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Veln

Go to Jail!!!!

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I'd like to bring up in the interactive elements tutorial

at about 8:22, there's the force field element.

Whats stopping someone from making a trap, or jail, and keeping players in that area? If you get stuck there, what could you even do to get out? It seems like you'd have to either get killed or beg the owner to let you out.

I'd also be interested to see what the force fields can do when attached to a moving vehicle. What if you made a flying cage made out of force fields to capture people, and then drag them back to your base?

What do you think? Is this the new police system? Is this the new pirate ransom system? Or should this be balanced so people can't do it.

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/suicide

 

Holding a player against their will could be a breach of the T&C/EULA of the game. Could be seen as trolling/bullying to some extent, which would require NQ to intervene.

 

I know I would be pissed if I only had a few hours a day to play and somebody decided to hold me prisoner as part of their 'role-playing'.

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you always have to give players the chance to suicide - otherwise it's simple griefing.

 

So basically

- if you can destroy voxels/soil (even when NOT in your own territory tile), you can try to destroy your prison

- if you can destroy voxels/soil (even when NOT in your own territory tile), but your weapons are deactivated by some mechanic/element/whatever, then you can either kill yourself or (if you have valuable goods on person) pay the guy to let you free

- if you can't destroy voxels/soil on "enemy" territory, then you can either kill yourself or (if you have valuable goods on person) pay the guy to let you free

- If the player draws a "Get out of Jail" card, he may use it to get out of jail

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This seems to be the "hot iron" many games (or their devs, respectively) won't touch because it could annoy or "piss off players" whereas it is more normal in other games or game modes. 

 

If you also want to cover police aspects or elements of slavery this is must-have in my eyes however. The key is balanced mechanics. A potentially too hard system could be seen in the Minecraft civcraft server where players could be captured in a twilight dimension while their "soul" was bound to the overworld pearl. Problem: holding a player does not burn much "fuel" and to release a player you had to have the pearl. So what do people do? They capture someone and put the pearl in secure storage where others can hardly reach it. In short you could be held weeks, maybe a month or longer before you could consider appeals through a higher instance such as server admins as it was simply part of the server and game play. 

 

A more controlled system you see in Arma 3 or Space Station 13 where player police or security can put you into prison temporarily. These sentences were often limited, on a minute basis. At best you'd sit in it for 10 to 30 minutes depending on offense. 

 

What would I propose,  how could it work in DU? 

 

1) I would not mind an A3/SS13 like system with limited sentences that everyone should be able to live with as they are time capped, often through built-in timers. 

 

2) How this could be implemented or rather work in DU is a tougher question. If you have a general capture mechanic for players I sense abuse or indefinite holding if you can just put someone in a room or cell with no (easy) way out. And if the player has no way out on his or her own, either through tools or commands. 

 

At best i can currently see domestic prisons work that only work on player run tiles or faction owned tiles where you can place actual cell units (complete item given by devs) where you can place (misbehaving) players for a limited time. In the context of DU 10 minutes are a joke so it could be a bit more on average, but not exceeding 1 day or so. Or half a day. Or a quarter. A third. Fifth? You get the idea. As it is faction run you also do not have to go there if you don't like how they handle things on their turf like taxes or punishments. 

 

Binding this mechanic to faction controlled tiles (Alioth could also be excluded from this) prevents "griefing" all over while making things interesting on faction turf with some sort of local punishment system. 

 

At least, that is my ideal "solution" or compromise but you can bet we won't see prison mechanics. 

 

Because "hot iron". 

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The key on making a prison mechanic viable is for it to feel organic and not forced.

We require some attributes to include the captive's personal volition,at least in some extent.

A more effiecient way to promote this,is through "cryostatis teleport chambers"

 

We could programm them on a specific timer and usage fee.

When captives interact with them,they will be greeted with an example of the following message.

 

Enter Cryostasis -Teleporter for 30 mins and 50 Quanta fee?
Yes
No

 

If the prerequisite fee is  provided the chamber will activate leaving the prisoner in suspended animation.

And when the the timer expires,captives will then be telported in the Spawn Area safely along with their items.

By far a more civilized alternative than being forced to suicide.

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1 hour ago, Armedwithwings said:

The key on making a prison mechanic viable is for it to feel organic and not forced.

We require some attributes to include the captive's personal volition,at least in some extent.

A more effiecient way to promote this,is through "cryostatis teleport chambers"

 

We could programm them on a specific timer and usage fee.

When captives interact with them,they will be greeted with an example of the following message.

 

Enter Cryostasis -Teleporter for 30 mins and 50 Quanta fee?
Yes
No

 

If the prerequisite fee is  provided the chamber will activate leaving the prisoner in suspended animation.

And when the the timer expires,captives will then be telported in the Spawn Area safely along with their items.

By far a more civilized alternative than being forced to suicide.

But who gets to choose the price? If that's the method of handling the suicide mechanic, imo the price should be based on how much their inventory is worth, and the distance to the spawn. We want to make sure people can't exploit that to move goods around faster than they would be able to with a ship.

Personally I think normal "suicide and drop all your stuff" would be a sufficient game play solution for getting out of jail. Otherwise you can pay/beg them to let you go, or wait to get rescued and hope they don't get bored and kill you XD

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If some ones holding me prisoner for 1 day then that means I'm paying for something that I can't use, a full day of DU gameplay. That's just wrong in my eyes

 

If someone is misbehaving in a player built city then we don't need prison mechanics, they will be dealt with on the spot by either confrontation/resolution or death by the people involved or people running the city.

 

When it comes to subjects such as this we always seem to forget that DU is a game and not real life. We can't have every real life service in-game, it's just not possible.

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10 hours ago, Vellnn said:

But who gets to choose the price? If that's the method of handling the suicide mechanic, imo the price should be based on how much their inventory is worth, and the distance to the spawn. We want to make sure people can't exploit that to move goods around faster than they would be able to with a ship.

 

I'll be honest i didn't think about a possible exploit.

Good pointers all around,perhaps involving some penalty cargo loss like a quarter of the inventory items should do the trick.

Have the price of those confiscated goods funneled back directly into Dual Universe's market.

 

9 hours ago, Kael said:

If some ones holding me prisoner for 1 day then that means I'm paying for something that I can't use, a full day of DU gameplay. That's just wrong in my eyes

 

If someone is misbehaving in a player built city then we don't need prison mechanics, they will be dealt with on the spot by either confrontation/resolution or death by the people involved or people running the city.

 

When it comes to subjects such as this we always seem to forget that DU is a game and not real life. We can't have every real life service in-game, it's just not possible.

 

Well i see no problem if you choose to be held.

Supposedly if i had a full inventory of high end materials,i'd be glad to take my chances rather than risk lose everything.

 

DU is rather large so there needs to be some way to keep Order.

It would be highly "unproductive" if everyone went around shooting people on sight.

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58 minutes ago, Kael said:

If some ones holding me prisoner for 1 day then that means I'm paying for something that I can't use, a full day of DU gameplay. That's just wrong in my eyes

 

If someone is misbehaving in a player built city then we don't need prison mechanics, they will be dealt with on the spot by either confrontation/resolution or death by the people involved or people running the city.

 

When it comes to subjects such as this we always seem to forget that DU is a game and not real life. We can't have every real life service in-game, it's just not possible.

Well think of it this way, if you want to play, you can kill yourself and drop your stuff, which is what would happen if they just killed you anyway.

This isn't really a mandatory jail system like in Archeage, where going to jail means you can't do anything for 45 minutes even if you die (which imo is stupid). There arn't any mechanics implemented by NQ to make this work like a jail at all. In the original post I was just pointing out that using force field mechanics, you could trap players so they couldn't leave.

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I think there are sufficient ways to add a balanced limited jail system to empower factions. 

 

Before we kill potentially too much time on thoughts and debate, I wonder if NQ is intending something remotely comparable at all or not at all, or if it would now depend on the arguments. 

 

A few hours tops at a certain materialistic price for the "jailer" sounds reasonable to me if there might also be a weekly limit of jail time per user for that faction to prevent indefinite or very pronged holding. Give fixed rates and capped timers for compromise while potentially allowing suicide at the loss of all items. 

 

I'm theory no one forces you to interact with factions who have the ability to jail on their turf,or no one forces repeat interactions or stay there anyway after it goes South. 

 

Still,  I think we won't see hard coded jail systems, soft or not. Just saying,  I guess it could work. 

 

You know what still works? "Voluntary prisons". A what,  you ask? 

 

Simple.  What remains with no formal or implemented jail system, more or less? You have to ban people from services, entry and/or shoot them. If they want to redeem themselves and regain your favor you can offer jail times on your own terms, forced labor under supervision, etc. But this can't be forced or not much. I'd prefer soft built-in jail mechanics though. Just saying, though: prisons can or will still be useful depending on your faction or influence. On another note, prison mechanics or not,  no one forces you to just build tiny boring cells. You can create a whole hazard course, maze, riddle challenge, testing course or more to make it interesting or to shorten the time. 

 

PS: I hate typing on mobile. 

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The more I think about this, the more I like the idea of "voluntary prison sentences" that can work regardless of coded-in (or otherwise practical executions of this through work-arounds) jailing mechanics. 

 

While this usually only works if the "prisoner" has some incentive to go through with it on your terms, it would prevent their friends from trying to bust them out. As that would result in nothing or a reset of the prior actions such as being hunted or banned from entry or services. 

 

Less abstract: you did something bad and a faction does any of the following or a combination of these:

 

Ban you from services, add hefty custom fees to services, badmouth you, prevent or restrict entry, actively hunt you within their jurisdiction/borders or beyond, etc. 

 

If this becomes a nuisance to you,  you could redeem yourself through "prison sentences" and unique demands to get a (mostly) clean slate or new chance, reduced threat category, etc. 

 

Some could demand you stare at a wall for X time, others send you in a work camp, others might simply not chose those 'classic' punishments and demand that you bring them a certain sum of money or amount of resources. 

 

Just as idea for all you groups out there, prison mechanics or not. Ideally we also get to see limited "forced" prison mechanics under the right conditions on faction turf in my book. 

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On 22/11/2017 at 4:39 AM, CoreVamore said:

Option 42..... call your corp mates to bust u out..... tis divergent game  play after all :)

 

You best believe that if someone tried to 'imprison' me I'm calling in every last reinforcement and favour to destroy every single one of them involved.

 

And if any of them survive then a hefty bounty will be placed on their heads.

 

Diverge that!

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11 hours ago, Kael said:

You best believe that if someone tried to 'imprison' me I'm calling in every last reinforcement and favour to destroy every single one of them involved.

 

And if any of them survive then a hefty bounty will be placed on their heads.

 

Diverge that!

What if you technically deserve(d) it or if this attempt might be counter-productive?

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How would I deserve it? Who decides what is wrong and what is right?

 

My in-game laws say I can kill/loot anyone and/or thing on sight without needing a reason. Are you going against my laws? That makes you in the wrong, off to jail you go! :D

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30 minutes ago, Kael said:

How would I deserve it? Who decides what is wrong and what is right?

 

My in-game laws say I can kill/loot anyone and/or thing on sight without needing a reason. Are you going against my laws? That makes you in the wrong, off to jail you go! :D

Only you can answer "How would I deserve it" as this depends on your actions and the subjective wrongdoing you inflict upon others from their or a general POV.

 

The "house owner" defines the laws and regulations on any owned turf or even not-owned turf. Or regardless of formally owned turf or not if they can project a certain influence, force and enforcement in that area.

 

You will most likely see this happen or be a relevant aspect on claimed territory however, as it's usually the easiest or most obvious way where other entities (the owners) can define rules.

 

My initial point, with that in mind, is: Sometimes it might be better to go through a certain type of (still bearable) punishment for some law or rule infraction than try to start a long conflict you could lose or not benefit from in the long run :)

 

----

 

More simplified, mind what turf you are on as certain regulations can apply there and not following / breaking them could "justify" punishment X.

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2 hours ago, Warden said:

My initial point, with that in mind, is: Sometimes it might be better to go through a certain type of (still bearable) punishment for some law or rule infraction than try to start a long conflict you could lose or not benefit from in the long run :)

 

----

 

More simplified, mind what turf you are on as certain regulations can apply there and not following / breaking them could "justify" punishment X.

And your prisoner could have many more affiliations and power behind him/her and wipe said lawmakers from their tile to be free. Forced imprisonment can work both ways......  do you really want to take that risk?  ;)

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46 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:

And your prisoner could have many more affiliations and power behind him/her and wipe said lawmakers from their tile to be free. Forced imprisonment can work both ways......  do you really want to take that risk?  ;)

This could be possible, but can not always be guaranteed, especially if you break laws in a larger player nation, empire, state, whatever. Not everyone can snip their fingers and then or later bring a force of comparable size, and even then out of those players who could do so in theory, not all of those responding factions will risk a war if it can't be outright won - over a trivial matter such as, say, insults, speeding, whatever.

 

And if it can't be forced through game mechanics, it can still be severely suggested or suggestive through voluntary sentences or sentences that are tied to certain conditions, such as "If you want us to step sending people after you you have to ..."

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39 minutes ago, Warden said:

This could be possible, but can not always be guaranteed, especially if you break laws in a larger player nation, empire, state, whatever. Not everyone can snip their fingers and then or later bring a force of comparable size, and even then out of those players who could do so in theory, not all of those responding factions will risk a war if it can't be outright won - over a trivial matter such as, say, insults, speeding, whatever.

 

And if it can't be forced through game mechanics, it can still be severely suggested or suggestive through voluntary sentences or sentences that are tied to certain conditions, such as "If you want us to step sending people after you you have to ..."

lol still not sure what type of masochist is going to voluntarily get themselves locked up......

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9 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

lol still not sure what type of masochist is going to voluntarily get themselves locked up......

Those who deem it necessary.

 

If you did something that banned you from entry or services at a certain place or faction that you could need because many others go there for business or whatever, you might think twice about redeeming yourself.

 

Likewise, if you really annoyed a faction and they keep sending people after you, you might also consider going through certain punishments to make them stop, as listed earlier in my examples.

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