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Question about logging out/in


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I am sorry if this topic isn't in the right section, and also sorry if it's repeated topic - I've searched and  found nothing.

 

We all know that we're going to start our ingame life near the ark ship. That's fine. But what about the others logging in?

 

So my question is:

 

If I go offline (logging out or just network connection lost), does it mean, that once I log in again, I'll be spawned at the place I log out? On the last coordinates I've been online? And what If I log out while being onboard a ship that is still piloting by other player? Am I going to log in onboard again, on different coordinates, or log in to a vast universe in the middle of nothing? And what if the ship is destroyed during my time spent offline? If I log out while beeing onboard a spacestation, that is also destroyed while being offline, will I still spawn on the last coords? And what about constructs on a planet/moon/asteroid with the same conditions during my offline time?

 

That's very important for me. I haven't found answer yet.

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You log in at your last known position.

 

If that construct is moving,

You'll spawn in that construct again.

 

If that ship is destroyed it would make sense to get an info to choose where to spawn (arkship or construct) - or You just spawn at the ark anyway because your ship was destroyed after all - alpha will answer that question

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I think this is a topic that is still under debate too. I am of the mind that logging in and out is something that needs to be tracked per player; I could log out on my friend's ship, my friend sells the ship, I log back in right on the bridge and steal the ship. Impossibley easy.

 

The true answer is that it has not been set in stone just yet; I personally feel that there should be some sort of element you log out of at, which then displays that you are logged out there, and if you don't log out at one of these elements then you respawn at your designated res node when you log back in.

 

Others disagree of course!

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Well, ATMLVE I think that u've got the point. I agree with the idea about adding an element to create a secure area to log out/log in and the option to choose between this element and e.g. ArkShip or another construct u set as your own spawn after logging in. That shall be a great suggestion.

 

And about stealing the ships this way you have mentioned, well, yeah, very abusable.There shall be something like a key/password that the owner can set to protect the ship from stealing. I don't think locking down the whole ship is neccessery, but at least this should lock the bridge controls (ship's movement, guns, entering the build mode, etc. - restricted for the owner only, or with his permission, idk).

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then you completely kill a whole branch (or more) of the game if stealing isn't possible.

 

while it is a problem as ATM described it, there are other ways to make sure this can't happen.

Like: If that construct is sold and ownership transferred, all people logged out on that ship are immediately redirected to the arkship. Or similar like that idea.

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English (Translator used)

 

Hello Iranos Ashley Morloy,
My suggestion would be that the player avatar is frozen when the connection to the server is lost. He will be frozen in the game at the last position for a few seconds.
After the time the player was frozen, he is in the same state as the regular.
In the case of the regular logoff, the avatar should be in a secure location (sleeping capsule), which is on board a ship of a station or a place of trust, otherwise it runs the risk of being enslaved or killed. If this place is destroyed you die.
In moving places you will move with.
With the search of the login leads only to the Combatlogin and is not consistent.

 

 

German (orginal)

 

Hallo Iranos Ashley Morloy,

mein Vorschlag währe das der Spieleravatar beim Verlust der Verbindung zum Server im Spiel an der letzten Position eingefroren wird und für einige Sekunden unantastbar ist.

Nach Ablauf der Zeit in der der Spieler eingefroren war ist er in dem Zustand wie beim regulären auslogen.

Beim regulären auslogen sollte sich der Avatar an einem sichern Ort befinden (Schlafkapsel), die an Bord eines Schiffs einer Station oder einer Unterkunft des Vertrauens ist, ansonsten läuft er Gefahr versklavt oder getötet zu werden. Sollte dieser Ort zerstört werden stirbt man.

An beweglichen Orten bewegt man sich halt mit.

Das mit dem Aussuchen des Login führt nur zum Combatlogin und ist nicht Konsistent.

 

mfG Die Waldfee

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I think log out should be controlled on a construct level, logging in should be controlled by an element/special voxel w/e.  When you log out you would get a message like you are logging out attached to "construct name" when you log back in you spawn in/next to the designated login element. This login element would probably default to something like above the ships core or the cockpit but could be specified later to the reserved login element.  This is the best way in my eyes to avoid issues with disconnections(what happens if you lose power and cannot go to the logoff element) , modifying the construct when allies are logged off(i remove the block you were logged off on for some reason) or using log in as some tactical advantage in AvA combat(logging in 20 people in some empty room behind someone invading your base). Since login is linked to the construct itself, every construct will simply have a login section that can be set via RDMS tags. If you do not have permission to log in you die and respawn at the arkship or closest res node. If you try to log out on a construct you do not have login permission to log in on the game will warn you that when you log in you will either die, or maybe be dropped at that point in game space as long as another construct isnt occupying that space(this could be hard to implement so maybe just death is best)

 

I feel like this hardest part about login/logout mechanics is making sure they cant be abused or minimize the abuse that can be there.

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  • 2 weeks later...

2 hours ago, Lethys said:

It should be obvious why timezones matter in a continuous single shard universe - because all germans sleep at the same time and work at the same time. So all your assets are vulnerable for those periods of times. A strong Aussie/NZ playerbase ensures your working hours are covered while US players can watch your back while you sleep. Beside that HUGE advantage, there are also others (as I already said).

English (Translator used)

 

Hi Guys,

The problem, which with the avatar and its objects during the offline time passed, is already discussed in some TOPICs. NQ is this problem with security consciously and I hope they have the rules designed so that also a single player belongs to no organization may can play DU
without too great frustration. Otherwise, the opportunity of an organization to play or establish one, a compulsion, I think that should deter some players.

 

 

German (orginal)

 

Hallo Leute,

Das Problem, was mit dem Avatar und seinen Objekten wärend der offline-Zeit geschied, wird ja schon in einigen TOPICs diskutiert. NQ ist dieses Problem mit Sicherheit bewust und ich hoffe Sie haben die Regeln so entworfen, dass auch ein Einzelspieler der keiner Organisation angehört DU ohne zu große Frustration spielen kann. Sonst würde aus der Chance einer Organisation anzugehören oder eine zu gründen, ein Zwang, ich denke das sollte einige Spieler abschrecken.

 

 

mfG Die Waldfee

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Well ofc, there's the arkzone and a lone wolf might be able to run a shield generator on his own. But you can't do the same things on the same scale as large orgs. And as your constructs remain in DU even when you're offline, you'd either have to hide them well or park them somewhere safe. With larger (international) orgs you have others to watch your stuff, that's why it's a good ideaidea to cover most timezones

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English (Translator used)

 

Hello Lethys,
If it is not possible to protect larger constructs if all the players of this organization are offline (travel, illness, pause), the risk that everything is plundered when a member is back online is great.
But then the question is how big must be an organization so that you do not have to start from the beginning when you return your players. Because it helps little if a single player has to defend everything. Or can I leave BOO my values unconsciously?

 

German (orginal)

 

Hallo Lethys,

Wenn es nicht möglich ist größere Konstrukte zu schützen wenn alle Spieler dieser Organisation offline sind (Reisen, Krankheit, Pause), ist die Gefahr, dass alles geplündert ist wenn ein Mitglied wieder online ist, groß.
Dann ist aber die Frage wie groß muß eine Organisation sein damit Sie bei der Rückkehr ihrer Spieler nicht von vorne anfangen muß. Denn es hilft wenig wenn ein einzelner Spieler alles verteidigen muß. Oder kann ich bedenklos BOO meine Werte überlassen ?

 

 

mfG Die Waldfee

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that's what protection bubbles are there for. Build it, fuel it, 48h timer if attacked (after that period of time it can be destroyed). 

It's like eve in wormholes with citadels. Free PvP everywhere, the citadel (=protection bubble in DU) holds your stuff safe but can be destroyed. I don't see the problem

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English (Translator used)

 

Hello Lethys,
If I have a countdown with 48 hours when you are offline and then a kind of shield which is indestructible my construct protects, why I then have to have players in several time zones (I can only sleep 25h). Because within 48 hours I can reset the countdown.

 

 

German (orginal)

 

Hallo Lethys,

wenn wie schreibst ein Countdown mit 48 Stunden läuft wenn man offline ist und dann eine Art Schild das unzerstörbar ist mein Konstrukt schützt, warum muß ich dann in mehrern Zeitzonen Spieler haben (ich schaffe es nur 25h zu schlafen). Denn inerhalb der 48 Stunden kann ich den Countdown ja zurücksetzen.

 

mfG Die Waldfee

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No, the enemy attacks the shield and the timer starts. For 48h it's invulnerable. Afterwards the enemy can come back and kill the shield.

Only the arkzone is invulnerable at all times. 

To me such a system is very fair. Risk <> Reward

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English (Translator used)

 

Hello Lethys,
If I get back into the game after the countdown starts, I have to leave the game again at Countdown = 0 seconds and the shield will hold another 48 hours?

 

 

German (orginal)

 

Hallo Lethys,

wenn ich nach Einleitung des Countdown wieder in das Spiel zurück komme, muß ich also bei Countdown = 0 Sekunden einfach das Spiel wieder verlassen und das Schild hält weitere 48 Stunden ?

 

 

mfG Die Waldfee

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No, it's a hard counter. 48h. That's it. It can only be reset if the attackers don't show up to kill it. It's not designed to be a safezone, it'll only delay attackers and hinder solo pilots/groups to steal your stuff

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English (Translator used)

 

Hello Lethys,

How long should the pause of the attack since the countdown restart?

 

 

German (orginal)

 

Hallo Lethys,

wie lange sollte die Pause des Angriffs sein damit der Countdown wieder gestartet werden kann ?

 

 

mfG Die Waldfee

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In response to those with scinerios where you log back in at the ark, this is a bad idea. 

 

Unless it acts as if you died and cleared your inventory in the same manner as death, this would be abused.  

 

Say Im off in another system and need to trade at the ark.  I just have somone delete the construct Im on after I log and appear there. Cuts my travel time in half. 

 

And having people kicked from a construct when ownership changes, logged off or not, is immersion breaking.  Remove their access, sure. but whatever happens to your physical body shouldnt care how permissions change.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 17/07/2017 at 11:04 AM, ATMLVE said:

I think this is a topic that is still under debate too. I am of the mind that logging in and out is something that needs to be tracked per player; I could log out on my friend's ship, my friend sells the ship, I log back in right on the bridge and steal the ship. Impossibley easy.

 

The true answer is that it has not been set in stone just yet; I personally feel that there should be some sort of element you log out of at, which then displays that you are logged out there, and if you don't log out at one of these elements then you respawn at your designated res node when you log back in.

 

Others disagree of course!

 

 

 

The reason that I disagree with this is that it can be abused to either escape death and/or teleport over a vast distance. 

 

I would say that you would need to both log off at a cryogenic chamber and incinerate(delete) any avatars stored within said cryogenic chambers before you can transfer the permissions (ie sell). 

 

Incinerating an avatar would have repercussions for the player like skill loss as if the player was killed in-game. Perhaps the skill that was being trained looses its progress and they lose implants or something.

 

Flying in a ship and logging off in a ship should have the same repercussions if the ship is destroyed. 

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You could have it so that when they log in and don't have permission to be on the construct they were on previously, the player gets deposited on the nearest construct they have permission to be on

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21 hours ago, mrjacobean said:

You could have it so that when they log in and don't have permission to be on the construct they were on previously, the player gets deposited on the nearest construct they have permission to be on

Again the ability to abuse this to teleport over large distances is obvious. 

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On 7/17/2017 at 0:06 AM, Lethys said:

You log in at your last known position.

 

If that construct is moving,

You'll spawn in that construct again.

 

If that ship is destroyed it would make sense to get an info to choose where to spawn (arkship or construct) - or You just spawn at the ark anyway because your ship was destroyed after all - alpha will answer that question

 

Is there any official word from NQ on this? I may vaguely remember it from some interview, but I'm not quite certain. @Lethys

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If you log out on a construct you will log back in on that same construct. This is great because the Internet is not always stable with disconnects happening at any moment. 

But why is this abusable? Jump onto any construct and log out. Now that person can be taken anywhere that construct goes and is undetectable. An invisible stowaway which could just be hitching a ride or have more nefarious ideas.

 

The first question is does this warrant adding some mechanism to prevent the invisible stowaway problem? The 95% case is one where players have the right to be on the ship so is it really a problem? Adding a mechanism, no matter how small, takes away from dev time in which another feature could be built.

 

But, for arguments sake, let's say it *is* a problem so how could it be "fixed" to add gameplay opportunities rather than removing them?

 

1) No rights, no logout. RDMS dictates whether logging off is allowed on the construct. If not, the person is shunted into the planet (or space) outside the construct. This doesn't switch off stowaways since a hacker could get around the RDMS (potentially), but it does make it much more difficult for long hauls since they player must be logged in the entire time.

 

2) Detection. Part 2 and 3 are meant to be used together.

a) Make them visible. After logging out a hologram (or ghost) of the player is left behind. Perhaps this could be for a short amount of time before 2b needs to be used.

b.) Make them detectable. A special hand held or construct wide scanner could be used to give a count of ghosts and eventually, though gameplay, pinpoint them. Think of this as the stowaway trying to hide, perhaps this could get bonuses from stealth skills to hide and likewise the scanner could get bonuses from scanning skills to detect.

 

3) Action after detection. After detecting a ghost using 2 above, what can a person do about it?

a.) Nothing. Being able to do anything to stowaways is abusable in its own right.

b.) Move em. The owner of the ship (with the correct rights) can boot the ghost out of the construct. Potentially into space. This is potentially a death sentence.

c.) Kill em and be done with it. They won't stowaway on your ship again.

d.) Confinement. A holding area could be placed on larger constructs. This is not imprisonment: A person could still shoot their way out or kill themselves. It does serve as a way to give the stowaway a chance to have a talk first.

 

My personal preference would be 2b and then the ability to choose any of the 3's in a case by case basis.

 

What would you choose?

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