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Debate 4: Potential Power Generators

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Today I thought I would talk about the different ways power could be generated in game. There are a great many things to discuss today, so lets get right into our topic. 

 

 

After reading around I have yet to see a huge amount talked about on the current subject so here is a few of my ideas on generators & power sources as well as potential effects and other assorted attachments.

 

 

 

Low yield power generation:

These forms of generators would more than likely be used early on in starting the game. Some of which may come pre shipped on the ARK, and fuel would be readily accessible to either produce or harvest.

 

  • Solar power cells - not terribly efficient at generating power unless in massive arrays - require capacitors or batteries to store power long term. Are effected by weather effects.
  • Bio-fuel Generators - essentially a generator that burns organic matter to generate heat to generate current. Potentially provides a use for trees - wood - and even coal as a resource. Would require water to keep cool, or just kept at low operating temperature. 
  • Geothermal - not sure if there are going to be heated areas on planets - but would be a interesting concept to go around. Provides easy infinite resource of heat to use to generate current. Downside - may be uncommon to find on planet, but when located do provide a inexhaustible source of current for running long term operations. 
  • Wind turbines - same area as solar - but instead of relying on sun they work on wind. Work far more efficiently in areas of high altitude, current generation is tied on cycle factor of wind being present. If wind is however not present - no current is generated. 
  • Hydro-electric - if there is water nearby it can be moved under pressure to generate current. Is limited to the amount of water stock piled, requires infrastructure to be built beforehand. 

 

 

Then as we progress along, we get towards the mid range of power generation. These generate significantly more power than the low yield tier, but some do have side effects and or things that can go wrong. The mid range tier is more suited towards powering ships and other larger objects, instead of ground based facilities. 

 

Mid range power generation:

 

  • Fission reactors / Nuclear power - allows for steady generation of power via the use of enriched uranium - via uranium oxides / ores on planets and asteroids. Hazardous if containment is ruptured - radiation exposure throughout facility and or ship. Can cause fatalities. Suggest protecting in well hardened area. Generates enough current to power small ships and fair sized ground facilities. 
  • Fusion reactors - similar to nuclear except instead of trying to pull apart atoms it fuses them together. Hazardous if magnetic containment is breached - imagine plasma at the temperature of the sun leeching into your facility or ship. Can cause fatalities, and ship destruction. Suggest protecting in well hardened area. 
  • Cold fusion - far safer form of fusion - generates same amount of power - but occurs at room temperature instead of super hot environment. 

 

Then as we progress further down the line of research - you start to encounter ways of generating enormous amounts of power. Some of these are inherently hazardous to ship and person. So do keep a eye on em - and for goodness sake hope something does not break. The generators in this category would only be accessible after a significant amount of research time, and would require exotic components and minerals to be constructed, as well as a high level of knowledge to maintain and operate. 

 

 

 

Theoretical Prototype / High range power generation:  

 

  • Antimatter power generation - generates current via use of antimatter - Inherently very dangerous to ship and person if containment is ruptured and contact is made with normal matter. Capable of generating enormous amounts of energy. Expensive to maintain and harvest fuel. 
  • Zero point energy - generator that draws quantum energy from a vacuum. Requires significant materials to construct but is capable of generating enormous amounts of energy. No inherent danger. 

 

 

 

These are just a few of the ideas I had about potential ways to generate power in Dual Universe. Anyway what are your opinions on the choices? Did I miss anything?

 

What are your ideas on power generation?

 

 

Feel free to debate below. . .

 

     - and remember to leave a like, it is appreciated. 

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In my opinion, for ships at least, we should only take into account three types of generators.



1) Cold Fusion Reactors : Easily resupplied, low on fuel cost, since they utilise water and since most planets may have water in one shape or form, the fuel itself is low on cost as well. Stable to power output, but can't be ocerclocked to produce at a higher rate due to technical difficulties involved in a battlefield enviroment.

2) Fission Reactors : Not as much stable output of energy, but can be overclocked, in cases the need for an afterburner is needed. Fuel is rarer, due to the equipment and the mineral required to produce fission-prone material, but the benefit is in its tactical advantage it provides.

3) Anti-matter Reactors : Can have a stable ouput and can be overclocked, but the fuel is very expensive, therefore, making any shop utilising an anti-ammter reactor, being a really large battleship and probably, given the nature of anti-ammter, a thing large factions will have a cartel set around it.



Those engine types can be mixed together, to create a balanced system that satisfies all the needs a ship may have, as X-Ray lasers could be utilising fission reactors for their needs, while a fusion reactor being able to recharge a railgun battery at a steady rate.




As for ground, anything is fair-game, although, Fusion is probably the way to go, starting from a small Cold Fusion reactor near a lake and building upon it with the community around it. 


As for Zero-Point, in my opinion, that is just too impossible to harness as a power source. Harvesting the sea's tides, that's a possible scenario, but harnessing the literal tide of the universe, that's quite improbable. We can't even contain dark matter, let alone Zero-Point, although, the Devs are free to go with any possible tech direction when it comes to Zero-Point,  as the Resurrection Nodes go for a quantum mechanics thing with their logic, although Zero-Point should be unreliable and only be used as a "charger" function when a ship is idle to save costs on fuel, if it was to be implemented.

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In my opinion, for ships at least, we should only take into account three types of generators.

 

Why only 3 for ship ?

 

A ship is a construct not anchored to a planet.

A construct not anchored to a planet is not only a ship. It can be ... a giant crawling ground vehicle for example, With much room for any suitable power generation technique

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Why only 3 for ship ?

 

A ship is a construct not anchored to a planet.

A construct not anchored to a planet is not only a ship. It can be ... a giant crawling ground vehicle for example, With much room for any suitable power generation technic

You didn't understand the term ship? Is a spaceship something that is crawling on the ground? You understand the difference between utilities of each type I hope.

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You didn't understand the term ship? Is a spaceship something that is crawling on the ground? You understand the difference between utilities of each type I hope.

 

The game don't.

 

It is either a planetary construct, or not :)

 

 

In this game, a "ship" is a name you associate to a construct with attached propulsor and cockpit.

 

 

why the aggressive attitude  ?

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I think there should be a higher energy output solar panel in the mid range, something that could be discovered in 500 more years of research, 

 

Also how about a Tesla style atmosphere generator?

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I think there should be a higher energy output solar pabel in the mid range, something that could be discovered in 500 more years of research, 

 

Also how about a Tesla style atmosphere generator?

Oh, you mean like the one NASA build in the mid 90s, the kind of one that can harvest energy from the ionosphere and wire it to the ground? That would be awesome, although, it would also be a target practise for griefers as well. Rewarding, but too risky in my opinion. Even though NASA's cable in the experiment broke, it was merely due to technological limitations imposed by our current depth in metamaterials, but hey, if we can manipulate quantum probablities to dodge death in-game, I can't see why not having a cable linked from the ground to the upper atmosphere. As I said, rewarding, but also risky.

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Today I thought I would talk about the different ways power could be generated in game. There are a great many things to discuss today, so lets get right into our topic. 

 

 

After reading around I have yet to see a huge amount talked about on the current subject so here is a few of my ideas on generators & power sources as well as potential effects and other assorted attachments.

 

 

 

Low yield power generation:

These forms of generators would more than likely be used early on in starting the game. Some of which may come pre shipped on the ARK, and fuel would be readily accessible to either produce or harvest.

 

  • Solar power cells - not terribly efficient at generating power unless in massive arrays - require capacitors or batteries to store power long term. Are effected by weather effects.
  • Bio-fuel Generators - essentially a generator that burns organic matter to generate heat to generate current. Potentially provides a use for trees - wood - and even coal as a resource. Would require water to keep cool, or just kept at low operating temperature. 
  • Geothermal - not sure if there are going to be heated areas on planets - but would be a interesting concept to go around. Provides easy infinite resource of heat to use to generate current. Downside - may be uncommon to find on planet, but when located do provide a inexhaustible source of current for running long term operations. 
  • Wind turbines - same area as solar - but instead of relying on sun they work on wind. Work far more efficiently in areas of high altitude, current generation is tied on cycle factor of wind being present. If wind is however not present - no current is generated. 
  • Hydro-electric - if there is water nearby it can be moved under pressure to generate current. Is limited to the amount of water stock piled, requires infrastructure to be built beforehand. 

 

 

Then as we progress along, we get towards the mid range of power generation. These generate significantly more power than the low yield tier, but some do have side effects and or things that can go wrong. The mid range tier is more suited towards powering ships and other larger objects, instead of ground based facilities. 

 

Mid range power generation:

 

  • Fission reactors / Nuclear power - allows for steady generation of power via the use of enriched uranium - via uranium oxides / ores on planets and asteroids. Hazardous if containment is ruptured - radiation exposure throughout facility and or ship. Can cause fatalities. Suggest protecting in well hardened area. Generates enough current to power small ships and fair sized ground facilities. 
  • Fusion reactors - similar to nuclear except instead of trying to pull apart atoms it fuses them together. Hazardous if magnetic containment is breached - imagine plasma at the temperature of the sun leeching into your facility or ship. Can cause fatalities, and ship destruction. Suggest protecting in well hardened area. 
  • Cold fusion - far safer form of fusion - generates same amount of power - but occurs at room temperature instead of super hot environment. 

 

Then as we progress further down the line of research - you start to encounter ways of generating enormous amounts of power. Some of these are inherently hazardous to ship and person. So do keep a eye on em - and for goodness sake hope something does not break. The generators in this category would only be accessible after a significant amount of research time, and would require exotic components and minerals to be constructed, as well as a high level of knowledge to maintain and operate. 

 

 

 

Theoretical Prototype / High range power generation:  

 

  • Zero point energy - generator that draws quantum energy from a vacuum. Requires significant materials to construct but is capable of generating enormous amounts of energy. No inherent danger. 
  • Antimatter power generation - generates current via use of antimatter - Inherently very dangerous to ship and person if containment is ruptured and contact is made with normal matter. Capable of generating enormous amounts of energy. Expensive to maintain and harvest fuel. 

 

 

 

These are just a few of the ideas I had about potential ways to generate power in Dual Universe. Anyway what are your opinions on the choices? Did I miss anything?

 

What are your ideas on power generation?

 

 

Feel free to debate below. . .

 

     - and remember to leave a like, it is appreciated. 

"Splendid. I like the last five a lot. With great power comes great responsibility. Nuclear reactors are essentially large "shoot me and hear: "BANG!!"" beacons. While they provide a wonderful occasion to give the attacking team a round of applause, they will swallow most of your ground based needs with ease. The question is: are we going to be able to script this or will it come as a ready made non-editable blueprint?  

 

Fusion reactors are much more like awesome fireworks in the night sky, causing a major blackout to the unfortunate owner(s) if hit. (Insert Katy Perry's song here.) 

 

Cold Fusion? Well, I don't know much about it, so I'll quietly leave this one be. 

 

Zero-point energy: I like your thinking, good sir, but this may not occur till five months after complete game release. Six months? Perhaps eight? The point is it's a wonderfully far-off brilliant idea. How will a zero-point reactor be fitted in a Spaceship? How long will it take to build, research and test? God forbid that one of those should blow up just beside the grinning builder. If this one should be breached, however, we may have something like a cynosural field. I'm thinking one could be deliberately breached and deployed into a concentrated enemy area (forgive my devious mind, I enjoy day dreaming to an extent). 

 

Anti-matter generation: This sounds very advanced and expensive. The Skill levels for this will have to be daunting. If it works successfully, say farewell to all your energy needs. If however, this malfunctions: anti-matter takes all, destroys all, eats all, purges all, loves none. Splendid. 

 

The creative aspects of this should have come first, but, that is for another post entirely.

 

"

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Technically - & I do need to change this - Zero Point Energy would come after Antimatter Energy - in terms of difficulty to achieve. 

 

 

Also Aetherios - Zero point energy is relatively safe, read some of  the articles on it. The only problem with it is due to the inherent difficulty with how to interact physically with the vacuum to generate zero point energy. 

 

 

Also - I hate to be the bearer of bad news - Nuclear reactors do not explode, at-least in the technical sense. The ones here only explode due to the pressure vessel reaching over capacity due to too much steam. - That is what causes current nuclear reactors to "explode". While this does cause damage - it would not be enough to destroy a ship, on the other hand the radiation, that would be of greater concern. 

 

Space based nuclear reactors do not use water & steam turbines to generate current. They use advanced meta materials that absorb heat given off from radioactive decay to generate their current. So with steam removed from the equation - there would be no "explosion". Just radioactive cesium or uranium floating around your ship contaminating everything it comes into contact with, as well as killing your crew, and making your ship inhospitable to all but the most hardened of radiation suits. "Think Chernobyl, trying to walk into that containment building where the reactor was" and you will have somewhat of an idea what it may be like. 

 

That is, as long as they have radiation sickness in-game. And I sure hope they do. 

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As for Zero-Point, in my opinion, that is just too impossible to harness as a power source. Harvesting the sea's tides, that's a possible scenario, but harnessing the literal tide of the universe, that's quite improbable. We can't even contain dark matter, let alone Zero-Point, although, the Devs are free to go with any possible tech direction when it comes to Zero-Point, as the Resurrection Nodes go for a quantum mechanics thing with their logic, although Zero-Point should be unreliable and only be used as a "charger" function when a ship is idle to save costs on fuel, if it was to be implemented.

We already /have/ used microscopic amounts of zero point energy :P

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

 

we just dont know how to do it in usable quantities or in a way that doesnt require a new setup for everytime we want to extract power.

 

And "dont even […] dark matter": we dont even know what it is or if it even exists or is a phantom effect of unknown forces.

We know less about dark matter than about zero point energy :P

(And its als pretty unlikely that dark matter has any use)

 

 

 

On topic:

For the high power/high danger variants:

Hawking radiation direct matter to energy converters.

Or simpler: low mass evaporating black holes.

The only limit is your capability to push matter into a black hole the size of a mote of dust.

Converts mass to radiation to be converted into usable power at your capabilies.

Gets more powerful the smaller the mass of the black hole is, but gets more dangerous with that.

As it gets smaller with evaporating it radiates faster and evaporates faster.

long story short: it continues to produce power with a damaged matter injection and emits ever more and explodes at some point.

An antimatter bomb massing a couple of tons basically.

 

Power output thats in the area of human activities needs big and heavy singularities. So its likely that singularity reactors would be mostly used in stationary installations rather than ships.

 

Pro: high, controllable, scalable power output.

Can use anything as fuel.

(100% feasible to modern day physics)

 

Cons: extremely heavy for anything smaller than a suns power output.

extremely hard to contain (you have to use gravity to contain it instead of cheap electromagnetics).

When your mass injector goes down the thing goes ever hotter and explodes.

Its a freaking /black hole/.

/it eats your ship when you lose containment/

 

 

Linky (black hole evaporation):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation

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Technically [...]

Space based nuclear reactors do not use water & steam turbines to generate current. They use advanced meta materials that absorb heat given off from radioactive decay to generate their current.

 

Very "cool" read: Nuclear Power in space

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@Cornflakes


Yeah, if in the Lore there's an element that can soak up gravity, then I don't think people in FutureSpace have any problem containing the schwarzschild  radius of a black hole. I mean, at this point, just make it a very very very costly thing to craft a singularity reactor to even out the scalability and output of the device and IF the devs decide to go with Element/Reactor degredation to create a need for engineers on a ship, the engineers' duty could be to repair said reactor, due to it malfunctioning below a percentual threshold of integrity. 


I mean, with great power, comes a very large power bill, right? :P


But yeah, your Singularity Reactor should be like... deep engineering tech stuff and a logistical nightmare to handle. As for the lower tech reactors, we can assume same gameplay aspects of maintenance but with all reactors must follow a disanalogous chart of degradation to power output.


In simple terms : The more power a reactor produces, the more maintenance it requires, with a Singularity Reactor being the jack of all trades, being able to either act at a low output for cruise and high output for combat, but, at the cost of faster degradation.



Fair?

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@Cornflakes

 

 

Yeah, if in the Lore there's an element that can soak up gravity, then I don't think people in FutureSpace have any problem containing the schwarzschild radius of a black hole. I mean, at this point, just make it a very very very costly thing to craft a singularity reactor to even out the scalability and output of the device and IF the devs decide to go with Element/Reactor degredation to create a need for engineers on a ship, the engineers' duty could be to repair said reactor, due to it malfunctioning below a percentual threshold of integrity.

 

 

I mean, with great power, comes a very large power bill, right? :P

 

 

But yeah, your Singularity Reactor should be like... deep engineering tech stuff and a logistical nightmare to handle. As for the lower tech reactors, we can assume same gameplay aspects of maintenance but with all reactors must follow a disanalogous chart of degradation to power output.

 

 

In simple terms : The more power a reactor produces, the more maintenance it requires, with a Singularity Reactor being the jack of all trades, being able to either act at a low output for cruise and high output for combat, but, at the cost of faster degradation.

 

 

Fair?

 

keeping the schwarzschild radius away from your containment walls isnt that hard as long as you dont accelerate :V

 

But as soon as you accelerate with the gravtiy tethers that should hold it in place not online it will more or less fall through your ship while continously exploding lol.

 

 

Yeah, faster degradation sounds good.

 

I'd also like to note that they need ever more time to "spool up" the lower they are powered down and thus its possible to "brick" a singularity reactor by overfeeding it.

Adding so much mass to it that its decay rate gets too low for it to power up in any useful timeframe and it becoming a low power "radioisotope" reactor.

Low power high reliability output.

and redonkolous mass.

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keeping the schwarzschild radius away from your containment walls isnt that hard as long as you dont accelerate :V

 

But as soon as you accelerate with the gravtiy tethers that should hold it in place not online it will more or less fall through your ship while continously exploding lol.

 

 

Yeah, faster degradation sounds good.

 

I'd also like to note that they need ever more time to "spool up" the lower they are powered down and thus its possible to "brick" a singularity reactor by overfeeding it.

Adding so much mass to it that its decay rate gets too low for it to power up in any useful timeframe and it becoming a low power "radioisotope" reactor.

Low power high reliability output.

and redonkolous mass.

So... basically, the reactor turns to an anchor? :P

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Oh, you mean like the one NASA build in the mid 90s, the kind of one that can harvest energy from the ionosphere and wire it to the ground? That would be awesome, although, it would also be a target practise for griefers as well. Rewarding, but too risky in my opinion. Even though NASA's cable in the experiment broke, it was merely due to technological limitations imposed by our current depth in metamaterials, but hey, if we can manipulate quantum probablities to dodge death in-game, I can't see why not having a cable linked from the ground to the upper atmosphere. As I said, rewarding, but also risky.

Yes that style, and also the style that you build and leave on the ground and it collecta the static charge in the local atmosphere, a small generator can run your fridge, and that is with todays tech.

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Yes that style, and also the style that you build and leave on the ground and it collecta the static charge in the local atmosphere, a small generator can run your fridge, and that is with todays tech.

Yeah, that's indeed something that can be done, perhaps a very "early tech", not enough to power an enormous ship, but quite enough to power a player's home for example. And it's upgrade, the SkyWire, which would be an amazing sight on cyberpunk, eco-friendly cities as well ^_^

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Yeah that is what i was thinking, eco friendly unlimited power :)

Well, for a city at least, it would be an amazing thing, both as a sight and of resource value. Imagine skyscrapers with wires linked to nodes in the sky. Beaaaauuuutiful :P

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