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Anaximander

Armor Tech-Level Suggestion.

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...cause EVE, unlike Astroneer, or Starmade or Empyrion, has a realistic economy :)

I think that's mainly down to there being only a handful of players at a time rather than several thousand (except astroneer, that has no pvp, so no end-game goal).

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I think that's mainly down to there being only a handful of players at a time rather than several thousand (except astroneer, that has no pvp, so no end-game goal).

EVE has no end-game either. Everything is constant chaos, change and such. It's what keeps the economy going really,i fyou break it down to a point.

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Well, not everyone plays EVE. Also, a wealthy enough force may use T2 as base-level equipment, like how many modern militeries don't use AK-47s even though they are cheap and widespread. 

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Well, not everyone plays EVE. Also, a wealthy enough force may use T2 as base-level equipment, like how many modern militeries don't use AK-47s even though they are cheap and widespread. 

See, even the richest coalitions in EVE (alliances between allianceS) with rigig economics, do not do that. The reason is simple - the T2 armos are for SPECIALISING. Tech-1 ships (armors in DU) have the added benefit of being easily adjustable to retrofitting. 

 

Likewise, a tech-1 armor in DU for a G.I. (a light armor ) may be designed to take on an army with lasers, by reinforcing its thermal and EM mitigation, while another retrofit for the light armor would be to use jet-packs over other mediums of travel (jetpacks are not obligatory) to falnk enemies, cause maybe a battle happens in a mountainous areaas.

 

Tech-2 armor, would be a Commadner armor, that gives an aura effect on the commander's group - and acts also as a way of knowing where the right direction is - combat with 500 people groups can be chaotic.

 

In smaller group PVP, liek a 10 man radi, you NEED each person to maximise their efficiency. While a tech-1 light armor can be fitted for medic roles, a tech-2 dedicated aight medic armor, would make the soldier more capable on their role - but also limit them on what they can do.

 

See, a group doesn't need 500 Light Command Armors. While on paper this may sound "better",  EVE proven this sentiment to be wrong. When battles invovle 1000 or 3000 players, the side that can manage their money better and are more efficient, win.

 

Many "smart" alliances in EVE lost wars cause they were "hey, we got money, we are smarter, will go Expensive-Ship fleets" and they lost to people who could replace their ships faster than them and far more cheaply.

 

in EVE, when you run out of money for SRP (alliance ship insurance)  means your "Alliance HP" reached zero. Same thign will happen in DU. NovaQuark even has gotten wind of this and named the in-game currency "Quanta" - a unit of energy.Why? Cause they know it's true. 

 

Tech-1 armors, are like sort of the AMD to a tech-2's Intel processor - they got more value for their buck, but when you put down the numbers, a Tech-2 is objectively stronger. Thing is, you can't have POWER and  ECONOMY on the same product. It's why a Toyota and a lamborghini don't come with the same price attached.

 

You want to lose tech-2 armors for day in and day out? Cool, it's YOUR money. If your alliance says "you come with a tech-1 armor with this equipment" and you come with a tech-2 armor in battle, you are no longer covered by the SRP (insurance program) cauase you ignored a direct order. That's how it's in EVE, and those orgs that'll be successful in DU will do the same.

 

 

P.S. : Why an alliance would do an SRP ? That's part of the "politics"/. If your side doesn't cover your PvP expensves when fighting together for your home, then why fight for them at all?? Why would I risk my Super-Expensive Heavy Power ARmor if I end up losing it and all the moeny its worth in battle? Why fight to the very last bullet if I know I will end up losing MONEY for it? It's the main reason many people love using Tech-1 ships in EVE as well - they don't have to buy super-expensvie ships, the Coalition will provide them one.

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Well, not everyone plays EVE. Also, a wealthy enough force may use T2 as base-level equipment, like how many modern militeries don't use AK-47s even though they are cheap and widespread. 

 

back when i played eve T2 equipment was standard  and so was T2 ships, not really sure what has changed or if that is still so.

But it seems to me from reading the forums that 0.0 alliances have more money then ever and everyone out there has several options to print ISK.

 

I find it hard to believe that they are not using T2 equipment all round, if some one was actually interested a look on their kill boards would tell.

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back when i played eve T2 equipment was standard  and so was T2 ships, not really sure what has changed or if that is still so.

But it seems to me from reading the forums that 0.0 alliances have more money then ever and everyone out there has several options to print ISK.

 

I find it hard to believe that they are not using T2 equipment all round, if some one was actually interested a look on their kill boards would tell.

 

If you flew in a small gangs, then yes, Tech-2 is pretty much mandatory, you need more Umph out of your actions. IF you fly in Wormholes, a Tech-2 cruiser is a given - like a Stratios. I would not get in a Wormhole without a Stratios - or an Astero.
 
A Falcon (T2 Railgun ship) may be a better Moa, but only a few of them are in a group, anyone else is flying in a Moa (T1 Variant) around them.
 
When you are in a large Coalition, you can't expect all your guys to have the same amount of money to sink into PvP - some of them have families and want to join in for some large scale action. You can't OBLIGATE a person with minial time to get a Vexor Navy Issue Fitted for HAC-Fleet - which costs about 500 million Isk - while a Vexor built for swarm tactics (drones slaved to fleet commander while Vexor E0Wars) costs 100 million Isk.
 
Tech-1 ships - like tech-1 armors - are very well for people who are not combat oriented and have not sunk INSANE amounts of training time into unlocking a DECENT levl of skill training across the board to amke good use of Tech-3 ships.
 
You may need only 19 days to fly a tech-3 Destroyer in EVE, you need 21 additional training worth of days to make good use out of it and not it being weaker than a Tech-1 Destroyer. Yes, it's not "that simple". The skill training system makes sure the more you ivnest time into a specific path, the more efficient you get at what you want to do. A newbro buying a Tech-3 crusier thay can barely fly, will end with them dying or even worse, BEING UNABLE to keep up with the rest of the group.

 

Guess what's not good for large fleet combat.  Tech-2 ships. Any fleet I've been in, has barely 1 or 2 ship classes that are Tech-2 and usually those are logistics ships - since Exequrors can't really pull the weight a Guardian can. Maybe a Tech-2 Cruiser here and there that is more or less a Tech-1 Cruiser only slightly better  - Caracal and Caracal Navy Issue for example or Vexor and Vexor Navy Issue.
 
If you flew in Low-Sec or High-Sec, then Tech-2 I get why you thimk Tech-2 or nothing. Low-Sec alliances are not usually fleeting 500 people fleets every single day. When you do come to THOSE numbers, tech-2 ships are just a noose you slip into as an alliance as far as money goes. The more you try to make Tech-2 only fleets happen, the more certain the alliance death is.
 
 
Tech-1s just are more worth for their money in large scale warfare. It's as simple as that.

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back when i played eve T2 equipment was standard and so was T2 ships, not really sure what has changed or if that is still so.

But it seems to me from reading the forums that 0.0 alliances have more money then ever and everyone out there has several options to print ISK.

 

I find it hard to believe that they are not using T2 equipment all round, if some one was actually interested a look on their kill boards would tell.

He is speaking about ships, not equipment primarily.

 

T1 ships are not only cheaper for an alliance (SRP, production, fitting) but also quite low on entry skills needed. Which will, in the long run, perhaps happen in DU too. Alliances don't want to waste time, they need people to fight asap. If there's a war, they need recruits now and in numbers. Naturally they won't be skilled so T1 is fine too in DU

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i did look a bit on the KB, there is a fin mix of T1-T3 and faction use both for ships and equipment.

 

actually the KB i look at had the top 4 lost ship types as T2, but then that was interceptors

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i did look a bit on the KB, there is a fin mix of T1-T3 and faction use both for ships and equipment.

 

actually the KB i look at had the top 4 lost ship types as T2, but then that was interceptors

Well, Interceptors are like Light Armors in this model I proposed. {In fact, a Ceptor is favoured in Null-Sec roams, cause a Wolf  Pack (ceptor gang) can easily bypass Warp Disruptor bubbles and can bounce off gates on a dime - they are meant to be agile, it's their specialty.

 

Specialised Light Armors are what Ceptors would be in DU. Case in point, scout armors.

 

A Crow (missile Interpceptor) costs slightly more than a beefed out Tech-1 rocket Frigate, a Kestrel  - assuming you didn't fit 1 billion isk modules on a cannon fodder ship. And most fleets have a place for Tech-1 Frigates. They are used for fighting off Ceptors who grow too near the logistics ships. You don't need to be a kill machine to be ueeful in large scale PvP, protecting your healers is as important as killing the enemy is. Or even better, to ovewhelm an opponent.

 

 

A Tech-2 light aarmor in DU, would be something like a Sharpshooter armor, giving bonuses to optimal weaon range. It's only better in comparison with a Tech-1 armor, only as far as sharpshooting goes. A tank fitted tech-1 would outperform a Sharpshooter specialised armor. If you go near a sharpshooter, they are as good as dead, they are long range glass cannons and not very agile.

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Do you guys think that armor's especially light ones could have enhancements to abilities such as increased jump height, and running speed or should those remain the same for everyone. I don't think DU with have a stats page so if you can't put points into movement speed like in other games should there be a different way of increasing it, or would it simply ruin the immersion, and any change wouldn't be too significant in my opinion in order to keep things fair. 

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Do you guys think that armor's especially light ones could have enhancements to abilities such as increased jump height, and running speed or should those remain the same for everyone. I don't think DU with have a stats page so if you can't put points into movement speed like in other games should there be a different way of increasing it, or would it simply ruin the immersion, and any change wouldn't be too significant in my opinion in order to keep things fair. 

Speed is an aspect of mass and / or armor.

 

Your running speed is an aspect of skill training. Your armor you wear reduces that speed - or could retroactively enhance it, with a Tech-3 "power armor" variant, case in point, Acceleration Suit.

 

For example, let's say a tech-2 armor is an "infiltration" armor. it has almost NO damage reduction but iy has two things, 1) it can ignore RDMS in a territory or a construct and 2) it can equip an advanced cloaking module. The user if fully trained, would be able to move very fast and scout an area or a base fast, or even find where supplies are, and load up explosives on them while an area is vulnerable for an attack.

 

However, said person has almost NO chance of winning a fight, as their armor is based on AVOIDING combat, not getting into it.

 

That's how it would work POSSIBLY, after what JC said in his GDC video on his answer on my question on the forums about armors.

 

 

So yeah, DU has a stats page. It's not call of duty. It's an MMORPG. You got stats, like speed, energy, HP (estimate of how much damage yo ucan take) and equipment combinations to make you better at something.

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