Jump to content
Falstaf

Qauntum Ressurection, don't think I could handle it.

Recommended Posts

How about it being a consumable?

 

You activate it then you get x amount of time to do what ever you want in a "hostile" territory. When its done you get flagged as intruder as normal.

Can you salvage a motherboard by consuming it on the spot? No. Same goes for IFF properties on biodegradable materiel like a cerebral implant. Why biodegradable? Cause silicon chips and nerve tissue don't mix.

 

Sure, it COULD become a consumable item, but only AFTER being retrofitted. Same goes for minerals, same should go for anything. You mine resources, you convert them into usable voxels. Same should go for anything in the game.

 

Being like "make it a consumable item on the spot herp-derp" is just poor gameplay and very shallow one at that. It circumvents the Skill Trianing, the in-game Economy, the meta-gaming involved with black markets (as it's a VERY PARANOIA FUEL THING TO SELL A PERSON'S IDENTITY TO OTHERS).

 

Three parts of the game, shot to shit because of one Instant Gratification mechanism.

 

And this is the systematic problem with the whole community, not just this comment in particular.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And this is the systematic problem with the whole community, not just this comment in particular.

Thats a bit extreme twerk. :)

I know its your style of talking but still...

I have no issues with slow and deep systems, but not everything has to be.

 

Emergent gameplay refers to complex situations in video games, board games, or table top role-playing games that emerge from the interaction of relatively simple game mechanics.

See what I mean?

 

I backed the vision for this game just like you, instant gratification isnt something I am asking for.

Doesnt really matter anyway, it was a lighthearted post on a saturday evening while I'm having a drink. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And this is the systematic problem with the whole community, not just this comment in particular.

Not everyone is a game designer. It requires seeing the big picture, seeing how one change affects everything else. However, I think he was referring to the refined implant rather than the freshly looted one

 

Just remember that the implant holds the rights of the person it belonged to, not just a get out of jail free card.

 

I'll create a new thread for this so that things can get back on topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he was referring to the refined implant rather than the freshly looted one

 

 

I was, usually I am very careful with how I type my posts.

 

I'll just continue finishing this bottle, thats probably wiser than posting at the moment. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not everyone is a game designer. It requires seeing the big picture, seeing how one change affects everything else. However, I think he was referring to the refined implant rather than the freshly looted one

 

Just remember that the implant holds the rights of the person it belonged to, not just a get out of jail free card.

 

I'll create a new thread for this so that things can get back on topic.

Tactical use of camouflage can get you a long way. You wear desert camo to blend with the desert. You use active camo to blend with any surroundings. You use the Disguise Camo, you can blend within a group of soldiers, place a mine or two and get out before they even realise what happened. And if large groups in DU follow the EVE model of massive PvP, that means capacity on how many people can be in a large group, making it easy for one lone "friendly" to sneak into an enemy line and cause havoc by having the most poerful of advatnages, the hesitation of the enemies who see "green-friendly" and do not shoot first, but given the infiltrator is wearing a camo, anything is red to him.

 

So yeah, it can be a "get out of jail free" card, just not a universal one. It's a very situational, very powerful tool, but it doesn't apply everywhere and it can't really fool good old Mark I detection - the human brain, well, at least not mine.

 

This mechanism could create the need for actual sentinels in banks, keeping notice of who tries to access the vault, checkpoints, etcetera. Plus, as I said, it creates a business out of Bounty Hunting, or even some morbid Scavenger gameplay, picking off the corpses after a battle to harvest their implants "just in case".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about it being a consumable?

 

You activate it then you get x amount of time to do what ever you want in a "hostile" territory. When its done you get flagged as intruder as normal.

Why do you want to eat corpses? Oo :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello everyone (colonists/arkers)

 

So I was thinking about the ressurection nodes and how it works. Somehow these things save our qauntum fingerprint and in the event of (unnatural) death it transports your fingerprint into a reality that closest matches your own.

 

Now purely from the standpoint of my character, it makes me very uncomfortable.

I mean, how would you deal with that knowledge? Everything looks the same but it isnt. To make it worse, your psyche got planted in a many worlds copy/version of yourself.

 

Psychologically thats enough to drive a sane person insane.

 

How would our characters cope with it?

Lots of diversion? A sense of nihilism?

Or would we have been chosen to deal with such an unusual way of life? How about natural death?

 

If reality is infinite so are the possibilities. Does that imply that somewhere natural death is eliminated. Or what about that reality where earth wasnt destroyed?

 

Feel free to share your thoughts. :)

First of all, the many worlds interpretation is just that...an interpretation.  There's really only one reality, but it's a quantum mechanical wave and we can't experience it in that form, so our minds have to interpret it as something we can.  At one time, people thought consciousness was sort of like a particle that followed a path in subjective space determined by the shape of the reality wave.  Since it followed one specific path, a person would only experience one of the possibilities the reality wave represented.  They referred to this as collapsing the wave, but the wave itself didn't actually change.

 

Eventually, we found out consciousness has both a wave-like and a particle-like nature.  The consciousness wave spreads out to follow the reality wave, so we do experience all of its possibilities, but each one distinctly.  They're separated not in time, but in a completely subjective dimension.  We call them different "worlds", but they're actually just different sets of sensations.  If they were different worlds, there would be different people in them, no matter how much they resembled us, but there's only us in this one, very complex reality.

 

The idea behind quantum immortality is that a conscious wave can always continue in some directions even if the reality wave blocks most of them.  Say I'm on my ship and we're boarded by pirates.  I come face to face with one of the pirates and we're standing there pointing  guns at each other.  Of course, in a situation like that the pirate's probably going to kill me, but there's a small chance I kill her first.  The probability of that is probably only a fraction of a percent, but it won't be zero, so there's a place where my conscious wave can go on.

 

If that happens anyway, why do we need resurrection nodes?  Well, think about me and the pirate.  We both experienced killing each other, so our conscious waves are now going in completely different directions and can never interact again.  We're living in different "worlds".  What the resurrection node does is create another possibility, one where even though the pirate kills me, our conscious waves still go in the same direction so we can meet again and I can try to get back the stuff she stole from me.  It wouldn't be easy, but if I had a good enough argument, I might be able to convince her.

 

A resurrection node creates a copy of a person's body, which opens another direction for their conscious wave to flow.  Since it does that, people sometimes wonder why they can't use them while they're still alive, so they could for instance become the whole crew of a ship by themselves.  That doesn't work because the conscious wave would need to double up on itself to allow the same mind to exist more than once in the same "world" and that just can't happen.

 

((This is my example of how one character might think about quantum immortality and resurrection nodes.  It does not necessarily represent either real life science or Dual Life science accurately.)) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all, the many worlds interpretation is just that...an interpretation.  There's really only one reality, but it's a quantum mechanical wave and we can't experience it in that form, so our minds have to interpret it as something we can.  At one time, people thought consciousness was sort of like a particle that followed a path in subjective space determined by the shape of the reality wave.  Since it followed one specific path, a person would only experience one of the possibilities the reality wave represented.  They referred to this as collapsing the wave, but the wave itself didn't actually change.

 

Eventually, we found out consciousness has both a wave-like and a particle-like nature.  The consciousness wave spreads out to follow the reality wave, so we do experience all of its possibilities, but each one distinctly.  They're separated not in time, but in a completely subjective dimension.  We call them different "worlds", but they're actually just different sets of sensations.  If they were different worlds, there would be different people in them, no matter how much they resembled us, but there's only us in this one, very complex reality.

 

The idea behind quantum immortality is that a conscious wave can always continue in some directions even if the reality wave blocks most of them.  Say I'm on my ship and we're boarded by pirates.  I come face to face with one of the pirates and we're standing there pointing  guns at each other.  Of course, in a situation like that the pirate's probably going to kill me, but there's a small chance I kill her first.  The probability of that is probably only a fraction of a percent, but it won't be zero, so there's a place where my conscious wave can go on.

 

If that happens anyway, why do we need resurrection nodes?  Well, think about me and the pirate.  We both experienced killing each other, so our conscious waves are now going in completely different directions and can never interact again.  We're living in different "worlds".  What the resurrection node does is create another possibility, one where even though the pirate kills me, our conscious waves still go in the same direction so we can meet again and I can try to get back the stuff she stole from me.  It wouldn't be easy, but if I had a good enough argument, I might be able to convince her.

 

A resurrection node creates a copy of a person's body, which opens another direction for their conscious wave to flow.  Since it does that, people sometimes wonder why they can't use them while they're still alive, so they could for instance become the whole crew of a ship by themselves.  That doesn't work because the conscious wave would need to double up on itself to allow the same mind to exist more than once in the same "world" and that just can't happen.

 

((This is my example of how one character might think about quantum immortality and resurrection nodes.  It does not necessarily represent either real life science or Dual Life science accurately.)) 

...what...

 

That's some New Age spirituality... 

 

The many worlds interpretation is an interpretation. It's a way to explain the complexities to the laymen. Same goes for Schrodinger's Cat, it's not a vampire cat, it's a thought experiment to illustrate the complexities of Quantum Theory.

 

 

Consciousness is a series of One and Zeroes in your brain. No, there's no "quantum magic", you can't pull a Doctor Strange, thatn's not how energy conservation functions, you can't cut the middle man (Entropy) out of energy states.

 

Quantum based processors work by complete lack of observation, that doesn't mean "if you don't look at it, the particle will maitnain its waveform", that's the INTEPRETATION for the layman. In reality, the very light you cast to measure a particle, collapses its wave-function. What that means? Your very light of measuring, "weighs down" a particle to the point it's no longer a waveform.

 

Quantum processes happen in the ABSOLUTEST of darkness, where not even natural cosmirc radiation can disrupt the wave form - if you plan on quoting Eisntein on his famous "I don't believe in Quantum Theory, cause when I don't look at the moon, I know it's there still", I have to point out Einstein was a huge troll, his troll quotes are endless, and because he figured out part of relatitivy, doesn't mean he was beneath trolling.

 

Now, you may ask, "how can a quantum processor do any calculatiosn then, you can't isolate an object in absolute darkness perpetually, heat exchange and stuff", and the answer is simple "you only need a split of a second to do any quantum processor claculations, they are very fast, so fast, it ends ANY load of calculations in -1 second of the moment you iniitiate". Why? Heck if I know, not my field to coprehend it, but the general consensus is a mathematical approach of "if you have infinite solutions and an infinite base solution machine (Quantum Processor) then the math is simple, Quantum processors have the solution beforehand of the need for their answers".

 

So, to iterate upon your response. The Resurrection Nodes are meant to be a failsafe. The RN doesn't create any new PROBABILITIES  - a different word than "possibilities", what is probable, may not be possible, case in point, Quantum Immortality, just because it's probable, it doesn't mean it's possible ,disambiguation is key.

 

LORE EXPLANATION :

 

So technically speaking, your toon you have, always closed in on death, but at the very last moment POOF, you suddenly wake up at a Resurrection Node. Why? Cause the quantum probability matrix ( a quantum processor ) calculted the odds of surviving the battle and decided at T-1 second of your death, to snatch you out, and tether you to the reality you were sent - a reality where you just died, -1 second before you teleported.

 

If anything Quantum Resurrection means that NQ has a very interesting mechanic for later PVE encounters if they wish to add them. Think of a Badguy A.I. on another Arkship (let's call it Darkship) that goes like "Your worst enemies, are yourselves" and then spawns "evil" copies of the player "raid", that behave like the actual players skills-wise.

 

 

P.S. : The Resurrection Nodes work for non-natural ends. They won't halt your age. Good old Time always wins, despite of -1 seconds on a process, which in turn, are not free of charge, the Resurrection Nodes do take A LOT of power to operate and as lon g energy conservation is kept happy, the universe lets anything go. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pay2win mechanic. Get a second acc, kill him every day. Very bad idea

I see that. My point is new thinking, new ideas. Lets stop trying to recreate Eve. I like the camo / impersonation idea, it could even be an awesome mechanic and could allow to get past LUA scripts but perhaps not real clan members.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see that. My point is new thinking, new ideas. Lets stop trying to recreate Eve. I like the camo / impersonation idea, it could even be an awesome mechanic and could allow to get past LUA scripts but perhaps not real clan members.

As you can see from my posts, I don't want eve 2.0 - that's boring and would fail. But your idea was just a bad one and I merely pointed that out. That doesn't mean I want eve 2.0....

New ideas are great and DU has the opportunity to introduce new, great gamemechanics. But you have to consider all sides of such an idea, not just one. And extracting skills somehow through any mechanic is always bad imho. And was introduced in eve btw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see that. My point is new thinking, new ideas. Lets stop trying to recreate Eve. I like the camo / impersonation idea, it could even be an awesome mechanic and could allow to get past LUA scripts but perhaps not real clan members.

RDMS != Lua scripts. Lua is a macrocommand scripting language for the game, so you don't have to push all them buttons all the time. RDMS is the Rights and Duties Management System, the way authority works in DU.

 

Lethys is right. If DAC can buy money and money can buy corpses for SP (Your Idea in a nutshell), then the game becomes P2W, cause a direct line exists between Real Money and Skill Points.

 

It's the same problem with EVE's Skill Injectors. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My character was insane before, so he doesn't mind really :D

 

There are even those two theories in RL:

- infinite universe (one universe - infinitely large)

- multiverse (infinite amount of different universes)

 

In both theories, you have infinite amount of spacetime so basically in both theories, everything that could have happend has happend already. And everything that might happen, will happen. So, if one of those theories is true, there is a second earth somewhere with only dinosaurs. And another one where everything is the same. Except that on thursdays every atomic particle changes it's spin.

 

In terms of DU this means the following:

Every time you die and the RN gets your fingerprint as you call it, everything stays the same, except you're not dead. So this means earth was ALWAYS (IN EVERY of those realities) destroyed because there are infinite amounts of those.

Ofc there are also infinite amounts of realities where the RN saves you and earth is still there. But that's not the realities the RN will bring you to.

To build on lethy's point, just because youre in a different reality doesnt mean its not real. its in the name, REALity. a show that actually explains it very well though comedic, is the show Rick & Morty. Great show 10/10 would reffer you to watch it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It may be real but it does seem weird. My main issue with the RN is that it saves you by moving you to a new universe, but to everyone else you are still dead. Jim may still be alive in a different universe but to those in the universe he was in, Jim is very dead. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It may be real but it does seem weird. My main issue with the RN is that it saves you by moving you to a new universe, but to everyone else you are still dead. Jim may still be alive in a different universe but to those in the universe he was in, Jim is very dead. 

Yeah, but it's a matter of perspective. 

 

Although, this creates a nice "statistics" opportunity.

 

Have "Iteration" as the "how many times a person died" number on a biography tab on a player, and add the Lord of the Rings mechanism of "player character didn't die" but you have Dread debuffs reducing your combat efficiency from the close call.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It may be real but it does seem weird. My main issue with the RN is that it saves you by moving you to a new universe, but to everyone else you are still dead. Jim may still be alive in a different universe but to those in the universe he was in, Jim is very dead. 

 

Yeah but you can argue that Because there are infinite Universe's that the people hurting by your loss are "expendable" as there are infinite universes of people grieving and infinite universes of people rejoicing if you follow me :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It may be real but it does seem weird. My main issue with the RN is that it saves you by moving you to a new universe, but to everyone else you are still dead. Jim may still be alive in a different universe but to those in the universe he was in, Jim is very dead. 

 

The description of the RN does not actually say it moves you to a new universe.  It says the RN will "switch one universe with another."  It could just be another way of saying you move to another universe, but it seems a little odd.  It would be something like saying when you walk, you remain still and the earth moves underneath you.  However, it then says you are dead in one universe and in the RN in the other, so it sounds like you are part of the universe that is switched.  To me it implies it "deactivates" one universe and "activates" another, although as I understand the many worlds interpretation, no world is more "active" than any other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a physicist but moving anything requires energy.

 

So I imagine it would be cheaper and more easy to just transplant the person than moving an entire planet/universe.

 

But who knows...:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a physicist but moving anything requires energy.

 

So I imagine it would be cheaper and more easy to just transplant the person than moving an entire planet/universe.

 

But who knows... :)

Actually, for all we know, the "Resurrection" Node is a 3D mollecular printer and the Node itself just transfers consciousness.

 

 

P.S. : Trust me, you don't wanna go into Simulacra & Simulacrum territories of if "consciousness upload" is actual immortality and if you can copy the human "psyche" does that make any iteration after the "upload" a real person or a faux copy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I imagine it would be cheaper and more easy to just transplant the person than moving an entire planet/universe.

You are only moving a person, not a planet or universe (you are stealing their body from another universe).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×