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Solo player posibilities


Miamato

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1 hour ago, Hades said:

This is a very narrow mindset.  There is a VERY dynamic PvE experience, or at least with what is planned.

In what dev diary did they discuss PVE?

 

or in what Kickstarter update post did they talk about it?

 

Is there a page on their site talking about PVE plans? no? I see.

 

Now based on the lore however, one might assume that in an expansion we could see Hostile AI. JC is an AI specialist after all. But to talk about people getting into the game day 1 as a solo player who is ready for some PVE, there are going to be some real dissapointed folks. This kinda false hype is in-part how No Man's Sky happened. (EDIT what i mean here by hostile AI is that there might eventually be PVE in the form of an in-game hostile AI based on the lore, since its part of the lore's background that AI was a threat on-earth and that they were banned).

Edited by wizardoftrash
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1 hour ago, wizardoftrash said:

In what dev diary did they discuss PVE?

 

or in what Kickstarter update post did they talk about it?

 

Is there a page on their site talking about PVE plans? no? I see.

 

Now based on the lore however, one might assume that in an expansion we could see Hostile AI. JC is an AI specialist after all. But to talk about people getting into the game day 1 as a solo player who is ready for some PVE, there are going to be some real dissapointed folks. This kinda false hype is in-part how No Man's Sky happened.

PvE != AI.

 

No where has AI been mentioned in this thread, my post or otherwise.

 

There is a TON of PvE content in DU, as I have stated previously.

 

But you clearly didn't read, or ignored what I said.  I don't think this discussion will get anywhere.

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Yep, if you're into PvE look into the game mechanics laid out in the Dev Diaries (especially the blog posts) and decide if you'd like the PvE laid out for this game.  If all there was to do was PvP in this game, it would become dull quite fast.  But the only way to decide is for yourself 

 

Definitely don't expect full-blown AI species and missions as that will probably not happen.  It's just not in the scope of the game.  Play star citizen for that.

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PvE content is essentially PvP content without (or limited) other player involvement. Such activities include exploration, building, mining and salvaging. However, it is likely that during PvE activities you will encounter PvP content (since negotiations are also PvP), for example being attacked by pirates or being questioned by a border patrol. 

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On 9/25/2017 at 3:57 PM, Miamato said:

Hello, 

I'm considering to buy some package and need some answer regarding how real it would be to play solo. So the main thing that does not make much sense now is claim system for me. As I saw from dev blogs and interviews your will be able to claim territory but at the same time pvp zone is everywhere except close area from mother ship. So the questions are:

1) are you allowed to build bases only if territory is claimed? or claim is more for management and taxes purpose? 

2) are there any plans to add kind of reinforce system like in eve? or if someone finds your base/ship - he can destroy or steal everyting at a time?

3) if I want to play solo with rare visits to other civilization - how real it would be to settle some far away system that won't be found or visited frequently? 

4) I doubt I would be able to play without brakes and I don't like big alliances.  So in the initial idea of the game does it mean that if you are overblobbed - then you have no chances? 

 

I like the idea of the game, and I understand that if developer company will make the game hard enough to stimulate community cooperation - everything should be more or less stable and calm at least for the first time. But there is a big chance of toxic people appearing that would be just camping of some warp points or borders of safe area, etc. So from what I saw and heard on interviews I have feelings that this game is not for solo players that want to explore and build some stuff outside safe zone. Please tell me that I'm wrong :)

In general, the game will be very punishing for people who want to play totally solo, in the sense of being on your own. I recommend joining an organization that either allows solo operators within its territory, such as the Empire, where you could live on the very outskirts of their territory for low cost, or in a frontier territory, and you would still be relatively protected since as long as you are paying your property taxes they will be obligated to defend you. Plus of course for their pride.

 

I haven't seen many yet, but there will also likely be many "homestead" or "coalition" type organizations made up of people who want to play by themselves or with a small group of people, but will work together for defense. You/they would claim a territory in an obscure, resource depleted section of the universe (think Tatooine in Star Wars) and hopefully be left alone for the most part, just band together for the occasional pirate raid and lay low, make sure that you don't have anything that is worth the trouble of a larger organization taking it from you, and progress that way.

 

That won't be super sustainable though given the nature of expansion in Dual Universe. Because of the high cost to expand to other systems, it will be a while before there are planets that can truly fly under the radar. In the beginning sure there will probably be fewer players, but they will be condensed into a single system with only a handful of planets. It will be hard to find territory that nobody important cares about owning.

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Of Couse  you can be a solo player in a single shard  game of maybe millions but I am not sure why  you would want to ? Solo will be doable but very hard I'm sure ! If you don't like big groups why not join a small organization or if you don't want responsibility join a organization that gives its members lots of freedom and doesn't really care what they do? 

Personally I can imagine solo being slow and tedious on a slower learning curve compared to those in organizations that help each other but maybe some like more of a challenge ? 

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5 hours ago, GunDeva said:

Of Couse  you can be a solo player in a single shard  game of maybe millions but I am not sure why  you would want to ?

It's quite simple. Usually after some time when I get bored from corporation life it's interesting to try to survive on my own. 

9 hours ago, The Doctor said:

I haven't seen many yet, but there will also likely be many "homestead" or "coalition" type organizations made up of people who want to play by themselves or with a small group of people, but will work together for defense.

There is a major issue with such coalitions. When they are small - this may work pretty fine. But the bigger this coalition becomes, more people won't be participating in defense, just waiting that someone else will do that. Then we will come to a point when such corporations need specialized PVP wing for defense, everyone else will be treated like citizens and will be just taxed. Another side of this situation is that living on someones claim puts you under risk that at some point this corporation will turn against it's citizens. 

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2 hours ago, Miamato said:

... Another side of this situation is that living on someones claim puts you under risk that at some point this corporation will turn against it's citizens. 

I'd imagine the greatest risk is that your landlord gets into a fight with some other group and the "tenants" get caught in the crossfire. The landlord will always try to protect his own assets first, anything else will get protection if there's spare capacity.

 

Additionally, tenants are seen as legit targets, given that they provide the landlord with additional income.

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19 hours ago, wizardoftrash said:

In what dev diary did they discuss PVE?

 

or in what Kickstarter update post did they talk about it?

 

Is there a page on their site talking about PVE plans? no? I see.

 

Now based on the lore however, one might assume that in an expansion we could see Hostile AI. JC is an AI specialist after all. But to talk about people getting into the game day 1 as a solo player who is ready for some PVE, there are going to be some real dissapointed folks. This kinda false hype is in-part how No Man's Sky happened. (EDIT what i mean here by hostile AI is that there might eventually be PVE in the form of an in-game hostile AI based on the lore, since its part of the lore's background that AI was a threat on-earth and that they were banned).

 

16 hours ago, mrjacobean said:

PvE content is essentially PvP content without (or limited) other player involvement. Such activities include exploration, building, mining and salvaging. However, it is likely that during PvE activities you will encounter PvP content (since negotiations are also PvP), for example being attacked by pirates or being questioned by a border patrol. 

 

I think you two are arguing about two different types of PvE.

 

Wizard is talking about Player VS. Enemy

 

Jaco is talking about Player VS Environment

 

Both PvE types aren't gonna exist until after launch though. PvEnemy for sure, they've stated that definitively.

 

PvEnviro is not exploration, builing, mining and salvaging. PvEnviro would be limited visibilty due to a storm, landing on a planet and there being freezing temps, reducing move speed, Acid Planets, Lava planets. Maybe it could be flying, because you're fighting the physics environment, but that's a stretch.

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11 hours ago, GunDeva said:

Of Couse  you can be a solo player in a single shard  game of maybe millions but I am not sure why  you would want to ? Solo will be doable but very hard I'm sure ! If you don't like big groups why not join a small organization or if you don't want responsibility join a organization that gives its members lots of freedom and doesn't really care what they do? 

Personally I can imagine solo being slow and tedious on a slower learning curve compared to those in organizations that help each other but maybe some like more of a challenge ? 

Semantics are pretty irrelevant.  The important thing to take away is that PvE players have a spot in DU, and saying otherwise is inherently wrong.

 

IMHO (which is semantics) building constructs, exploration, creating various in-game services (i.e. Casino), scripting, mining, and especially politics are all PvE.

 

Yes, the game revolves around PvP... and you can't escape it, but you can play the game without seeking out PvP.

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25 minutes ago, Hades said:

Semantics are pretty irrelevant. 

...

Yes, the game revolves around PvP... and you can't escape it, but you can play the game without seeking out PvP.

Semantics are actually vitally important.

 

For instance, I'd phrase that last part of the sentence as: "...but you can play the game while trying to avoid PVP."

 

Subtle difference, but the emphasis shift is significant.

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On 9/26/2017 at 3:23 PM, Miamato said:

From interviews I saw, it seems only small starting area would be safe, but if I decide to move much deeper into space - flying to safe zone may take much time. So if I can play ~1-2 hours per day, I won't be happy to spend half of that time just for flying from safe zone to deep space zone.

Perhaps you could hitch a ride aboard a freighter or something that will get you into deep space without much involvement on your part. Before you log off one night, buy a ticket, hop aboard the freighter, and log off. The next evening or the next day, log back in and see where you're at, hopefully you don't miss your stop!

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43 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

Semantics are actually vitally important.

 

For instance, I'd phrase that last part of the sentence as: "...but you can play the game while trying to avoid PVP."

 

Subtle difference, but the emphasis shift is significant.

Not seeking it out is a better phrasing imho.  You can't truly avoid pvp.  But once again, what's the importance in making the distinction between the two?  There isn't.

 

Similarly, I don't believe semantics are important whatsoever when it comes to PvE.  I might think PvE encompasses most things not PvP.  Someone else might think PvE is only against written AI.  All of that is irrelevant.  The fact remains that a player will be able to mine, build, rule, etc etc without seeking out pvp.

 

You say semantics are vitally important, but don't back it up whatsoever.  The only time "semantics" are important is when NQ is relaying information to the public.  For example, if they left it at "there is PvE options in the game".  We'd have no idea what that would mean.  Rather, NQ must relay that there will NOT be AI enemies of any kind.

 

However, at that point I'd say it's more written word and clarification than semantics. 

 

However, the point of this thread is whether or not a small group or singular person can enjoy DU, and the answer is inexplicably yes.  Whether it's being a lone bandit, or a content creator... there's something for you in DU

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PVE means 'player versus environment' any thing to do with existing and working different biomes, planets, finding rare materials, mining and exploring is PVE, building , joy rides and living in residences , as someone said build a casino (i was one of the first to think of a casino in UO then other shards copied lol). Sure you will get attacked at some stage, but thats all part of the fun of a survival sandbox, just be prepared that you will get attacked, and have a backup plan always, building skills by training , farming materials , surveying, mapping (cartrography), collecting stuff, researching items , finding what fits where ? its all PVE.

 

cheers:)

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None of those are Player VS Environment, which is why semantics are important. The versus would imply conflict. What conflict is there in building a casino that isn't player conflict? There aren't any earthquakes you have to build up to code for, there's no acid rain which you have to shield against. Skill training is done over time anyways, there's literally no way it could be construed as vs the environment, or enemy.

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16 minutes ago, CommanderLouiz said:

None of those are Player VS Environment, which is why semantics are important. The versus would imply conflict.

It's just about how you treat things around you. For example I hate and I'm getting nervous when there is too much ore around me, I cannot sleep and I need to conquer it by mining. That actually is a conflict and those stupid ore will pay for everything when becomes a brick in my base wall, my endless slave ;) 

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1 hour ago, Hades said:

Not seeking it out is a better phrasing imho.  You can't truly avoid pvp.  But once again, what's the importance in making the distinction between the two?  There isn't.

 

...

That's why semantics are important.

 

"Not seeking out" implies that something can be avoided if you do not pursue it.

 

"While trying to avoid" implies that something is seeking YOU out, which is an accurate reflection of DU game play. Trouble will actively come looking for you, whether you look for it or not.

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10 hours ago, Miamato said:

It's quite simple. Usually after some time when I get bored from corporation life it's interesting to try to survive on my own. 

There is a major issue with such coalitions. When they are small - this may work pretty fine. But the bigger this coalition becomes, more people won't be participating in defense, just waiting that someone else will do that. Then we will come to a point when such corporations need specialized PVP wing for defense, everyone else will be treated like citizens and will be just taxed. Another side of this situation is that living on someones claim puts you under risk that at some point this corporation will turn against it's citizens. 

True, I agree that when the game gets that developed the better way to run such a coalition is to simply tax, probably based on property/territory, everyone inside of your coalition and then pay a security corp/mercenaries to protect that area. As the game gets more developed, like in EVE people who want to protect areas of space and maintaining their power/the status quo will form large alliances out of smaller powers and individuals to protect their sections of space. That is usually how such "federations" work is everyone involved pays in a set percentage or price, then the entire area of space is protected from outside forces. Then your biggest threat will be politics and subterfuge.

 

At the end of the day though, if you want to be alone in an ever expanding universe, you will have to always live on the frontier, and the frontiers of today are the city centers of tomorrow. You can either go out and use your position to your advantage, welcome growth and attempt  to take advantage, or every time it becomes possible for you to move out further, that is what you will have to do. It will be really hard to live alone in this universe, just like it is in reality except as technology and infrastructure progresses Dual Universe will feature a much greater degree of interconnection.

 

Like I said before, your best bet for a permanent, relatively secure home where you can be left alone, is the outskirts of a major power's territory. Join the Empire, or something like that, where they will attempt to keep a large amount of buffer space around their centers of power. You can live in the outskirts of this space for relatively low cost, you will probably be relatively restricted in terms of how much expansion you can do, and you will still be subject to their government, but you will be secure which will be really important in such an open ended game.

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5 hours ago, The Doctor said:

True, I agree that when the game gets that developed the better way to run such a coalition is to simply tax, probably based on property/territory, everyone inside of your coalition and then pay a security corp/mercenaries to protect that area. As the game gets more developed, like in EVE people who want to protect areas of space and maintaining their power/the status quo will form large alliances out of smaller powers and individuals to protect their sections of space. That is usually how such "federations" work is everyone involved pays in a set percentage or price, then the entire area of space is protected from outside forces. Then your biggest threat will be politics and subterfuge.

 

At the end of the day though, if you want to be alone in an ever expanding universe, you will have to always live on the frontier, and the frontiers of today are the city centers of tomorrow. You can either go out and use your position to your advantage, welcome growth and attempt  to take advantage, or every time it becomes possible for you to move out further, that is what you will have to do. It will be really hard to live alone in this universe, just like it is in reality except as technology and infrastructure progresses Dual Universe will feature a much greater degree of interconnection.

 

Like I said before, your best bet for a permanent, relatively secure home where you can be left alone, is the outskirts of a major power's territory. Join the Empire, or something like that, where they will attempt to keep a large amount of buffer space around their centers of power. You can live in the outskirts of this space for relatively low cost, you will probably be relatively restricted in terms of how much expansion you can do, and you will still be subject to their government, but you will be secure which will be really important in such an open ended game.

"Dual Universe will feature a much greater degree of interconnection." I don't even know what that means.

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It seems that the definition of what PVE is varies wildly here. To me, PVE would mean you interact in some way with the game environment with a certain degree of risk to you. Gathering resources would not be PVE and neither would constructing ships. PVE would be when you take the ship you built and use it to attack, or manipulate at least, an NPC based entity. Right now afaik this is not an option nor is it planned  in DU so right now there is no PVE element in DU.

 

Will this change in the future? Maybe, games like Albion Online started as pure PVP but PVE content was added during development as it was something many backers wanted to see. While there will not be (again afaik) an option to add mods in DU, it may be possible to use LUA to add PVE elements but is this PVE? you would be up against another player's creation so it would really be PVP even if the other player might be afk..

 

With JC's background in AI I would find it hard to discard the possibility of something like an alien race revealing itself somewhere down the line in development, something NQ would obviously not discuss right  now, but I'd say it is a distinct possibility.

 

I guess we'll find out what is or is not possible as we go and that's part of the fun.. 

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3 hours ago, blazemonger said:

It seems that the definition of what PVE is varies wildly here. To me, PVE would mean you interact in some way with the game environment with a certain degree of risk to you. Gathering resources would not be PVE and neither would constructing ships. PVE would be when you take the ship you built and use it to attack, or manipulate at least, an NPC based entity. Right now afaik this is not an option nor is it planned  in DU so right now there is no PVE element in DU.

 

Will this change in the future? Maybe, games like Albion Online started as pure PVP but PVE content was added during development as it was something many backers wanted to see. While there will not be (again afaik) an option to add mods in DU, it may be possible to use LUA to add PVE elements but is this PVE? you would be up against another player's creation so it would really be PVP even if the other player might be afk..

 

With JC's background in AI I would find it hard to discard the possibility of something like an alien race revealing itself somewhere down the line in development, something NQ would obviously not discuss right  now, but I'd say it is a distinct possibility.

 

I guess we'll find out what is or is not possible as we go and that's part of the fun.. 

So from what we know about the scanning and mining mechanics that NQ has already discussed, there will be *some* degree of actual environmental risk during Mining in the form of magma pockets. Players will have to be careful while mining deep underground or they would risk being killed. However apart from that, and pilot error (like running out of fuel while in space), There isn't much E in PVE that has been confirmed for launch. I do agree though that based on JC's background, we will eventually see actual enemy NPC activity in the game, but I have a hunch it'll be in the form of robotic AI rather than Aliens based on the game's lore. That, or the threat will be associated with the other Ark ships.

 

For the most part though, the bulk of opposing force a player will be up against will be other players, even in such a time as Hostile NPC's are implemented. Even games like Rust has some PVE elements to them, but by far the biggest threat to a Rust player's existence is the dozens of other players that will kill them on-site or attempt to enslave.

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