Sonic Booms.

[FD3242]

I just thought it might be cool to have sonic booms. They would not add anything other then looking and sounding cool.

 

This would only be a good idea if it is hard/dangerous to reach that speed in atmosphere as constantly hearing a BOOOM every 3 min would get annoying fast.

 

 

This would not take much to add so why not?

 

[MasteredRed]

It would be cool. However implementing something like that in a game such as Dual Universe costs resources, time, and the immersion reward is all we get. That, as well, is very limited. 

[Kuritho]

You're the only person who voted yes.

"Fake news''.

 

"what a fucklet"

[Ryzekanzler]

I actually don't care, but I don't want you to be alone, so I pressed "yes".

Got you buddy.

[FD3242]

It would be cool. However implementing something like that in a game such as Dual Universe costs resources, time, and the immersion reward is all we get. That, as well, is very limited. 

Well one of my points was that it would be fairly easy to implement. Edit: At least I think it would be.

 

It is just another effect. Effects add immersion but they are not needed for the game to work. Are you suggesting we do not have particles or anything like that. I know you are not, GET MY POINT!!! 

[FD3242]

I actually don't care, but I don't want you to be alone, so I pressed "yes".

 

Got you buddy.

[FD3242]

You're the only person who voted yes.

'Fake news'.

I don't like you. Not because you pointed out I was the only one that said yes. Not because you said Fake news. No, because you used a single quotation mark instead of a  double. HOW DARE YOU!!!

[Anaximander]

It would be cool. However implementing something like that in a game such as Dual Universe costs resources, time, and the immersion reward is all we get. That, as well, is very limited. 

It's not a difficult thing to implement. Just add a sound cue when a craft exceeds the speed of sound in atmoshpere and tune the bass / reverb / tremple on the sound effect depending on the ship's mass and volume.

 

I just thought it might be cool to have sonic booms. They would not add anything other then looking and sounding cool.

 

This would only be a good idea if it is hard/dangerous to reach that speed in atmosphere as constantly hearing a BOOOM every 3 min would get annoying fast.

 

 

This would not take much to add so why not?

Why, would the devs, allow for an in-atmosphere craft, to exceed 340 m/s? So the size of the planet to look even smaller?

 

Planets in DU are (at maximum) 100 Km in radius. That means their cirmuference averages 628~ Km. That means that if you were to reach the speed of sound, it would take half an hour to go around a planet tracing a flat surface without any mountains in front of you. Adjust for a bit of height at 10km altitude above surface, that's about 34 minutes. You see the issue with having sonic booms now, right? It means that higher-speeds could be achieved, bringing down the scale of the planet, because sonic booms, mandate hypersonic speeds.

 

You may say "what happens if someone attacks a miner on the other side of the planet and I need to get there fast? What? Should I take 15 minutes to get there?" and the answer is "yes".  It's the same in EVE. Planets in DU are more like Regions from EVE. If an attack happens on a remote location, chances are people won't get there to save you in time, let alone manage to set up a squad to come rush to a person's aid.

 

And this ties to the subject at hand very much. People need to stop assuming "My org will single-handedly dominate a planet". No you won't. You will be just be spread thin and be punched through like a 1 mm thin paper. You'll need multiple outposts manned to deal with their TOR (Territory Of Responsibility), like an actual army does. Which is why I advcoate against hypersonic vehicles.

 

Although if the Devs were to add sonic booms, they should add them for ships ENTERING and EXITING the planet. That way people may actually get a "Heads-up" notice of "someone entered the planet", without having to rely on a terrible and shitty mechanism like a "Local Chat" and actually have a thing about pilots and manufacturers scripting in "trajectory landings" in order to not make a shit load of sound entering a plnaet, letting everyone and their mother know "HEY WE ARE HERE TO RAID Y'ALL, COME AND WRECK US, JUST FOLLOW THE ABNOXIOUS WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZZZ".

 

So yeah, add sonic booms on entering and exiting a planet, make the different with the good ol' Doppler effect. Having sonic SPEEDS and sonic booms on planetary aircraft? No thanks, I like my immersion working by admiring the forests and meadows of a planet. Possible tool for trolls? Maybe, but it's their fuel they waste and it's your responsibility to shoot those trolls out off the sky.

 

 

Cheers.

[Aesras]

I don't necessarily believe we need the sonic boom, but I do like the idea of having sonic booms if we are to have them when entering and exiting the planet as twerk suggested. But hey that's just me

[FD3242]

It's not a difficult thing to implement. Just add a sound cue when a craft exceeds the speed of sound in atmoshpere and tune the bass / reverb / tremple on the sound effect depending on the ship's mass and volume.

 

Why, would the devs, allow for an in-atmosphere craft, to exceed 340 m/s? So the size of the planet to look even smaller?

 

Planets in DU are (at maximum) 100 Km in radius. That means their cirmuference averages 628~ Km. That means that if you were to reach the speed of sound, it would take half an hour to go around a planet tracing a flat surface without any mountains in front of you. Adjust for a bit of height at 10km altitude above surface, that's about 34 minutes. You see the issue with having sonic booms now, right? It means that higher-speeds could be achieved, bringing down the scale of the planet, because sonic booms, mandate hypersonic speeds.

 

You may say "what happens if someone attacks a miner on the other side of the planet and I need to get there fast? What? Should I take 15 minutes to get there?" and the answer is "yes".  It's the same in EVE. Planets in DU are more like Regions from EVE. If an attack happens on a remote location, chances are people won't get there to save you in time, let alone manage to set up a squad to come rush to a person's aid.

 

And this ties to the subject at hand very much. People need to stop assuming "My org will single-handedly dominate a planet". No you won't. You will be just be spread thin and be punched through like a 1 mm thin paper. You'll need multiple outposts manned to deal with their TOR (Territory Of Responsibility), like an actual army does. Which is why I advcoate against hypersonic vehicles.

 

Although if the Devs were to add sonic booms, they should add them for ships ENTERING and EXITING the planet. That way people may actually get a "Heads-up" notice of "someone entered the planet", without having to rely on a terrible and shitty mechanism like a "Local Chat" and actually have a thing about pilots and manufacturers scripting in "trajectory landings" in order to not make a shit load of sound entering a plnaet, letting everyone and their mother know "HEY WE ARE HERE TO RAID Y'ALL, COME AND WRECK US, JUST FOLLOW THE ABNOXIOUS WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZZZ".

 

So yeah, add sonic booms on entering and exiting a planet, make the different with the good ol' Doppler effect. Having sonic SPEEDS and sonic booms on planetary aircraft? No thanks, I like my immersion working by admiring the forests and meadows of a planet. Possible tool for trolls? Maybe, but it's their fuel they waste and it's your responsibility to shoot those trolls out off the sky.

 

 

Cheers.

No need to have sonic booms happen at a realistic speed, this is a game after all.

But also 340 m/s is not that fast. It would still take 4 min to get around a planet.

 

And as I said it should not be easy to reach that speed. They should only allow small aerodynamic ships to ever get close to reaching that in atmosphere. This means that these ships would be useless in combat as they would have basically no weapons.

 

Sonic booms would just happen when you hit atmosphere going that fast if they implement it as I am suggesting. You should also very rapidly low down.

[Anaximander]

No need to have sonic booms happen at a realistic speed, this is a game after all.

But also 340 m/s is not that fast. It would still take 4 min to get around a planet.

 

And as I said it should not be easy to reach that speed. They should only allow small aerodynamic ships to ever get close to reaching that in atmosphere. This means that these ships would be useless in combat as they would have basically no weapons.

 

Sonic booms would just happen when you hit atmosphere going that fast if they implement it as I am suggesting. You should also very rapidly low down.

I hope this was a typo and you meant to say 34 minutes cause a 4 min trip around a planet at 340 m/s means the planet's about 12 km in radius

 

Aerodynamics can be coded in, just add "drag force" that acts as a factor of decceleration, with "wing elements" increasing the Aerodynamics factor of a ship (up to a point and with orientation of the elements in the direction of the propulsion of the craft). But then again, you hit the ceiling of "fuel and distance projections". If your small fighter was to fly to an area and be unable to fight for a certain period of time, means nothing.

 

I'm still standing by my suggestion. Sure, sonic booms can be used as a way that adds immersion and serve a purpose, but not by having atmospheric engines that can push past the speed of sound.

 

Also, 340 m/s as top speed is fast relative to the planets' sizes. It's 1224 Kilometers per hour. That's about half the maximum range of an f16 fighter. which can reach Mach 2 (twice the speed of sound at a high altitude).

 

So yeah, 340 m/s IS WAY TOO MUCH. If fighters in DU have the same or even more fuel capacity than an F-16, it means they can cruise around a planet and have spare fuel to land with style.

 

Did I mention planets in DU are 1/60th of Earth's radius? O.o

 

You see the issue now hopefully. 340 m/s is way too much. Either that or the Devs plan on adding bigger planets later on and they do not worry for the speed of the starfighters being possible quite too much for the early planets. So I don't know, I'm not in the Dev team

[FD3242]

I hope this was a typo and you meant to say 34 minutes cause a 4 min trip around a planet at 340 m/s means the planet's about 12 km in radius

 

Aerodynamics can be coded in, just add "drag force" that acts as a factor of decceleration, with "wing elements" increasing the Aerodynamics factor of a ship (up to a point and with orientation of the elements in the direction of the propulsion of the craft). But then again, you hit the ceiling of "fuel and distance projections". If your small fighter was to fly to an area and be unable to fight for a certain period of time, means nothing.

 

I'm still standing by my suggestion. Sure, sonic booms can be used as a way that adds immersion and serve a purpose, but not by having atmospheric engines that can push past the speed of sound.

 

Also, 340 m/s as top speed is fast relative to the planets' sizes. It's 1224 Kilometers per hour. That's about half the maximum range of an f16 fighter. which can reach Mach 2 (twice the speed of sound at a high altitude).

 

So yeah, 340 m/s IS WAY TOO MUCH. If fighters in DU have the same or even more fuel capacity than an F-16, it means they can cruise around a planet and have spare fuel to land with style.

 

Did I mention planets in DU are 1/60th of Earth's radius? O.o

 

You see the issue now hopefully. 340 m/s is way too much. Either that or the Devs plan on adding bigger planets later on and they do not worry for the speed of the starfighters being possible quite too much for the early planets. So I don't know, I'm not in the Dev team

No not a typo.  100000m for 100 Km / 340 m/s = 294 seconds to travel around a planet  294 / 60 = 4.9 min to travel around a planet.

I am REALLY bad at math so maybe I did that wrong?

 

Anyhow if it is 30 min that is to long in my opinion, I think 15 min would be a good number.

 

It really dose not matter though because people will just go into space then back to the planet like in NMS. YES, I AM COMPERING THIS GAME TO NO MANS SKY!!

 

 

Also "Did I menton planets in DU are 1/60th of Earth's radius? O.o" That would make it 66Km So I think you got that wrong. They have stated multiple times that planets will be around 100 Km.

 

EDIT: ME STUPID. I looked at earth in miles not KM, STUPID STUPID STUPID.

 

P.S: I think this feature would be one they add latter along the line as it is purely visual/soundile what ever you call that.

[MasteredRed]

No not a typo.  100000m for 100 Km / 340 m/s = 294 seconds to travel around a planet  294 / 60 = 4.9 min to travel around a planet.

I am REALLY bad at math so maybe I did that wrong?

 

Anyhow if it is 30 min that is to long in my opinion, I think 15 min would be a good number.

 

It really dose not matter though because people will just go into space then back to the planet like in NMS. YES, I AM COMPERING THIS GAME TO NO MANS SKY!!

 

 

Also "Did I menton planets in DU are 1/60th of Earth's radius? O.o" That would make it 66Km So I think you got that wrong. They have stated multiple times that planets will be around 100 Km.

 

EDIT: ME STUPID. I looked at earth in miles not KM, STUPID STUPID STUPID.

 

P.S: I think this feature would be one they add latter along the line as it is purely visual/soundile what ever you call that.

So twerk has been addressing this and his points are very valid. I didn't even think of the speed at the time, but he is right. 

 

A speed of similar sorts would break the feeling of the game. This is a matter of opinion, but I do think you are wrong on how your thought about travel in DU should be. The image for the game is that this would require time for things to happen. That means travel wouldn't be an easy feat and would require effort. That's generally what has been accepted. The idea to be able travel around a planet in 4 minutes?!?! That's just not acceptable. At the speed of sound, you are right that it would take only about 4 minutes to travel around the planet. There should take time for things to travel around.

 

While we are not stating that planetary travel should take hours upon hours, this speed is too much. Not to mention, the technical limitations of loading objects ate a rate of this magnitude, that would be intense.

[Caesares]

Sonic booms would be difficult to implement. Imagine this, thousands of ships, on one planet, producing sonic booms. It would be a pain for the servers, and could make it nearly impossible to fly.

 

Maybe as a sound effect it could be cool.

[MasteredRed]

Sonic booms would be difficult to implement. Imagine this, thousands of ships, on one planet, producing sonic booms. It would be a pain for the servers, and could make it nearly impossible to fly.

 

Maybe as a sound effect it could be cool.

I mean, maybe you can make an illusion that the sonic boom in this universe is lower than the one in IRL, or you could say that the engines will just produce this sound after a certain point due to a mechanic in the technology. I mean, it's not impossible but making this effect as an actual representation of what happens in real life physics could break some things.

[FD3242]

So twerk has been addressing this and his points are very valid. I didn't even think of the speed at the time, but he is right. 

 

A speed of similar sorts would break the feeling of the game. This is a matter of opinion, but I do think you are wrong on how your thought about travel in DU should be. The image for the game is that this would require time for things to happen. That means travel wouldn't be an easy feat and would require effort. That's generally what has been accepted. The idea to be able travel around a planet in 4 minutes?!?! That's just not acceptable. At the speed of sound, you are right that it would take only about 4 minutes to travel around the planet. There should take time for things to travel around.

 

While we are not stating that planetary travel should take hours upon hours, this speed is too much. Not to mention, the technical limitations of loading objects ate a rate of this magnitude, that would be intense.

"A speed of similar sorts would break the feeling of the game. This is a matter of opinion, but I do think you are wrong on how your thought about travel in DU should be."

 

I disagree, as you said "This is a matter of opinion". I think that such a slow paced game would be boring. Do not get me wrong I think things should take time and be hard but not to the same extent that a lot of the community wants it will be.

 

But in the end speed really dose not matter for planets because as I said before "It really dose not matter though because people will just go into space then back to the planet like in NMS."

 

"Not to mention, the technical limitations of loading objects ate a rate of this magnitude, that would be intense."

 

Yes that could be a problem, they could lower the detail that things render in the faster you move to fix this.

[FD3242]

Sonic booms would be difficult to implement. Imagine this, thousands of ships, on one planet, producing sonic booms. It would be a pain for the servers, and could make it nearly impossible to fly.

 

Maybe as a sound effect it could be cool.

The client will all ready have all the info it needs to decide if the ship should make a sonic boom. So it would only add load on the client and not even that much.

 

Edit: It's as simple as getting the ships velocity which the client probably all ready has. Then playing a sound and making some particles.

[Anaximander]

No not a typo.  100000m for 100 Km / 340 m/s = 294 seconds to travel around a planet  294 / 60 = 4.9 min to travel around a planet.

I am REALLY bad at math so maybe I did that wrong?

 

Anyhow if it is 30 min that is to long in my opinion, I think 15 min would be a good number.

 

It really dose not matter though because people will just go into space then back to the planet like in NMS. YES, I AM COMPERING THIS GAME TO NO MANS SKY!!

 

 

Also "Did I menton planets in DU are 1/60th of Earth's radius? O.o" That would make it 66Km So I think you got that wrong. They have stated multiple times that planets will be around 100 Km.

 

EDIT: ME STUPID. I looked at earth in miles not KM, STUPID STUPID STUPID.

 

P.S: I think this feature would be one they add latter along the line as it is purely visual/soundile what ever you call that.

 

!00 Km = planet's radius, radius being the distance from the center of the planet to its surface. 2R = Diameter.

 

Circumference = the perimeter of a circle? Same thing but for a Sphere. Aka 2πR (2 * 3.142 * 100000 meters). That's the circumference.

 

Unless your fighter jets can tunnel through a planet, I guess you'll have go around the planet , and since there's no faster route than the shortest one (no obstacles altitude), we take the circumference of a planet, divide it to seconds of an hour, find out how many meters per second you need to travel at to do a full "orbit" around a planet. With the 100 kilometer planet adius, at 174 m/s on a fighter, a planet can be cruised around in 1 hour.

 

And yes, YOU CAN do a high altitude dart to a location, however, it may not be possible to have both atmospheric and vacuum enngines on the same fighter. They are fighters, not frigates. You can't fly an F-16 in space, its atmospheric engines do not work without that thing called "air pressure" or "oxygen". And let's face it, in a futurespace with machines that can warp space-time, I bet F-16 technology is dirt-cheap and affordable for fighter / interceptors, let alone, fuel efficient. If NQ was to add "gravity stops working at 50km off the ground, but atmosphere ends at 40 km off the ground" your F-16 could get itself into vacuum (no friction = more acceleration) and do an arc as it re-enters the atmoshpere. Sure, it would be badass, and the sonic boom would be something to alert people "oh, the sky-knights are coming".

 

Thing is, the GDC stream proved one thing. Inertia is a beast. If you were to re-enter an atmosphere at mach 5, with a craft meant to tolerate at a bare maximum 1 Mach top speed, and atmosphere of 40km height from the graound, you would end up having about 23 seconds to brake enough to not become acquainted with the ground. Oh, and that gravity thing? Yeah, it's gonna make your slowing down even worse, o na fighter that has a maximum possible manevuerability of 1/5 of its main propulsion. 

 

So, all in all, sure, you COULD try a "sky-dive" with an F-16 in an arc through higher orbit, just don't expect to be able to brake fast enough before you become one with the ground.

 

Also, I never said the feature is stupid. I just want things to have meaning in the game. If the Sonic Boom can be something that a veteran can hear and be like "loud boom, little duration, lower on the spectrum, definitely a cruiser entering the atmosphere", as well as the aforementioned "trajcetory landing" to avoid making a heckton of a noise and having time for our Lord and Savior, Impulse, to deliver us from inertia.

[FD3242]

!00 Km = planet's radius, radius being the distance from the center of the planet to its surface. 2R = Diameter.

 

Circumference = the perimeter of a circle? Same thing but for a Sphere. Aka 2πR (2 * 3.142 * 100000 meters). That's the circumference.

 

Unless your fighter jets can tunnel through a planet, I guess you'll have go around the planet , and since there's no faster route than the shortest one (no obstacles altitude), we take the circumference of a planet, divide it to seconds of an hour, find out how many meters per second you need to travel at to do a full "orbit" around a planet. With the 100 kilometer planet adius, at 174 m/s on a fighter, a planet can be cruised around in 1 hour.

 

And yes, YOU CAN do a high altitude dart to a location, however, it may not be possible to have both atmospheric and vacuum enngines on the same fighter. They are fighters, not frigates. You can't fly an F-16 in space, its atmospheric engines do not work without that thing called "air pressure" or "oxygen". And let's face it, in a futurespace with machines that can warp space-time, I bet F-16 technology is dirt-cheap and affordable for fighter / interceptors, let alone, fuel efficient. If NQ was to add "gravity stops working at 50km off the ground, but atmosphere ends at 40 km off the ground" your F-16 could get itself into vacuum (no friction = more acceleration) and do an arc as it re-enters the atmoshpere. Sure, it would be badass, and the sonic boom would be something to alert people "oh, the sky-knights are coming".

 

Thing is, the GDC stream proved one thing. Inertia is a beast. If you were to re-enter an atmosphere at mach 5, with a craft meant to tolerate at a bare maximum 1 Mach top speed, and atmosphere of 40km height from the graound, you would end up having about 23 seconds to brake enough to not become acquainted with the ground. Oh, and that gravity thing? Yeah, it's gonna make your slowing down even worse, o na fighter that has a maximum possible manevuerability of 1/5 of its main propulsion. 

 

So, all in all, sure, you COULD try a "sky-dive" with an F-16 in an arc through higher orbit, just don't expect to be able to brake fast enough before you become one with the ground.

 

Also, I never said the feature is stupid. I just want things to have meaning in the game. If the Sonic Boom can be something that a veteran can hear and be like "loud boom, little duration, lower on the spectrum, definitely a cruiser entering the atmosphere", as well as the aforementioned "trajcetory landing" to avoid making a heckton of a noise and having time for our Lord and Savior, Impulse, to deliver us from inertia.

I never said you called it stupid.

 

Also I was under the impression raduis and Circumference where the same thing. So I was thinking the circumference was 100 km.

This is what happens when you drop out of school in second grade xD. Not a joke. don't take it as one.

 

You can clearly see a small fighter flying from one planet to another in the first E3 trailer.

[Anaximander]

I never said you called it stupid.

 

Also I was under the impression raduis and Circumference where the same thing. So I was thinking the circumference was 100 km.

This is what happens when you drop out of school in second grade xD. Not a joke. don't take it as one.

 

You can clearly see a small fighter flying from one planet to another in the first E3 trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htWbQHOymuY

 

That's a trailer though. It was meant to represent ''we got the tech for a seamless transition between planets without loading screens''. And NQ has said they brought planets so close to one another to screencap these beautiful sights of planets in the sky above, showing that they are real and not just 2D drawings.

[MasteredRed]

I never said you called it stupid.

 

Also I was under the impression raduis and Circumference where the same thing. So I was thinking the circumference was 100 km.

This is what happens when you drop out of school in second grade xD. Not a joke. don't take it as one.

 

You can clearly see a small fighter flying from one planet to another in the first E3 trailer.

 

 

That's a trailer though. It was meant to represent ''we got the tech for a seamless transition between planets without loading screens''. And NQ has said they brought planets so close to one another to screencap these beautiful sights of planets in the sky above, showing that they are real and not just 2D drawings.

Twerk is right. These are trailers, the planets are brought closer together on purpose, and time is accelerated at multiple points. 

 

If you want something more informative, watch this.

 

[FD3242]

That's a trailer though. It was meant to represent ''we got the tech for a seamless transition between planets without loading screens''. And NQ has said they brought planets so close to one another to screencap these beautiful sights of planets in the sky above, showing that they are real and not just 2D drawings.

Ok you got me there.

 

Anyhow, I do not see Sonic booms effecting the game in any meaningful sense so either they have them or they don't. I think it would be cool but I don't need them.

 

But this is a mute point. We both have opposite opinions. So lets just end it here.

 

Thank you for being kind throughout this discussion, and putting up with my horrible math skills. If you can even call them skills.  .

[FD3242]

Twerk is right. These are trailers, the planets are brought closer together on purpose, and time is accelerated at multiple points. 

 

If you want something more informative, watch this.

 

I was aware that the planets where closer intentionally. I was referring the the fact that it was in space and atmosphere. Which as he said it may change Edit: at least that's what I got from what he said.

 

I have watched that video 100 times.

[Lethys]

I don't think they're neccessary. It would be annoying to constantly hear those booms everywhere.

 

RL comparisons always suck but here we go:

And yes, sonic speeds would be definitely too much for DU. That would take away emergent gameplay and response time.

If we take Alioth with 100km radius as a model then it's roughly 1/60 the radius of earth. So an appropriate speed would be 340/60 = 5,6m/s for traveling. Since this is boring, it will be something like 50-100 m/s, depending on engines. This leads to traveling times between 3,4hours to 1,7 hours. So if your outpost is on the other side of the planet you'd roughly need 100 - 50 min to reach your target.

To me this would make much more sense and gameplay more interesting because:

- planets should feel big

- players are forced to build outposts to defend vast territories

- a response force has an actual meaning (people ready to go anywhere all the time - because every minute counts)

- it should be a huge task and would need thousands of players to own a whole planet - not 50 because they can be anywhere within seconds

- once space travel is invented and even if a planet is more or less under the control of one org or an alliance, this speed makes sure invasions have a chance. It adds a timer to be able to build a bridgehead

[Hotwingz]

Hmm, supersonic speeds aside, wouldnt a space hop get you where you need to go fast?

 

I think its called a parabolic jump.

 

And me personally would much rather have a sound que when something breaks the athmosphere. Sounds like sonic booms are nice but when you start hearing them too much it becomes annoying very fast.

 

I think it was GW2 that had this skill with a bird call. Very cool in video's but once in game it got old very fast because you would hear it everywhere all the time.