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Ship Class naming standards?


TheBlender

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55 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Germany had the Bismark (I don't remember its class) which was ALMOST the size of a cruiser, but had a lot of displacement, at least twice that of a Cruiser, but also its 30 Knots speed.

It's the Bismarck class. His (yes his!) sistership (or in this case even brothership?) was the Tirpitz.

Also,  you should look up the Bismarcks size:

250 m length (Iowa: 270 m) and 36 m width (Iowa: 33 m), is defintive NOT "almost cruiser size". It's battleship size.

55 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

When the US heard of Yamato and how it pretty much roflstomped ANYTHING on its wake, the ship engineers of the time said "how big must it be? Let's built it a bit biggher than the Arizona(which was sunk in Pearl Harbor)". When they first saw the Yamato, the Iwoa-Class Battleships were already being out of the Ddry docks. The Iowas won vs Yamatos cause of their RADARs and gun controls which made the deadly precise at night.

What did the Yamato "roflestomped"? As far as I know absolutly nothing.

She had only ONE engagement against enemy ships.

Besides that she got just bombed by American planes.

55 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Actual research the past 17 years have gone into making Stealth Frigates with the French leading the charge and absurdly long-range Destroyers developed by the South Koreans.

I doubt that the French are any futher in stealth ship development than America.

Also, what destroyer are you talking about? Or do you mean the Zumwalt (which is American)?

55 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

2) Carriers also have Cruise missile launching capabilitiy, as well as Predator Drones. I mean ,they can pinpoint targets 500 km off. So.. .yeah, they are really effective if it comes to pulverising enemy ships.

At least the American carriers can NOT launch cruise missiles, only anti-aircraft missiles (for self defence).

Cruise missiles are bascially flying, guided bombs, designed to engage targets at long range.

Predator drones are aircrafts, not missiles.

55 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

3) Referr to 2) as of why Battlestars are Carriers in my eyes. Also, check out the Iowa's modernised weaponry used during the 1990s Desert Storm operation. Their aremanets were then applied onto Nimitz-class carriers to bolster their offensive capabilities when the Iowas were decomissioned.

The Iowa was modernizes with cruise and anti-ship missiles. Both are not on the Nimitz class.

55 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

4) True, the HMS Dreadnought was revolutionary for its time, but that's besides the point, it's just a frame of referrence.  It's why we call the M16 a "carbine" instead ofa a machinegun - which it is, it is a mechanised gun working on gases. It's why we canll the AK-47 an Assault Rifle (and yes, Carbine != Assault Rifle, CoD is not reality). It's about "conventionn", i.e "everyone calls the M16 a Carbine, to make it stand out due to its niches and everyone calls the Vektor an SMG, cause it's a machinegun, but sub-parr as of stopping or suppresive potential in actual combat for war-time".

Machinegun: Full automatic gun with a focus on a high rate of fire and sustained fire. Portable by infantry. Technically everything that can fire full automatic is a machine gun. However, this is as practically as calling every warship just a "warship": To less relevant information.

Assault rifle: A combination of a rifle and machinegun. The first assault rifle was the German "Sturmgewehr 44" ("Sturmgewehr" = "Assault rifle") and was exactly that: You could fire semi-automatic with the precision of (nearly?) a rifle or full automatic like a machine gun, while you had magazines and no cartrigde belts.

SMG: Full automatic (compact) rifle that fires pistole ammunition.

Carbine: Compact (= shorter barrel) assault rifle.

When a assault rifle becomes a carbine is convention (definition), yes.

55 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Notince. "war-time", there's a reason SWAT teams use SMGs and not Assault Rifles. Likewise, the Dreadnought is just that - convention. It's just a way to let others know "this battleship is not normal".

SWAT and other special forces prefere carbines and MPs (in most situations!) because of their shorter barrel and therefore overall compacter and lighter design.

55 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

5) Still, Displacement is what you classify ships as. And RADRS will let you know of displacement - in conjunction with other means of course - they won't tell you what calibre of weapons the cruiser you detected has.

Radar tells you the size of the target (=radar cross section). In most cases the displacment is proportional to the ships size, however when you start using stealth techniques, then this is not the case anymore.

The Zumwalt for example, although beeing very huge (for a modern non-aircraft carrier ship) with almost 200 m lenght, has a very small radar cross section ("a small fisher boat").

 

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@Takao

1) Actually, every ship is a "she", cause of some really antiquated naval traditions. There is the saying "steady as she goes", which has an equivalent in almost every language, always with a female pronoun associated with it. While Bismarck was an actual guy, it's irrelevant when it comes to naming ships.

Case in point, Admiral Elmo(tickles?!) Zummwalt was a guy, but the stealth destroyer is still referred to as a she. Semantics, anyway.

 

As for the cruiser size, the average cruiser back then was 200 meters long and during the first Bismarck engagement against the HMS Hood and PRince of Wales, they had considered it "just a bigger cruiser". The HMS Hood was 262 meters long and classified as "Battlecruiser" and the HMS Prince of Wales was 220 meters. Fo coruse they' think the Bismarck was "just a cruiser". To them, it was just that. Although, it packed A SHITTON more armor than what both ships had, let alone the Bismarck had radar guided Gun Controls for deadly precision of weapon groupings. 
 

 

2) Roflstomped as in "omg, look at how big this Japanese ship is, it must be really OP". You know, cause back then people were of the idea "bigger is better".If carriers never had gotten into the limelight, today we'd be having 1km long battleships xD. Of course, as we know, the Japanese didn't learn from their own success at Pearl Harbor, as Musashi and Yamato were bombered to death.

3) Yeah, my bad, confused the fact French had created the hull design the Zummwalt uses to cut through waves. As for the Koreans, that's a destroyer they develope for the US, not for themselves.

 

4) & 5) And I stand corrected, confused a Carrier Strike Group with a Carrier. Turns out the escrot ships carry the Cruise missile launchers and missiles, while the Carrier provides the range-finding for guidance.

 

6) & 7) ... that's an elaborate example for agreeing with me. MachinePistols (UMP5K stands for UniversalMachinePistol 5000)  is just a Sub-Machinegun, if it can fire pistol rounds (9mm for example) without having to squeeze the trigger every time, that's a sub-machinegun. Carbine also literally come from a greek word and a latin word for "rapid fire" and "fizzle" respectively - fizzle, cause, you know, muskets :P, if the musket can fire more than 5 times a minute, that's a "carbine" I guess, gotta love the 1700s. 

 

8) And same deal will go down in DU. You'll see a "250 meters" ship, you'll say "hey, it's a cruiser, let's go pwn them guys!" , only to find super cruiser that's borderline as tanky as a battleship. Like the HMS Hood and HMS Price of Wales thought the Bismarck was a "meme cruiser", same trickery will go down in dU.

As for the stealth potential, yes, Cross-Section reduction is one of the ways to go, the others could heat 9heat-sinks with limited lfieespan as long as they are active), magnetometric stealth (use non metallic materials to mitigated magnetometers) and gravitometric (make your ship light weight an vblend in with asteroids).

But we derailed the topic long enough I'd say.

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30 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

1) Actually, every ship is a "she", cause of some really antiquated naval traditions. There is the saying "steady as she goes", which has an equivalent in almost every language, always with a female pronoun associated with it. While Bismarck was an actual guy, it's irrelevant when it comes to naming ships.

@CaptainTwerkmotor

Yes ships are generally called as "she", but not the Bismarck and Tirpitz. They where called "he" exactly because both where man (German precision at it's finest -.- ).

Just look it up ;)

30 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

As for the cruiser size, the average cruiser back then was 200 meters long and during the first Bismarck engagement against the HMS Hood and PRince of Wales, they had considered it "just a bigger cruiser". The HMS Hood was 262 meters long and classified as "Battlecruiser" and the HMS Prince of Wales was 220 meters. Fo coruse they' think the Bismarck was "just a cruiser". To them, it was just that.

If thats the case, than the British spotters where pretty bad...

30 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Although, it packed A SHITTON more armor than what both ships had, let alone the Bismarck had radar guided Gun Controls for deadly precision of weapon groupings.

As far as I know, the only navy who had radar guided guns where the American Navy. Their radar system could also automatically track see and air (!!!) targets.

The Bismarck had radar, but it could definitive not track air targets.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Takao said:

Yes ships are generally called as "she", but not the Bismarck and Tirpitz. They where called "he" exactly because both where man (German precision at it's finest -.- ).

Just look it up ;)

And the Tirpitz was also a she, look it up

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1 hour ago, Takao said:

@CaptainTwerkmotor

Yes ships are generally called as "she", but not the Bismarck and Tirpitz. They where called "he" exactly because both where man (German precision at it's finest -.- ).

Just look it up ;)

If thats the case, than the British spotters where pretty bad...

As far as I know, the only navy who had radar guided guns where the American Navy. Their radar system could also automatically track see and air (!!!) targets.

The Bismarck had radar, but it could definitive not track air targets.

 

 

Yes, Bismarck was the first battleship class (before Iowa) to incorporate Radar guided Gun Controls. The japanese had them as well, albeit terrible in quality compared to the americans' and germans' . That's why the Bismarck zero'd its guns so fast on Hood and almost outright tore apart Prince of Wales, which went on to fight a few more battles.

 

You also need to remember, back then they relied on Mk I "Eyeball" confirmation methods... at over 20 or 30 kilometers distance. Try and spot a ship's guns at thopse distances... with binoculars...

 

 They thought it was a cruiser, they made a call, it happens in war-time. Bismarck versus the HMS Hood and HMS Prince of Wales was the first battle of WW2 at sea between Britain and Germany.

 

As for the air-targets, that's funny, cause they got hit hard by a dive bomber who jammed their tourbines at a 12 degree angle, forcing the Bismarck to turn helplessly just 2 days after it blew up the HMS Hood and be sunk subsequently.

It could track air targets, but definitely not good enough for its guns to hit bombers.

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The truth is trying to fit  space ships in one specific order does not really work when you break it down not even all the countries in the world use the same system to category there ship classes so why would thousands of separate organizations.

 

CAPITAL SHIPS : The capital ships of a navy are its most important warships; they are generally the larger ships when compared to other warships in their respective fleet. A capital ship is generally a leading or a primary ship in a navy fleet.

 

Organizations will want the best possible space ships for there people even if they are not in command of a mission so technically if they are using high quality ship any of them could be the command ship.

 

Capital Ship Specialization is what I would be going more with because people will need unique ships based on the missions they want to run. The reason I said I would go with 3 sizes like : large , medium , small is primarily the size of the crew you will need to man the ship. If you wanted to use the system some are talking about it would go something like this :

 

Small Capital ship = corvette to small frigate  with crew size 5 to 20

Medium Capital ship = large frigate  or destroyer to small cruiser with crew 25 to 50

Large Capital ship = large cruiser to destroyer or small carrier with crew 50 to 100+

Extra Large Capital ship = lets face it anything this size will be a flying fortress like a battle ship + carrier combo with crew 100+ or as many as you need to cause havoc !

 

Not every one will understand the ship categorizing system so when I sell ships I want to make it easy as I can by telling them the ship size and crew size needed  to man it and then we get started on what kind of missions they plan on running and which system and weapons would be the best for the job. 

 

Personally I feel I can make a modular type system for ships that is customizable for the customers needs so you might see 10 small ships made from my blue print but they are all unique ships based on what the customer wants and needs equipped for missions.

 

If someone likes the ship class system over my system its no big problem you simple rename it and put it in the category you want but I am just trying to make it easy for everyone.

 

I will also make unique ships that the player or organization will only have blue prints for but that will cost a little more .    =)

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1 hour ago, GunDeva said:

The truth is trying to fit  space ships in one specific order does not really work when you break it down not even all the countries in the world use the same system to category there ship classes so why would thousands of separate organizations.

 

CAPITAL SHIPS : The capital ships of a navy are its most important warships; they are generally the larger ships when compared to other warships in their respective fleet. A capital ship is generally a leading or a primary ship in a navy fleet.

 

Organizations will want the best possible space ships for there people even if they are not in command of a mission so technically if they are using high quality ship any of them could be the command ship.

 

Capital Ship Specialization is what I would be going more with because people will need unique ships based on the missions they want to run. The reason I said I would go with 3 sizes like : large , medium , small is primarily the size of the crew you will need to man the ship. If you wanted to use the system some are talking about it would go something like this :

 

Small Capital ship = corvette to small frigate  with crew size 5 to 20

Medium Capital ship = large frigate  or destroyer to small cruiser with crew 25 to 50

Large Capital ship = large cruiser to destroyer or small carrier with crew 50 to 100+

Extra Large Capital ship = lets face it anything this size will be a flying fortress like a battle ship + carrier combo with crew 100+ or as many as you need to cause havoc !

 

Not every one will understand the ship categorizing system so when I sell ships I want to make it easy as I can by telling them the ship size and crew size needed  to man it and then we get started on what kind of missions they plan on running and which system and weapons would be the best for the job. 

 

Personally I feel I can make a modular type system for ships that is customizable for the customers needs so you might see 10 small ships made from my blue print but they are all unique ships based on what the customer wants and needs equipped for missions.

 

If someone likes the ship class system over my system its no big problem you simple rename it and put it in the category you want but I am just trying to make it easy for everyone.

 

I will also make unique ships that the player or organization will only have blue prints for but that will cost a little more .    =)

But why would you call them all Capital Ships? That is just confusing

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29 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:

But why would you call them all Capital Ships? That is just confusing

Well I think most would find it  less confusing  then having 3 to 10 types of corvette , frigates , destroyers , cruisers , battle ships , carriers ? Hmm =) Ship will be more specialized depending on what people want to use them for.

 

I used capital ships because these will be the ships leading the way for players and organization I also added the definition .

 

CAPITAL SHIPS : The capital ships of a navy are its most important warships; they are generally the larger ships when compared to other warships in their respective fleet. A capital ship is generally a leading or a primary ship in a navy fleet.

 

I really don't  need a name and could give my ship any name I want like a car ? Want to buy a Vindicator ? Ok what size : small 10 manned ship , medium 25 manned ship , large 50 manned , extra large 100+ manned ship ? Ok what  type of missions do you want this ship to be able to perform and what type of weapons do you want ?  Sorry but that's simple enough even a small kid could figure it out? 

 

Just saying =)

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There is no such thing as "Small capitals". You people can have all the inferiority syndrome you can take, "Small Capital" is a fallacy.

It's like saying "this is not a Prius, no, this is an Affordable Porsche". 

See the fallacy? Good.

 

People can go ahead and call their corvette "Capital Ship", that'll make it all the more AMUSING when the QQ forum posts come in with people saying :

"mimimimimi, my Capital Frigate couldn't kill them! NQ , BALANCE CAPITAL SHIPS"

Only for people to bash said comments with "You flew a corvette, they fly a dreadnought, you were outgunned and outarmored by 3 orders of magnitud, you are lucky collisions between ships don't cause damage, cause they'd be able to simply cut you aprt with their bow".

Either way, the meta will find an answer in time.

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1 hour ago, GunDeva said:

Well I think most would find it  less confusing  then having 3 to 10 types of corvette , frigates , destroyers , cruisers , battle ships , carriers ? Hmm =) Ship will be more specialized depending on what people want to use them for.

 

I used capital ships because these will be the ships leading the way for players and organization I also added the definition .

 

CAPITAL SHIPS : The capital ships of a navy are its most important warships; they are generally the larger ships when compared to other warships in their respective fleet. A capital ship is generally a leading or a primary ship in a navy fleet.

 

I really don't  need a name and could give my ship any name I want like a car ? Want to buy a Vindicator ? Ok what size : small 10 manned ship , medium 25 manned ship , large 50 manned , extra large 100+ manned ship ? Ok what  type of missions do you want this ship to be able to perform and what type of weapons do you want ?  Sorry but that's simple enough even a small kid could figure it out? 

 

Just saying =)

Your definition of capital ship is flawed. A dingy might be the most important ship/boat in a fleet it doesnt however compare to an actual battleship bearing down on it. Is the dingy a capital ship - nopes. Is the battleship bearing down on it....posibly but not guaranteed. Is the dingy dead? You bet ya.

 

 

Just saying :)

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Now we or just getting silly a dingy right ?  Generally by definition  capital ships usually are some of the larger ships but they don't have to be and some times have not ben. Someone might want to use a small stealthier ship as there command because bigger ships also make bigger targets and they may feel a smaller high tech stealthier ship is more survivable and needed. 

 

My definition is flawed ok ? : CAPITAL SHIPS : The capital ships of a navy are its most important warships; they are GENERALLY the larger ships when compared to other warships in their respective fleet. A capital ship is GENERALLY a leading or a primary ship in a navy fleet.

Not mine its right out of the book!

 

Size matters ?  =)  The most deadly ship to battle ships , carriers , and dreadnaught type ships has ben the sub = a small fast stealth type ship ! Can a group of corvettes take out a battle ship? Well that depends on the system and weapons they have ! Big guns good luck hitting any thing small and fast with possible counter measures !

 

Your categorizations system is also flawed those names usually stand for type of roles/missions those ships will be playing which is fine for maybe a organization or country but you will have millions of players wanting there ships and gear to be specialized and unique to there play styles ! Every ones not going to fit in the same set up so some times you have to think out of the box and customization will be the key! Its not going to be as easy as  paper , rock , scissors!  =)

 

I'm not calling them capital ships I don't want to use any part of that system. I will do like most  engineers and designers and give them my own names and  people can change them after they buy them and put them in any system they want.

 

Most of my time will be on commerce and weapon systems but I will build 2 to 4 ships and just keep improving on there design and systems. I cant wait till the pirate groups get started , I think people will be surprised/dumbfounded and in fear but I wonder if they will be using your ship classification system?  =)

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2 hours ago, GunDeva said:

Now we or just getting silly a dingy right ?  Generally by definition  capital ships usually are some of the larger ships but they don't have to be and some times have not ben. Someone might want to use a small stealthier ship as there command because bigger ships also make bigger targets and they may feel a smaller high tech stealthier ship is more survivable and needed. 

 

My definition is flawed ok ? : CAPITAL SHIPS : The capital ships of a navy are its most important warships; they are GENERALLY the larger ships when compared to other warships in their respective fleet. A capital ship is GENERALLY a leading or a primary ship in a navy fleet.

Not mine its right out of the book!

 

Size matters ?  =)  The most deadly ship to battle ships , carriers , and dreadnaught type ships has ben the sub = a small fast stealth type ship ! Can a group of corvettes take out a battle ship? Well that depends on the system and weapons they have ! Big guns good luck hitting any thing small and fast with possible counter measures !

 

Your categorizations system is also flawed those names usually stand for type of roles/missions those ships will be playing which is fine for maybe a organization or country but you will have millions of players wanting there ships and gear to be specialized and unique to there play styles ! Every ones not going to fit in the same set up so some times you have to think out of the box and customization will be the key! Its not going to be as easy as  paper , rock , scissors!  =)

 

I'm not calling them capital ships I don't want to use any part of that system. I will do like most  engineers and designers and give them my own names and  people can change them after they buy them and put them in any system they want.

 

Most of my time will be on commerce and weapon systems but I will build 2 to 4 ships and just keep improving on there design and systems. I cant wait till the pirate groups get started , I think people will be surprised/dumbfounded and in fear but I wonder if they will be using your ship classification system?  =)

I think you are confusing capital ship with command ship. And calling each size of ship as a capital is just silly. May as well just call them a ship.

 

All i want to see in a ship description is crew compliment, mass, dynamic characteristics, weapons and defence systems.

 

I dont care what its classified as, the ship will be used as its owner sees fit. Which tends to make this thread redundant.

 

 

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@GunDeva

 

Saying that "using a smaller stealthier ship equals it being a capital" is the same kind of fallacy as saying "a military jeep is an MBT".  No, no it's not, a Capital Ship can only be combated by other capital ships - carriers vs carriers, battleships vs battleshiips or any combination of the two, or superfirepower onto them.

A capital ship is NOT something below a capital ship, same way a Nokia 3310 is not a Smartphone just by virtue of it being a cellphone.

 

If I was to paraphrase Takao earlier : if everything is a capital ship NO SHIP is a capital ship.

Capital is SHIP SIZE, not class, nor ship role.

if your ship is a frigate, it's NOT a capital. Only if it's a LINE-OF-BATTLE warship it's considered a Capital. Sure, your frigate could be a specialised stealth frigate, but guess what, it's NOT a capital.


Is your frigate the head of a formation? Then it's a FLAGSHIP, not a Capital. Flagship == command ship.

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36 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

No, no it's not, a Capital Ship can only be combated by other capital ships - carriers vs carriers, battleships vs battleshiips or any combination of the two, or superfirepower onto them.

@CaptainTwerkmotor

By that definition there is ether no such thing as a capital ship or (almost) every warship is a capital ship, or do you mean "combated by other capital ships in a 1vs1"?

Because battleships can be easily sunk by submarines, destroyers with torpedoes or be defeated (= not being able to continue fighting) by cruisers.

 

Also you have specifically sad that frigates are line of battle ships, so they would be capital ships by your definition.

 

Quote by William S. Lind:

Quote

"These characteristics define a capital ship: if the capital ships are beaten, the navy is beaten. But if the rest of the navy is beaten, the capital ships can still operate. Another characteristic that defines capital ships is that their main opponent is each other."

 

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@Takao

 

 

I did say '' super firepower on them''. Guess conjunctions were not clear.

 

Point is, a capital can hit you before you can hit it. It's a Capital asset. A frigate fompered to a battleship costs peanuts. Losing a frigate is not a major blow to a navy. 

 

Also, I didn't say a frigate is Line-of-Battle. Frigates are meant for defensive operations. And submarines are just specialised frigates that can submerge. In fact, the original u-boats of germwny were nothing but repurposed bunter-killers, or as you may know them, frigates with torpedos.

 

 

And again, specialised frigate ior destroyer does not mean capital.

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I'd guess Capital is analogous to the Age of Sail where the larger ships could hold larger cannons and stronger hulls, and thence out-range other ships and gain superior advantage in warfare? What will large ship fleets attack?

 

* Other large ships controlling areas of space

* Large space-stations themselves (trade hubs?)

* Planetary infrastructure defences and productivity areas.

 

Whatever happens it seems large fleet battles could be one of the most fun and most popular areas of gameplay (could) so let's hope we see relatively frequent such engagements of diverse sizes, scenarios, multiple fronts of factions and of course some great ship to ship engagements themselves!

 

As said, role in such scenarios might end up classifying ships too?

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4 minutes ago, MookMcMook said:

I'd guess Capital is analogous to the Age of Sail where the larger ships could hold larger cannons and stronger hulls, and thence out-range other ships and gain superior advantage in warfare? What will large ship fleets attack?

 

* Other large ships controlling areas of space

* Large space-stations themselves (trade hubs?)

* Planetary infrastructure defences and productivity areas.

 

Whatever happens it seems large fleet battles could be one of the most fun and most popular areas of gameplay (could) so let's hope we see relatively frequent such engagements of diverse sizes, scenarios, multiple fronts of factions and of course some great ship to ship engagements themselves!

 

As said, role in such scenarios might end up classifying ships too?


That's the general rule of thumb, yes.

No sane perrson IRL ever attacked a Capital ship with a cruiser, not on deliberation at least and with proper intel.

The Capitals' larger guns, can hit a smaller ship before it can even get within firing range and it's the main reason Capital ships (past a certain mass of course) are approached with "bring a capital to fight a capital".

 

There IS a mechanical limit on how big a ship's gun can be before it's impossible to operate, and Capitals oeprate on the assumption "equip the biggst guns, have the toughest armor". If Ia ship doesn't have the biggest guns or the toughest armor, it's NOT aa Capital.

In fact, the term "capital ship" became of use when the Americans made the first "modern" version of a battleship hull, with the USS Constitution, which for its time was impossible to puncture with ANY cannon size, unless VERY VERY up close. Problem with "Old Ironside", is it would pepper you to death before you could even get close to it to shoot it.

So, for all intents and purposes, Capitals are meant to fight other Capitals, and their escort ships are there to protect the Capital from being approached from smaller vessels who can do some serious damage if they get really close. The same rule that applied to USS Constitution and its two-type wooden armor, applied to the Bismarck's thick 300mm steel belt and the same idea applies to the USS Nimitz and its swarm of jets and drones.

 

It's also why Capital ships always have the most senior of personel, with the commanding officer being a captain or admiral. Thhere is a certain degreee of experience needed behind such a ship. 

I personally in DU would stick with a Destroyer, mainly cause they are VERY VERY specialised, like a Rogue-class in other MMOs. You are just that DPS.

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