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Safe zone bubbles in space (nomad orgs in mind)


bastanold

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I posted elsewhere about pursuing a nomadic lifestyle in Dual Universe and after a little bit of discussion came up with a semi-idea.

 

The idea of safe zones due to finding and activating a type of alien ruin is mentioned in the devblogs, but it might have been from the perspective of planets. What about alien ruins found in an asteroid belt or deep space? Something like this would have great value for nomadic orgs or groups, since it could be seen as a migration point. Nomads of old migrated from one area of pasturage to another so the herds could stay fed. Space nomads from Alioth would use these sort of safe zones as their migration points where they could remain in relative safety until the next move. This would be particularly applicable for safe zones in asteroid belts which is 'pasturage' for space-faring nomads, as it turns out. 

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I really do not like the idea of safe zones other then the spawn one on planets. So in space too would bother really bother me.

 

Sorry if I missed the point I found your post very hard to read for what ever reason.

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No.

 

Planet mining > asteroid mining.

Planets = tens of kilometers of veins in one direction.

Nomads of old also had to fend against raiders in the night. How about that? The reason why nomadic life was abandoned, was - you guessed it - you can't load a castle on a caravan. Safezones have been mentioned as the equivalent of EVE's NPC stations. They are plenty but not abundant, especially in null-sec. You are meant to dock in them to chill in safety. And who is gonna need these safezones? People who fly smaller ships, not an org that flies in a super-carrier. Those guys have no issues.

Also, safezones are generated around Arkships, not relics, that's been abandoned as an idea, they updated in on theri KS. Why? Because there are people woh want to build in peace and not have to deal with any and all other people in an MMO. Having safezones in space, thus makes no sense.

Protection bubbles are another thing, which could be tied with anchoring of constructs in space. Protection Bubbles are essnetialy reinforcement timers and CAN be taken down by a siege. So what you could be asking is "can we put on protection bubbles on ships?" and the answer is ; "I don't know, feel free to message NQ as of this, or wait for a confirmation on it."

Cheers.

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Hmm, that's a good point both bring up. For one, in EVE a bookmarked safe is actually really safe assuming no one using probes. If one can bookmark deep space(as opposed to system space) that would be about as safe as a needle in a haystack. A pos is too sedentary though unless it's something that can be assembled and disassembled w/o timers.

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Also, Capt. Tweek, what is the 'KS' that Novaquark has? Don't know what that is.

KickStarter. It's the lazyman's way of saying it :P

 

 

Hmm, that's a good point both bring up. For one, in EVE a bookmarked safe is actually really safe assuming no one using probes. If one can bookmark deep space(as opposed to system space) that would be about as safe as a needle in a haystack. A pos is too sedentary though unless it's something that can be assembled and disassembled w/o timers.

Yeah, a bookmarked safe is as safe as it can get. However, in EVE, you are limited by a premade ship and EVE's gimmicks. In DU, you can havea person on board your destroyer dedicated at probing the system, so, bookmarks are relative in safety.

 

If NQ gives us the ability to reverse bookmark a place, AKA, probing for jump coodinates then jumping and bookmarking the location, scouts will be used to a great length in "off-the-grid" systems, like shipyards of a faction, or pre-planned bookmarks for fleets to jump to on a system.

 

Remember, for all intents and purposes, DU is 100% wormhole-space. You don't know what's in a system you entered, unless you've been there before, so, having a scanner is a quintessential thing on a bridge.

 

However, since there's no arbitrary rule saying "you can't put this and this together" on a construct, a station could -technically- have a warp drive on itself. Which is the keypoint of this. NQ has brought up two kinds of Core Units, static and dynamic. Dynamic are the blue ones they showcased on many videos so far, but static are, as the name implies, meant for stationary things. If a Construct, can only equip a protection bubble once stationary, and to be stationary, it must be within a star system, then it's safe to assume that deep space "Trade hubs" won't be a thing.

 

Likewise, I can see the problem with stargates being sovled the same way, stargates can only be activated once their construct as a whole is tied to a stationary Core Unit, meaning no moving stargates tied to a Titan class ship.

 

 

P.S. : A dark space station, would not work, since, you know, you got to refuel it, because it's a station. And warp between systems will take between a week and a month, so, good luck if you miss your bookmark by a few AUs.

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KickStarter. It's the lazyman's way of saying it :P

 

 

Yeah, a bookmarked safe is as safe as it can get. However, in EVE, you are limited by a premade ship and EVE's gimmicks. In DU, you can havea person on board your destroyer dedicated at probing the system, so, bookmarks are relative in safety.

 

If NQ gives us the ability to reverse bookmark a place, AKA, probing for jump coodinates then jumping and bookmarking the location, scouts will be used to a great length in "off-the-grid" systems, like shipyards of a faction, or pre-planned bookmarks for fleets to jump to on a system.

 

Remember, for all intents and purposes, DU is 100% wormhole-space. You don't know what's in a system you entered, unless you've been there before, so, having a scanner is a quintessential thing on a bridge.

 

However, since there's no arbitrary rule saying "you can't put this and this together" on a construct, a station could -technically- have a warp drive on itself. Which is the keypoint of this. NQ has brought up two kinds of Core Units, static and dynamic. Dynamic are the blue ones they showcased on many videos so far, but static are, as the name implies, meant for stationary things. If a Construct, can only equip a protection bubble once stationary, and to be stationary, it must be within a star system, then it's safe to assume that deep space "Trade hubs" won't be a thing.

 

Likewise, I can see the problem with stargates being sovled the same way, stargates can only be activated once their construct as a whole is tied to a stationary Core Unit, meaning no moving stargates tied to a Titan class ship.

 

 

P.S. : A dark space station, would not work, since, you know, you got to refuel it, because it's a station. And warp between systems will take between a week and a month, so, good luck if you miss your bookmark by a few AUs.

 

Where was it stated that stationary constructs can only be used inside a star system? It seems like they should be able to be used anywhere. I agree that some modules will only be able to be used when stationary, though, as that makes a lot of sense. 

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Where was it stated that stationary constructs can only be used inside a star system? It seems like they should be able to be used anywhere. I agree that some modules will only be able to be used when stationary, though, as that makes a lot of sense.

 

 

I said ''if''., in the sense of ''if some modules only function on static ohjects then...''. I mean SOME balance needs to exist, so we won't end with protection bubble death stars. Dynamic Cores should only have shields as protection, just saying.

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If a Construct, can only equip a protection bubble once stationary, and to be stationary, it must be within a star system, then it's safe to assume that deep space "Trade hubs" won't be a thing.

 

 

Okay, I was just wondering if they had specified that anywhere, as that seemed odd to me that they would delineate the functioning of cores inside versus outside a star system.

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I would imagine that safezones will probably appear somewhere around once per 2-10 systems as they have stated that they want them to be quite rare. 

 

This is cool but I do think they should be quite rare like they said, maybe even rarer. If they implement too many of these i feel like they will be used and abused way too much for all the wrong reasons.

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Nomads of old also had to fend against raiders in the night. How about that? The reason why nomadic life was abandoned, was - you guessed it - you can't load a castle on a caravan.

False. Nomadic lifeform was abandoned because it prevented field farming and stopped the progress of technology.

 

But gamewise would you want to stay logged in all night to guard your stuff.

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False. Nomadic lifeform was abandoned because it prevented field farming and stopped the progress of technology.

 

But gamewise would you want to stay logged in all night to guard your stuff.

No, but also that's why I'm building underground. Building on the surface is not mandatory. Also, NQ should not put 100000000000000000 safezons in the game, cause it would be a joke of a game afterwards. It wouldn't be a sandbox after that, it would be a playbox for babies. You wanna be nomadic or an explorer? You forfeit safety of the safezones or protection bubbles.

 

The game is about Risk and Reward on some playstyles. If NQ was to make systems without Arkships (and safezones that way) being richer in minerals of rarer quality and a value, then you should have to worry about parking your ship pel mel in the middle of nowhere. Stupidity should be punished by any means. You go up against a heavily armored guy and you brought a 9mm pistol and no extra magazines? Tough luck, stupidty is punished. Likewise, you go into "nomadic" stuff? Guess what, if you are found having parked your ship in the middle of nowhere and a person blows it up, tough luck, your risk, you fault for parking the ship in the middle of nowhere.

 

The point is for Safezones to be far and few between (since the Arkships were few to begin with). Players are the ones to build artificial safezones (Protection Bubbles). But those things are for CIVILISED and COLONONISED space. Nomads roam where there's no civilisation or society, as well as explorers.

 

Some playstyles are easy and free of risk, like living in a safezone and being a creator or RPer. Som other have risk, as you are doing said playtstyles far from safety and for that, you are rewarded accordingly. This is why I chose to :

 

1) got a safe base somwhere underground WITH other people, so I don't have to forfeit sleep - it's an MMO and it shouldn't cater to antisocial people who want to play the game solo and be on equal footing with 1000 people orgs.

 

2) embrace risk and reward and accept that my mistakes, should be penalised by the game in one way or another.

 

 

As I  said, let's not ask for the game to be a playbox for babies, complete with the admins being nanies, because Lil' 30 Year Old Timmy didn't use his hgher cognitive functions to realise the guy who told him "give me all your money and I'll double them!!!111" was a scammer.Having safezones EVERWHERE , is a step towards making the game for Lil' Timmy, who's a person who doesn't want to engage his mind to the slightest and being on equal ground with a person that does.

 

First it's the safezones being everywhere, then it's the admins banning pirates and then the game ends up with nobody playing.

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A nomadic fleet wouldn't have to guard its stuff any more than someone with their stuff on a planet or station(outside a safe zone). With shields that have 48hr reinforcement timers I'd put that on a really big ship then put all my stuff in there. Something huge like an EVE carrier or super(or, god forbid, a titan).

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And to iterate, having a shield with a reinforcement timer is the answer to safe zones. I mean, only build what you can replace. And if you can't defend it maybe look into that some more before building it.

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Why do you need a protection bubble when you can just have a massive shield generator that makes it near impossible for raiders to damage you? You could even have massive solar panels to help with fuel economy. If it is a nomad fleet (like the migrant fleet from Mass Effect) then NQ could add in Fortress Shields that creates a shield around multiple ships (the way that would work is a somewhat different discussion)

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A nomadic fleet wouldn't have to guard its stuff any more than someone with their stuff on a planet or station(outside a safe zone). With shields that have 48hr reinforcement timers I'd put that on a really big ship then put all my stuff in there. Something huge like an EVE carrier or super(or, god forbid, a titan).

You see the problem with "48 hours shield" on a Titan, right?

 

Titans already got defences in the context of DU. 

 

1) Armor.

 

2) Crew.

 

3) Rows and rows of guns. This is not EVE, a Titan can have fast tracking / smaller caliber weaponry to deal with smaller ships / crafts.

 

Otherwise, the game becomes a very stupid PvP game. 

 

"Oh, we lose the battle as we went 1v10? LOL, engage Special Snowflake Shield 49 hours timer". Enemy is gone after 12 hours because we attacked on sunday night and the enemy has to go to work on monday? Take down Spacial Snowflake shield and keep melting their stuff. LOLOLOLOLOLOL"

 

This is the game you want I suppose? An even WORSE version of EVE's reinforcement timers, with ships haveing reinforcement tiemrs as well?

 

No, stupidity needs to be penalised at every turn. You don't have the right to enter the null-sec and expect to be treated as a mobile Territory on a planet. Shields, yes, POWERFUL shields? Yes. INSANE ampage out of your myriad of reactors, powering your shield till Kingdom Cometh? YES. But no protection bubbles for ships. That's plain moronic and the worst thing for PvP. Why build a ship with good defenses when you can have the "48 hour timer of the Special Snowflake Carebear" ? In fact, why bother with adding armor lol, just more 49 hour shields lol/

You want safety? You want to be guarded on your sleep? Build within a safezone or a protection bubble owned by your organisation. That's what they are there for.

 

Ships should not have reinforcement timers. That's for stations and territories on the ground. You want a nomad ship? Get a crew. Oh, you want to be solo nomad? Too bad, the omega wolf dies alone.

 

You want to be protected when offline? Park the ship in a safezone. There's no safezone? Pay upkeep in a station's hangar. That's what Stations ran by players are there for.

 

And yes, I am firm on my belief that certain things should demand that they are attached to a stationary consturct, built on a Static Core. Things like that, should include protection bubbles and stargates.

 

You wanna be a nomad, accept the fact you will be living near danger. Same goes for wannabe explorers. Or bounty hunters, who whine n the forums about people who pwned them when they tried to gank on them.

 

Accept the risk, earn the reward, you can't be a nomad and demand the game to pamper you on a risky endeavor.

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Why do you need a protection bubble when you can just have a massive shield generator that makes it near impossible for raiders to damage you? You could even have massive solar panels to help with fuel economy. If it is a nomad fleet (like the migrant fleet from Mass Effect) then NQ could add in Fortress Shields that creates a shield around multiple ships (the way that would work is a somewhat different discussion)

This guy gets it. More or less what you say, is having a Shield Generator, that expands a ship's shield to engulf other ships, at the cost of fuel. That's more than acceptable when it comes to ships. But not the 48 hour timers meant for sieges on planets.

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Safe zone? There is only 1. There may be another about 2 years after release. So expect them to be rare. Also the area they cover could be considered small relative to the size of the universe, but 20km radius area seems quite big in the beginning.

 

Static cores should be able to be built anywhere tho, otherwise how do we get space stations? I don't see the point of building in deep space since it's far away from all those lovely resources, but that shouldn't stop people from having secret deep space bases.

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Capt.Twerk,

Okay, I see your point about role reversal with a mobile station that has a timer shield. It would be like having a mobile citadel in EVE and bumping it up to a POCO to destroy it. Death star stuff basically with the added ace-in-the-hole of a timer shield to fall on if sitf. That would not be something I'd want to see in DU.

 

If someone can build a gazillion joule shield that spans a km, great. I'd still build the huge ship just to make up for those not online to have a place to park that isn't a planet. It's not permanent but it's safer than out in space(I hope the server can handle all those objects that are sure to be floating all around when the owners go offline).

 

And no carebear sentiment here. I live in losec in EVE. My reasoning has to do with thinking through a possible lifestyle for DU. That's the extent of that agenda. Thinking it through in a forum is a great place to get new ideas or feedback. The intent is to put forward an idea and allow it to be crowdsourced to refinement. That's why I post really.

 

Cheers!

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Capt.Twerk,

Okay, I see your point about role reversal with a mobile station that has a timer shield. It would be like having a mobile citadel in EVE and bumping it up to a POCO to destroy it. Death star stuff basically with the added ace-in-the-hole of a timer shield to fall on if sitf. That would not be something I'd want to see in DU.

 

If someone can build a gazillion joule shield that spans a km, great. I'd still build the huge ship just to make up for those not online to have a place to park that isn't a planet. It's not permanent but it's safer than out in space(I hope the server can handle all those objects that are sure to be floating all around when the owners go offline).

 

And no carebear sentiment here. I live in losec in EVE. My reasoning has to do with thinking through a possible lifestyle for DU. That's the extent of that agenda. Thinking it through in a forum is a great place to get new ideas or feedback. The intent is to put forward an idea and allow it to be crowdsourced to refinement. That's why I post really.

 

Cheers!

I live in null :P

 

Point is, a gazillion joule shield is something organic in the game. It's an aspect that can be tackled via boarding. A 48h timer on shield can't be tackled that way, only with time. Timers are put on stationary targets, because they can't change where they'll be, while a ship would.

 

And yes the Citadel POCO analogy is accurate.

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Hi there,

 

Just to clarify a few points about safe zones:

- Yes, there will be a safezone around the Arkship.

- If some other Arkships (that have successfully landed and with colonists still alive) are discovered, then there will be a Safe Zone around them.

- Discovering another Arkship is supposed (at the moment, but it might change) to be extremely rare.

- All this doesn't mean other ideas have been abandoned: ruins from an extinct civilization as places to build/activate Safe Zones is still a possible idea, and if validated, it will probably the most classic way to see new safe zones appearing. However, if the team goes with this idea, it doesn't mean either that you will be able to find such ruins on each planet (far from it).

 

Best regards,

Nyzaltar.

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Hi there,

 

Just to clarify a few points about safe zones:

- Yes, there will be a safezone around the Arkship.

- If some other Arkships (that have successfully landed and with colonists still alive) are discovered, then there will be a Safe Zone around them.

- Discovering another Arkship is supposed (at the moment, but it might change) to be extremely rare.

- All this doesn't mean other ideas have been abandoned: ruins from an extinct civilization as places to build/activate Safe Zones is still a possible idea, and if validated, it will probably the most classic way to see new safe zones appearing. However, if the team goes with this idea, it doesn't mean either that you will be able to find such ruins on each planet (far from it).

 

Best regards,

Nyzaltar.

If Arkships are found that have - for whatever reason - ended up broken and without a safezone around them, should we expect a form of "treasure hunting" in regards to Kyrium as a rare salvagable material?

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