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Resource Processing


ClockworkRose

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Many exploring and mining type games have a way to process raw material collected into a usable form. Imagine in minecraft smelting iron ore to create iron ingots.

 

I would like to propose a similar system for DU, but one that allows substantial factories, with complex inputs and outputs.The basic idea is that with exponential increased complexity of a refinery, you get linearly increased yields of materials. Similar to how some mods in Minecraft work (ic2, mechanism, etc) and several other games work.

 

So a simple smelter would turn 100 units of ore into 100 units of metal, but maybe adding ore washing gives 106 units of metal. and then adding an input of flux, grinding, and sifting gives you 112 units of metal. Real life ore refining has many steps with many machines, feedback loops, inputs, and outputs. Add to that there is no reason to stick with real life limits in this game. Maybe a matter fusactor can take some of the rock scrap and break it down to get the last bits of ore.

 

As an example of how far you can go, with a pile of machines and process, look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_refinery#Common_process_units_found_in_a_refinery

There is a list of common processes involved, many of which require different inputs, output, feedback, and have multiple working parts.

RefineryFlow.png

 

 

Constructing and running a large complex orbital refinery seems like a blast. A nice part about this system is it doesn't really impact normal gameplay. You could still make your iron with a smelter, and at a reasonable rate. You just get increased efficiency with increased investment.

 

Devs could add the system later, and / or add onto the system later. Little changes by adding such a system into the game post release. The system is inherently balanced because of linear gain from exponential effort. This means that (assuming last level is high enough) only the biggest refineries could justify implementing it.

 

Anyway, that's my idea. I'm captivated by the image of pipes running all over between machines, with conveyors and furnaces burning, all infront of the backdrop of a planet.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

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I love the idea of a complicated process like this! but not mandatory as you said have a simplified process for those who do not. Just the more complicated the more efficient.

 

I would like to have it for both refining and production though.

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All the support for ClockworkRose! /o/

 

 

I'd love to have some complex system of mineral processing using ever more and ever larger machinations.

It always annoyed me that "refineries" in voxel games are so tiny.

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I have to point one little thing. I believe all of you are aware of basic tool, right? The one attached to avatars arm... Now compare this tool, which will obviously working on basic elements level, with this heavy industrial system... I'm all for getting things more difficult, complicated, but I can't shake feeling it will not fit. To be honest I'd rather to see tools like drill, grinder and other more humanish, less advanced tools with all this industrial ideas.

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you dont need a phd to play factorio either and that is more confusing when you look at an already established factory :P

 

factorio is also a good example of how building complex production chains should feel.

perfectly fine and logical when you do it yourself.

gigantic, confusing and a messy when you look at it as an outsider because of its complexity and size

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I've built some crazy shit in Space Engineers that I'm sure baffled a few of my faction mates, but I knew what everything did, so it was fine.  Having automatic sorting systems and an automatic baseline inventory of finished components can look confusing but it is not hard to make.

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I agree the wrist thing should be able to do this once you learn the skill etc to do it, like the dev post avout the indestructible metal.... So lets say i dont have that skill, but have a great mining skill and you sell me the meshes to refine it..... Now that is one reason to have this kind of system, and at the same time have the nano device do it, once you have the skill to do so

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you dont need a phd to play factorio either and that is more confusing when you look at an already established factory :P

 

factorio is also a good example of how building complex production chains should feel.

perfectly fine and logical when you do it yourself.

gigantic, confusing and a messy when you look at it as an outsider because of its complexity and size

Never heard of factorio till now. But I agree with you. It should be very easy and simple and organic on a small scale but can grow and develop to appear complex. Not something like that diagram in OP where a single unit requires many elements to function.

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Never heard of factorio till now. But I agree with you. It should be very easy and simple and organic on a small scale but can grow and develop to appear complex. Not something like that diagram in OP where a single unit requires many elements to function.

 

so you dont want alloys to be a thing?

you dont want components to need multiple input resources to be produced?

you dont want equipment to need multiple components, materials and alloys to be produced?

because that is what you say you want with "single unit requires many elements to function" :P

 

and also: how does the complexity of the above diagram prevent it from being a grown construct?

most of the sub elements produce something you could use in many different locations as well, its not that the whole thing has exactly one input and exactly one output.

the whole refinery can start out as an inefficient plant to produce /one/ of the outputs or do one of the paths to the gasoline mixing pool (which, to my knowledge, should already give viable fuel) and expand from there to utilise more of its previous waste products to produce more gasoline/diesel/asphalt/sulphur etc.

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so you dont want alloys to be a thing?

you dont want components to need multiple input resources to be produced?

you dont want equipment to need multiple components, materials and alloys to be produced?

because that is what you say you want with "single unit requires many elements to function" :P

 

and also: how does the complexity of the above diagram prevent it from being a grown construct?

most of the sub elements produce something you could use in many different locations as well, its not that the whole thing has exactly one input and exactly one output.

the whole refinery can start out as an inefficient plant to produce /one/ of the outputs or do one of the paths to the gasoline mixing pool (which, to my knowledge, should already give viable fuel) and expand from there to utilise more of its previous waste products to produce more gasoline/diesel/asphalt/sulphur etc.

 

Now, now now, don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about alloys or multiple inputs or outputs. I am saying that we should have something more like IC2 from minecraft: Each machine is a single unit, capable of working to change X into Y. A factory is made by piping up those machines together. A single machine isn't comprised of multiple blocks.

 

Simple processes should require only a single element, like turning raw iron ore into steel, or oil into gas. To turn raw ores into fancy components for space ships, that ought to require multiple processes and therefore multiple machines.

 

Perhaps this is exactly what you and others want, but I don't want to see something complex like OP's diagram for something that should have no more than 3 elements to produce fuel from oil, or whatever energy source we'll see.

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Now, now now, don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about alloys or multiple inputs or outputs. I am saying that we should have something more like IC2 from minecraft: Each machine is a single unit, capable of working to change X into Y. A factory is made by piping up those machines together. A single machine isn't comprised of multiple blocks.

 

Simple processes should require only a single element, like turning raw iron ore into steel, or oil into gas. To turn raw ores into fancy components for space ships, that ought to require multiple processes and therefore multiple machines.

 

Perhaps this is exactly what you and others want, but I don't want to see something complex like OP's diagram for something that should have no more than 3 elements to produce fuel from oil, or whatever energy source we'll see.

 

There is no "correct build". Its essentially all balanced around the quantity of material you wish to process. If you have a small amount, its not worth it (economically) to spend / create a larger processing setup. In addition, I'd imagine schematics and processes for the later machines would be rare, and would require ever more expensive materials to create. Essentially you have to make a choice in how far down the tech tree you need to go for your situation.

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so you dont want alloys to be a thing?

you dont want components to need multiple input resources to be produced?

you dont want equipment to need multiple components, materials and alloys to be produced?

because that is what you say you want with "single unit requires many elements to function" :P

 

and also: how does the complexity of the above diagram prevent it from being a grown construct?

most of the sub elements produce something you could use in many different locations as well, its not that the whole thing has exactly one input and exactly one output.

the whole refinery can start out as an inefficient plant to produce /one/ of the outputs or do one of the paths to the gasoline mixing pool (which, to my knowledge, should already give viable fuel) and expand from there to utilise more of its previous waste products to produce more gasoline/diesel/asphalt/sulphur etc.

 

I agree that simple processes like oil->gas should only Require a single simple machine. Infact, your nano arm -thingy should probably be able to do everything in small quantities.

 

My proposed system is meant to be for increasing efficiency. I posted to picture / link to show an example of how complex such systems get in real life.

 

I think that the secondary outputs of such a system should not be single sourced. For instance, one of the outputs in the image linked is coke. You should be able to turn oil -> coke from your arm thing or a simple coke oven machine. The benefit of the large processing system is you get some coke and more gas per unit of input.

 

The system is not meant block the obtaining of any resource, only improve it.

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I have to point one little thing. I believe all of you are aware of basic tool, right? The one attached to avatars arm... Now compare this tool, which will obviously working on basic elements level, with this heavy industrial system... I'm all for getting things more difficult, complicated, but I can't shake feeling it will not fit. To be honest I'd rather to see tools like drill, grinder and other more humanish, less advanced tools with all this industrial ideas.

There will always be your nano factory thing to make any resource you want. This is just to enable... Industrial quantities and efficiencies.

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I love the idea of a complicated process like this! but not mandatory as you said have a simplified process for those who do not. Just the more complicated the more efficient.

 

I would like to have it for both refining and production though.

I agree, i am more interested in building a ship and exploring. I would prefer not to spend a large amount of time going through a complicated process of refining substances. If i have to babysit a process and it detracts from what I personally consider to be the fun in the game, then the game quickly looses the appeal. If you make the process too complicated then you cut out the people who want to do other stuff in the game.

 

What would i recomend?

 

there are a couple of viable options.

 

1. Make basic and advanced systems, but reward players that choose to go through the advanced option by making it more profitable or efficient

 

2. Make a very robust player market system where instead of going through a long refining process i can simply buy what i need using in game credits

 

3. make it complex, but for those of us that dont want to do it, give us the ability to assign an AI system or helper to manage it. (of course you have to build your AI system)

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