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Vorengard

Should Larger Ships Require Multiple Players?

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Im actively ignoring you and Lethys.

 

:D

 

And you know why. It's not because I can't debate my point with the two of you.

 

:P

Obviously, you can't. But I couldn't care less so ignore me - there's a handy button for that

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And you know why. It's not because I can't debate my point with the two of you.

If you mean by that 'win', then you misunderstand the point of this. If you want an impartial judge, know that there are none in the universe. Everyone has preferences, everyone has their preferred politics, you can only debate if you are open to changing your mind, else this just gets messy

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Naw.. There's a reason I have 3 warnings. :D

 

Its best I avoid certain people.

Well, don't get triggered by discussions and don't get personal and low. But....you can't. That's why you have those 3. /shrug

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The radar emits an event enemyAt(11,42,66).

The script filters on enemyAt(x,42,z)

The customizable control unit emits setPower(45) && fire().

 

Looks pretty automated to me.

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The radar emits an event enemyAt(11,42,66).

The script filters on enemyAt(x,42,z)

The customizable control unit emits setPower(45) && fire().

 

Looks pretty automated to me.

Thing is, if your gun is a nose gun, it orientates towards X = 0 , y = 0 , z = 1 (that means it faces forward to where you ship looks towards.)

 

Now, depending on the MAXIMUM angle the nosegun can turn, it will a limit on X + Y values, case in point, your 11,42,66, means target is 11 to the right (w/e those 11 are), 42 up and 66 away..Find the problem with that. You guessed it. That's off your targeting reticule's "crosshair" aka, the thing you lock-on people in.

 

IF your idea was to fly, it means :

 

1) turrets can aim so high, it's not even funny.

 

2) people can't avoid your noseguns. Period.

 

3) people can't do anything and the game becomes EVE 2.0 slugfest, no skill required at all in dogfights, in juking around to avoid locks from enemies and avoiding their shots (as the game is active lock-on, means you gotta lock every shot or cycle you take on at an enemy).

 

And that's considering Nose Guns can turn at all in DU.

 

Your automation idea pisses in the face of the game's idea - not to mention you still confuse automation with macros. Lua scripts are mainly used for macrocommands, not automating. You got to press F1 to do the aforementioned macrocommand, so the turret fires automatically if a target is within those regions, but that just limits your actions. You won't press F1, go take a shower and come back to claim your spoils of victory. You'll just press F1 all the time possibly missing a lot while the enemy just stays in your blind spots - not to mention it will be impossible to surgically strike a target, i.e. at their propulsion or their guns, in order to stop them from causing dmage to you, AKA, you won't be hitting them on their weak points.

 

Also, EVEN IF the aforementioned Lua Devblog example was to fly in automation, it means turrets can't turn and follow a target, you just made an Area of Denial for the enemy. They'll just sit in your blind spots and lolpod you to death. A ship could forwards all power to front shield and just melt you as your turrets keep hitting the same reinforced set of shield screens.

 

But this could be avoided with a Gimbal system, having four guns coordinated via Lua scripted macro commands to target fire at the same point the pilot of a craft is aiming at. Gimbaling != Automation.

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Instead of reading in a bunch of bullshit,

 

I read:

 

Element emits value

Script filters on value and returns true

DPU executes function (specifically 'fire()' )

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Instead of reading in a bunch of bullshit,

Change bullshit for MATHS, the stuff games are calculated in. If you do not read that, then any reply you make is of little merit game dev wise, since you are going up against those who use it. Game DESIGN however, now thats a different story...

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Instead of reading in a bunch of bullshit,

 

I read:

 

Element emits value

Script filters on value and returns true

DPU executes function (specifically 'fire()' )

I love ships which just randomly fire in the direction where the barrel is facing. Hilarious

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Search for a thread on the pythagorean theorem to see who's more mathematically capable.

You mean the same thread you claim you actively trolled on the thread by pretending to not understand how calculating a cone's base surface area works? And yes, I am still hopeing you were trolling on that front.

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Ridiculing an example provided by NovaQuark, certainly proves your points.

See the GDC stream video. Piloting the craft with precise thrust values, that's Lua script, AKA, macrocommands tied to player input AKA keystrokes. What you want, is an AFK I-Win button.

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Ok, everyone, let's get back to the point of the discussion instead of the personal attacks.

 

I understand the desire to want to do everything in a game, solo and multiplayer, as that's the type of gameplay you enjoy the most. That being said, you *can't* have everything in a game and do it all well. That's a simple fact of reality, especially with the size Dev team NQ has. Personally, I want a game that requires multiple people to fly effectively above a certain size, because there's a dozen other games that do the solo thing well, EVE chief among them.

 

Now Ripper, Twerk and the other solo LUA advocates in this thread can make their arguments about how scripts work, and you're not inherently wrong. But you're forgetting a very critical point. NQ can simply disable the ability to attach LUA scripts to turrets. The end.

 

Personally, I think they should, and screw realism, because the issue isn't "can a 1 man LUA ship beat a 10 man full-control ship," it's "can 10 one-man LUA ships beat 1 ten-man full control ship." If 10 people in 10 LUA ships can beat 10 players in 1 ship then no one will ever fly multi-player ships. Not only would it be less efficient, but who would choose sitting behind a single turret over flying their own ship? Nobody, that's who. If I wanted that game I'd go elsewhere.

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Ok, everyone, let's get back to the point of the discussion instead of the personal attacks.

 

So I think this discussion did go bit off topic, and whilst I am personally one of those people who think there should be some (if small) level of automation, it isn't really relevant to what you were discussing.

It is a bit of a difficult question as to how to make it more desirable for people to WANT to be a gunner, or a repair jockey, or even a ships doctor.

I'm not sure who said it, but currently everyone is going to want to be a pilot and be the captain of something awesome. But a ship cant run on pilots. There needs to be other people performing other roles.

On top of the people problem, it has to have an added advantage to be flying with 9 other people, than being an annoying mosquito, one-man fighter ship.

 

So to my understanding, currently - when people join the game, for the first time, everyone is going to want to be a pilot, an engineer, and a miner. Everyone will need to be everything so that they can get on their feet and start playing. But with the way the skill tree will supposedly work, people will be able to learn a bit of everything whilst they figure out what they want to be in game (an industrialist, a scientist, a miner etc.) so that will partially sort out the roles function.

The only way to make people go straight for a role like a gunner, a medic, or a repair jockey, will be if they are already in an organization and they already know which role they plan to be going for upon first joining and playing the game.

So being a part of an organization should basically sort out what role people will have whilst on a ship (If the organization is setup and is functioning properly).

 

 

Now on to the more important topic of why would people want to all be on a ship at one time (which could potentially lead to 10 deaths at once, because of one mans mistake) Well frankly, I am not sure. NQ have said that their will be ship repairing modules (which will repair the ship to the way it was before it sustained damage), there will also be (as far as we currently know) a way to lightly LUA code ships weapons. So a real human gunner will be more efficient, as they can target a specific ship system or section and do damage where it is needed.

So from what I can demise, having humans on board will better when using weapons on a battle-cruiser of some kind, but I personally don't know enough about other roles a ship will need and how the game will handle them.

 

But if I had a ship with 5 other friends, I know it would save me from needing to code up some fancy LUA scripts, or to need to buy them straight away. It would give me the option to have a ground raiding team. It would give me the option to not need all my friends online at one time. I would be able to trust other people to handle a specific role that they are good at. I may want to be a pilot, but damn am I bad at it, so my friend (A) he takes over and he is pilot, I run to the guns and I shoot the guns because (A) isn't very good with the guns.

 

It will all be about having people on your crew that you can trust, who are good at a role you are not, or who can be a backup if not every crew member is available.

 

Hopefully all this targets the OP properly and further expands on my knowledge of how it will all work (in my opinion).

 

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