nice to get notification whenever someone place TU within 5 hexes from your TU - to prevent sneaky assault camps. Someone can still build assault camps, but only if they're able to protect it in combat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, CalenLoki said:

What's the purpose of that? Defenders don't need that extra time (they had enough to gather and prepare defences), so that's just waste of time for both sides (sitting and pounding at shields, rather than actually fighting). I'd say once timer is over, let the battle begin. Shooting at the shield should be pre-cooldown, so you can't initiate it without enough firepower.

 


Regarding recruiting mercenary defenders - it could be simply possible for mecs to create advertisement of some sort using market system (with price, area of operation,  other details). Then those who need defence would just choose from available offers.

No automation, but also no need to browse external sites.

Or defenders can use quest system to create "help me!" quest for someone to take, and then manually accepting offers.

24-48h is quite a long time to do it manually.

 

 

So the process of capturing would be:

1. Bring enough firepower to trigger bubble countdown. DPS matters, so shooting for hours from your little fighter won'd do the trick. Stronger shields (cities) require more firepower to trigger.

2. Wait 24-48h until shields go down. You can do whatever during that time, no need to sit and keep firing

3. Fight your way to TU and destroy it. You have 3h from the last defenders death before bubble goes up again, so hurry up and keep fighting.

4. Build your own TU and shield (if you destroyed the one defenders placed) and protect them for 3h. Or just loot&leave.

 

It would be also nice to get notification whenever someone place TU within 5 hexes from your TU - to prevent sneaky assault camps. Someone can still build assault camps, but only if they're able to protect it in combat.

The system I described was an example from how it's done in EVE - so yes they can remove the grind by disabling the shield after a certain dmg threshold is reached.

 

What I still don't agree is the automated messege you suggested for a TU in a 5 hex radius - that's why you have scouts and that's why you need to secure your area. If you don't do that - and the enemy can set up a TU in time (which will most likely need time) - then it's your fault. And you should've paid your scouts more ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not about scouts, as you can see all claimed lands on the planetary map. (Source: dev diary August 2017) May be only alpha thing, but it makes sense to keep it that way. Claiming is something official.

It's about someone having to sit 24/7 in game and check the map. But in fact it may be useless information, as you'd have only very short time to react before claim goes active (3h? 6h if built near other base? even longer?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, CalenLoki said:

It's not about scouts, as you can see all claimed lands on the planetary map. (Source: dev diary August 2017) May be only alpha thing, but it makes sense to keep it that way. Claiming is something official.

It's about someone having to sit 24/7 in game and check the map. But in fact it may be useless information, as you'd have only very short time to react before claim goes active (3h? 6h if built near other base? even longer?)

you *might* see who claimed a tile AFTER they claimed it (and as you said, even that *may* change which I hope), not when they're in the process of claiming. So yes, this is all about scouts to know who does what in your vicinity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...