Real Rares.

[Majestic]

Something I loved from another MMO was the rares system.  Generate unique items to trade that will just keep going up in value that can either be fought for, won in events, sold, used as decor or just used for bragging rights etc.

 

Rare 'unique' ships for example... not ones that everyone just does the kessel run in a dozen or so Parsecs to get.  Like one thats been buried in a meteor for a while and found while mining or something.

 

[Anaximander]

Something I loved from another MMO was the rares system.  Generate unique items to trade that will just keep going up in value that can either be fought for, won in events, sold, used as decor or just used for bragging rights etc.

 

Rare 'unique' ships for example... not ones that everyone just does the kessel run in a dozen or so Parsecs to get.  Like one thats been buried in a meteor for a while and found while mining or something.

No. Please just... no. 

 

Minerals will be rare, therefore alloys will be rare, therefore two ships might be the exact same model, but one of them has a stronger armor around it. 

 

 

But notice, there's a thing called "mass", and the stronger a metal is, the heavier it is. Metaphors like titanium do not apply, as you can make something so much light before starting to lose material strength in the process.

 

 

So, your "rare" ships, won't be rare, they will be expensive. High prices make things rare.

 

 

If you mean Leg0ndariez and Ep1x, please, no, no. That's a WoW idea and it doesn't belog in DUAL, where you lose items upon death (partially at least).

 

 

You can't have "soul-bound" items in a sci-fi game, unless the devs add a science into souls, to which point, I DEMAND a pyromancer skill tree and spaceships firing shadowbolts.

[Majestic]

No definitely didnt mean anything from WoW lol. They also don't have to be soulbound either, a rare artifact found somewhere could open up all sorts of gameplay as people would either try to buy it, steal it or destroy it.  I'm talking about really rare too, not as in blue or purple, as only 1 or 2 existing at any time now or in the future.

[Anaximander]

No definitely didnt mean anything from WoW lol. They also don't have to be soulbound either, a rare artifact found somewhere could open up all sorts of gameplay as people would either try to buy it, steal it or destroy it.  I'm talking about really rare too, not as in blue or purple, as only 1 or 2 existing at any time now or in the future.

Well, that's interesting, but then again, planets that are money-pits due to the elements there will be that kind of thing in themsleves. If the Devs decide to make Gold as a mineral the way-to-go currency, if you were to find ap lanet rich in gold, or a system with so many golden asteroids, that syetem becomes the "rare" item you speak of. 

 

 

At least, in my vision, that sounds way more interesting than an arbitrary item. Remember, the players make the Lore after the game launches, not the devs

[LynkxDev]

I know what you mean Majestic, its just add a Random value to each variable at time of its creation,

so an crafted item would consider the material, crafter skill level and a random value that modify all the stats  so all items will be single and rare, and some will be stronger than others and so more valuable.

[Anaximander]

I know what you mean Majestic, its just add a Random value to each variable at time of its creation,

so an crafted item would consider the material, crafter skill level and a random value that modify all the stats  so all items will be single and rare, and some will be stronger than others and so more valuable.

Well... adding RNG to crafting is like adding loot boxes in the game. It becomes a roulette instead of an investment of materials for an approximate value on an item or any tinkering done by the crafter to the item's stats.

 

 

IMO, we shoud let the crafter decide how to make the items, not make it a random process, like let's say Lineage 2's Foundation system on crafting an item.

[LynkxDev]

Hello Captan,

When i say random value i don't mean it would suppress crafters decision ,

it suppose to be more than 20% of the crafter decision, and its very realistic and lore friendly
so considering a crafter chose to do an item with all stats with a value of  "100" some final prods can variate from "90" to "110" on its stats
this make that 2 players with same skill level rarely create exact same item just with a different visual skin

 

unless the item is made on a production line of an industry, that's only situation when all items are 99.99% equals.

 

 

(btw L2 fondation sistem is a 10% of chance to produce an item with "master work" bonus of +x', 

if 2 players craft a 'foundation sword' they weapons were exactly the same sword in the end, its the opposite of what i'm talking about !!)

[Anaximander]

Hello Captan,

 

When i say random value i don't mean it would suppress crafters decision ,

it suppose to be more than 20% of the crafter decision, and its very realistic and lore friendly

so considering a crafter chose to do an item with all stats with a value of  "100" some final prods can variate from "90" to "110" on its stats

this make that 2 players with same skill level rarely create exact same item just with a different visual skin

 

unless the item is made on a production line of an industry, that's only situation when all items are 99.99% equals.

 

 

(btw L2 fondation sistem is a 10% of chance to produce an item with "master work" bonus of +x', 

if 2 players craft a 'foundation sword' they weapons were exactly the same sword in the end, its the opposite of what i'm talking about !!)

No, when I'm talking of the Foundation system, I meant it's a lottery in a sense.

 

Since the game follows a linear system of upgrading, meaning it's a "wait till upgrade" system rather than a "grind that much XP to get a level", I think the devs won't opt for "randomness" on crafting, instead, having material quality be the only factor o nthe object being produced.

 

You want iron pellets for a portable coilgun? Sure, iron is as common as dirt in the universe (somewhat, if Cornflakes reads this, I know he'll bring up a chart with element rarity in the universe). But a crafter could make pellets of a different material, a much rarer metal that gives more damage to the weapon firing the pellets.

 

But, a weaponsmith, would fiddle ONLY with the different aspects of the weapon itself. Add more RPM, lose accuracy. Add accuracy, lose RPM. Something realistic in a way. The game might be tab-targeting, but we don't have to use old-school MMO tropes to make the crafting interesting and not something chore-like.

 

But that's me, I don't like lotteries. I like making my own luck by putting effort in it. 

 

Plus, lore-wise, we'll be using FutureSpace molecular 3D printers to make anything we want. I think they mastered FTL, they can't have messed up 3D printers

[CosmicDragon]

Couldn't having a percentage chance to craft a better item, remove the motivation of training up the skills required/ and not wanting to invest the time into improving the blueprint, which the devs have said is a mechanic in the game.

[ShadowLordAlpha]

It could but it could also be the way you improve so its random but getting a slightly better item makes you improve a bit more until your eventually always able to craft the slightly improved version. But it should defiantly have a direct connection to the skill system and not be just fully random

[Anaximander]

It could but it could also be the way you improve so its random but getting a slightly better item makes you improve a bit more until your eventually always able to craft the slightly improved version. But it should defiantly have a direct connection to the skill system and not be just fully random

You won't be able to build certain items anyway if you haven't unlocked them.

 

 

Except if you consider it "fun" to make 400 rifles you wanna sell to the market, have the best materials farmed for them that took you a month to farm and you end up with the Gods of RNG agaiinst you and you get items that SHOULD be great but have lesser stats than starter items.

 

 

I don't consider that "fun". Nobody does.

[ShadowLordAlpha]

You won't be able to build certain items anyway if you haven't unlocked them.

 

 

Except if you consider it "fun" to make 400 rifles you wanna sell to the market, have the best materials farmed for them that took you a month to farm and you end up with the Gods of RNG agaiinst you and you get items that SHOULD be great but have lesser stats than starter items.

 

 

I don't consider that "fun". Nobody does.

 

Your going to have to make like 400 rifles anyway to get the skill up so there may as well be small chance of crafting a weapon that is slightly better (and by slightly i mean less than if at full skill unless you are at full skill or nearly at full) also it wouldn't have less stats than the starter item you would only be able to get a bonus not a detriment to the weapon and like I said it would be very small.

 

and its to add spice to a grind so you should very rarely get the slightly boosted item not always. It adds a little bit of spice to something that you would be doing anyway. It makes craft grinding less boring in that you can get things with slightly different stats at low levels but its less useful the higher level you are.

[Anaximander]

Your going to have to make like 400 rifles anyway to get the skill up so there may as well be small chance of crafting a weapon that is slightly better (and by slightly i mean less than if at full skill unless you are at full skill or nearly at full) also it wouldn't have less stats than the starter item you would only be able to get a bonus not a detriment to the weapon and like I said it would be very small.

 

and its to add spice to a grind so you should very rarely get the slightly boosted item not always. It adds a little bit of spice to something that you would be doing anyway. It makes craft grinding less boring in that you can get things with slightly different stats at low levels but its less useful the higher level you are.

Skills upgrade with a linear "EVE" system. You only need to "download" the skills lore-wise.

 

 

So yeah. No need for random stat generation,

[ShadowLordAlpha]

Skills upgrade with a linear "EVE" system. You only need to "download" the skills lore-wise.

 

 

So yeah. No need for random stat generation,

and now i think your talking about something totally different than what I was talking about

[Wilks Checkov]

As has been mentioned - I do not see "rares" or "legionaries" occurring in DU, it does not exactly fit with its style in the least. This is not just some normal instanced mmo based on player gear. 

[Vyz Ejstu]

"

The rare system does not fit with Dual Universe, except where elements like Kyrium are concerned. And even then, Kyrium can be mined, used or sold. Without doubt, materials made from Kyrium will be better in some regards. If you need "rare" ships, they will be crafted from the best materials, by the best minds and for the best pay.

 

"

[LynkxDev]

the problem with no random values involved, is that all crafted items will be exactly the same, 
after some game time when all mats will be available in the market 

and all crafters maxed their skills

all crafted items will have the same stats that only different looking 

 

take a look on ESO craft system, they tried to do a different and only skill and mat based system where take 6 months to master a skill,

but...

after 1 year of game play no one buys nothing from crafters on the market simply because all guilds can craft the same items,

I craft lots of free stuff since no one buys any more. There is no market if all players cam max their craft skills with no random values involved

[Anaximander]

the problem with no random values involved, is that all crafted items will be exactly the same, 

after some game time when all mats will be available in the market 

and all crafters maxed their skills

all crafted items will have the same stats that only different looking 

 

take a look on ESO craft system, they tried to do a different and only skill and mat based system where take 6 months to master a skill,

but...

after 1 year of game play no one buys nothing from crafters on the market simply because all guilds can craft the same items,

I craft lots of free stuff since no one buys any more. There is no market if all players cam max their craft skills with no random values involved

Then ask for a skillpoints cap, not a random number generator. 

 

Plus, not all alliances will have free access on veins of certain minerals to make the best armors or guns or ammo. That's where the market's at. Minerals, or exploring to find new planets and sell them, so people can build bigger and taller cities. Then you got fleets that are destroyed and/or damaged and need repair of a certain alloy. 

 

 

Just because you can craft something that doesn't mean people will have access to the minerals needed to make that something the best way possible.

 

 

Thinks like rhenium are rare, in fact, very rare. The rarity of a mineral will determine how good an item is, as well as its pricing. Remember, items can be destroyed from use and they CAN be dropped upon death (which is random as the devs explained of which item will drop).

 

 

The market doesn't have to be cross faction, internal markets need to work as well inside a faction. Your guys can build houses for example or really neat mossaics, others can build weapons and have focused that. You trade with those guys in your faction and they trade with you for yours.

 

 

DUAL is not a theme-park MMO like ESO, which is itself a WoW clone. It's a sandbox. In sandbox games, there's  no such thing as "bestest" item. Everything is meant to be lost at one point or another.

 

 

So, let the rarity of the minerals be the sign of quality, not RNG.

[ShadowLordAlpha]

Then ask for a skillpoints cap, not a random number generator. 

 

Plus, not all alliances will have free access on veins of certain minerals to make the best armors or guns or ammo. That's where the market's at. Minerals, or exploring to find new planets and sell them, so people can build bigger and taller cities. Then you got fleets that are destroyed and/or damaged and need repair of a certain alloy. 

 

 

Just because you can craft something that doesn't mean people will have access to the minerals needed to make that something the best way possible.

 

 

Thinks like rhenium are rare, in fact, very rare. The rarity of a mineral will determine how good an item is, as well as its pricing. Remember, items can be destroyed from use and they CAN be dropped upon death (which is random as the devs explained of which item will drop).

 

 

The market doesn't have to be cross faction, internal markets need to work as well inside a faction. Your guys can build houses for example or really neat mossaics, others can build weapons and have focused that. You trade with those guys in your faction and they trade with you for yours.

 

 

DUAL is not a theme-park MMO like ESO, which is itself a WoW clone. It's a sandbox. In sandbox games, there's  no such thing as "bestest" item. Everything is meant to be lost at one point or another.

 

 

So, let the rarity of the minerals be the sign of quality, not RNG.

There is no real limit to the universe so give it time and nothing is limited just slightly harder to find so his point still stands

[Anaximander]

There is no real limit to the universe so give it time and nothing is limited just slightly harder to find so his point still stands

Well, that is true, but planets have limit on how deep can be mined and the algorithm behind the generation of planets can dictate how much of said mineral exists on that planet, or the system as a whole. The Devs wouldn't miss that kind of gamebreaking aspect in the algorithm I think. 

 

Unless some faction starts stocking on armors and minerals in case of an emergency. Then, Wars will be epic and even higher in cost.

 

[LynkxDev]

if game succeed and have about 10K player on, there will be no such thing as rare mat, or better crafter than the other,

it will become ESO like system, where i worked for 6 months to MAX  ALL my crafts thinking "i will play as a great scavenger/crafter"
just to discover all guilds have some guys exactly as capable as myself and so much players mining look for money in the market that after some time of game all you need is 10 minutes searching the local or guild stores (that are not even global) and find the mats you need to do what ever you want, and that will be exactly the same stats of all others maxed skilled crafters, with a different skin,

 

i hope you can understand that is what i don't want on this game

[Anaximander]

if game succeed and have about 10K player on, there will be no such thing as rare mat, or better crafter than the other,

it will become ESO like system, where i worked for 6 months to MAX  ALL my crafts thinking "i will play as a great scavenger/crafter"

just to discover all guilds have some guys exactly as capable as myself and so much players mining look for money in the market that after some time of game all you need is 10 minutes searching the local or guild stores (that are not even global) and find the mats you need to do what ever you want, and that will be exactly the same stats of all others maxed skilled crafters, with a different skin,

 

i hope you can understand that is what i don't want on this game

Yes, nobody wants that for the game, but in DUAL, you can't be a crafter and a soldier. You can be one of those two things. And you know that most people will be soldiers, fighter pilots, ship drivers, instead of industrialists. Sure, you could craft very BASIC items, but you wouldn't be able to max out EVERY skill in the game. That would make new players go like "oh, screw this game, the guy playing for two years is Iron Man, a billionaire, genious, playboy, philanthropist, engineer, fighter pilot, tank operator, doctor, industrialist, ballerina, cook". If EVERYONE could be EVERYTHING, the game would die within a year. Nobody wants that either.

 

 

And again, I've explained to you, the market-place will be for materials, fancy ships and blueprints, since items and ships are destroyed with time, the game doesn't have this whole "loot-whoring" system, with flashy weapon meshes that are unique and stroke your e-peen

 

 

Even if crafters are "in the house" guild-wise, the material flow won't be. Because of many many reasons, like, people treating miners like second-class citizens in games, or because mining is not the "funniest" gameplay in the world and very few actively go for it. And you know that is true. 

 

In fact, miners SHOULD have their own dedicated skill tree to make them an ACTUAL class / job in the game with their own ship designs to cater to their needs, instead of a really big cargo hauler they call their "mining" ship.

 

[Majestic]

@LynkxDev  This is kind of what I'm getting at, the rare I'm talking about wouldn't so much be a crafting mat or weapon component, that definition of 'rare' came from games such as Wow along with uncommon etc.  I'm suggesting a rare in its literal form, as in if you found this item/artifact/ship/ornament/skin whatever, that one would be the only one like it to exist ever. As such it would become a valuable trading asset or center piece for a player/guild to fight over or a Trophy.  As the game grows older some of the items would become treasures, others that players have in their possesion and havent logged on for ages with could become myth.

 

The idea is from another MMO, an early one.  I know people don't like to steal ideas and want everything new, but at some point your going to be using alot of the same ideas, I am suggesting using one of the ideas that worked well and I enjoyed, it may not be for everyone of course but as long as the items don't give you an in game combat advantage over other players then you could choose to take them or leave them.  All they would need to do is to get your attention and they become desirable.

 

Of course there would need to be some way of displaying the item to other players, either in game or by way of some forum league table. 

 

This is just an idea to flesh out the game. 

[Anaximander]

@LynkxDev  This is kind of what I'm getting at, the rare I'm talking about wouldn't so much be a crafting mat or weapon component, that definition of 'rare' came from games such as Wow along with uncommon etc.  I'm suggesting a rare in its literal form, as in if you found this item/artifact/ship/ornament/skin whatever, that one would be the only one like it to exist ever. As such it would become a valuable trading asset or center piece for a player/guild to fight over or a Trophy.  As the game grows older some of the items would become treasures, others that players have in their possesion and havent logged on for ages with could become myth.

 

The idea is from another MMO, an early one.  I know people don't like to steal ideas and want everything new, but at some point your going to be using alot of the same ideas, I am suggesting using one of the ideas that worked well and I enjoyed, it may not be for everyone of course but as long as the items don't give you an in game combat advantage over other players then you could choose to take them or leave them.  All they would need to do is to get your attention and they become desirable.

 

Of course there would need to be some way of displaying the item to other players, either in game or by way of some forum league table. 

 

This is just an idea to flesh out the game. 

So, you are asking for GearScores from WoW and Ep1x and Leg0ndaries, to rub your e-peen on other people? That would make people ragequit if they were to lose those items. This is NOT a WoW-clone, please don't ask for DUAL to be a WoW-clone or any other clone.

 

[Majestic]

Hmm, I'm not sure where your getting the gearscore and epix legendaries ideas from, I think your reading this post completely wrong. You mentioned WoW first in this post, I'm just replying trying to suggest an idea for some extra fun on top of what the game is.  I am talking about introducing random inanimate objects that serve no purpose other than to be a reward/trophy.  Some people like that sort of thing, if you don't then as it's an inanimate object you can choose to participate or not.  In an open world the more there is to do the better.

 

My influences are from before Wow I have no intention of suggesting any of its gameplay.