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Suggestions for release day experience


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Even though this topic came up several times already, it seems we have not jet found the best way to handle the release day issues of DU.

A lot of good suggestions were already made here: https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/9884-conflict-at-the-beginning/

or more recently here: https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/11158-different-start-systems/

However I'd like to focus more on solutions to get a good release day experience:

 

Problem

To my understanding the save zone will be a very crowded place at launch.

To have all players on one server might be fun as soon as they are distributed around the whole planet, but at launch everyone needs to go through the arkship-"bottleneck"!

Here some numbers to give an impression of the flood of players: There are already over 9k backers for the game right now, but I'm sure after a successful alpha/beta phase we will see at least 10 times the number for release. And of course everyone will want to join on day 1, as they don't want to fall behind in the race for the best spots on Alioth.

Let's be optimistic and say that 10 Players per second can join the server (the rest will be in a waiting queue). After about 3 hours all 100k players would have joined the servers, but the area around the Novark would look like a sea of players, as there will be a lot of people waiting for their friends to join, before going out of the save zone. Even NQs advanced server tech would not be able to handle this situation.

 

Solution

A solution to prevent an overcrowded spawn point could be to distribute the players to 6-12 separate spawn points, with separate resurrection nodes and NPC-traders.
This would also distribute server load to 6-12 medium sized population clusters instead of one high population cluster. Also every point would only need to supply 1-2 players joining every second.
To keep this in line with the lore the temporary spawn points could be "transport shuttles" provided by the Novark to facilitate the colonization.

However the first tutorial should be running in an instantiated room inside the Arkship, so players can go straight for mining, as soon as their "transport shuttle" is ready. ;)

 

The transport shuttles should be placed right at the edge of the save zone(which has no resources!), so players can start mining right away.

To assure the path out of the save zone is always free there should be a small no-build-area leading out into the wild. Even without gun technology PvP will develop early on, in the form of blocking people out of the save zone by digging holes or walls around the boarder of the shuttle. Thereby people can't sell their minerals to the NPCs or even get killed because they fell into a hole. These temporary "Anti-Troll-Roads" would prevent this. (Maybe not necessary, but I've seen this happen in Minecraft before!)

After the first rush (after 1 week), the shuttles and all their infrastructure should disappear automatically, or as soon as the first TU is placed in the respective area, which is proving that the settlement is self sustainable.

 

9E0gAdp.jpg

Legend: Red - Novark | Orange - Transport shuttles | Blue - Border of save zone | Green - Anti-Troll-Roads

(Number and location of the territories might be wrong, but the problem is still the same)

 

In addition there could be certain points all around Alioth where players can teleport to, thereby giving the opportunity to get directly into the outback. This would reduce the sever load around the spawn points even further.
Especially smaller Orgs might want to get away from the densely populated areas as fast as possible and start building in the outback of Alioth. However this should be a one way ticket, and only be available during day 1! Far away areas should still be hard to reach, and without support of NPC traders it will be harder to build up in these areas. But a lot of players will want exactly this "isolated colony" experience.

 

uQpkLRZ.jpg

Legend: Yellow - available spots to teleport to.

 

A side note about hovercrafts: Even though JC stated hovercrafts will be very easy to build, they should still need several hours to hover around the whole planet. So they should be good enough for commuters around the save zone, but the outback will still be hard to reach. Only after the first spacecrafts are build (1 month after launch) colonies on the other side of the planet are reachable within minutes. That's the reason teleports are necessary at start...

 

 

I'm sure there are a lot more aspects I've missed out, so please let's discuss how you think a good launch day experience should look like! :D

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Hi.

1) There are no NPC traders, bot are NOT NPCs.

2) Spreading the playerbase is not supported by the lore. If you die, you'll be respawned in the Arkship - RNs are an organsiation thing.

3) Having NPC shuttles negates the point of the game.

4) Cloud servers do not care about load or how many people join at once. They can increase in size on their own. Players joing in doesn't matter, they can adjust. Cloud servers can't be DDoSed, they cna serve everyone without queues. Your arugement makes no god damn sense.

5) This is not Space Empyrioneers, you will have to find a way to co-exist with other players, it's an MMO, it's a social game.

6) This is not a single-player game, like Minecraft. You won't mine mountains solo, and sure as heck you won't mine fast if you don't got mining skills trained high enough. OH, you wanted to Space Empyrioneer in DU? TOUGH LUCK, you can't mine automatically, or mine as fast as others who are miners by training.

If you don't like the safezone, move out of it.

If you can't find resources in the starting zone, migrate.

If you can't tolerate other players for whatever reason, play like a nomad or a hermit. Just expect to die like a noamd - or a hermit.

NQ has a failproof plan for all of these issues. It's in the training system, it's in the Cloud hosted servers and it's in the game economy and politics and warfare.

They should not make the game 99% safezone, cause people don't want to have to compete for minerals.

Cheers.

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Even NQs advanced server tech would not be able to handle this situation.

 

The problem is based on the above assumption.  I do not see it as a problem since the server technology *has* to handle this number of players.  These are just player avatars and not complex constructs with crazy voxel creations.  So yes, this will definitely put the technology through it's paces, but it is not the biggest hurdle yet. 

 

Also as a side note the safe-zone will be big. 20 km big.  Relative to a 1.8 m (ish) avatar, that is quite a lot of space. Kudos to the person that walls that entire thing.

 

 

For those that have not seen it yet:

 

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A good launch day experience for me is.

 

1. Everyone appears at the ark-ship over a few hours.

 

2. Chaos, some leave the safe zone right away, some stay for a bit.

 

3. ???

 

4. Profit! You got a player run world.

Yup the math checks out.

 

Step 3 is always foolproof as well. :P

 

The problem is based on the above assumption.  I do not see it as a problem since the server technology *has* to handle this number of players.  These are just player avatars and not complex constructs with crazy voxel creations.  So yes, this will definitely put the technology through it's paces, but it is not the biggest hurdle yet. 

 

Also as a side note the safe-zone will be big. 20 km big.  Relative to a 1.8 m (ish) avatar, that is quite a lot of space. Kudos to the person that walls that entire thing.

 

 

For those that have not seen it yet:

 

Did you just assume my personal space bubble's radius?

 

But Kurock-san, why do you assume my personal bubble is less than 2 kilometers in radius? My e-peen can't fit in one safezone probably.

 

 

Also, don't even try to explain Actor model... just... just don't. It's game over man, game over.

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4) Cloud servers do not care about load or how many people join at once. They can increase in size on their own. Players joing in doesn't matter, they can adjust. Cloud servers can't be DDoSed, they cna serve everyone without queues. Your arugement makes no god damn sense.

 

Thanks for giving everyone at my office a good laugh!

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You're funny. You claim you work at an office.

I do, a cloud company too. Everyone is having a good time with your cloud servers cannot be ddosed statement.

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It is normally harder to ddos them at least so that might have been the confusing but still. . .

That true in that they can scale out, but if you scale out that will cost money. Also in some ways they can be easier to attack because your server is running on shared infrastructure that could also be attacked.

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That true in that they can scale out, but if you scale out that will cost money. Also in some ways they can be easier to attack because your server is running on shared infrastructure that could also be attacked.

If you wanna get hypothetical, technically, a fire in the datacenter is a DDoS attack.

 

Sounds like a Direct Denial of Service to me, if the datacenter is turned to ash.

 

Unless a Botnet can exceed whatever number of machines NQ manages to secure in a contract as of servicing strengths, the server is safe from DDoS attacks.

 

P.S. : Make an argueement about ingress points. It's 2017 and it's AWS. Cheers!

 

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Why so concern about this, too many assumptions made, only NQ can know what they can and can't do based on their tech. Plenty of time for them to test before release, if it ever does become a problem, they can address.

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If you wanna get hypothetical, technically, a fire in the datacenter is a DDoS attack.

 

Sounds like a Direct Denial of Service to me, if the datacenter is turned to ash.

 

Unless a Botnet can exceed whatever number of machines NQ manages to secure in a contract as of servicing strengths, the server is safe from DDoS attacks.

 

P.S. : Make an argueement about ingress points. It's 2017 and it's AWS. Cheers!

 

If you want to get technical a fire is not a DDoS attack. This is primarily because DDoS stands for Distributed Denial of Service, not direct.

 

Not sure what the strict definition of a DoS attack is but I'm pretty sure its considered a cyber attack so a fire is not a DoS attack either.

I think a fire "attack" in a data center would be called Arson...or maybe an accident.

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If you want to get technical a fire is not a DDoS attack. This is primarily because DDoS stands for Distributed Denial of Service, not direct.

 

 

Not sure what the strict definition of a DoS attack is but I'm pretty sure its considered a cyber attack so a fire is not a DoS attack either.

I think a fire "attack" in a data center would be called Arson...or maybe an accident.

If you ask Infowars, it's probably the Lizard People practising the Occult.

 

"Direct" was a joke. Nevermind it though.

 

Thing is, a DoS attack and people flooding in, is not the same thing - unless thunder strikes five times on the same spot and 50000 people log.in at the same time and end up generating a spike of incredib-lul proportions. Most cloud providers HAVE a way to tell apart spoof IPs afaik and even then, attacking a cloud-based MMO server, would cost quite the resources (not necessarily money, but you get the notion).

 

As it was pointed out earlier, only NQ has the numbers, they know what their projections are for launch. So far, as a concept their servers can scale up indefinitely, given the way they handle the programming of the game (Actor model, background data streaming etc. ) , the idea of "what would happen if" is something of an oxymoron, cause a lot could happen that's out of NQ's direct control on launch day.

 

The idea that "we need to make more safezones cause at launch we need more places for people to spawn in" is a dud. All those safezones would spawn people that go through the same login servers, so the point of having multiple starting zoens is moot. If 500000 people bring down the login server, their spawning location won't matter much. It's just gonna make the game more antisocial friendly with all those safezones, and given the OP is notorious for posting only "I want less interaction with people in an MMO" threads, I'd say his game is known by now.

 

I get the idea about Login Servers being flooded in, but hey, even that can scale up, for all we know, NQ is planning on that.

 

 

Cheers.

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One simple thing they can do is staggered starts, which also fits into lore as the Ships AI will obviously wake people up in waves and not all at once, logistics wise.

 

So for example have backers start the game first, then a day later have post KS backers, then those that bought limited or special editions, etc. Early starts are very common in MMOs and help spread out the players in game.

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OMG... why do people assume that this is going to be ANYTHING like any other game they've played?  I mean, yes, its sorta like some other games, there are survival elements, there are elements of politics and factions and warfare and such, and there are elements from other games like being able to build and such... 

 

Warcraft, Eve Online, Minecraft, Secondlife, Ark Survival Evolved, and a whole bunch of other things just rolled together... 

 

OMG... that must mean its going to play like them, lag like them, and crash like them too! 

 

Folks... its a unique, new, interesting world the folks at DU are creating... YES there are going to be issues... that's what Alphas and Betas are for... YES there are going to be different things that will have to be addressed before the game can successfully become something fully playable by just about anyone logging in for the first time... and YES, there will even be those idiots out there that try to deliberately ruin it for everyone and anyone they can get in front of just to experience the joy of watching you spaz out about it.  LOL

 

But here's the fact of the matter, you can debate on perceived issues ahead of time, but you really won't know WHAT the "Real Issues" are until you sit your butt down at the computer for the first time, click the cute lil DU icon on your desktop, wait for the game to load, and step off the Novark ship for the first time... 

 

Instead of debating 'perceived issues', focus on concepts you'd like to see that aren't already apparent from the info the Dev's have been gracious enough to give us... Postulate positive ideas and suggestions... and for the sake of relative sanity (yeah right like gamers are 'sane' by any definition LOL) stop worrying about what ain't yet determined to be broke yet!  

 

'nuff said!

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One simple thing they can do is staggered starts, which also fits into lore as the Ships AI will obviously wake people up in waves and not all at once, logistics wise.

 

So for example have backers start the game first, then a day later have post KS backers, then those that bought limited or special editions, etc. Early starts are very common in MMOs and help spread out the players in game.

That's a good idea, but it comes down to "how fair it is".

 

I'd say, let people who backed get in a day or two before, just so they can have some things set up for the masses when they walk in.

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I wouldn't worry about about the launch, if there's lag it will more likely be on the client side for trying to render so many players at once; and at that point players can solve the problem by simply going somewhere else in the game.

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Hm...This topic has drifted in quite a different direction than what I anticipated. I wanted to focus more on the actual game experience than the technicalities of how many players the servers can handle.

 

My concern is actually the "experience" players will have during release day. This IS an important topic, as this will be the first impression players will get from the game.

I think my suggestion would actually be more FUN than the original concept where everyone spawns at one point. ;)

- no overcrowded spawn, where you can't even read the name of players anymore.
- no walking for 20km to get to any valuable resources (outside the save zone).

- equal chances for everyone, without favoring those in the first login wave. (EDIT: I'm talking about Pang_Dreads suggestion of staggered starts!)

 

The "transport shuttle" concept is basically a shortcut for players to get where they want right at the start, without influencing anything else in the game.

Having only one spawn for new players is completely fine if there is an actual city that is welcoming them, but at launch everyone will just start mining right away as there is nothing else to do...

 

I have the impression this forum was more open minded in the past. We need to welcome fresh ideas from new people, even if not everyone is so well informed with all the devblogs and forum-posts that were already made for DU.

It does not mean that NQ has to listen to every idea that gets posted here, but it could be an inspiration to get a different view on important game-design decisions!

(EDIT: But of course I have no problem to hear people disagree, just please keep things civilized....)

 

We'll see were the real problems are during alpha/beta, but now is the time to discuss in which directions this game should go. So please keep discussing... ;)

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My concern is actually the "experience" players will have during release day.

I think my suggestion would actually be more FUN than the original concept where everyone spawns at one point. ;)

- no overcrowded spawn, where you can't even read the name of players anymore.

- no walking for 20km to get to any valuable resources (outside the save zone).

- equal chances for everyone, without favoring those in the first login wave.

 

The "transport shuttle" concept is basically a shortcut for players to get where they want right at the start, without influencing anything else in the game.

Having only one spawn for new players is completely fine if there is an actual city that is welcoming them, but at launch everyone will just start mining right away as there is nothing else to do...

 

I have the impression this forum was more open minded in the past. We need to welcome fresh ideas from new people, even if not everyone is so well informed with all the devblogs and forum-posts that were already made for DU.

 

Depends wholly on YOUR definition of fun. To me it's more fun if there are plenty of people to fool around with.

- It's not confirmed yet if player names above the head will be implemented

- I actually like the shuttle idea. I'll camp the ramp there and wait for some newbros....

- Such a system won't get you any more equal chance than one spawn point. If you log in first and get that shuttle first - you have an advantage.

 

I see no problem with one spawn point. It encourages players to play together from the start (yes, even pirates). It's not like on day 1 there will be no resources left for others to get. So you can't login on day 1...or in week 1...or in month 1. No problem - you will still be able to mine enough ore to get yourself a decent base. Maybe the best spots are taken and maybe the best vines are already defended - so what? That's the game. This is a MMO. If you want an advantage - get your buddies together and make a schedule from day 1 - day 60. If you just want to play and enjoy the game - do it. But don't complain if the best spots are taken because there are supernerds out there who will be prepared for day 1.

 

Oh and newbros are free to post ideas and talk about them - no one will be mad at them for doing so. "Vets" can voice their opinion too and if someone disagrees it doesn't mean your idea is bad. But no one is forced either to like your idea, only because it's a "fresh idea"

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Instead of having NPC/BOT shuttles, I bet there will be someone who will just build a cheap one and use it as a taxi. Maybe even a taxi org (an early version of an interplanetary transport org). Remember that mining will not remain stage one of player progression forever.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I didn't read all posts, only the OP and few more, but I think that in "single shard universe" it should stay as one world. Always.

 

Instead, why don't just:

- implement waiting queue (that's going to be there anyway) which will control the flow of players into the world

- while players are in the queue, they will be in special virtual world that's lore-wise the tutorial for Arkship landing; this is tutorial meant to teach player basic controls and stuff as well as to give them tips how to continue; this shouldn't take more than 3-5 min to explain the basics and can be skipped (you just can't while you are still waiting in queue, which you can see on the display)

- the tutorial should also explain some of the lore... it should all feel like when you are awaking into new world and getting some guidance by AI

- this tutorial should be repeatable anytime and in the case you are still waiting in queue, at the end of tutorial you can just use it as playground, where you can try some building, mining, crafting or other prepared activities

- after tutorial and waiting is gone, player should have some idea as what to expect (other awakened players), how to settle and what to do

 

+ one additional feature might be handy... if there is still too many players, it's worth considering allowing one-time travel from arkship to any location in arkship range using escape pod or some automated flying vehicle

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