Jump to content
Thor Wotansen

Sensor arrays and distribution of information

Recommended Posts

We know that there will be radar elements but we have yet to hear how they will be used to display information.  I propose that they have a limited range and in order to get a full picture of the area, say like around your planet, you would have to deploy sensor arrays, small satellites that have radar and an antenna for data transmission.  This could also be done with scout ships or drones set to fly the perimeter.  This would make tactical information like enemy fleet positions and size be entirely dependent on the sensor systems you have in place. It also leaves it open for the enemy to try to take out your array before they arrive.  This in general makes for great emergent gamepaly, as you can have all sorts of intrigue and espionage and assorted other fun things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With more than 900 hex per planet, gg on the first org/player to "own" a planet ;)

But I agree, it would be nice to be able to share data(events?) between construct,

With each sensor reporting to a "master" script located on your base/HQ/planet.

 

What could be nicer, is to be able to trigger a web call to a private webserver in addition to that ! ... but I am dreaming as it will basically make a potential DDOS relay of the gameserver. Or maybe the opposite, DU could expose a RESTfull small API for us to "fetch" such events

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Your idea of sensor arrays is good. A ground based, group-styled, overlapping system with each group having a kind of group-centre computer that submits data to the final computer for the organisation should be the last line of ISR--where an organisation or alliance holds a planet. The defence above that should be space based beacons. I propose that they should be cheap and easy to produce with a well hidden group computer that submits data to the specified organisation/alliance computer. The first line of defence, however, should be programmed drones and players themselves. This will allow for interesting espionage and make sure that you're not wasting resources on endlessly building intelligence gathering radar/units outside your enemies' borders. The reason for players to be the first line of defence is: satellites, radars, and other sensor units are easily destroyed once spotted, unless you want to waste money on building an advanced defence unit for every radar unit you have on land and in space, players are better. They are mobile, sentient and innovative. While there may be lapses in the first line of defence like down time and offline periods, an efficient network of joint security with other organisations or a well spread out player base in different time-zones will effectively neutralise the problem.

 

You might wonder why I insist on the group-centre computer, yes? Well, to prevent DDOS, like lethak mentioned, a group computer will take the data and present it as one unit. Instead of having tens or hundreds of confusing reports, you will have only a few with the same amount of accuracy. I must stress that a group computer needs to be well-hidden--defence is hopeless for such things except you plan on having very few or foresee untold riches to produce and maintain them.

"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would they have a range limit... in space... and the devs plan for a relativistic emulation in-game, so, a ship jumping into your system won't magically appear in your screen, it will take time for the "light" from the object to reach you, given there might be the need for warp for some ships to jump from planet to planet in a system.


In fact, radar is slow, like, really slow, you got to send a signal then wait for it bounce back, that's how they work after all. Instead, make the sensors act like really precise and high definition telescopes, or optic sensors, with a specilised player taking the monitoring station on the bridge of a ship to add their own skillset in pinpointing the enemy from the maximum possible distance and then providing targets for the weapons' officers on the bridge. Probes and such are a viable option, but they should be acting as sentires and relaying the info back to the mothership with the readings it can get before it is destroyed, if it is destroyed by players.


Also, have the Command & Control center underground, locked behind sealed doors, put on some password protection and people you trust as sentries at the doors. Cause if that thing goes down, chances are any planetary defense goes down with it.


As for LUA scripting remote transfer of read-outs, that is up for debate, given how the devs may implement such a thing and if there's a "connect dot A to dot B" style of setting up satellites around a planet for such thing to work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i have yet to see any game that employs any kind of light-delay mechanics unless its specifically built around those mechanics.

 

i deem it very unlikely that DU will employ such mechanics.

 

especially as they are a pain in the ass to keep track off, with lots of memory and processing power needed to generate the effects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i have yet to see any game that employs any kind of light-delay mechanics unless its specifically built around those mechanics.

 

i deem it very unlikely that DU will employ such mechanics.

 

especially as they are a pain in the ass to keep track off, with lots of memory and processing power needed to generate the effects.

That's how they built the servers though. Check the interviews, when they say things like "You may enter a system and see a ship at the other side of the system, that ship might not actually be there". They did weave such a thing in with the way the server updates information based in proximity to a cluster when you move from star system to another. As you get closer to another ship, the server updates your information faster and faster. It's emulation of such things at its finest. The key word is emulation. And Unigine can support such things, as for the netcode involved, I have no clear idea, they developed the server tech for the game itselff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that is not time delay but reduced update frequency.

 

different things :P

 

 

with time delay you can see everything in full fidelity (according to your sensors) but shifted by x depending on your distance.

 

the thing he outlined was that you see a snapshot of the distant object every x seconds/minutes with the frequency depending on the distance.

with no data on the object in between those snapshots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that is not time delay but reduced update frequency.

 

different things :P

As I said, emulation of relativistic effects :P Still beats magic 5 light hours distance detection :V

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said, emulation of relativistic effects :P Still beats magic 5 light hours distance detection :V

 

you still get the magic 5 light hours detection, just not constantly but only with discrete snapshots every 5 minutes :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you still get the magic 5 light hours detection, just not constantly but only with discrete snapshots every 5 minutes :P

Something like that, indeed. Essentially, you as a player, will never be overwhelmed by data from a massive fleet arriving in a system, as the server will gradually update all the distance to you in this emulation of relativity. What I meant is it won't be EVE's magic Local roster :P

 

 

If you were to be on a planet and started moving towards a jump-point to another system and at the moement of your departure another ship arrived at the jump point and then started moving towards you at the same speed, chances are that a quarter of your way you would see the other guy coming in the system and rapidly moving towards you until your client came up to date with events on the certain area of the server. Of course, you would say "That's not how lightspped works" and you would be right, cause this is an emulation, not simulation of relativity and it's an amazing way of keeping server load on the client low, possibly keeping the game in a playable and smooth framerate than a slideshow :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something like that, indeed. Essentially, you as a player, will never be overwhelmed by data from a massive fleet arriving in a system, as the server will gradually update all the distance to you in this emulation of relativity. What I meant is it won't be EVE's magic Local roster :P

 

theres nothing about "gradually", just more frequent :P

 

your certain area doesnt get old data, it just gets more rarely the current data set.

 

when your shard gets the update "ship x at position y" you dont get the data from 20 minutes ago when it first arrived in the system.

you get its current position.

 

thats not how lightspeed works :P

thats not how anything works

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

theres nothing about "gradually", just more frequent :P

 

your certain area doesnt get old data, it just gets more rarely the current data set.

 

when your shard gets the update "ship x at position y" you dont get the data from 20 minutes ago when it first arrived in the system.

you get its current position.

 

thats not how lightspeed works :P

thats not how anything works

That's what you missed apparently, the game has no different shards, it has clusters :V EVE has different shards, as EVE is not continuous, t's fragmented :P

 

 

Sensors or sentry nodes would simply trasmit to you data of arrivals before the server was to update your client on the whole thing, hence, giving you an actual edge. Think of it as a sensor giving you notifications beyond your rendering distance in-game, cause, you know, you can't have the game render the entire universe for you, no matter how much dynamic resolutions are used :V

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what you missed apparently, the game has no different shards, it has clusters :V EVE has different shards, as EVE is not continuous, t's fragmented :P

 

you didnt understand it either then :P

 

DU is as fragmented as EVE is, just along different borders and with different interaction rules between individual server instances :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you didnt understand it either then :P

 

DU is as fragmented as EVE is, just along different borders and with different interaction rules between individual server instances :P

As far as I know, you can't travel the actual distance between systems in EVE :P Because it's fragmented in servers/shards. Please, correct me if I'm wrong :V

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as I know, you can't travel the actual distance between systems in EVE :P Because it's fragmented in servers/shards. Please, correct me if I'm wrong :V

hence why "different transition rules" :P

 

Nothing technical would prevent EVE from giving you a warp-to point to get to the next star and transition you to it when you cross a border :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hence why "different transition rules" :P

 

Nothing technical would prevent EVE from giving you a warp-to point to get to the next star and transition you to it when you cross a border :P

I give up. You'll have to see it for yourself :V BTW, ask Aetherios for the DPU / LUA scripts answer he got :D You know, the other debate you claimed I was wrong about :V

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I give up. You'll have to see it for yourself :V BTW, ask Aetherios for the DPU / LUA scripts answer he got :D You know, the other debate you claimed I was wrong about :V

 

aaaaaahaaaaa.

linking hard?

(i also dont even remember the debate)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

aaaaaahaaaaa.

linking hard?

(i also dont even remember the debate)

The one about DPUs needing certain power in wattage levels to operate. You know, like EVE requires a certain wattage for certain gear to function in your outfitiing.

The one about more DPUs needing more power to operate :V

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The one about DPUs needing certain power in wattage levels to operate. You know, like EVE requires a certain wattage for certain gear to function in your outfitiing.

The one about more DPUs needing more power to operate :V

 

and aetherios has more argumentative power than you or i... how?

 

i also didnt say that you are /wrong/ i just asked you to stop claiming like its set in stone :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and aetherios has more argumentative power than you or i... how?

 

i also didnt say that you are /wrong/ i just asked you to stop claiming like its set in stone :P

Get on Discord, we've derailed another thread :V

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that you two are done hashing out your stupid technicality can we get back on topic?

I agree with Aetherios that it be a plethora of dumb sensors controlled by a central processor, that's what I was going for, but the main point is the mechanic, do people like the idea of having to place sensor grids or would you rather have one sensor for the entire planet and have instant godlike knowledge?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that you two are done hashing out your stupid technicality can we get back on topic?

I agree with Aetherios that it be a plethora of dumb sensors controlled by a central processor, that's what I was going for, but the main point is the mechanic, do people like the idea of having to place sensor grids or would you rather have one sensor for the entire planet and have instant godlike knowledge?

nah, multiple sensors. Let the game be difficult when it comes to PvP, with depths of and angles of defense. A guy defending a territory in a ship should not be finding less difficulty than a guy who's building up a sensor grid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that you two are done hashing out your stupid technicality can we get back on topic?

I agree with Aetherios that it be a plethora of dumb sensors controlled by a central processor, that's what I was going for, but the main point is the mechanic, do people like the idea of having to place sensor grids or would you rather have one sensor for the entire planet and have instant godlike knowledge?

"Instant godlike knowledge-I like that term--would be great and the only option for small organisations or alliances that have control over a planet; or for alliances/organisations that are yet to properly cement their hold on the planet. The other option of multiple (plethora as you put it) would be great for keeping your eyes in space. All in all, having a handful of smart central processors is better than relying solely on just one. If your godlike knowledge sensor is "mortalised", you'll be fighting blind. However, if there are multiple central systems, each coordinating a group, you'll have a few left, even if one kicks the bucket."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

do people like the idea of having to place sensor grids or would you rather have one sensor for the entire planet and have instant godlike knowledge?

 

If a planet is 100Km radius, and you could cover it all with only 1 or 2 sensor, it would be too easy and without challenge to cover.

 

Having to build an array of carefully placed sensor bring the challenge of organizing the data to be able to build a human readable overview.

This is the kind of challenge I like.

 

This is also an opportunity for emergent gameplay since hostiles cannot disrupt and impair your detection ability too easily, having to seek and destroy a grid of sensor is proving to be a greater challenge than only one. But securing such a grid can be proving very costly too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a planet is 100Km radius, and you could cover it all with only 1 or 2 sensor, it would be too easy and without challenge to cover.

 

Having to build an array of carefully placed sensor bring the challenge of organizing the data to be able to build a human readable overview.

This is the kind of challenge I like.

 

This is also an opportunity for emergent gameplay since hostiles cannot disrupt and impair your detection ability too easily, having to seek and destroy a grid of sensor is proving to be a greater challenge than only one. But securing such a grid can be proving very costly too.

I may disagree with this man every post he makes, but he seems to grasp the idea of any gameplay requiring a certain extend in difficulty and skil lerequired. Here, have my like good sir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...