Fast Track/Catch up Skills

[Mazillus]

This idea is that once you reach master level in your chosen profession you have the ability to give skill apprenticeships to players who don't already hold the skill. 1-5 apprenticeships depending on your training skill level.

 

(The below example can be scaled to all skills)

Example:

• Miner
• Apprenticeship Miner (20% skill speed increase)
• Master Miner

 

Basically you can still buy and train the standard skill or you can take an apprenticeship with a master for faster training. (maybe there is another skill that increases a masters training ability).

 

These speed increases are only applied when you complete jobs assigned to you by your trainer. (1 per day, lasts for one 1 day, repeatable until the skill is learned).

 

These skill apprenticeships have to be initiated in person i.e not something that can be done remotely via markets etc. 

 

On completion the trainer gains training skill points (increased skill training time bonus or more trainees) and the trainee gains the skill at a reduced time.

 

Pros:

Player made tutorial

Player interaction

Catch up system

 

This is something that could be added after years full release. 

[Zamarus]

I like the idea of players helping players this way but i can see it being abused to no end

[Lethys]

The idea has some benefits to itself but as zamarus said, it can be abused.

 

And imho there is no need for players to catch up. DU is about specialized players in different fields. An org profits from diverse and specialized players, as no one should be able to be a master in all fields. Newbros have a place in an org that consists of vets because they can specialize. With such a system you would take that away, as everyone would just learn skills faster and newbros who want to look around for themselves have a disadvantage.

Plus older chars should have the advantage of having more skills than others. That's the benefit of being there from the start

[Hotwingz]

I am just going to disagree.

Dont want, dont like.

 

The potential for abuse would be quite large.

 

I'm also not a big fan of catch up mechanics, it just sits uneasy with me. Not that I want to lord over new players but it is an RPG after all. Time investment is a big thing in these games.

If you want equal footing you need to play lobby games.

 

Although I realise that a year old character will always have a theoretical advantage over a fresh player using catch up mechanics.

[FD3242]

I am just going to disagree.

Dont want, dont like.

 

The potential for abuse would be quite large.

 

I'm also not a big fan of catch up mechanics, it just sits uneasy with me. Not that I want to lord over new players but it is an RPG after all. Time investment is a big thing in these games.

If you want equal footing you need to play lobby games.

 

Although I realise that a year old character will always have a theoretical advantage over a fresh player using catch up mechanics.

Well I am going to have to agree with you on that.

[Kurock]

I like the idea of apprenticeships and this can be done in game to teach others the "soft" skill and by that I mean the skills that the player learns on how to play the game which is completely separate from in game stats/skills.

 

I dislike the fast tracking of skill gains.  This will be abused no matter what form it takes and will narrow the "correct" way to play DU. There should be no "correct" way.

[Kuritho]

What about "selling-skills" to other people with a 33% loss? That would make it so buying and selling them require huge amounts of time in order to be effective.

[FD3242]

What about "selling-skills" to other people with a 33% loss? That would make it so buying and selling them require huge amounts of time in order to be effective.

Remember how mad eve players where when they added skill injectors? It would make the game P2W.

[Kuritho]

Remember how mad eve players where when they added skill injectors? It would make the game P2W.

I never played EVE, so sorry.

[FD3242]

I never played EVE, so sorry.

I do not except your apology.

[Lethys]

What about "selling-skills" to other people with a 33% loss? That would make it so buying and selling them require huge amounts of time in order to be effective.

No just no. Never. Ever. Let. Players. Sell/buy. Skills.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Never

[FD3242]

What about "selling-skills" to other people with a 33% loss? That would make it so buying and selling them require huge amounts of time in order to be effective.

You should be ashamed for even thinking of this.

[Kuritho]

You should be ashamed for even thinking of this.

So perhaps instead of making a blatant comment, could you elaborate on how shitty my idea is?

 

I mean hey, we all have a share of bad ideas.

[mrjacobean]

So perhaps instead of making a blatant comment, could you elaborate on how shitty my idea is?

 

I mean hey, we all have a share of bad ideas.

People who have more real life money can get more in game money to get faster skill training. Pay for credits - Win with Skill boosts. Pay to Win

[FD3242]

So perhaps instead of making a blatant comment, could you elaborate on how shitty my idea is?

 

I mean hey, we all have a share of bad ideas.

Sorry, that was meant as a joke.

 

What mrjacobean said "People who have more real life money can get more in game money to get faster skill training. Pay for credits - Win with Skill boosts. Pay to Win"

 

Edit: Thought it was Obvious.

[Kuritho]

Sorry, that was meant as a joke.

 

What mrjacobean said "People who have more real life money can get more in game money to get faster skill training. Pay for credits - Win with Skill boosts. Pay to Win"

 

Edit: Thought it was Obvious.

It could technically sort it self out. Rich people would pay for it, paying other people and (hopefully) have now useless skills due to poor actual skills.

 

But thanks for telling me!

[Hotwingz]

It could technically sort it self out. Rich people would pay for it, paying other people and (hopefully) have now useless skills due to poor actual skills.

 

But thanks for telling me!

Yea...it sounds like a good idea but it opens up a whole can of worms.

 

How ever you dress it up its still a way to bypass a limitation by paying money.

DAC is already walking a very fine line in that sense.

 

One of the core ideas of MMO's is/was that every subscriber had/has the same opportunities as everyone else, unlike the real world. In retrospect we can see how EVE has paved the way for the "f2p" conversion for years and the bad things that come with it.

[yamamushi]

I don't like this idea. 

 

This feels too much like Eve's "buy skill points for ISK" system and could be abused to the point to where it becomes a pay 2 win system.

 

Everyone should be on equal footing when they start out, and it's unfair to people who invest time (and in turn, money) in the game from the beginning. 

 

 

From a market perspective, this would have a negative impact as well, especially if some items are valued because of the skills it takes to make them. If every player can just get a fast-track way to train up skills, then it depreciates the value of those skills, as well as the goods and services that come with them. 

 

 

People need to get over the desire to be the best in everything because that just won't be possible with the time-based skill system that DU is using. Either you're going to be a jack of all trades, master of none, or you're going to specialize in specific things. 

[Begogian]

This would ruin it for people who play 2 years who reach the same skill level as someone only playing for 8 months. Everyone should work towards their skills, yes you can train and teach people techniques to work faster but it shouldn't give them skill points faster.

 

JC wants this game to be a progression, you start at the bottom and work your way up through time, practice, and genuinely working on skills. He wants things later down the road to only be easy for players who have taken the time to really dive into that skill and truly learn how to accomplish that goal, not just hand it off to a noob

[DarkHorizon]

While the idea does have some merit, learning from a master and such, the potential for great abuse has already been pointed out so I won't elaborate further on it. 

[Robert_Brightstar]

First of all, I don't think anyone should be able to buy skills.  It will ruin the game.

 

However, I can see some sort of apprentice/internship to learn a few basic skills (and I want to stress A FEW) with certain requirements.  They could perhaps learn a basic/general skill up to a certain level (like the first 20% out of 100%, or the first level out of 5 levels) with the requirement of accomplishing a goal or being within a certain range of the trainer performing the skill being learned.

 

For example: You have 2 brothers, one is older than the other by a few years.  The older kid know how to a game remote while the younger one is starting to learn. The older brother can help teach his younger brother the basics of the remote up to a certain point, but after that is up to the younger kid one to learn and remember how to move, trade, shoot, build, whatever.

[LynkxDev]

I'm hoping best for this skill system and hope it would help the makers (as me) to be more important to the market.

When they start talk about ESO, they spoke a lot about the craft system and its possibilities,
I started to play as a crafter imagining i could create and sell lots of nice armors and weapons, create a "brand" when it comes to weapons...
Aand become know as a great Known Khajiit blacksmith... 
(like I intent to do here as a ship maker!!)

BUT ...   FAIL ....    the skill system has its time based part, to craft the items you need to train for a long time, about 3 months to master each item of a skill line, you need to drop rare styles etc .. .But in some point they fail on that system..

As they spoke so much good about the craft system all players want to become crafters...  after a few time all players kindda makes everything, 
and no one buys nothing from crafters, that freezed the market and kindda killed the maker play style. 
Last days I was playing there, I use to craft free armors to newbies, and random players.

Since we dont have to much information about the skill system here.. 
I hope DU can have a nice craft skill system that don't cap to fast. but also dont take forever to max a skill... ( also don't allow nothing like selling skills... )
Also bring individuality to ppl that works to very good at something, that not all others can reach fast... 

[Kurock]

I am going to shamelessly steal Lord_Voids blerp about progression in DU:
 

 

There are essentially 4 types of progression in DU:

• Skill Tree Progression - This is the most visible of the types of progression. Players gain skill points over time (at a constant rate, whether they are logged on or not) and these allow players to level up their skills like mining or refining. These skills are where most of your stats increases come from. For instance, the Advanced Mining skill might give you +5% mining yield per level, up to +25% at level V.
• Soft Skill Progression - This is the least visible but possibly most important type of progression. These are the skilsl you have a player: reaction speed, hand eye coordination, and general experience. These are the skills and general knowledge that a player builds up over time from playing and they are stored in your brain. This is understanding how the game systems work and how you can use them to your advantage. With these, an experience pilot on a brand new character could probably beat or at least easily compete with a novice pilot who has a max skilled character.
• Social Progression - This is easily the most powerful type of progression in the game. Social progression is all about making friends, contacts and a reputation. I'm not talking about hiring people. I'm talking about friendship, respect, and loyalty. Even if you have no money and no skills, these people can give you a hand. They will follow you into battle and help you build your business empire. They aren't there just for the money, but because they genuinely feel connected to you. Now this is of course a two way street, so you have to be willing to return the favor. Even someone without an org, but who has a large support network of friends, is a formidable foe.
• Resource and Gear Progression - Ah, lastly we arrive at the weakest and least powerful form of progression. This is the only type of progression that can be purchased using DACs. Resources come and go, ships are built and destroyed, gear is swapped in and out, fortunes dwindle. This type of progression is designed to be non-linear, so there is no one size fits all wonder gear for all situations. Sure, uranium is valuable but you can't do anything with it without the iron to build the ships it powers. And ships won't fly without crews. Sure, you could hire some people, but without he social progression they won't go the extra mile for you. There is no gear progression in the traditional sense, only different variants with different bonuses, and without the Skills to make the best use of those bonuses the variants will be useless to you.

 

Soft skills are exactly what a master can and should teach apprentices.

 

Having any sort of bonus on the skill tree progression means that people that do not know about the said bonus will lose out, even if it is just to starting skills.  The starting skills are already supposed to be able to be learnt in a really short amount of time. Why? So that everyone can try them out.

 

Crafting skills are just one branch of the skill tree, so like all skills, expect the highest tier stuff to take a good while to learn.  It has been mentioned before that it is technically possible to learn all the skills in the entire tree, but it will take a very very long time. How long is still not exactly known (for obvious reasons).

[Hades]

I'm hoping best for this skill system and hope it would help the makers (as me) to be more important to the market.

 

When they start talk about ESO, they spoke a lot about the craft system and its possibilities,

I started to play as a crafter imagining i could create and sell lots of nice armors and weapons, create a "brand" when it comes to weapons...

Aand become know as a great Known Khajiit blacksmith... 

(like I intent to do here as a ship maker!!)

 

BUT ...   FAIL ....    the skill system has its time based part, to craft the items you need to train for a long time, about 3 months to master each item of a skill line, you need to drop rare styles etc .. .But in some point they fail on that system..

 

As they spoke so much good about the craft system all players want to become crafters...  after a few time all players kindda makes everything, 

and no one buys nothing from crafters, that freezed the market and kindda killed the maker play style. 

Last days I was playing there, I use to craft free armors to newbies, and random players.

 

Since we dont have to much information about the skill system here.. 

I hope DU can have a nice craft skill system that don't cap to fast. but also dont take forever to max a skill... ( also don't allow nothing like selling skills... )

Also bring individuality to ppl that works to very good at something, that not all others can reach fast... 

It doesn't matter if everyone has the same skills/abilities (even if it's right out of the gate, granted... that's not the case but its' true).  The desirability of your crafting depends solely on the ingenuity that you use to build a structure/ship with your own hands.  If you create awesome structures as a new player, you will be able to sell them.  If you create crumby structures as someone with all of the uber l33t skills... you won't sell them.