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New PLEX System in EVE, and What DACs can learn from it.


Lord_Void

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Hey Hades, i liked your answer ty !

But.. since we are talking about a new pre-alpha game, its a point we need to take in consideration, is that lots of things we discuss about are more kindda guessing than real game mechanics, we based our points on lots of lose slices of information NQ release here and there, but for real no even them have sure of what will be the final thing.

 

Its an MMORPG/Sand Box, the base of RPGs is progression, maybe you can't use an uber weapon at 1st day because of your skill level, but

I can't imagine that the power of equips will be based on the maker's creativity or ability to create it.

There will be some sort of rare mat, or type of energy, maker skill level, that will modify the stats of equipments. Defense power, damage, etc

 

Also hard to imagine a RPG where a beginner player can have the same gear and overall power of combat that a player that plays for an year, RPGs are based on numbers. There always will be the hight level gear, strongest suits, higher damage blasters, and so on

 

if you can trade 3 DACs for a rare crystal mat, and pay 5 DACs for the best makers of one TOP org to craft the best gear as possible for you.

probably You will be the pirate no one would like to meet at a far mining spot. I you can overpower 3 or 4 players at once.

 

 

I think they have something in mind, i believe on this game! that's why i'm still here, that's why i have payed the Cf campaign at this stage.

 

 

pay for bot-players, believe or not i had a friend that "works" as this on wow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Lethys, in most MMORPGs the things you can use are skill based, you need certain skill lv to use certain tier of item, but if you use to play MMOs you already know Players use to Max Cap all their base skills, a blades man will have the sword skill Maxed, I use to have all my crafts Maxed since i play maker role, a ship pilot will always have piloting skill caped and so on.

 

 

 

That's the "PROS", i fear the "Draw Backs" ....

 

Bring the DACs price down, or heavily inflationate the in-game money, until a point of no one will want to sell no mat or ship for in-game money, wanting only DACs.

DACs can potentially become the main currency in game.

 

 

see yah

You do understand the game has no fictional minerals like mithril or Edgelord Steel of The Korean Oversized Sword, right? The game's core mechanics are based on reality. You won't have a ship that goes 1vs5 just because it got "uber materials". 

 

Are you deliberately ignoring the devblogs when you build false arguements? The skill training ensures you do things BETTER, not having access to better gear. There is not such thing as "better gear" in a model like DU's progression with training timers. Bigger guns do not make better players. But you played so much Korean Trash MMOs, that you think "bigger sword = more damage".

 

Also, you clearly failed to understand what Lethys told you. You need 100 people to operate a ship that has 100 turrets on it - just for the turrets. There's no automation.

 

Wanting to trade DACs for Bots, is what DACs would qualify as P2W. But I guess you have been a regular cashcow to the Korean MMOs over the years, you are used to P2W, to the point you don't see the oxymoron of not seeing that Hades said "if they want to spend real life money for the game as an alliance to have a lead, what's to stop them from exchanging real money (DAC) for in-game assets". Which is acceptable, DAC simply represent a value in-game according to the market.

 

Please, keep being an uninformed pillar of ignorance. Keep expecting thunderbolts on swords, bikini armors and edgelord korean MMO tropes.

 

 

P.S. : There's a reason the game is not geared towards children, the Devs have said so. Cause they do not plan of adding P2W that adhers to teenagers who want instant gratification.

 

 

P.S. #2 : "Kids" that buy in a lot of PLEX in EVE to "win" usually end up being scammed out of their PLEX and making for hilarious youtube clips. Why? Cause the EVE devs don't care for stupid decisions by players and NQ follows the same sentiment.

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Hey Hades, i liked your answer ty !

But.. since we are talking about a new pre-alpha game, its a point we need to take in consideration, is that lots of things we discuss about are more kindda guessing than real game mechanics, we based our points on lots of lose slices of information NQ release here and there, but for real no even them have sure of what will be the final thing.

 

Its an MMORPG/Sand Box, the base of RPGs is progression, maybe you can't use an uber weapon at 1st day because of your skill level, but

I can't imagine that the power of equips will be based on the maker's creativity or ability to create it.

There will be some sort of rare mat, or type of energy, maker skill level, that will modify the stats of equipments. Defense power, damage, etc

 

Also hard to imagine a RPG where a beginner player can have the same gear and overall power of combat that a player that plays for an year, RPGs are based on numbers. There always will be the hight level gear, strongest suits, higher damage blasters, and so on

 

if you can trade 3 DACs for a rare crystal mat, and pay 5 DACs for the best makers of one TOP org to craft the best gear as possible for you.

probably You will be the pirate no one would like to meet at a far mining spot. I you can overpower 3 or 4 players at once.

 

 

I think they have something in mind, i believe on this game! that's why i'm still here, that's why i have payed the Cf campaign at this stage.

 

 

pay for bot-players, believe or not i had a friend that "works" as this on wow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Lethys, in most MMORPGs the things you can use are skill based, you need certain skill lv to use certain tier of item, but if you use to play MMOs you already know Players use to Max Cap all their base skills, a blades man will have the sword skill Maxed, I use to have all my crafts Maxed since i play maker role, a ship pilot will always have piloting skill caped and so on.

 

 

 

That's the "PROS", i fear the "Draw Backs" ....

 

Bring the DACs price down, or heavily inflationate the in-game money, until a point of no one will want to sell no mat or ship for in-game money, wanting only DACs.

DACs can potentially become the main currency in game.

 

 

see yah

 

DACs are already confirmed by NQ (read the open discussion topic by Nyzaltar). They work the way we described it to you - no assumptions here involved.

 

Yep, but they need TIME for maxing those skills and, guess what, if they maxed them and build those ships themselves - they will kill you too. If they buy those ships with DAC or not doesn't matter really.

 

If you sell whole bunches of DAC it will just affect prices of DAC....not the ingame money alltogether. See EVE markets for reference. 

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DACs are already confirmed by NQ (read the open discussion topic by Nyzaltar). They work the way we described it to you - no assumptions here involved.

 

Yep, but they need TIME for maxing those skills and, guess what, if they maxed them and build those ships themselves - they will kill you too. If they buy those ships with DAC or not doesn't matter really.

 

If you sell whole bunches of DAC it will just affect prices of DAC....not the ingame money alltogether. See EVE markets for reference. 

Yap I Know they already confirmed!

that was not what i meant when i spoke about "guessing", but the how could a DAC system could could interfere in game once launched.

 

One way or an other.. .

I still trust on this game, for my personal play style (Crafter) doesn't really matters

 

i just disagreed with ANY system that injects real money inside a game's economy and market,

But seems many ppl here agree with the system,

 

and since  NQ will implement it, we see the system running soon

 

and after 1 year of after the game launch, lets see how it develops..

 

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seems many ppl here agree with the system,

 

Its not that easy.

I'm sure I'm not the only one wishing we could go back to the old days where 15 a month was enough and gold sellers weren't such a problem. Among the reasons why PLEX/CREDD/DAC came into existence.

 

But those days are gone and currently the DAC system seems to make the most sense.

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Yap I Know they already confirmed!

that was not what i meant when i spoke about "guessing", but the how could a DAC system could could interfere in game once launched.

 

One way or an other.. .

I still trust on this game, for my personal play style (Crafter) doesn't really matters

 

i just disagreed with ANY system that injects real money inside a game's economy and market,

But seems many ppl here agree with the system,

 

and since NQ will implement it, we see the system running soon

 

and after 1 year of after the game launch, lets see how it develops..

If you don't trust that system then just look at eve. Pre-skill-injector. Same thing as DAC and it worked great. Yes there were (stupid) people who lost 5000$ worth of plex (they didn't lose 5000$, just the equivalent in rl money) because they had no clue or were careless. But this system enables people with money and less time to keep up with in-game money and at the same time provide people who play every day to play for free while at the same time NQ gets more money than they would get if everyone would pay a sub, because DACs are more expensive. So it's really a win-win-win situation. The drawbacks aren't that bad if you consider skilltraining, supply and demand and markets.

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Yap I Know they already confirmed!

that was not what i meant when i spoke about "guessing", but the how could a DAC system could could interfere in game once launched.

 

One way or an other.. .

I still trust on this game, for my personal play style (Crafter) doesn't really matters

 

i just disagreed with ANY system that injects real money inside a game's economy and market,

But seems many ppl here agree with the system,

 

and since  NQ will implement it, we see the system running soon

 

and after 1 year of after the game launch, lets see how it develops..

I don't like the idea either, but I do not see better option.

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Why DAC?

 

Besides the reasons already stated, (and this was probably mentioned before) but having DAC also reduces the blackmarket for "gold farmers" since players will actually pay NQ for a DAC rather than paying a dodgy site that may promise X amount of in-game money. I expect there will still be some, but vastly reduced. Why is this a good thing?  Because it makes the "real money injection" visible (rather than secretly happening behind the scenes) and ensures the money goes to NQ rather than dodgy third parties.

People with money will pay money.  Having an official and regulated place for that is always a good idea.

 

 

Leveling skills

 

Skills will be learnt passively offline in real time.  So there is no power skill leveling.  Playing more does not give more skill.  No amount of DACs increase this.

 

 

Back on topic

 

According to https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2016/04/08/monetization-player-happiness-and-economic-viability/ there may in the future be a cosmetic cash shop. No mention of any tie in to DAC on that and I don't see why there should be.  As long as the shop remains cosmetic (no boosts in game of any kind) it will never be pay to win, no matter how you try and slice it.

As such there is little reason to split a DAC into bits to make a pseudo premium currency.

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Hey Hades, i liked your answer ty !

But.. since we are talking about a new pre-alpha game, its a point we need to take in consideration, is that lots of things we discuss about are more kindda guessing than real game mechanics, we based our points on lots of lose slices of information NQ release here and there, but for real no even them have sure of what will be the final thing.

 

This is the system NQ is going with. There is no debate on that point. They have clearly stated that over and over. The point of this thread is not to contest that, merely to discuss people's reactions to EVE's changes to their PLEX system, and if people think they are good or not. 

 

 

Its an MMORPG/Sand Box, the base of RPGs is progression, maybe you can't use an uber weapon at 1st day because of your skill level, but

I can't imagine that the power of equips will be based on the maker's creativity or ability to create it.

There will be some sort of rare mat, or type of energy, maker skill level, that will modify the stats of equipments. Defense power, damage, etc

 

Also hard to imagine a RPG where a beginner player can have the same gear and overall power of combat that a player that plays for an year, RPGs are based on numbers. There always will be the hight level gear, strongest suits, higher damage blasters, and so on

There is not really any sort of "gear progression" like other MMOs have. Characters don't even have a level, per se. There are essentially 4 types of progression in DU: 

  • Skill Tree Progression - This is the most visible of the types of progression. Players gain skill points over time (at a constant rate, whether they are logged on or not) and these allow players to level up their skills like mining or refining. These skills are where most of your stats increases come from. For instance, the Advanced Mining skill might give you +5% mining yield per level, up to +25% at level V.
  • Soft Skill Progression - This is the least visible but possibly most important type of progression. These are the skilsl you have a player: reaction speed, hand eye coordination, and general experience. These are the skills and general knowledge that a player builds up over time from playing and they are stored in your brain. This is understanding how the game systems work and how you can use them to your advantage. With these, an experience pilot on a brand new character could probably beat or at least easily compete with a novice pilot who has a max skilled character. 
  • Social Progression - This is easily the most powerful type of progression in the game. Social progression is all about making friends, contacts and a reputation. I'm not talking about hiring people. I'm talking about friendship, respect, and loyalty. Even if you have no money and no skills, these people can give you a hand. They will follow you into battle and help you build your business empire. They aren't there just for the money, but because they genuinely feel connected to you. Now this is of course a two way street, so you have to be willing to return the favor. Even someone without an org, but who has a large support network of friends, is a formidable foe.
  • Resource and Gear Progression - Ah, lastly we arrive at the weakest and least powerful form of progression. This is the only type of progression that can be purchased using DACs. Resources come and go, ships are built and destroyed, gear is swapped in and out, fortunes dwindle. This type of progression is designed to be non-linear, so there is no one size fits all wonder gear for all situations. Sure, uranium is valuable but you can't do anything with it without the iron to build the ships it powers. And ships won't fly without crews. Sure, you could hire some people, but without he social progression they won't go the extra mile for you. There is no gear progression in the traditional sense, only different variants with different bonuses, and without the Skills to make the best use of those bonuses the variants will be useless to you.

 

 

if you can trade 3 DACs for a rare crystal mat, and pay 5 DACs for the best makers of one TOP org to craft the best gear as possible for you.

probably You will be the pirate no one would like to meet at a far mining spot. I you can overpower 3 or 4 players at once.

 

 

I think they have something in mind, i believe on this game! that's why i'm still here, that's why i have payed the Cf campaign at this stage.

 

 

pay for bot-players, believe or not i had a friend that "works" as this on wow.

 

Hey Lethys, in most MMORPGs the things you can use are skill based, you need certain skill lv to use certain tier of item, but if you use to play MMOs you already know Players use to Max Cap all their base skills, a blades man will have the sword skill Maxed, I use to have all my crafts Maxed since i play maker role, a ship pilot will always have piloting skill caped and so on.

Again, there is no gear progression like that. There is no overall "best" of anything. Maybe there is a "best" ranged weapon, but some one could easily counter by getting in close, or vice versa. Think rock paper scissors, which one of those is the best? Answer: none. It's all situation dependent. And facing off against groups of enemies at once has nothing to do with gear and everything to do with soft skills (see above). And keep in mind the price of DACs. Those 8 DACs you so casually toss around are worth around $160. They are too expensive to ever become the main medium of exchange. It's the same reason people don't pay for things with bars of gold or diamonds.

 

That's the "PROS", i fear the "Draw Backs" ....

 

Bring the DACs price down, or heavily inflationate the in-game money, until a point of no one will want to sell no mat or ship for in-game money, wanting only DACs.

DACs can potentially become the main currency in game.

 

DAC prices going down is a good thing, as it means that it will b more easy for people to play the game for free. Also, DACs cannot inflate the ingame money. It is not actually possible for that to happen because that is not how inflation works. Inflation is based on changes in the money supply and DACs do not create or destroy any money, therefore they cannot cause or prevent inflation. Inflation are different topics entirely. 

 

Yap I Know they already confirmed!

that was not what i meant when i spoke about "guessing", but the how could a DAC system could could interfere in game once launched.

 

One way or an other.. .

I still trust on this game, for my personal play style (Crafter) doesn't really matters

 

i just disagreed with ANY system that injects real money inside a game's economy and market,

But seems many ppl here agree with the system,

 

and since  NQ will implement it, we see the system running soon

 

and after 1 year of after the game launch, lets see how it develops..

 

DACs do not inject any money into the game at all, real or otherwise. Buying DACs give the player an item that they can trade and people will likely pay lot's of ingame money for it, but no ingame money is actually created. And the system has developed, go look at EVE pre-skill injectors. It worked perfectly and was most certainly not pay to win. A good player beats a every single time. Period. 

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Leveling skills

Skills will be learnt passively offline in real time.  So there is no power skill leveling.  Playing more does not give more skill.  No amount of DACs increase this.

Hello Kurock

 

Wait wait, I saw that before but i though it was "a Plus", i thought off line skill leveling was kinda mechanism to players that become off for to long does not get to far behind, enough to make them give up to come back. Like only an initial Idea, doesn't thought they would not be implementing active skill leveling at all.

making the become the Only way to level a skill up... Are you sure one can't level up their skills by playing!

Like a normal RPG where you get better by your own efforts ?!

 

that doesn't sounds boring to any one else ?

Specially to hard core players ?

or to competitive PVPlayers ? They play as a competition, trying to play harder to become better and over pass their rivals, if some one killed you today, you will want to train harder to pay back next battle, but how could this work on an only passive timed skill leveling ?

If i start at beginning and a new player join after 3 months, he could never reach my skill level, even been a dedicated player while i am a lazy that logs in once a weak !?

will the game have an minimum amount of hours that you must stay online on a weak ?

 

Doesn't bring you the filling of been back to cryogenic tube, wile some plugs on your brain slowly update up with new skills like matrix!?

there is only me that feels its totally against the immersion....

Like: "Oh I need to become a better shooter, let me set up this skill for leveling and ... be back to the game in 3 months to see if it is maxed. Maybe I'd play star citizen until there.... "

 

Not saying I disagree or don't like .... but saying that sounds strange

 

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This is the system NQ is going with. There is no debate on that point. They have clearly stated that over and over. The point of this thread is not to contest that, merely to discuss people's reactions to EVE's changes to their PLEX system, and if people think they are good or not. 

There is not really any sort of "gear progression" like other MMOs have. Characters don't even have a level, per se. There are essentially 4 types of progression in DU: 

  • Skill Tree Progression - This is the most visible of the types of progression. Players gain skill points over time (at a constant rate, whether they are logged on or not) and these allow players to level up their skills like mining or refining. These skills are where most of your stats increases come from. For instance, the Advanced Mining skill might give you +5% mining yield per level, up to +25% at level V.
  • Soft Skill Progression - This is the least visible but possibly most important type of progression. These are the skilsl you have a player: reaction speed, hand eye coordination, and general experience. These are the skills and general knowledge that a player builds up over time from playing and they are stored in your brain. This is understanding how the game systems work and how you can use them to your advantage. With these, an experience pilot on a brand new character could probably beat or at least easily compete with a novice pilot who has a max skilled character. 
  • Social Progression - This is easily the most powerful type of progression in the game. Social progression is all about making friends, contacts and a reputation. I'm not talking about hiring people. I'm talking about friendship, respect, and loyalty. Even if you have no money and no skills, these people can give you a hand. They will follow you into battle and help you build your business empire. They aren't there just for the money, but because they genuinely feel connected to you. Now this is of course a two way street, so you have to be willing to return the favor. Even someone without an org, but who has a large support network of friends, is a formidable foe.
  • Resource and Gear Progression - Ah, lastly we arrive at the weakest and least powerful form of progression. This is the only type of progression that can be purchased using DACs. Resources come and go, ships are built and destroyed, gear is swapped in and out, fortunes dwindle. This type of progression is designed to be non-linear, so there is no one size fits all wonder gear for all situations. Sure, uranium is valuable but you can't do anything with it without the iron to build the ships it powers. And ships won't fly without crews. Sure, you could hire some people, but without he social progression they won't go the extra mile for you. There is no gear progression in the traditional sense, only different variants with different bonuses, and without the Skills to make the best use of those bonuses the variants will be useless to you.

 

 

Great Explanation !!!.... specially the skill part. (that makes me thinking on delete my previews post i post at same time as yours before reading this )

 

Well, like i told before i still believe in this game, otherwise i'd already left.

 

Lets see how it works, i hope this will become a fun and challenging game.

This game has great potential ever, because its freedom of creation and mix of a MMO and a Sand Box... .

I relay want it to become a success, and i want to stay in playing for a loooonggg time

 

I see this game based lots of things on EVE, (and ignore most of others great successful MMOs experience),

but some times it seems they are doing a game just for a very specific public (Maybe this comes from EVE to)

and mos ppl that disagree with NQ ways already left the forums and moved to star citizen, Interstellar Rift, space engineers and so on

 

the only thing i can say now is, I will wait to see how does it works!

and also will not show up again on any thread that talks about DACs, RL Money, subscription and similar..

since its already all decided and no debate will be left in count any way .....

 

THX

 

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......... !!!

rock002sept2010.jpg

(he loves you wise opinions hello kitty)

Yeah, but you cannot claim ignorance for ever. You seem an educated person, you should look into the DevBlogs and see why the devs go for some aspects of EVE - notice, operative word here is SOME - as DU is not EVE 2.0 .

 

The skilltraining system from EVE guarantees you play the game by doing things you like, not by grinding isntances and mobs for hours upon hours - at least, you'll be grinding on things you WANT to grind on to make money, which again, it's an optional thing, as some organisations in EVE just hand you lower level gear to partake in fleets, and some good ones, even have a reimbursement program set for restoring your expensive ship after you lose it in an alliance fleet op.

Winning a battle in EVE, is about capitalising on your opponent's mistakes, reading the situation and acting on it.

 

As another EVE player put it once over the training system of timers : "You can learn how to fire a sniper rifle over a week, how to aim, rest, tactical breathing, the whole nine yards. But doing math on the fly and hitting a target over a long distance with the first shot, that takes actual experience."

 

EVE's system has no "experience points", cause experience cannot be quantified. Also, the problem with "a player that starts 3 motnhs after me won't ever be able to reach me" is an oxymoron, again.

 

If you wear Medium Armor, use an Assault Rifle and have Shield modules on your armor, that means you have 3 fields of skillpoints you can apply on your character in the situation of combat (Weapons / Armor / Shield ). Your knowledge of piloting a freighter, or the knowledge of usign shotguns, or the knowledge of using Light Machineguns, or the knowledge of using Heavy Assault armor, won't help you in a 1vs1 situation with a player that plays 1 year less than you, but has maxed out all the skills on the same gear you both wear. And that's not even counting knowing how to avoid damage, as DU allows you to take cover, and ambush a target vertically, staying off their peripheral vision as you melt their faces.

 

EVE is all about the same things, minus the verticality, planets, taking cover from being melted, destructible enviroment and so on.

 

And yes, there are SOME situations in EVE where a ship can simply go 1vs15, but this is the thing, in EVE (and hopefully in DU) players can be the "Boss" or "Elite" of a group. In EVE, these are Capital Ships, ships that can tank a lot of dps, and are known to eat frigate roams alive - at least Carriers, since they can launch Fighters. In DU, Capital Ships, can be treated as "Power Armors" for player armors (as Ships can be built into Carriers and good luck crewing a carrier). The same rules apply for the power armors / capital ships, that apply for a medium armor / cruiser. There's a finite limit in skillpoints you can invest in them. After that, it's all about learning how the game works. If you don't know how to play with a small droneboat, getting a SuperCarrier (in all its 315 USD worth of in-game cash) won't mean much, if you were to explode within the first day of having it flying.

 

Notice, the 1vs15 situation happens only when the enemy has no Jammers that prevent the Carrier from locking on a person, and if the enemy frigate fleet is lead by a drunk Fleet Commander, who doesn't prioritise killing the Fighters (the Boss' minions in other words). And beleive you me, those SuperCarrier players in EVE? Yeah, they only bring those out for wars, not every time they undock. When they want to go have a fast PvP roam, they get in a cruiser or a frigate, as smart players max smaller ships first, then advance to bigger ships.

 

And even better, some skills are universal, meaning if you train them once, they apply across the board, like EVE's Electronics Upgrades (bonus to CPU capacity) or Powergrid Upgrades (bonus to Wattage capacity), that can benefit every ship in the game.

 

 

So, before judging, do google, do read a devblog or two, they are on DUALthegame.com . The Korean MMO tropes do not carry in DU. Which is why DACs are not - and won't ever be - Pay2Win. If you suck in PvP, ther'es no way of powering through your weak reactions by buying a more pwoerful sword on the cash shop.

 

 

And the only Cash Shop Pay2Win situation I can see going down, is for NQ to add Hello Kitty stickers for armors. I mean, it's Hello Kitty, people will be like "...what" then you'll get the jump on them as they stand there confused - or more likely, rofling uncontrolably.

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Yeah, but you cannot claim ignorance for ever. You seem an educated person, you should look into the DevBlogs and see why the devs go for some aspects of EVE - notice, operative word here is SOME - as DU is not EVE 2.0 .

OMG Look !!  One intelligent and useful answer coming from the Hello Kitty fan, with no trash and hate speech about how much he hates all others RPGs besides EVE.... I'm surprised !

 

I will take this one in consideration..

 

I know that NQ were taking some things from EVE, like time based skill leveling, but also though they will bring up some active method to level it up.

(and few other stuff like that). I know thar they inspire on EVE, but every time i look around it seems there's way more from EVE that I thought they NQ would go for.

even you saying that DU is not EVE 2.0... It's almost that ( you can see that all your examples are from EVE and apply almost 100% to DU)

 

Any way, your points about EVE (and so DU) battle mechanics are interesting... how the ships and skill lines works there.. (and so probably on DU)

Seems the game will be very "flat" in terms of power.... I always thought that since is a Sci-fi game, they would go for a hundred of weapons and armors with lots of upgrades and add-ons to make your character's equipment unique and with a huge power difference of a rookie's equipment. Players use to spend most time inside an MMO working on achieve the best gear as possible. Since, if it follows EVE mechanics as you say, (and they not change their minds until the launch)

this will not be a thing on DU to, hope the players have things to do during this free time.

 

EVE is a great game but has a big draw back, it became way more about politics and economy than space fights. I think that's why EVE players are so different from other MMOs Players .. (and not use to like or play other games, nor socialize with other MMO players)

I hope DU don't follow this way, its nice that until now seems DU will be more about creation, exploration and fight. leaving politics and economy as a background.

 

I also hope that will be possible for me to create a fast and stealth scape ship with huge range sensors, because if one can't have high tech Sci-Fi utopic gear to trust on his life wile exploring alone the borders of the universe ..... i hope Its possible to flee and run away fast, when an aggressive player comes after you !

 

Btw THX for the answer ! 

(Wasn't so hard to be polite at 1'st time... wasn't it ?!)

((If you don't came to me barking like and orc again, i won't let you talking with the stone again ...))

 

|_|/

 

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OMG Look !!  One intelligent and useful answer coming from the Hello Kitty fan, with no trash and hate speech about how much he hates all others RPGs besides EVE.... I'm surprised !

 

I will take this one in consideration..

 

I know that NQ were taking some things from EVE, like time based skill leveling, but also though they will bring up some active method to level it up.

(and few other stuff like that). I know thar they inspire on EVE, but every time i look around it seems there's way more from EVE that I thought they NQ would go for.

even you saying that DU is not EVE 2.0... It's almost that ( you can see that all your examples are from EVE and apply almost 100% to DU)

 

Any way, your points about EVE (and so DU) battle mechanics are interesting... how the ships and skill lines works there.. (and so probably on DU)

Seems the game will be very "flat" in terms of power.... I always thought that since is a Sci-fi game, they would go for a hundred of weapons and armors with lots of upgrades and add-ons to make your character's equipment unique and with a huge power difference of a rookie's equipment. Players use to spend most time inside an MMO working on achieve the best gear as possible. Since, if it follows EVE mechanics as you say, (and they not change their minds until the launch)

this will not be a thing on DU to, hope the players have things to do during this free time.

 

EVE is a great game but has a big draw back, it became way more about politics and economy than space fights. I think that's why EVE players are so different from other MMOs Players .. (and not use to like or play other games, nor socialize with other MMO players)

I hope DU don't follow this way, its nice that until now seems DU will be more about creation, exploration and fight. leaving politics and economy as a background.

 

I also hope that will be possible for me to create a fast and stealth scape ship with huge range sensors, because if one can't have high tech Sci-Fi utopic gear to trust on his life wile exploring alone the borders of the universe ..... i hope Its possible to flee and run away fast, when an aggressive player comes after you !

 

Btw THX for the answer ! 

(Wasn't so hard to be polite at 1'st time... wasn't it ?!)

((If you don't came to me barking like and orc again, i won't let you talking with the stone again ...))

 

|_|/

 

The point is, Ships in EVE are, for all intents and purposes, Armors (and lore wise they are Armors, but that's an EVE Lore part  tying to the One Pilot per ship of EVE's mechanics).

 

In EVE, you can fit a ship with modules (devices) that provide different uses and bonii to it. Ships also have Role Bonus. "Healer" ships got bonus on the type of HP they restore (armor, shield). Others have Role Bonus on drones, with a "ship type traiining level bonus" that icnreases with the level of training over the particular ship type. For example, I can equip a Warp Disruptor on my ship and I can stop an enemy from warping off. I can equip Missile Launchers for weapons, that have a large magazine and very quick reload, or I can equip Rapid LAunchers, that fire twice as fast but are slwo on reload (balance and all). You can add a Shield Extenders, that increase your Shield HP but make it easier for the enemy to lock-on you, or armor tank your ship, by making it slower. This type of customisation exists. 

 

But here is the thing. In EVE, you can equip things that look suspiciously similar to Weapon Mods from games like Call of Duty. Scopes are Sensor Boosters that can be upgraded to Long Range, or Close Range, with Targeting Range Scripts (enchantments from any other MMO) or Scan Resolution Scripts (another "enchantment" that increases your lock-on speed). These could be x6 Scope and a Reflex Sigh in DU.

 

But here is the funyn thing. Your weapons have a "limited" range in EVE. So, if you can target a perso nat 100 Km, but your weapon can't hit anything beyond 25km, you are practically gimping yourself by havign the wrong tools. Which is why Different weapon variants exist.

 

You can use a Scout Railgun, which is long range, fast hitting, with a medium damage bonus with power demands of its own being minimal, or you can use a Gauss Gun, for range, damage, and a reload speed plus attack speed that makes you fall to sleep.

 

These things can be applied in DU easily. And it also means you CAN fit your character to be a glass cannon sniper, dealing max dps at 5km range, but guess what, if you are caught, you're dead. You forfeited all tanking power so you can be a killing machine. And there's no amount of money you can sink into DACs, if the enemy has enough tanking capability to get close to you and shotgun you in the face. 

 

And this doesn't cover advanced squadrom tactics, like Spider-Tanking (each ship repairing each other ship, while you fight with drones slaved to the group leader's command) or Capacitor Warfare retrofited ships.

 

For example. I fly a Stratios. A Stratios is an "Exploration" ship - and by exploration I mean exploring ways of killing people.

 

Stratios has bonuses on Laser Turrets range and damage. It also has drones, armor strength bonuses and drone damage bonuses, as well as stealth modules for invisibility, as well as Probe Scanner strength for pinpointing even the tiniest of enemy ships inside a star system.

 

But here's the thing, I haven't trained Energy Weapons EVER. But I have trained "Capacitor Transmissions". What that menas, is my stratios can leech energy off the enemy (mana burning / draining more or less), while my drones beat them to death.

 

If you take the spaceships and... well, space, out of EVE, it's a fantasy MMO with a neat sci-fi skin. My Stratios, MAY sound Overpowered, as it's a Ninja Death Knight, but in actuality, it's not. It's a ship that works only if you prey on a person who's weakened. You won't be that effective against a person who's at full power. And against smaller ships than a cruiser ( Destroyers and Frigates ) you can, with good skill training and some luck on your part, 1-vs-many (as demonstrated here ) .

 

 

As for the politics part, that's actually 100% accurate - but only for the people on top.

 

You see, for me, EVE is a Stock Exchange simulator. I play the market, I make money by exploiting demand in certain markets and being there first.

 

For a pirate, EVE is all about "let's go roam inside enemy territory and gank on unsuspecting PVErs".

 

But for a top-level CEO of an alliance, EVE is Game of Thrones.

 

For a fleet commander, EVE is a skirmish in an RTS game. A lot of "dancing" going back and forth in some engagements. 

 

You, as an individual, do not get to bother with politics, but given the game is a sandbox, politics NEED to be a part of it.

 

Funny enough, "politics" is a word I would not use for certain practises that go down in EVE. "Pay up 100000000 ISK or I'll break your station" is not quite the political thing to say, it's something Al Capone would say, which is why Null-Sec in EVE, is sometimes referred to "Mafia Space".

 

And no, 100 million ISK is not much, any corp can make as much in a week by its taxation. The alternative is having your ships explode and wasting money that way. And no, nobody ever asks for PLEX (DAC) as a payment, cause it's PLEX can be dropped on your way back, while money can be transferred and are safe in your wallet in EVE.

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I know that NQ were taking some things from EVE, like time based skill leveling, but also though they will bring up some active method to level it up.

(and few other stuff like that). I know thar they inspire on EVE, but every time i look around it seems there's way more from EVE that I thought they NQ would go for.

even you saying that DU is not EVE 2.0... It's almost that ( you can see that all your examples are from EVE and apply almost 100% to DU)

DU is and isn't EVE. Sandbox games like this are fickle creatures that exist in multiple forms. DU is very much EVE 2.0 when it comes to some of the big picture stuff like game mechanics (passive skills, territory control, player run market and industry, etc. ) and theme (single shard, set in space in the distant future), but it is very different when one looks at the smaller scale. In EVE, everyone plays as a single ship, all the time. There are no multicrew ships, no boarding, no ground gameplay, and everything is based around timers and progress bars. You could effectively play EVE with a text based interface (someone actually designed one). In DU, the "game" is very different with player created ships that can have multi-person crews. In addition, since everything is first person you actively have to do things, not just click "do that thing" in a menu. 

 

 

Any way, your points about EVE (and so DU) battle mechanics are interesting... how the ships and skill lines works there.. (and so probably on DU)

Seems the game will be very "flat" in terms of power.... I always thought that since is a Sci-fi game, they would go for a hundred of weapons and armors with lots of upgrades and add-ons to make your character's equipment unique and with a huge power difference of a rookie's equipment. Players use to spend most time inside an MMO working on achieve the best gear as possible. Since, if it follows EVE mechanics as you say, (and they not change their minds until the launch)

this will not be a thing on DU to, hope the players have things to do during this free time.

 Exactly, things will be pretty "flat" in terms of overall power. That's where fleet composition and tactics come into play. There will be a lot of different pieces of equipment overall but they will probably be fairly limited for each category, at least to start with when the game launches. As far as how much you can customize each item, the truth is that we don't know exactly how in depth that will be at this point. The important thing to remember is that the devs will be continually adding new stuff to the game (for free!!) so the amount of items available will increase over time. As to time, the idea is that reducing the amount of time you spend working on level progression causes players to spend more time interacting with each other and "playing the game". Rest assured that there will still be plenty of "grinding" for money or resources or fights :) 

 

 

 

EVE is a great game but has a big draw back, it became way more about politics and economy than space fights. I think that's why EVE players are so different from other MMOs Players .. (and not use to like or play other games, nor socialize with other MMO players)

I hope DU don't follow this way, its nice that until now seems DU will be more about creation, exploration and fight. leaving politics and economy as a background.

If you're looking for a game without politics or economics, I'm sorry to tell you that DU is not that. Politics and economics are set to be the central tenets of this game, which everything is founded on. Politics are already in full swing now and people are scheming away about how they will get rich. These are good aspects of the game that help give it life and a sense of meaning. Just watch any of the old EVE trailers to see how they portray the "Butterfly Effect". Now perhaps what you meant was that you hope this game doesn't get bogged down in meta gaming and spreadsheets, which is a valid concern. I think that the systems the devs are planning will help to isolate those sections of gameplay so that if you want to just fly around and explore without worrying about who the space president is or what the Consumer Price Index is doing, you can. However, those things still affect you but you don't have to spend all your time thinking about them, unless you want to in which case they are there.

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Hello Kurock

 

Wait wait, I saw that before but i though it was "a Plus", i thought off line skill leveling was kinda mechanism to players that become off for to long does not get to far behind, enough to make them give up to come back. Like only an initial Idea, doesn't thought they would not be implementing active skill leveling at all.

making the become the Only way to level a skill up... Are you sure one can't level up their skills by playing!

Like a normal RPG where you get better by your own efforts ?!

 

that doesn't sounds boring to any one else ?

Specially to hard core players ?

or to competitive PVPlayers ? They play as a competition, trying to play harder to become better and over pass their rivals, if some one killed you today, you will want to train harder to pay back next battle, but how could this work on an only passive timed skill leveling ?

If i start at beginning and a new player join after 3 months, he could never reach my skill level, even been a dedicated player while i am a lazy that logs in once a weak !?

will the game have an minimum amount of hours that you must stay online on a weak ?

 

Doesn't bring you the filling of been back to cryogenic tube, wile some plugs on your brain slowly update up with new skills like matrix!?

there is only me that feels its totally against the immersion....

Like: "Oh I need to become a better shooter, let me set up this skill for leveling and ... be back to the game in 3 months to see if it is maxed. Maybe I'd play star citizen until there.... "

 

Not saying I disagree or don't like .... but saying that sounds strange

 

 

No, you can't level skills by playing. Yes, someone who only plays 1h/week will have the same amount of skills after 2 years than someone who plays 40h/week. Which makes sense because:

 

- some have a job/family and can't play more than x hours per week

- you create an "elite class" of players if a system with active skill progression would be introduced - which hampers newbros with low skills. They can't do much because they don't have "Shotgun Skill of Uber Killing 12341345" and noone will take them along

- it would create boring as hell, stupid and repetetive grinding mechanisms (you have to level that skill!)

- botting/afk players running against walls would be prevalent so they can train 24/7

- it's unfair for players who actually have a family and job

 

With a time based system the only two advantages a very active player has (and those are HUGE ones): you have way more money and you can prepare and build your (multiple) bases. And besides, newbros are USEFUL with such a system because EVERY player needs to specialize in certain skills (as he can't train everything in a reasonable amount of time). So a newbro can be better than a veteran in certain fields of expertise, just because he trains those skills, while the vet never did that.

 

I don't even reply to the statement

 

will the game have an minimum amount of hours that you must stay online on a weak ?
because this is just a....fu....st....idea. And if you can't see why, then it's senseless to talk to you anyway.

 

I see this game based lots of things on EVE, (and ignore most of others great successful MMOs experience),

but some times it seems they are doing a game just for a very specific public (Maybe this comes from EVE to)

and mos ppl that disagree with NQ ways already left the forums and moved to star citizen, Interstellar Rift, space engineers and so on

 

 

That's because EVE did some things really well (like the skillsystem) in regards to MMOs. See above why.

Why do you think they do this for a specific group only? I just can't see why...they allow and cater EVERY playstyle like builders, programmers, administrators, pirates, military, nations, governments, alliances,.... you can be peaceful and just play with your friends and build some stuff or you can attack everyone in sight. All is possible and every playstyle is accounted for.

And as a matter of fact: OF COURSE this game is only appealing to a certain group and OF COURSE NQ has a vision and want to be DU like that

 

A casual classical MOBA player wouldn't find DU that interesting....

If this game isn't appealing to anyone - just leave. There are many many good games out there

But saying that "NQ are only producing this game for a certain audience and exclude lots and lots of people" is just not true

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OMG Look !!  One intelligent and useful answer coming from the Hello Kitty fan, with no trash and hate speech about how much he hates all others RPGs besides EVE.... I'm surprised !

 

I will take this one in consideration..

 

I know that NQ were taking some things from EVE, like time based skill leveling, but also though they will bring up some active method to level it up.

(and few other stuff like that). I know thar they inspire on EVE, but every time i look around it seems there's way more from EVE that I thought they NQ would go for.

even you saying that DU is not EVE 2.0... It's almost that ( you can see that all your examples are from EVE and apply almost 100% to DU)

 

Any way, your points about EVE (and so DU) battle mechanics are interesting... how the ships and skill lines works there.. (and so probably on DU)

Seems the game will be very "flat" in terms of power.... I always thought that since is a Sci-fi game, they would go for a hundred of weapons and armors with lots of upgrades and add-ons to make your character's equipment unique and with a huge power difference of a rookie's equipment. Players use to spend most time inside an MMO working on achieve the best gear as possible. Since, if it follows EVE mechanics as you say, (and they not change their minds until the launch)

this will not be a thing on DU to, hope the players have things to do during this free time.

 

EVE is a great game but has a big draw back, it became way more about politics and economy than space fights. I think that's why EVE players are so different from other MMOs Players .. (and not use to like or play other games, nor socialize with other MMO players)

I hope DU don't follow this way, its nice that until now seems DU will be more about creation, exploration and fight. leaving politics and economy as a background.

 

I also hope that will be possible for me to create a fast and stealth scape ship with huge range sensors, because if one can't have high tech Sci-Fi utopic gear to trust on his life wile exploring alone the borders of the universe ..... i hope Its possible to flee and run away fast, when an aggressive player comes after you !

 

Btw THX for the answer ! 

(Wasn't so hard to be polite at 1'st time... wasn't it ?!)

((If you don't came to me barking like and orc again, i won't let you talking with the stone again ...))

 

|_|/

 

 

We don't know yet how the skilltree is set up and what kind of skills you need to train, but you COULD have all those different armor/weapons/things. Everyone, perhaps with a certain cheap, easy skill trained, can use them and the only difference is: the guy with more skills in that specific branch can use those items 50/75/100 % better than a newbro - that's something to work for too.

 

DU is about "REBUILDING SOCIETY" - I have no idea why you think that this doesn't involve politics. This game will HUGELY depend on politics, friendship, enemies, squabbles over land, wars and player interaction. And since all markets are player run this game will be about economy too.

That doesn't mean you HAVE to be involved - you can be a lone wolf explorer andignore everyone else - but as it's a huge part of DU, you will miss out the interesting gameplay.

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some times it seems they are doing a game just for a very specific public

 

They are and thats a good thing.

NQ and JC have a specific vision for this game and an "old skool" philosophy towards MMO design. But a lot of play styles are represented in DU. DU has a lot of different things for different people.

 

Just copy/pasting other MMO's hasn't worked the past 15 years and it wont work tomorrow.

 

I dont know about you but I am tired of playing the same games year after year where everything is the same but the scenery.

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They are and thats a good thing.

NQ and JC have a specific vision for this game and an "old skool" philosophy towards MMO design. But a lot of play styles are represented in DU. DU has a lot of different things for different people.

 

Just copy/pasting other MMO's hasn't worked the past 15 years and it wont work tomorrow.

 

I dont know about you but I am tired of playing the same games year after year where everything is the same but the scenery.

 

I tried to like it but I'm out of likes for the day :( 

 

I agree. Having a vision is a good thing. They can focus on the core and that core will bring in others. 

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No, you can't level skills by playing. Yes, someone who only plays 1h/week will have the same amount of skills after 2 years than someone who plays 40h/week. Which makes sense because:

 

- some have a job/family and can't play more than x hours per week

- you create an "elite class" of players if a system with active skill progression would be introduced - which hampers newbros with low skills. They can't do much because they don't have "Shotgun Skill of Uber Killing 12341345" and noone will take them along

- it would create boring as hell, stupid and repetetive grinding mechanisms (you have to level that skill!)

- botting/afk players running against walls would be prevalent so they can train 24/7

- it's unfair for players who actually have a family and job

 

With a time based system the only two advantages a very active player has (and those are HUGE ones): you have way more money and you can prepare and build your (multiple) bases. And besides, newbros are USEFUL with such a system because EVERY player needs to specialize in certain skills (as he can't train everything in a reasonable amount of time). So a newbro can be better than a veteran in certain fields of expertise, just because he trains those skills, while the vet never did that.

 

I don't even reply to the statement

 

because this is just a....fu....st....idea. And if you can't see why, then it's senseless to talk to you anyway.

 

 

That's because EVE did some things really well (like the skillsystem) in regards to MMOs. See above why.

Why do you think they do this for a specific group only? I just can't see why...they allow and cater EVERY playstyle like builders, programmers, administrators, pirates, military, nations, governments, alliances,.... you can be peaceful and just play with your friends and build some stuff or you can attack everyone in sight. All is possible and every playstyle is accounted for.

And as a matter of fact: OF COURSE this game is only appealing to a certain group and OF COURSE NQ has a vision and want to be DU like that

 

A casual classical MOBA player wouldn't find DU that interesting....

If this game isn't appealing to anyone - just leave. There are many many good games out there

But saying that "NQ are only producing this game for a certain audience and exclude lots and lots of people" is just not true

Which is exactly why Expansiosn are there to begin with. EVE didn't start with planetary interactions, or Capital Ships or anything like that.

 

It's a sandbox game. NQ can afford to intorudce more variaties of gameplay later down the line.  If people are involved with their farms and houses in a game like Black Desert Online and Archeage, can anyone imagine how an RPer would react to a game like DU,where social interactions are on the forefront, not an afterthought? With a town full of actual people, not NPCs.

 

We may joke and say "RP people are weird" but let's be honest, I like my armorsmiths human, not humanoid vending machines.

 

 

 

 

I keep finding it funny how people say "What about NPC Pirate and epic quests" and "NPC Factions with evil drug lords and blah blah" but when you tell them "well, people will be those kind of guys, not NPCs" they immediately freak out and claim the devs cater to one part of the community. Like, screw you people, it's an MMO. Mutiplayer with NPCs is not Multiplayer. You play an MMORPG, you buy it as a package, not individually. It's Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. And EVE's training system ensures you can be ANYTHING you want to be (that the Devs allow for in the Terms of Service, no space P.I.M.Ps), which is why the Devs went for it. If I can make it my job in-game, to go around, bookamrk rare mineral sites and sell the bookmark of the location to the highest bidder, then I can do that kind of job to make money and buy my DAC (as it's how people make money in EVE). You get bored? Go be a merc in a captain's crew, going after bounties. You are no combat specialised? Everyone needs a doctor. Not a doctor? Be an engineer, everyone needs a Scotty. This is what the training system ensures. You can start in smaller jobs, and by advancing a certain field with training and specialisations, you can become something better.

 

And this is not just LynxDev, it's a general observation of mine over the months on these forums. People want "NPC quests" and "NPC s with attitude", but they do not want players - who are willing to do so for the RP of it - being the ones they have to talk.

 

There's an old saying about EVE, that EVE at its core is a PvP game. Because you gotta deal with players on every single aspect of the game. PVE people try to outspeed each other so they can clean a system of bounty sites faster, traders just fight by undercutting each other, pirates have blood feuds, diplomacy is cutthroat.

 

And at its core, is the PLEX system, the training system and the economy, that make EVE have those things. Spaceships, player organised races, tournaments, all that come afterwards, the core mechanics of the game revolve around that trinity. A diplomat's skills are linguistic, that no Dev can program in the game. A diplomat should not have to grind 500000 Kobolds to do his job, but they should be allowed to passively train while they deal with the drama going on with the neighbouring aliance, nobody should be penalised for RPing when it comes to skill-training.

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I think I am just reiterating what others have said before me here... but here goes anyway.

 

EVE is a great game but has a big draw back, it became way more about politics and economy than space fights. I think that's why EVE players are so different from other MMOs Players .. (and not use to like or play other games, nor socialize with other MMO players)
I hope DU don't follow this way, its nice that until now seems DU will be more about creation, exploration and fight. leaving politics and economy as a background.

 

DU is a sandbox game with aspects of exploration, construction, combat, politics and economy.  No one of these are more important than the other and it is not required for all players to like all of those elements.  It is a design decision that a player may choose how deep they wish to go into each of these aspects.  

 

Don't like politics? Be a neutral party that does whatever. (Just don't be surprised that annoying a large organization might have some repercussions.)

Don't like playing in the markets?  Just use the auto-price match functionality at a market of your choice.

Finding hauling goods from afar tedious? Hire someone to do it for you.

 

The point of a sandbox game is to set your own goals.  Be it making loads of money, owning a planet, or kicking over other peoples sandcastles. There is no storyline or quest givers beyond what the players create.  Point is: do what you want to do but accept that the other aspects of the game will also be there for people that are interested in them.

 

Edit: TLDR; its like what Twerk said, but put nicely. ;)

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