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I was wondering if it would be at all possible to make an alternate release (maybe some time after initial release) that is sort of like the structure of Minecraft, with single player survival and/or LAN co-op. I don't know much about online games, but I AM assuming that they take up a lot of space, which would be an issue, and it would probably require maximum hardware, but if it didn't hurt sales (assuming it's possible) then I would think it would at least be a good idea experimentally. If the answer is no, I am at the least anticipating some information regarding how exactly the game functions as an idea of why it wouldn't work. Thanks for any information!

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Hi RadFallout100 and welcome on the official Dual Universe forum.

 

No, there won't be any single player or LAN Mode, because it's not the vision of the game. The goal is to gather the whole community in the same game universe.

There are already many games enabling players to host their own server and build what they want (Minecraft, Space Engineers, Empyrion...) and Dual Universe aims to provide a different game experience. Private investors and backers have supported the game for the original vision, so no development time will be spent to deviate from this vision. This is one of the few topics that aren't opened to discussion.


Best Regards,

Nyzaltar.

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Will there be any technical releases that would allow a 3rd party creation of a single player without use of any funds? Kind of like how Bethesda encourages modding in it's releasing of the Creation Kit with each game. And if that 3rd party developer succeeded in creating a working single player version, then maybe you could give it a chance? Just so you know, I wouldn't be capable of doing this, I have little to no knowledge when it comes down to game development, though I am trying to learn with available modding tools and coding resources. All I'm really asking is 'is it possible' not so much as  'will you do it.'

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37 minutes ago, RadFallout100 said:

Will there be any technical releases that would allow a 3rd party creation of a single player without use of any funds? Kind of like how Bethesda encourages modding in it's releasing of the Creation Kit with each game. And if that 3rd party developer succeeded in creating a working single player version, then maybe you could give it a chance? Just so you know, I wouldn't be capable of doing this, I have little to no knowledge when it comes down to game development, though I am trying to learn with available modding tools and coding resources. All I'm really asking is 'is it possible' not so much as  'will you do it.'

 

 

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I was able to find three threads on this topic in pre-alpha, but I don't think that it has been discussed in a public location yet. The majority of forum users were not able to read those threads and aren't going to understand why offline isn't going to be a thing in DU, beyond what Nyzaltar has posted above.

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2 minutes ago, Shockeray said:

I was able to find three threads on this topic in pre-alpha, but I don't think that it has been discussed in a public location yet. The majority of forum users were not able to read those threads and aren't going to understand why offline isn't going to be a thing in DU.

Are those topics ever going to be released? Or is it going to be "top secret?"

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If I remember correctly it is literally not possible to have a single player adaptation without ton of work.  Even so it's just not part of the vision for the game.

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Just now, RadFallout100 said:

Are those topics ever going to be released? Or is it going to be "top secret?"

They aren't "top secret". But I don't think that NQ will ever have a reason to release a bunch of bug discussions about a version of the game that no longer exists. I would assume that they are just going to be archived.

 

It sounds to me like you are just trying to find something that NQ has done to complain about, but I may be wrong.

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2 minutes ago, Shockeray said:

They aren't "top secret". But I don't think that NQ will ever have a reason to release a bunch of bug discussions about a version of the game that no longer exists. I would assume that they are just going to be archived.

 

It sounds to me like you are just trying to find something that NQ has done to complain about, but I may be wrong.

Sounds to me like he just wants information as to why it's not possible to have a single player version.  I think that information would be nice for the public to have, as this question arises quite often. 

 

Right now we are just saying "because", which isn't always enough for everyone.

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I don't want to complain, I just wanted to see if it was possible, and maybe find out what a game like that would be like. I'm still waiting for the ultimate sandbox game, and this one seemed pretty cool, but space engineers is more my speed currently, since I don't really get into multiplayer games. The reason I don't get into multiplayer is that I usually fall behind in game progress, and in PVP situations I'm just not very good. Something that I would like to see in a future video game is something with auto generated humans and cities that can be interacted with, and other complex cencepts like that.

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The game was designed from the ground up starting with the networking engine, the client depends on the server to run. Even so far as when they demoed the game at various conferences, they had the client and server running on the same machine. 

Dual Universe is an MMO, expecting them to make a single player version would be akin to expecting Blizzard to release an offline version of World of Warcraft. 

 

If you're looking for those things in a game, Dual Universe is not going to be it. Dual Universe is an MMO. It will never be a single player game. 

 


"Private investors and backers have supported the game for the original vision, so no development time will be spent to deviate from this vision. This is one of the few topics that aren't opened to discussion." 

 

There doesn't need to be anything else said about the topic. It's not happening. 

 

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2 minutes ago, RadFallout100 said:

I don't want to complain, I just wanted to see if it was possible, and maybe find out what a game like that would be like. I'm still waiting for the ultimate sandbox game, and this one seemed pretty cool, but space engineers is more my speed currently, since I don't really get into multiplayer games. The reason I don't get into multiplayer is that I usually fall behind in game progress, and in PVP situations I'm just not very good. Something that I would like to see in a future video game is something with auto generated humans and cities that can be interacted with, and other complex cencepts like that.

Okay, sorry for misunderstanding. Dual Universe is aiming to be a quite different game, there are basically no NPCs and most likely everything that you ever run across, whether it be ship or building, is going to have been made and put there by another player. There are no NPC or dev-created cities and no quests in the normal sense (you can be hired by other players to do stuff). This is a community game in every sense of the term. While you could play solo by flying off into the void of space to find your own planet to play on, this is not going to be the norm.

And as far as single player, as the others have said, it's just not possible. All of the extremely heavy lifting done in the background of this game is managed by the server so that the only thing (for the most part) that your computer is having to do it view the game.

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Just now, RadFallout100 said:

I don't want to complain, I just wanted to see if it was possible, and maybe find out what a game like that would be like. I'm still waiting for the ultimate sandbox game, and this one seemed pretty cool, but space engineers is more my speed currently, since I don't really get into multiplayer games. The reason I don't get into multiplayer is that I usually fall behind in game progress, and in PVP situations I'm just not very good. Something that I would like to see in a future video game is something with auto generated humans and cities that can be interacted with, and other complex cencepts like that.

NQ is fair in not wanting support the vision that you seek, however, unfortunately it would also be impossible for a player to create a "mod" that would allow for single player.  The server tech behind DU is one of the things NQ has put the most effort in order to make DU unique.  It's unlikely that they'd just hand that over to anyone who wanted to use their own server for single player.  

 

Furthermore, the payment model doesn't really support single player, and I doubt single player would get a special payment option.  Have you ever heard of a single player game costing $15 a month?

 

On a brighter note, I have a feeling playing alone inside of DU will be much more viable than people seem to make it out to be.  Yes, you won't be creating cities or anything like that... but there's a spot for you inside of DU, and I hope you will still give it a try :)

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2 minutes ago, Hades said:

Right now we are just saying "because", which isn't always enough for everyone.

 
7 hours ago, NQ-Nyzaltar said:

it's not the vision of the game. The goal is to gather the whole community in the same game universe.

 

Single player is not a stated goal of the game and it's been this way per my knowledge since kickstarter over one year ago.

2 minutes ago, RadFallout100 said:

 The reason I don't get into multiplayer is that I usually fall behind in game progress, and in PVP situations I'm just not very good.

1

I'm not the best myself when it comes to PvP but I'm more the type that plays for fun and not necessarily for the win which, while it does add to the funness of the game, is not the point of me getting into the game. I play games to be entertained and to take a break from this thing that we call "real life" and I think I can safely say that the same would go for a great portion of the community that is currently testing, and those that will play in the future.

 

Also, if you never get into a multiplayer game on the basis that you'll fall behind, then what is the point of you even playing the game five years from now when you'll still be behind those of us that started on day one?

Yeah, there will be your competitive types seeing who can get the most skills the fastest, but they're just a part of the fabric that is woven into this game or any game for that matter. The real thing you should be asking yourself is "will I find enough value in this game to deem it worthy of my playtime?" and if you don't, maybe the game isn't for you like you had said, and there's nothing wrong with that.

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I intend to try it out, it seems like it's going to be a very ambitious and promising game. I have had a few positive experiences in multiplayer, mainly Roblox games where teams are almost mandatory and I've helped create functioning communities, and the satisfaction in that accomplishment is nearly indescribable. I just hope this game will draw in the more formal players of the gaming world so that the experience can be enjoyed by all.

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15 minutes ago, RadFallout100 said:

I don't want to complain, I just wanted to see if it was possible, and maybe find out what a game like that would be like. I'm still waiting for the ultimate sandbox game, and this one seemed pretty cool, but space engineers is more my speed currently, since I don't really get into multiplayer games. The reason I don't get into multiplayer is that I usually fall behind in game progress, and in PVP situations I'm just not very good. Something that I would like to see in a future video game is something with auto generated humans and cities that can be interacted with, and other complex cencepts like that.

This is the opposite direction that Dual Universe is taking. Humanoid NPCs and generated cities is what is being done in the likes of Star Citizen. In DU, players will create the cities and the only humanoids running around will be players.

 

DU is an MMO with emphasis on massive and multiplayer and online. While there is PvP, there is also a safe zone and a boat load of players that want to help keep you safe.

 

As for falling behind, skills will be trained when you are offline as well...there is no grinding to get skills up.

 

Ultimately, DU is a sandbox game with the only goals set for you are made by yourself.  Whatever you choose to DU, have fun :)

 

Edit: ninja'd x5 :D

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2 minutes ago, Kurock said:

This is the opposite direction that Dual Universe is taking. Humanoid NPCs and generated cities is what is being done in the likes of Star Citizen. In DU, players will create the cities and the only humanoids running around will be players.

 

DU is an MMO with emphasis on massive and multiplayer and online. While there is PvP, there is also a safe zone and a boat load of players that want to help keep you safe.

 

As for falling behind, skills will be trained when you are offline as well...there is no grinding to get skills up.

 

Ultimately, DU is a sandbox game with the only goals set for you are made by yourself.  Whatever you choose to DU, have fun :)

Nice pun there      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------^^^

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2 minutes ago, RadFallout100 said:

I intend to try it out, it seems like it's going to be a very ambitious and promising game. I have had a few positive experiences in multiplayer, mainly Roblox games where teams are almost mandatory and I've helped create functioning communities, and the satisfaction in that accomplishment is nearly indescribable. I just hope this game will draw in the more formal players of the gaming world so that the experience can be enjoyed by all.

 

Well, you already got one in me and we're still in pre-alpha. Give it enough time, they'll come.

 

Maybe consider looking through the organizations and joining up with some like-minded folks that seem to fit your ideals. If you're looking for commadere , you'll definitely find it in an org.

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Breaking away from game functionality, I absolutely HATE monthly payments. I'd rather make a one time payment of $5,000 than pay monthly fees. This is an area I have issues with, because there are so many quality services that I won't use because of subscription fees, like Netflix, other great games, software subscriptions such as security applications. I WOULD be willing to pay fees for a game like this, but any time I can pay once and be done, I will.

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In all honesty, if you would be interested in a single player game like DU, check out Space Engineers. In fact IMO Space Engineers is an excellent way to get some experience in building.

 

For a service based game such as DU there really is no way around monthly fees. That said, the game will allow you to put the effort in and buy your game time using in game currency. The backer packages included a good number of monthly playtime tokes or DACs as they are called for DU. I'd expect the coming supporter packages to offer something similar. For me, I have a gold and sapphire character with many years of 'free' playtime between them...

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2 minutes ago, RadFallout100 said:

Breaking away from game functionality, I absolutely HATE monthly payments. I'd rather make a one time payment of $5,000 than pay monthly fees. This is an area I have issues with, because there are so many quality services that I won't use because of subscription fees, like Netflix, other great games, software subscriptions such as security applications. I WOULD be willing to pay fees for a game like this, but any time I can pay once and be done, I will.

2

Well, earlier on there was a pledge (Ruby) where you could get a lifetime subscription for about one less zero than the value you stated. While that period is over now, you can still pay for the game subscription by doing enough things in the game to pay for your subscription. If you've played EVE online then you would already be familiar with this.

 

Frankly I don't like it either, but like I said earlier, "will I find enough value in this game to deem it worthy of my playtime?", just switch "playtime" with "money" and you'll have your answer.

 

It's kind of like asking if you value the internet and TV enough to pay your cable company for those services. You do value them so you'll pay to receive and use those services. If you don't pay up, well, no internet for you then.

 

It's also like paying for a pizza and pop (or any food and drink). You pay for it, you eat it, it comes out the very next day. Was the flavor, the experience, the atmosphere, the entertainment, the nutrition worth paying for? If not, don't go there again, one star review on yelp, tell all your friends to never go there.

 

How about electricity and sewage? Oh right, monthly fee, you value it so you'll pay for it to be connected to those services. I honestly could go on and while I see your point, it's just not how the world works.

 

Maybe these are bad examples, but like I (and now blaze) have said, if you value it, then you'd understand the need to pay for it. There are people behind this game and, quite frankly, they need this money not only to provide for the game but also themselves. 

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That pizza analogy actually made sense, and I see where you're going. I thought the website said that the early subscriptions would resume soon, though? Is it just a white lie then? I would gladly pay $500 for a lifetime subscription.

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Well that's quite a disappointment... That would have been a great opportunity; a once in a lifetime opportunity. I really need to pay more attention next time a revolutionary game makes offers to supporters. Maybe there will be another similar situation that I can participate in with another game.

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Hi RadFallout100,

 

Technically, yes, it would be possible to have Dual Universe playable in single player mode or LAN multiplayer mode, given the appropriate amount of game development time.

However it won't be done because of the two following reasons:

- because it's not the game vision.

- because of game development time necessary to adapt the game to such configuration.

 

That being said: 

- Nothing will prevent you to play "solo" if you're not interested in activities that could involve PvP (like building your base in a secure area).

- If you don't like to pay a monthly subscription, there's a high chance to see a yearly subscription once the game will launch. While it makes total sense to prefer paying only once for a single player game or player-hosted server game (where you can invite your friends to join in multiplayer mode), it makes more sense to pay progressively for an online game managed by a company, as paying only once won't give you the same pros (and cons) of buying a single player game or a player-hosted server game: you won't own the game. you will own the right to play the game for a specific amount of time.

- There was a lifetime subscription option for exactly one year (from the 7th September 2016 to the 7th September 2017). This was a limited reward to thank early backers for having given us their trust and backed the game to a such exceptional level.

 

Many people who like to play solo or just with a small group of friends see the current development of "games as a service" as an evil thing attempting to force them to change their way of playing. Nothing is more wrong:

1) The number of available games enabling players to play solo or in small groups has never been so huge (a short glance at Steam will convince anyone at that).

2) Seeing games released as services is not necessarily an attempt to force these people to pay more than before: it's just that these games are not meant for them. If they prefer to play solo and/or with a small group of friends, it's totally their right. However, they often forgot that not all players want the same thing, far from it: there are also many players wanting to play in a huge world/universe populated with many other players. MMORPGs (like Dual Universe) are meant for this second category of players, and from there, it's just a matter of financial viability:

 

Players want a huge world/universe with many other players (or even the whole community, in the case of Dual Universe) around them?

=>  as no player will have the hardware to host a server powerful enough, this is where it becomes necessary to have the hardware managed by the company developing the game.

=> such server will be expensive to maintain (hardware + staff behind it), and the cost will never end. Moreover, as many people will have different material, may encounter problems, due to a technical issue or a social issue with other groups of players (harassment, griefing, etc), it becomes necessary to get teams able to handle such situations (customer support, community managers). Moreover, as such games generally continue to evolve a lot after the release, to provide new features and new content (development team). All this can't just be paid once, with the wish that the game can live forever: if there are bills to pay at the end of each month, then the healthy to maintain the game is to have a subscription model.

 

Some will say "Yes, but there are a lot of MMORPGs free-to-play or buy-to-play". 

Sure, but to be honest, it would be interesting to ask ourselves the following:

- how many have lived for a very long time (10 years or more) with such model?

- do those games have been beyond reproach regarding the three following points: permanent server availability, high quality customer support, regular content/feature updates?

 

Dual Universe has the ambition to be a game that will last a lot more than a few years, with regular updates. Obviously, the vision will not appeal to all types of players (as no game can appeal to all players) and or the service to have a decent quality, it needs to have a regular income, hence a monthly subscription, and no "this monetization model is obsolete" or "look how many went free-to-play" will change that fact.

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar.

 

 

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