Mining operations. volume of matter, mechanics.

[Vorengard]

If you dump dirt, you edit it so its not possible.

 

And for the other part: well, look, speak and talk to the guys owning that mine. Just because they say they're nice and let you mine for free, doesn't mean they're truthful about that..... and if you don't want to pay the ransom, you can always kill yourself

 

I'm talking about someone doing this *to you* as a form of greifing. Can you seriously not think of a single way in which this is exploitable? Because I just listed like 7.

[Vorengard]

Hey thats part of the game. Covering you in dirt vs in a cell, whats the difference.

 

You clearly havent played eve or ark. Suicide and move on.

 

Thanks for being all condescending bro, but I played EVE for 7 years. I don't think you should be able to put people in cages instantly and beyond their control either way. That's not fun or interesting gameplay. 

 

Also, of course you can suicide to get out of it, but in a game where the loot on your body drops that's exactly what the people imprisoning you want. For someone who's supposedly played EVE, you clearly didn't learn anything. (Nice sec status BTW) 

[Anaximander]

Thanks for being all condescending bro, but I played EVE for 7 years. I don't think you should be able to put people in cages instantly and beyond their control either way. That's not fun or interesting gameplay. 

 

Also, of course you can suicide to get out of it, but in a game where the loot on your body drops that's exactly what the people imprisoning you want. For someone who's supposedly played EVE, you clearly didn't learn anything. (Nice sec status BTW) 

He's not condescending. He's honest.

 

It's a sandbox. Politics is part of it. Being buried and kept for ransom is part of the sandbox's politics. It's called "negotiations". If you actually been in null-sec you know it's common practise. "Drop cargo or get blown". 

 

Also, if people are idiots and go mine in another's mine, then the owners of the mine should GRIEF them on sight, as that person is stealing from them.

[Lethys]

I'm talking about someone doing this *to you* as a form of greifing. Can you seriously not think of a single way in which this is exploitable? Because I just listed like 7.

And I just told you that you

A) wouldn't be able to do it, because you can't edit terrain in my turf and

that I would NEVER EVER mine in someone else's turf. Let alone trust them if I don't know them. That's part of the game too, know your friends and try to make new ones - without getting griefed too much

[StoneLegionYT]

I kind of hope auto mining is not a thing and it's always hand mining with advance manual methods overtime to mine more. I think rather then limit how mining is overall you just make the most basic materials easier to come by and make system materials a lot harder and rarer to work with. This way there is still lots of value in the materials but if you have a crew of 10 people out Mining basic materials for the city and such you can in say 5 hours all mining have enough materials to build quite a few buildings and such. But it's the actual functional blocks and such where it becomes a lot more of a harder task to mine for.

 

Automated Mining just becomes messy. Do you let people with 100 accounts afk mine, do you allow people to spam miners all over the place, what about the performance of running such operations around the universe 24/7 taxing the servers.

 

Even the LUA scripts run local last I recall so I highly doubt there will be much in Automated Mining. 

 

That is my 2 cents though, As long you tweak mining to not make it so one person has to spend a week just to build a small shuttle I don't think it will be an issue. These devs seem to be more about go big or go home style as well. 

[Shynras]

Well, mining by hand is tedious and they justified it by not damaging gameplay. And in this case force us to dump unwanted stuff back into the environment would also justify protecting game-play against damage caused. Territory control would help to regulate a lot too.

 

But think about it for a second. If I will be allowed to dig any material in no time and throw it away on the spot, or even with small cool-down I bet plenty of people will start to do underground bases. We didn't arrive on new planet to rat ourselves like we hiding from sun . Many still will do that but in order to carve underground city you will need to shift massive amount of material from one place to another. That matter will not be lost. If it does planet will be like a Swiss chees in no time.

 

And speaking of server performance. If they allowed to dig voxels thousands of players at the same time, there is no difference between forming vs digging a voxel. It is the same load on the server. If I'm busy putting voxel back I'm not digging, I can dig and build at the same time. To compare to the guy who dig all the time and throwing stuff away that must have a physical representation and have an extra calculation behind it.

 

Mining by hand is necessary to make the game work, while dumping dirt and rocks is not. There's nothing wrong with underground bases, you still have to mine to make them, forcing players to dump the materials they get somewhere is an uneffective way to stop them and ruins the environment, since people will just dump ugly blocks around on the surface. The mining and the dumping have a similar load on the servers: the difference is that one is a core needed game mechanic  with a purpose, while the other is a useless feature, just for the sake of realism, that damages gameplay, aesthetics of planets and servers performance. 

[Vorengard]

And I just told you that you

A) wouldn't be able to do it, because you can't edit terrain in my turf and

that I would NEVER EVER mine in someone else's turf. Let alone trust them if I don't know them. That's part of the game too, know your friends and try to make new ones - without getting griefed too much

 

So you're strait admitting that owning territory to rent to others wont be a thing in DU because people shouldn't ever do it.... or something. Even in EVE this is a major part of the Null Sec experience and gameplay, and you're in favor of a totally unnecessary mechanic that would seriously damage that experience because... reasons?

[Anaximander]

So you're strait admitting that owning territory to rent to others wont be a thing in DU because people shouldn't ever do it.... or something. Even in EVE this is a major part of the Null Sec experience and gameplay, and you're in favor of a totally unnecessary mechanic that would seriously damage that experience because... reasons?

You CAN lease a territory - like a mine. Lethys said you can't expect to mine in a territory scott free. There is clearly a problem in communication here. My Twerk sense is tingling.

[Lethys]

So you're strait admitting that owning territory to rent to others wont be a thing in DU because people shouldn't ever do it.... or something. Even in EVE this is a major part of the Null Sec experience and gameplay, and you're in favor of a totally unnecessary mechanic that would seriously damage that experience because... reasons?

That's entirely NOT what I said. Because renting != just mining in territory you don't own. If you're renting then YOU clearly have all rights. Only exception would be that your rights are tied to a fee and expire if you don't pay the owner . And again, you should check that contract for loopholes so that the owner doesn't have ANY rights on your rented turf....

 

Read, think, read again and then please dont jump to conclusions which were never spoken of

[0something0]

There should be a way for people use dirt/stone for something useful like extracting its mineral contents or using them to create aesthetics blocks, or just simply turn it into energy since e=m(c^2),  though they would need quite a lot of said materials. 

[Kurock]

Right, so what happens if I walk into someone's territory where they allow public access but not public editing, and they dump a bunch of dirt around me? Now I'm literally entombed in dirt that I can't move. Same can be said for allowing people in to mine with access rights, and then removing those rights and trapping them in a hole, or a building, or what have you. 

 

As immersive as this feature would be, there's simply too many possible exploits to make it a viable mechanic. 

 

You do not need rights to destroy, only to collect resources.  Also, it would probably be "illegal" to damage someone else's property so that might not turn out well either. 

 

However, if buried in the safe zone, then yes you have a problem.

[Anaximander]

There should be a way for people use dirt/stone for something useful like extracting its mineral contents or using them to create aesthetics blocks, or just simply turn it into energy since e=m(c^2),  though they would need quite a lot of said materials. 

That means you have to accelerate an object at C^2.

 

You may be shocked to learn this, but E= m * c^2 is not magic. E = m * c^2 means that if you put enough energy to reach the speed of lighty, you will then TURN into energy, as youir matter wil lbe consumed.

 

Or you think acceleration happens without putting in energy?

 

Also, fissioning rock is as sane as trying to start a campfire by burning iron.

 

But rock / dirt CAN be used to make athing called "Concrete". Unless people expect to build every single building out of rhenium or something.

[DevisDevine]

That means you have to accelerate an object at C^2.

 

You may be shocked to learn this, but E= m * c^2 is not magic. E = m * c^2 means that if you put enough energy to reach the speed of lighty, you will then TURN into energy, as youir matter wil lbe consumed.

 

Or you think acceleration happens without putting in energy?

 

Also, fissioning rock is as sane as trying to start a campfire by burning iron.

 

But rock / dirt CAN be used to make athing called "Concrete". Unless people expect to build every single building out of rhenium or something.

You are so far off on what that equation means.

Ignoring the fact that its simplified, it has nothing to do with the speed the object is traveling. C is the universal constant in this case. If C was different, E is changed.

In simple, regardless of the constant C, the amount of energy it contains is a factor of its mass alone. Infact as you accelerate an object some of the energy goes into increasig its mass, which is why you can never get to C.

There is nothing about you turning into energy because you reach C, just that only energy (something without mass) can reach C.

[Anaximander]

You are so far off on what that equation means.

Ignoring the fact that its simplified, it has nothing to do with the speed the object is traveling. C is the universal constant in this case. If C was different, E is changed.

In simple, regardless of the constant C, the amount of energy it contains is a factor of its mass alone. Infact as you accelerate an object some of the energy goes into increasig its mass, which is why you can never get to C.

There is nothing about you turning into energy because you reach C, just that only energy (something without mass) can reach C.

O RLY ?! D:

 

You are the king of not getting the point. I guess it's a byproduct of being a hater. 

 

Now, you can debate you are actually the king of not getting the joke, but then again, you'd still not be getting the point and the cycle of pointlessness will lead us to the bottoms of your dwelling, where you'd win by sheer willpower of pointing out things that are superfluous, just ot be a hater.

 

 

Cheers. o7

[Hotwingz]

Just throwing it out there, I like mining by hand....

 

For all the previous reasons NQ gave I'm happy mining is the way it is. If you dont like mining as is, do something else.????

[FireStormNova]

Even if they don't release automated Nano farmers or wait until way after game release to implement them! This is not a bad thing and would give new players a good chance to catch up with some of the more veteran players. Harvesting by characters only also forces Organizations to really work as a team when harvesting materials so they can build the biggest and best structures as a group! I am still not sure if there will be a character skill tree and if so what it might look like?

[DevisDevine]

Even if they don't release automated Nano farmers or wait until way after game release to implement them! This is not a bad thing and would give new players a good chance to catch up with some of the more veteran players. Harvesting by characters only also forces Organizations to really work as a team when harvesting materials so they can build the biggest and best structures as a group! I am still not sure if there will be a character skill tree and if so what it might look like?

There are other trades geared towards skill training, but in short it seems we will have a system similar to Eve. Nothing will be locked out based on a particular path you follow, but it will take real world time to train skills.

The low level of a skill will be quick to train, the higher levels will take a lot more time. I would expect a similar scale to Eve, something following the 80/20 rule. You get 80% of the max with 20% the effort and the last 20% takes 80% the effort.

[0something0]

I know this is old, but people don't get what e=m(c^2) means. The equation means that for any given matter with mass, the energy contained within the mass(in kilograms) is equal to the mass multiplied by the speed of light(meters per second) squared. Some examples include: 

 

"modifying the geometry of exotic matter could reduce the mass–energy requirements for a macroscopic space ship from the equivalent of the planet Jupiter to that of the Voyager 1 spacecraft (~700 kg)[7] or less" -From the Alcubierre Drive article on Wikipedia

 

This means that according to the latter estimate, it would take e= 700kg * c^2 = 6.3*10^19 joules of energy to power the Alcubierre Drive.

 

Another example is a hydrogen atom has a mass of 938.790 million electron-volts, which, rearranging the equation e = m(c^2) to e/(c^2) = m, gives us about 1.7*10^-27 kgs per hydrogen atom.

 

No, accelerating mass to the speed of light WILL NOT turn it into energy. accelerating mass to C would take an infinite amount of energy since relativistic effects go up exponentially as you get closer to the speed of light.

 

......

 

I think it would be nice to have a drill, not a big one, but a relatively small one that you can attach to a craft to make a drilling truck. They would be power-intensive and heavy so you can't attach like 50000 of them in one ship. Also, dynamite for blast mining would be cool too.

 

......

 

Personally, I think we need to focus more on space mining. A lot of sci-fi tends to focus a lot on planets, even though from a practical perspective, that is much less efficient since you have to travel in and out of large gravity wells which take a lot of energy. Besides, I imagine the largest ships will be assembled in orbit, so having the materials right next to the site in an asteroid would be more convenient. Also, by promoting space mining, it would open up planetary surfaces to other uses.

[DevisDevine]

 

I know this is old, but people don't get what e=m(c^2) means. The equation means that for any given matter with mass, the energy contained within the mass(in kilograms) is equal to the mass multiplied by the speed of light(meters per second) squared. Some examples include:

 

"modifying the geometry of exotic matter could reduce the mass–energy requirements for a macroscopic space ship from the equivalent of the planet Jupiter to that of the Voyager 1 spacecraft (~700 kg)[7] or less" -From the Alcubierre Drive article on Wikipedia

 

This means that according to the latter estimate, it would take e= 700kg * c^2 = 6.3*10^19 joules of energy to power the Alcubierre Drive.

 

Another example is a hydrogen atom has a mass of 938.790 million electron-volts, which, rearranging the equation e = m(c^2) to e/(c^2) = m, gives us about 1.7*10^-27 kgs per hydrogen atom.

 

No, accelerating mass to the speed of light WILL NOT turn it into energy. accelerating mass to C would take an infinite amount of energy since relativistic effects go up exponentially as you get closer to the speed of light.

 

......

 

I think it would be nice to have a drill, not a big one, but a relatively small one that you can attach to a craft to make a drilling truck. They would be power-intensive and heavy so you can't attach like 50000 of them in one ship. Also, dynamite for blast mining would be cool too.

 

......

 

Personally, I think we need to focus more on space mining. A lot of sci-fi tends to focus a lot on planets, even though from a practical perspective, that is much less efficient since you have to travel in and out of large gravity wells which take a lot of energy. Besides, I imagine the largest ships will be assembled in orbit, so having the materials right next to the site in an asteroid would be more convenient. Also, by promoting space mining, it would open up planetary surfaces to other uses.

Agreed on all points. Well for 2 I wouldn't hard code a drill limit, just make it impractical and ineffecient to do so.

 

And yes, planet bases and planet living is overrated for a spacefairing species.