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Bitmouse

Construct Creator for Blueprint Design

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An in game Construct Creator would give designers the capacity to efficiently build, test, and iterate designs. This could be done in a way that utilizes current technology slated for development in the game. 

 

One method would be to use reformat-able zones. Players would spawn into these zones with a tool set similar to what is being implemented in pre-alpha. After the play session the zone is formatted. 

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I'd rather them spend time working on the multiplayer game than delaying things further. I don't mind waiting between test dates, and I don't care to build anything offline.

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The current game mode is a creative mode without the need for resources. NQ stated that blueprints from the alpha/beta will be useable at launch. This change would allow users to utilize the game engine without having to stress their servers. More bugs may be discovered in the engine. 

 

Also, it would increase the useable time for building, which is the main feature currently available during pre-alpha. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Bitmouse said:

The current game mode is a creative mode without the need for resources. NQ stated that blueprints from the alpha/beta will be useable at launch. This change would allow users to utilize the game engine without having to stress their servers. More bugs may be discovered in the engine. 

 

Also, it would increase the useable time for building, which is the main feature currently available during pre-alpha. 

 

 

The most important thing to test for DU is not building. Or pvp. Or rdms. Or scanning and mining. Or production. The most important thing is the server tech. 

And they should focus on that instead of fulfilling unpatient customers wishes

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I should be more clear on my overall intent. A creative mode would be a feature for the game. The capacity for designers to seamlessly build and test designs, with importable blueprints, would be an ease of use feature that would allow citizens to more quickly move into the exploration/population phase of the game.

 

Having played Empyrion, I found that when I moved into creative mode to building my spaceships/bases that it was an, "A-ha," moment, why wasn't I doing this before. 

 

It is a feature that is a better tool for content creation.

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3 minutes ago, Lethys said:

The most important thing to test for DU is not building. Or pvp. Or rdms. Or scanning and mining. Or production. The most important thing is the server tech. 

And they should focus on that instead of fulfilling unpatient customers wishes

I agree that the server tech is the most important thing. 

 

I am not so much feeling impatient as I think this is a feature which should be in the game and could be implemented before release.

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Just now, Bitmouse said:

I agree that the server tech is the most important thing. 

 

I am not so much feeling impatient as I think this is a feature which should be in the game and could be implemented before release.

Giving the user something to do is the honey which brings them to test the game, it can be made to serve the development cycle.

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Just now, Bitmouse said:

I agree that the server tech is the most important thing. 

 

I am not so much feeling impatient as I think this is a feature which should be in the game and could be implemented before release.

Again: DU is no single player game. It's a mmo and they always focused on that aspect.

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My guess is that this probably won't happen. I bet a significant part of the essential game functions are server-side, which would make this basically impossible.

 

EDIT: Also, it would be then *easier* for people to do their building offline, drastically cutting the number of players that would play online at all. You'd end up with a class of "player" who plays offline only just for creative mode.

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@Bitmouse

Did you notice the game's main sell is the ability to have thousands of people on one place, at one time?

Why would NQ want people to play the game ... offline.

Also, an offline mode will only lead to their work being pirated on an offline mode and inevitably, with Johny McNugget setting up a private server - which is what they wante to avoid. At worst, Chinese MMO "Universe Two" pops up six months later and NQ loses revenue to an F2P piece of crap ripoff MMO, even if it has not the cloud-based algorithms for the netcode.

You want to experiment on building? Do it in-game, online, like everyone else. No, you won't develope your super-weapon without people noticing, deal with it.

 

Yes,. if you don't watch out, people will come and blow your super weapon off the sky - or even worse - people may betray you and steal your ideas, cause that's a legit thing. 

Also, the current version is a test to find bugs, it's not even an MVP (minimum viable product) of a game yet, it's a tech demo.

Peace.

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2 minutes ago, Bitmouse said:

This concept isn't for single player. It is a tool for multiplayer.

A creative mode would take away from the multiplayer content. There would be too many people spending time in creative mode when they should be interacting with other people.

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13 minutes ago, wizardoftrash said:

My guess is that this probably won't happen. I bet a significant part of the essential game functions are server-side, which would make this basically impossible.

 

EDIT: Also, it would be then *easier* for people to do their building offline, drastically cutting the number of players that would play online at all. You'd end up with a class of "player" who plays offline only just for creative mode.

NQ already stated that this is a possibility: 

I am pointing out the arguments for this mode. It is true that there may be a class that would play the game only in this limited creative mode. However, this may not be a significant portion of those who would prefer to play online and may actually bring more people/creativity to the game.

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9 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

@Bitmouse

Did you notice the game's main sell is the ability to have thousands of people on one place, at one time?

Why would NQ want people to play the game ... offline.

Also, an offline mode will only lead to their work being pirated on an offline mode and inevitably, with Johny McNugget setting up a private server - which is what they wante to avoid. At worst, Chinese MMO "Universe Two" pops up six months later and NQ loses revenue to an F2P piece of crap ripoff MMO, even if it has not the cloud-based algorithms for the netcode.

You want to experiment on building? Do it in-game, online, like everyone else. No, you won't develope your super-weapon without people noticing, deal with it.

 

Yes,. if you don't watch out, people will come and blow your super weapon off the sky - or even worse - people may betray you and steal your ideas, cause that's a legit thing. 

Also, the current version is a test to find bugs, it's not even an MVP (minimum viable product) of a game yet, it's a tech demo.

Peace.

The offline mode could be built into the main engine. I think this would solve the piracy concerns.

 

One of the main features is to try out ideas and cut down on the in game cost of redesign and error correction, especially in massive systems. Also, the ability to fly continuously and not use resources cuts down the need to build struts or build in space (which may be prohibitive at first).

 

Blueprints are already going to be a part of the game. So we have to acknowledge the fact that superweapons are most likely at times going to pop out of nowhere.

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12 minutes ago, Myriad said:

A creative mode would take away from the multiplayer content. There would be too many people spending time in creative mode when they should be interacting with other people.

"It is true that there may be a class that would play the game only in this limited creative mode. However, this may not be a significant portion of those who would prefer to play online and may actually bring more people/creativity to the game." quoted from previous post, after this poster posted.

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3 minutes ago, Bitmouse said:

NQ already stated that this is a possibility: 

I am pointing out the arguments for this mode. It is true that there may be a class that would play the game only in this limited creative mode. However, this may not be a significant portion of those who would prefer to play online and may actually bring more people/creativity to the game.

 

NQ talked about the possibility for a "creative mode" for building yes, but not for an offline mode. If the game functioned on any significant level offline, piracy, modding, and private servers could become an issue. Monetization could become an issue (as it would be challenging to get the "offline" class of player to pay). And again most importantly, people using creative mode would therefor not actually be logged on, they would not be participating in the same game as the rest of us.

 

The main reason that we have something *like* creative mode during the pre-alpha is due to the lack of a crafting system, and the need to test construct mechanics including flight on a large scale with many players (and the easiest way to do that apart from spawning a bunch of free ships, is by giving everyone all the parts).

 

An offline mode simply might not be possible, especially if so much of the game's mechanics are server-side.

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2 minutes ago, Bitmouse said:

The offline mode could be built into the main engine. I think this would solve the piracy concerns.

 

One of the main features is to try out ideas and cut down on the in game cost of redesign and error correction, especially in massive systems. Also, the ability to fly continuously and not use resources cuts down the need to build struts or build in space (which may be prohibitive at first).

 

Blueprints are already going to be a part of the game. So we have to acknowledge the fact that superweapons are most likely at times going to pop out of nowhere.


It's called R&D, it's part of the whole "economy" thing NQ wants for the game.

 

Also, do you know of the legendary "Control + Z" right? It's an arcane technique used by the monks of Silicon Valley to Undo things they did and it found its way into the world of the court jesters and game developers is now a common feature of many voxel games. You made a mistake ? Undo.

Also, building single player features into an online game never stopped Call of Duty's campaign from being pirated. It's why Destiny 2, a signleplayer game has the audacity to claim it's an MMO so people won't bitch about its always online DRM. Oh wait, I can hear the feint echoes of the hordes of peasants with their pitchforks coming at me...

In all seriousness, you're better off asking for a "holographic" building mode, where you can experiment with a "holgoraphic construct" while in-game, online, in plain view (or not, most R&D happens underground ,ask Area 51, they know what they are doing ).

Just leave single-player offline ideas to rot with Empyrion and Space Engineers. They don't belong in DU.

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2 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Just leave single-player offline ideas to rot with Empyrion and Space Engineers. They don't belong in DU.

It really only works with Empyrion and Space Engineers *because* the game is built to be run single-player and run like garbage in multiplayer. If you take a game like DU that isn't built to be run in single player, there is just no easy way to simply add single player without creating serious problems. And then what, you end up with a free modded version of the game getting shared on 4chan and private servers popping up that look more like 2nd life and all that work is for nothing.

 

Now the ability to use creative mode to blueprint a construct while online, I could see that being a feature that could eventually be added post-release (having a prototyping bay or something), however it would get pretty dang complicated if you also needed to be able to test those constructs. Its one thing if you are plopping down voxels and elements you don't have just to produce a file, but for the game to make an instanced version that works gets tricky, and opens up the door for potential exploits.

 

I think the way constructs will behave during the construction process should be pretty predictable, and between in-game tutorials, wikis, and safe zones, there should be plenty of ways to mess around with building constructs that doesn't involve creative mode equivalent.

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14 minutes ago, wizardoftrash said:

NQ talked about the possibility for a "creative mode" for building yes, but not for an offline mode. If the game functioned on any significant level offline, piracy, modding, and private servers could become an issue. Monetization could become an issue (as it would be challenging to get the "offline" class of player to pay). And again most importantly, people using creative mode would therefor not actually be logged on, they would not be participating in the same game as the rest of us.

 

The main reason that we have something *like* creative mode during the pre-alpha is due to the lack of a crafting system, and the need to test construct mechanics including flight on a large scale with many players (and the easiest way to do that apart from spawning a bunch of free ships, is by giving everyone all the parts).

 

An offline mode simply might not be possible, especially if so much of the game's mechanics are server-side.

Perhaps offline mode is the wrong terminology for me to have used, as the offline component isn't relevant. The component which is relevant is the capacity to build/revise creations and export to blueprint. This could be integrated into a system wherein the user still had to login, circumventing many of the concerns you mentioned. In fact it could be hosted on a low resource server to address all the concerns, however,  would that really be necessary?

 

Is piracy more possible with a client hosted creative mode? If no then it would bring more content and people to the game than it would likely take.

 

Is piracy a bad thing for a game? Many industries build piracy into their profit models and account for it as a form of loss. Piracy wouldn't take away from the main thing that Novaquark can offer which is access to the game's main population. This is akin to World of Warcraft and the various pirate servers. What's more is that the pirate servers can't keep up technologically. 

 

It is likely that this form of piracy accounts for a percentage of the main games population that is in the lower end of single digit percentages and many of these people are people who wouldn't or couldn't afford to play the main game.

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9 minutes ago, Bitmouse said:

Perhaps offline mode is the wrong terminology for me to have used, as the offline component isn't relevant. The component which is relevant is the capacity to build/revise creations and export to blueprint. This could be integrated into a system wherein the user still had to login, circumventing many of the concerns you mentioned. In fact it could be hosted on a low resource server to address all the concerns, however,  would that really be necessary?

 

Is piracy more possible with a client hosted creative mode? If no then it would bring more content and people to the game than it would likely take.

 

Is piracy a bad thing for a game? Many industries build piracy into their profit models and account for it as a form of loss. Piracy wouldn't take away from the main thing that Novaquark can offer which is access to the game's main population. This is akin to World of Warcraft and the various pirate servers. What's more is that the pirate servers can't keep up technologically. 

 

It is likely that this form of piracy accounts for a percentage of the main games population that is in the lower end of single digit percentages and many of these people are people who wouldn't or couldn't afford to play the main game.

Yeah piracy is generally something you want to avoid.

 

But lets think nice and hard about what you are asking for here. Either creating yet another parallel server, hosting private instances for each player who is experimenting with creative mode, or building a whole accessory program that allows a player to run a creative mode single player client offline... so that the people what are already playing the game and building stuff can build blueprints of things they can't afford to build in-game.

 

I just don't see how that could possibly be worth the money or man-hours it would take to make it work. It would add so little to the game, it would actually reduce the active player count and run counter the game's purpose, and it decreases the actual construct count in-game to boot (because if you are building something in creative, that same construct isn't being built in the actual game, and there is no guarantee it ever will).

 

Just wait till Saturday hits and try-out what they already have. then re-visit if you think something like that would really actually add to the game.

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2 hours ago, Bitmouse said:

The current game mode is a creative mode without the need for resources.

 

 

And the current mode is pre-alpha. I don't think you understand what you asking for here.

Simply to provide mockup of their server architecture to run on your local machine.. Is not going to happen.

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1 hour ago, Bitmouse said:

Perhaps offline mode is the wrong terminology for me to have used, as the offline component isn't relevant. The component which is relevant is the capacity to build/revise creations and export to blueprint. This could be integrated into a system wherein the user still had to login, circumventing many of the concerns you mentioned. In fact it could be hosted on a low resource server to address all the concerns, however,  would that really be necessary?

 

Is piracy more possible with a client hosted creative mode? If no then it would bring more content and people to the game than it would likely take.

 

Is piracy a bad thing for a game? Many industries build piracy into their profit models and account for it as a form of loss. Piracy wouldn't take away from the main thing that Novaquark can offer which is access to the game's main population. This is akin to World of Warcraft and the various pirate servers. What's more is that the pirate servers can't keep up technologically. 

 

It is likely that this form of piracy accounts for a percentage of the main games population that is in the lower end of single digit percentages and many of these people are people who wouldn't or couldn't afford to play the main game.

So you're in favor of:

- splitting the community into builders who just want to build anda everyone else

- RL piracy. Those guys who take money from nq to get smth they want

- pirate servers (again splitting the community)

- pirate servers (people who play there DON'T pay nq as they should, so they're RL pirate too)

- You defend those guys because "hey, they couldn't pay for a sub so it's not that bad. At least they can play DU. But yeah, sucks for nq because they lose money"

 

Are you serious? Wtf is wrong with you? Sorry but I just can't understand you there. At all. 

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2 hours ago, wizardoftrash said:

 

Yeah piracy is generally something you want to avoid.

 

But lets think nice and hard about what you are asking for here. Either creating yet another parallel server, hosting private instances for each player who is experimenting with creative mode, or building a whole accessory program that allows a player to run a creative mode single player client offline... so that the people what are already playing the game and building stuff can build blueprints of things they can't afford to build in-game.

 

I just don't see how that could possibly be worth the money or man-hours it would take to make it work. It would add so little to the game, it would actually reduce the active player count and run counter the game's purpose, and it decreases the actual construct count in-game to boot (because if you are building something in creative, that same construct isn't being built in the actual game, and there is no guarantee it ever will).

 

Just wait till Saturday hits and try-out what they already have. then re-visit if you think something like that would really actually add to the game.

I don't have the brain power atm to address your two previous posts, but I will try to. I will just say for now that I still think it adds more to the game than it takes away, and I will explain why.

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