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Cloaking device


ATLANT

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The developers have indeed said they want stealth mode! Not easy to find the source though.

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/490-beware-of-the-afk-cloaker/#entry3428

 

Stealth would definitely be an awesome addition, adding a whole new way to play the game, and also possibly make logging out safer. Also, it would be good for solo players who would like to hide their stuff. Of course there would be negative effects to using it; most likely you would be revealed upon using anything that consumes more than a little bit of energy.

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Cloaking device. Energy consumption increases exponentially. Unable to fire and make hyperspace travel in stealth mode

 

how do u mean "exponentially"?

what is a "hyperspace travel"? (hint: there is no such thing)

 

You have to prevent afk campers - thats a big point that comes with cloaks. 

 

Your points are already somewhat good - make it expensive in terms of energy usage. Make weapons useless while cloaked, except you have the tech for maybe cloaked bombers or something. There has to be always negative points to counter the good stuff. 

 

Plus, you'd need some kind of detection for defenders. make that hard to detect, make it even nearly impossible when a good engineer is on board. 

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1.It is not in this section

2.Search the forums shows no response in the list on the first page. In addition, developers answer in the comments.

Therefore, it can be found only by those who have seen it before, or the person who will be systematically read every comment on the forum. I'm sorry, but I'm new member and I can not spend so much time for searching. And thanks to this new topick searchers will find that answer

 

P.S. We should discuss this topic in more detail in this forum section

 

Make time hiding exponentially dependent on energy. Example: a minute of the device is 10 units, 50 units of two minutes. "hyperspace travel" its fast travel when ship does not use the main engines

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1.It is not in this section

2.Search the forums shows no response in the list on the first page. In addition, developers answer in the comments.

Therefore, it can be found only by those who have seen it before, or the person who will be systematically read every comment on the forum. I'm sorry, but I'm new member and I can not spend so much time for searching. And thanks to this new topick searchers will find that answer

 

P.S. We should discuss this topic in more detail in this forum section

 

huh curios... found that topic with "cloaking" immediatly. But it's hard to find - i agree

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how do u mean "exponentially"?

what is a "hyperspace travel"? (hint: there is no such thing)

 

You have to prevent afk campers - thats a big point that comes with cloaks. 

 

Your points are already somewhat good - make it expensive in terms of energy usage. Make weapons useless while cloaked, except you have the tech for maybe cloaked bombers or something. There has to be always negative points to counter the good stuff. 

 

Plus, you'd need some kind of detection for defenders. make that hard to detect, make it even nearly impossible when a good engineer is on board. 

Actually, energy usage would not be linked to the field itself.

 

The EM field that would refract light, would simply be a calibrated shield module(s) that are constantly rotating around the ship to make consic radiation not touch the ship, thus "invisibility". However, if another ship was to even comre remotely near the cloaked ship, said proximity and emissions, would make the capacitor of the cloaked ship go out very very quickly, thus, the stealth has a very weird "roximitty" basis.

 

EVE was not so full of shit after all, ships in cloak do lose their invisibility field if they get near an object of any kind that's not cloaked, as the invisibility bubble "pops".

 

However, the OP doesn't get into account some things, like skill training on using said moduels, or different types of detection, like detectig ships easily, if they are heavier / more massive via gravitometry, so his idea of "cloaked drone battleships" (as his entire post collection it becomes more and more apparent as of what the OP is aiming for), won't really work as a plan. Invisibility means people can't see you, it doesn't mean you suddenly vanished from time and space and cannot be picekd up by other means.

 

I am an advocate for modular designs and add-ons with utility when it comes to fitting a ship. Make a shield module have an "add-on" that makes the shield around a ship intensify to the point it block light from touching the ship, but make said shield drop after another ship gets near for a certain pyeriod which is tied to a ship's capacitor size - as Capacitors, are meant to compensate for fluctuations in a powergrid, they are not accumulators, which are the things that actually STORE power out of a generator.

 

Also, make people who use cloak unable to see outside their ship, as invisibility works BOTH ways, so cloaky ships actually take brains to fly and needing actually a crew of multiple people to oeprate them and navigate with them. Gravitometric scanners for the win.

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2.Search the forums shows no response in the list on the first page. 

 

Use advanced search. There are also many ways of finding cloaking related topics, such as stealth, camo or detection. This word search also picks up if the word was said in a reply, not just the original post.

 

 

 "hyperspace travel" its fast travel when ship does not use the main engines

 

In DU, there are two different methods of FTL. The first is Warp, using your standard Alcubierre system of comppressing space-time, and the other is through the use of jumpgates, however the way that that works is unknown. Examples include a permanent wormhole, quantum teleportation or a bridge that goes through a higher dimension (aka, hyperspace). Note that warp travel is meant for interplanetary use, whereas jumpgates are for interstellar use, and that what you are referring to as 'main engines' are called 'sub-light' engines (it makes you sound more impressive that way). 

 

 

Now to add my point: I think there should be a warp drive that can be used by a stealth ship, but it is REALLY SLOW so as to not cause many visible fluctuations in space-time. Other than that, the main way some of your favourite space games say they detect other ships with is with heat signatures. In order to hide it, you need heat sinks to bottle up the heat energy so that it does not radiate into space and let people know where you are. However, when heat levels get too high, you would need to either drop this stealthy business or let it continue to heat the ship up, to the detriment of the crew and ship systems. Eventually, an override kicks in and jettisons the heat sinks into space, causing you to lose your cloaking but save what might be left of the ship (just hope your warp drive didn't die, otherwise you are a sitting duck).

 

Edit: damn you Twerk for getting there before me!

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If not true cloaking. Then perhaps we could have a photon scattering device that diverts the sensors photons being sent out by the sensors (or a localized gravity field that bends the photons around the ship) effectively being cloaked. All under the assumption we are indeed utilizing photons, that travel at speed of light, for our "ping" like sensor readings

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If not true cloaking. Then perhaps we could have a photon scattering device that diverts the sensors photons being sent out by the sensors (or a localized gravity field that bends the photons around the ship) effectively being cloaked. All under the assumption we are indeed utilizing photons, that travel at speed of light, for our "ping" like sensor readings

That's exactly what twerk was referring to. I approve of this idea
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Cloak and how stable it is, or how easily it deactivates, should be balanced with its usage in combat. A cloak field that is stable and undetectable except in extreme cases should be balanced out with severe handicaps in propulsion and combat. Something that's limited and possibly faulty should in turn have more usefulness in combat. In fact, Twerk's idea would be great in providing two types of cloaking technology for different applications. EVE has something like that with general and covert cloaks. Neither allows for combat while cloaked but the latter allows for warp. Maybe in DU have a cloak that is intended for recon and another to ambush. The former is difficult to detect but heavily penalizes propulsion and prohibits combat while in use, while the latter allows for target locking while cloaked but is more easily detected (not as complete a cloak). 

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Cloak and how stable it is, or how easily it deactivates, should be balanced with its usage in combat. A cloak field that is stable and undetectable except in extreme cases should be balanced out with severe handicaps in propulsion and combat. Something that's limited and possibly faulty should in turn have more usefulness in combat. In fact, Twerk's idea would be great in providing two types of cloaking technology for different applications. EVE has something like that with general and covert cloaks. Neither allows for combat while cloaked but the latter allows for warp. Maybe in DU have a cloak that is intended for recon and another to ambush. The former is difficult to detect but heavily penalizes propulsion and prohibits combat while in use, while the latter allows for target locking while cloaked but is more easily detected (not as complete a cloak). 

Thing is, EVE has arbitrary factors, AKA, CCP's Devs' whims. In DU the building is free-form, with logical limitations.

 

You got a ship in a certain size, you want to add X amount of weaponry, Y amount of  propulsion modules, you want to net those propulsions with an afterburner module that passive sotres up energy (like what a Capacitor Boosterr SHOULD actually have been doing in EVE) and then you rig the whole ship's systems with your own relays to an accumulator (a battery) which is tied to a capacitor (an emergency battery for circuit hiccups) with the accumulator and capacitor being linked to a generator or more than one, generators dictate ampage, the whole circuitry and the type of relays dicate wattage.

If terms confuse some peasants, ampage = mana regen, wattage = mana pool. And yes. EVE is a fantasy MMO with a sci-fi skin due to the "endless capacitors".

 

This form of building means that a ship doesn't have artificial limitations. You COULD build a black ops  carrier, that can cloak effieciently, given it has to trade some other things, like weaponry for example. Having "two types of cloaks" is a fantasy trope, similar to WoW's rogues going into stealth mode and a mage going into invisibility - one can be permanent, the other is heavily situational.

 

Having "two cloaks" is irrelevant. If the devs add multiple systems of detection. I said it before many times. The devs have a way to implement a ship's mass in the form of it affecting a gravitometric detection system, while its heat emission - tied to how many modules run - affects LADAR detection, with a ship's shape being tied to Radar detection, with scanning and warping, to be tied to magnetometry - aka, you feel the "ping" of a scan on you, or feel the ripples of someone entering warp.

 

So, a ship that is tiny, with a slim frame and a cloak, is guaranteed to remain hidden Its drawbacks? It's a small ship - a scout. Scouts != combat oriented. They are meant to tag, bookmark and observe within an enemy's system.

 

However, the aforementioned Black Ops Carrier, is only invisible to Ladar. People won't be able to pinpoint you, but good old gravity will give you away regardless as a general region in space. And as a caveat, sicne cloaking works BOTH ways - they can't see you, you can't see them - combined with the fact that light can't "touch" the ship to illuminate it, but also heat is trapped WITHIN the ship's invisibility field, a ship dropping out of cloak gets a HEAVY bonus on heat emissions, essentially, making any enemy remotely looking your way see you sticking out like a firework.

 

That's kind of heavily tied to the ship's building and the whole MMO part of the game. A Black Ops Carrier requires scouts to lead it to an opportune position. The scout can cloak in and out easily to find the opportune site for a Carrier to warp to, as it's its job to do so as a scouting ship. The Carrier warps too close to a battlestation and it's picked up by the station's magnetometers? Oops, as they say, shit happens.

 

 

IMO, having mechanics in the game that give birth to certain "stealth" aspects, is far more interesting than just having arbitrary rules like in EVE for things to not be possible. That would create a level of fleet doctrines unimaginable. One side may be heavily reliant on Radar, with a possible "Netoworking Module", essentially making them scour in front of them for any and all ships, while another fleet may be heavily reliant on gravitometers,  following the same Networking Module principle. The Radar Fleet can elect to hide in an asteroid belt, thus confusing the gravitometric readings, while the Graviometer fleet can simply hide behind a moon or a planet, to avoid being picekd up by Radars. That's actually STEALTH, using the enviroment to your advantage.

 

As for the obvious question : " what if my fleet is heavily using modules on our ships and our heat signature is off the charts?" My answer would be, hide behind a star.

 

The issue should not be "cloaking devices" per se, it should be ways of detection and ways of hiding. Covert Cloaking simply covers - AND SHOULD JUST COVER IN MY OPINION - Ladar & Radar detection. It's not a magical field that makes your ship hide its mass ( like it does in EVE, herp derp, cloaky titan = impossible to detect ), nor it should just "eat up CPU", but also have to force you reduce your ship's mass by making away with thicker / stronger armor, in favor of lighter armor platings - or even none at all, you're a scout yo.

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I haven't read the entire thread, I plan to do so in a bit... but in a bit of a jam at the moment!

 

I personally think that, in order to equipped a stealth drive of some kind... you should be forced to put less powerful guns on in addition to not being able to fire them when the stealth is activated.  Or weaker engines... or weaker shields, whatever.  That the stealth device would take up extra energy even when not in use.

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I haven't read the entire thread, I plan to do so in a bit... but in a bit of a jam at the moment!

 

I personally think that, in order to equipped a stealth drive of some kind... you should be forced to put less powerful guns on in addition to not being able to fire them when the stealth is activated.  Or weaker engines... or weaker shields, whatever.  That the stealth device would take up extra energy even when not in use.

This, is why I put on the comment right above yours the explanation of what ampage and wattage are - mana regen and mana pool respectively.

 

Connecting any device onto a system, that is wattage hungry - watts being Energy Per Second - takes away from the system's capacitor - capacitors being batteries that compensate for hiccups in energy consumption, thus, a hungry module like Cloak, does come with a penalty in capacitor recharge rates. What happens when a capacitor dries? You are left without energy and the ship goes dark. Quite the engineering trick to make a ship that is balanced.

 

All these things can be coded into the game. There's no need for a shileld module to have arbitrary restrictions. It should have niches to it that requires certain building mentalities going into making any form of ship. It's a sandbox MMO. If a person manages to make a batleship that can cloak, that battleship should suffer from having to fit less wattage hungry guns which makes them less powerful for a battleship to use when fighting another battleship, but makes said battleship a cloaked murder machine when fighting smaller, more agile targets - which incidentally, makes it a battlecruiser, not a battleship, but hey, semantics.

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