Civilian, Ecosphere and Infrastructure damage limitation pact

[Anaximander]

Ha... so funny... some people are funny, I give them that.

“When the enemy is relaxed, make them toil. When full, starve them. When settled, make them move.”

“Those who wish to fight must first count the cost”

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, your victory will not stand in doubt; if you know Heaven and know Earth, you may make your victory complete.”

~ Sun Tzu, The Art of War.




 

[KingofPR]

Imagine if no one gets to build a spaceship and we stay stuck in the planet because we have used all of the resources

[DaSchiz]

I imagine eventually someone will start a police force organization. Perhaps even such an organisation that is solely for the peaceful maintenance of a planet or even solar system.

 

 

So an organization that wants to keep the balance?  Hmmm ... if only there was an organization with a focus on balance .....

[DaSchiz]

 Everyone is going out to make a name for themselves, they won't spend much time trying to protect others too.

 

What if that is EXACTLY the way they want to make their name? 

[DaSchiz]

Really too many unknowns about the game still to be able to say this can happen.  I have imagined planets where cities include embassy's type buildings in the same area for diplomacy and trade; like a multi-orgainzation city (or cities) built and occupied by each.  Probably in "safe" planets or areas that JC stated would be in game.  However it sounds great but in game play it may not be worth it or necessary if we can simply send emails without cost investment or risk.

 

Even if you could get a majority to agree to this how long would it be until someone plays the evil card and just waits for the opportunity to pounce?  How can this be set up so it is in every organizations interest to NOT scheme and attack?  I know for me trust would be an issue if there is no self interest keeping the dogs of war at bay.

[Warden]

In the end, while many factors will play into this until then and with the start of the project (and the game) and of course the time after it started and went public, I still like to think: If people want it to happen and make it happen, it will work. At least for a time.

 

From what we can glimpse at already, the game design will make it likely to work in the first place. The rest is human interaction and willpower to initiate something like this. The rest is action-reaction or open. It can work well, it can fail.

If you are curious and interested, do not worry too much about how it could fail. Worry about how you can kick this off and make it happen. Does anyone remember RTCW (the old game, but not the first)? The MP part has a classic team deathmatch component. Comparable to any other old or modern game with said component. On one map we were once able to enact a ceasefire for the heck of it. In a game or mode where the purpose is to combat the other team, we somehow enacted a ceasefire, met up in some place and "hung around" for the duration of the round.

 

Perhaps that is a little example for motivation in tackling things that seem "exotic" or similar.

[SteveMcFarlane]

Vulture Corporation is committed to the advancement of civilization and the betterment of the human race. We proposed this pact to ensure safe places for induviduals to thrive, and to limit damage to the few green planets.

The freedom of choice and the freedom to enjoy your existence without fear of destruction is important.

Yes this pact cannot cover non-signers territory, or those of non-signers who are at war (although we can strongly condemn them) but we can certainly oppose superweapons and oppose strip mining on other green worlds, neutrality on Alioth and banning bombardment of civilian cities.

There's other ways of taking out military and governmental facilities within cities than just orbital bombardments. But then perhaps people protesting that part lack the tactical initiative to realise that or plan such.

[Bella_Astrum]

So an organization that wants to keep the balance?  Hmmm ... if only there was an organization with a focus on balance .....

 

Balance is always important and I often observe in human societies that if there is imbalance chaos will arise in order to restore balance. Push too far one way, someone has to push back. I believe the Universe requires balance in all things, whether it's creating planets, stars, life etc. Just the right ingredients in all things. Too much of any one thing creates dis-ease.

 

I think we will see this reflected in DU. If there is too much destruction, there will be those who will fight to bring order, and thus the scales of life will ever swing until total balance is achieved.

[Halo381]

There's other ways of taking out military and governmental facilities within cities than just orbital bombardments. But then perhaps people protesting that part lack the tactical initiative to realise that or plan such.

 

It's not so much a lack of tactical initiative as it is a simple love for bombarding things 

[Peregrin]

Enforcing this would be the real challenge, a delicate and ungrateful task, bordering on the impossible: the constant diplomatic and military effort will mostly be a discouraging endless chore, dismissed at best as helpless whiteknighting anyway.

 

However, it might prove fruitful in time, as such pact/ convention/ treaty would at least help give shape and tone to all Dual Universe organizations, by self-labeling those who openly sport it and those who disregard it. Communication, more than strength of arms, would be the key here.

 

Therefore, though neutral observers of the galaxy's colonization, D.U. Sleepers would be very willing to associate themselves with this initiative and help promoting it. Steve, Vulture Corporation and/ or anybody willing to lead along this windy uneven-stoned path can get in touch with me anytime.

 

(May I suggest the acronym "P.E.A.C.E." [Promotion of Ethics for Arcology, Citizentry and Ecosphere] ?)

[Anaximander]

 

Enforcing this would be the real challenge, a delicate and ungrateful task, bordering on the impossible: the constant diplomatic and military effort will mostly be a discouraging endless chore, dismissed at best as helpless whiteknighting anyway.

 

However, it might prove fruitful in time, as such pact/ convention/ treaty would at least help give shape and tone to all Dual Universe organizations, by self-labeling those who openly sport it and those who disregard it. Communication, more than strength of arms, would be the key here.

 

Therefore, though neutral observers of the galaxy's colonization, D.U. Sleepers would be very willing to associate themselves with this initiative and help promoting it. Steve, Vulture Corporation and/ or anybody willing to lead along this windy uneven-stoned path can get in touch with me anytime.

 

(May I suggest the acronym "P.E.A.C.E." [Promotion of Ethics for Arcology, Citizentry and Ecosphere] ?)

 

You know what would be amazing? Having a complete set of laws drafted and adding piracy being illegal in there, with the capital punishment being complete and utter obliteration of the pirates' haven.  Except if you are supporting the right for griefers to grief, in which case, DU Sleepers will be the equivalent of the U.N. -- a redundant convention for people to claim it has authority, while nobody gives a flying flamingo about it :V

 

 

And yes, I'm a firm believer in the Art of War.

[Vyz Ejstu]

You know what would be amazing? Having a complete set of laws drafted and adding piracy being illegal in there, with the capital punishment being complete and utter obliteration of the pirates' haven.  Except if you are supporting the right for griefers to grief, in which case, DU Sleepers will be the equivalent of the U.N. -- a redundant convention for people to claim it has authority, while nobody gives a flying flamingo about it :V

 

 

And yes, I'm a firm believer in the Art of War.

"Have faith, Captain. There's still hope in the human race."

[Anaximander]

"Have faith, Captain. There's still hope in the human race."

Too much of a cynic to have faith

[Peregrin]

in which case, DU Sleepers will be the equivalent of the U.N. -- a redundant convention for people to claim it has authority, while nobody gives a flying flamingo about it :V

 

 

Let me stress out that Sleepers will NOT enforce or coerce anyone in any way, I was offering help in communication and information. Sleepers are and will remain observers, not actors.

[Vyz Ejstu]

Too much of a cynic to have faith

"Aha! We both know you're a believer."

[Anaximander]

Let me stress out that Sleepers will NOT enforce or coerce anyone in any way, I was offering help in communication and information. Sleepers are and will remain observers, not actors.

We agree then on the Sleepers being the U.N. then Cool, I hope you can organise peace summits in teamspeak, or even better, in an arkified area to have some very civil debates on why some people demolished some other people's crib. #DUALDramaAlert

[Vyz Ejstu]

"No. Not UN. Something better. Both Cinderfall and the Aether agree that the UN, according to this lore is corrupt. Peregrin can do so much better and much more than the UN.--if he indeed wants to assume that role."

[SteveMcFarlane]

We never said that this would be forced upon every group. Members of the pact would take it upon themselves to follow it, and condemn those outside of it who use such barbarism as wiping out entire cities. Those who follow it will show themselves to be better than those outside of it.

Also, to a certain detractor, piracy is already an illegal act upon the nation groups, and if he wants to proactively go after pirates, then he should do so. We are not going to join him unless they give us a reason to. Nor would we approve of his likely tactics.

The only thing we will enforce outside of the pact groups is the ban on superweapons. Their existance is a threat to all, including those who have built them.

[Bella_Astrum]

We never said that this would be forced upon every group. Members of the pact would take it upon themselves to follow it, and condemn those outside of it who use such barbarism as wiping out entire cities. Those who follow it will show themselves to be better than those outside of it.

Also, to a certain detractor, piracy is already an illegal act upon the nation groups, and if he wants to proactively go after pirates, then he should do so. We are not going to join him unless they give us a reason to. Nor would we approve of his likely tactics.

The only thing we will enforce outside of the pact groups is the ban on superweapons. Their existance is a threat to all, including those who have built them.

 

Considering pirates have come in here of support of this, I'd suggest perhaps not doing so 

[GalloInfligo]

you lost me at mines

[Warden]

Perhaps not mines. I think the general idea is noble and we will work in that direction, but it should not so much be a direct copy of our own reality as we have no idea how the future or thinking in the future is. Humanity or those who left it lost their cradle. I can perfectly envision mines or even superweapons - as long as humanity does not slaughter itself to extinction with it.

 

But what of hostile xenofauna or possible hostile alien civilizations that may not be abstract theory or RP fluff thinking but actually find their way into the game at a later time?

 

In short, finding the right uses, restrictions or restraints is the thing.

[Ryoko_Takahashi]

The MP part has a classic team deathmatch component. Comparable to any other old or modern game with said component. On one map we were once able to enact a ceasefire for the heck of it. In a game or mode where the purpose is to combat the other team, we somehow enacted a ceasefire, met up in some place and "hung around" for the duration of the round.

 

Perhaps that is a little example for motivation in tackling things that seem "exotic" or similar.

 

I once had a similar thing happen in one of the old FPS games I used to play (I don't recall the name). We called a ceasefire, everyone hung out for awhile, then someone threw a grenade into the group.... Whether its because people have a reason or not, inevitably, someone will always throw a grenade into the mix.

 

From what I've read about the game, it sounds like there will be safe areas for everyone to propagate. Outside of that, due to the cost of building ships and equipment, it would be a risk/reward scenario for those who decide to toss that "grenade". Also, it would seem weapons will all be elements, and in some of the dev commentaries he even said that people won't be able to make Death Star type weapons. That being said, I only wonder if people will be able to drop warhead elements, similar to what some people do in SE. Either way, I'm really looking forward to seeing how things develop for DU

[Anaximander]

I once had a similar thing happen in one of the old FPS games I used to play (I don't recall the name). We called a ceasefire, everyone hung out for awhile, then someone threw a grenade into the group.... Whether its because people have a reason or not, inevitably, someone will always throw a grenade into the mix.

 

From what I've read about the game, it sounds like there will be safe areas for everyone to propagate. Outside of that, due to the cost of building ships and equipment, it would be a risk/reward scenario for those who decide to toss that "grenade". Also, it would seem weapons will all be elements, and in some of the dev commentaries he even said that people won't be able to make Death Star type weapons. That being said, I only wonder if people will be able to drop warhead elements, similar to what some people do in SE. Either way, I'm really looking forward to seeing how things develop for DU

Aside from the Arkship and some of the starting area, there's no perma-safezone. The safe-zones seem to be like "no guns firing" in an area under a force field to protect it. Enemy fleets and pummel that force field down and drop as many rocks or rockets they want down at you.

[Ryoko_Takahashi]

Sounds like some good PDS and AAA setups might be a good idea

[Undaren]

If I get more people in my organization I might help you out on keeping the peace and not a war conflict, besides my organization will be based on building politics diplomacy and wat so I can help you out on the political statse and on diplomacy,but as I said if I get more people at the moment I am just one if I get to be six or more then we can start to talk about that I'll join, gotta say I like your idea so gotta see what I'll do, hopefully I'll help