SoulCinder Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I'm curious if this has been discussed before and what the responses are? To use a recent example I was involved in... ArcheAge is considered a highly Pay2Win style game because you can sell game time with real money for in-game resources (gold). With that gold you can turn around and buy most everything you need. A player who spends 1000's of dollars will be instantly better off and have a massive advantage when compared to a player who spends only $50 or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamamushi Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Supply and demand. The more dacs being sold on the market the cheaper they will become. Also the skill system being time based prevents someone from immediately jumping into a battleship and just flying off by buying and selling dacs. Eve used to be a good example of how an in game subscription item could beasily implemented in a non p2w way, however now that you can buy skill points in Eve that's all out the window. Let us hope they never sell skill points in DU, or it will certainly become p2w. Ghoster, Kurock, Ben Fargo and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethys Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Supply and demand. The more dacs being sold on the market the cheaper they will become. Also the skill system being time based prevents someone from immediately jumping into a battleship and just flying off by buying and selling dacs. Eve used to be a good example of how an in game subscription item could beasily implemented in a non p2w way, however now that you can buy skill points in Eve that's all out the window. Let us hope they never sell skill points in DU, or it will certainly become p2w. What he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATMLVE Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 It's only pay to win if you get something in-game for it. DACs don't do anything in the game, they only let you play; a player with 1 DAC is no better or worse off than a player with 1000 DACs, except that the latter can sell them in game and get some quick resources, though I believe that's what you're mainly referring to. It still takes time to be able to use these resources effectively. Money can't buy everything, so even if youre rich and buy a ship right away as soon as you start playing, and some kid slaved away for 15 hours to make his ship and train himself to be better at combat, that poor (financially) kid could probably own you. I guess basically, the thing about dual universe is that the most valuable objects will be skills, which are only achievable from play time. What he saidThis post is both superfluous and unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnemus Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 It should be noted that in games that do not have some mechanic such as DACs, gold/credit farmers still appear. They still create a market for someone to pay money to acquire in game goods. The existence of DAC act to reduce the profitability of those schemes and to some extent control p2w mechanics. The perfect solution would be for no one ever to pay money to acquire in game goods, since we must accept that there will be players willing to do so the question is how to mitigate the fallout from such actions. DAC, or their equivalent, do not increase such behavior only moderate it and allow the game developers to benefit from that system instead of independent gold farmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I copied the video on the point this guy talks about if EVE's PLEX is P2W. It covers everything.https://youtu.be/ui7ZTlfNngc?t=1601 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethys Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 It's only pay to win if you get something in-game for it. DACs don't do anything in the game, they only let you play; a player with 1 DAC is no better or worse off than a player with 1000 DACs, except that the latter can sell them in game and get some quick resources, though I believe that's what you're mainly referring to. It still takes time to be able to use these resources effectively. Money can't buy everything, so even if youre rich and buy a ship right away as soon as you start playing, and some kid slaved away for 15 hours to make his ship and train himself to be better at combat, that poor (financially) kid could probably own you. I guess basically, the thing about dual universe is that the most valuable objects will be skills, which are only achievable from play time. This post is both superfluous and unnecessary. You said exactly the same as yama, and your post is not superfluous and unnecessary? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATMLVE Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 You said exactly the same as yama, and your post is not superfluous and unnecessary?¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I added something he did not, along with wording his post in a completely different way, and clarifying the basic point to make it more clear. In any case, my reference to your post a slight joke, as saying that something is both superfluous and unnecessary is both of those things in its own right as the inclusion of the second word defines itself. In addition to a joke, it was also something less friendly than that as your post contributed absolutely nothing to anything except your own post count, something you are notorious for. Lethys, Atmosph3rik and Ghoster 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethys Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I added something he did not, along with wording his post in a completely different way, and clarifying the basic point to make it more clear. In any case, my reference to your post a slight joke, as saying that something is both superfluous and unnecessary is both of those things in its own right as the inclusion of the second word defines itself. In addition to a joke, it was also something less friendly than that as your post contributed absolutely nothing to anything except your own post count, something you are notorious for. Yeah, you're right. It's totally not possible that I just agree with yama and instead of writing the same again, I just stated that I too see it as he does. Honestly I don't know what your problem is, but please do tell me.....not. I really don't care about some random dudes feelings about me ATMLVE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurock Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 For more interesting reading visit the devblog on why NQ chose to do it this way: https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2016/04/08/monetization-player-happiness-and-economic-viability/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volkier Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I agree with everything, but damn it all I will argue my point! Vehemently! And I will not give up until I win that argument!! Sorry, I just couldn't resist participating in the thread hijack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archonious Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 If we won't have DAC, what prevent Pay-2-Win? Black Markets always exist =) Even if game would be Free-2-Play. One way to remove Pay-2-Win completely (I would say almost) is to remove trade. But this is one of main parts of the game. So it is impossible to create fully clear no Pay-2-Win world in game. Question is "How balanced would be this Pay-2-Win"? I see and believe everything will be fine, since everything require time (train game skills, train personal skills, build, deliver and other), it is not EVE or something else, where you buy ready product and already know how to use it (possible in DU in late game, when you make pre-orders to build special ship you want, but this cost extra money, storage cost extra money and other). Truth is that you can't separate real world from game world. That what I want to say. Thanks, Archonious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurosawa Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 If people are willing to dump 100-1000s of coins in the the game, more power to them. Even if they have better stuff them my, they will also help support the game and there for help me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BioShockLIVE Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 If people are willing to dump 100-1000s of coins in the the game, more power to them. Even if they have better stuff them my, they will also help support the game and there for help me I agree, if someone want's to throw money at this game to keep it running and the devs here like before EvE Online sold out and became a pay-to-win society with 1 day old toons maxed out. All it does it bring life into the game and the ability for people who can't afford the sub to be able to play for free and buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethys Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I agree, if someone want's to throw money at this game to keep it running and the devs here like before EvE Online sold out and became a pay-to-win society with 1 day old toons maxed out. All it does it bring life into the game and the ability for people who can't afford the sub to be able to play for free and buy it. The problem with Eve isn't that PLEX (=DAC) per se are pay to win - it's those drugs called "skill injector". That item makes it pay to win because you render the most important variable in the P2W equation useless: training time. As long as there were only PLEX (=DAC) it's fine because you can buy as many as you want and perhaps sell them at an incredible price ingame, but you can't progress faster than anyone else because of skill training times. There's no use in selling DACs immediatly because 1) you don't get loads of money, because there is none 2) even IF you got billions of credits for it somehow you still couldn't fly a huge ship albeit you would be able to build it. 3) there are plenty of problems market wise with this decision I won't cover here Lord_Void 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Void Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 The problem with Eve isn't that PLEX (=DAC) per se are pay to win - it's those drugs called "skill injector". That item makes it pay to win because you render the most important variable in the P2W equation useless: training time. As long as there were only PLEX (=DAC) it's fine because you can buy as many as you want and perhaps sell them at an incredible price ingame, but you can't progress faster than anyone else because of skill training times. There's no use in selling DACs immediatly because 1) you don't get loads of money, because there is none 2) even IF you got billions of credits for it somehow you still couldn't fly a huge ship albeit you would be able to build it. 3) there are plenty of problems market wise with this decision I won't cover here Very true. I remember that one guy bragging that he had almost 70 accounts (200 or so characters) farming skill injectors that other people just inject like drugs. It did make the game feel a lot more pay-to-win. Lethys 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Thing people don't understand, is that the game is not going to be about having Leg0nd4ry gear You won't be having :" Edgelord's Majestic Laser Cannon of Endless Gosuism +100". The game's PvP is not working with the logic of "better gear => mad crits ".Same goes for EVE. A player can elect to dump 100 Euro in the game as PLEX ( EVE's DAC). You can buy a Strategic Cruiser - a very powerful type of ship - but if you are a nooblord that thinks "PLEX = Pay-2-Win" and you go up against someone who has an Energy Leeching ship, you will die and your 1.5 Billion ship fitting (almost 1 PLEX's worth of in-game money) is gone, because you don't know how to play the game and you should be flying a Vexor, not a Tengu.People in EVE who buy a lot of PLEX, are people who have a very niche type of combat, that uses many rare and expensive modules and are too darn lazy to actually bother with farming or doing jobs to get the money for their niche.And people who usually buy PLEX in-game in EVE, are people who redeem PLEX for cosmetic shop credits.However, as Lethys pointed, the real problem with EVE, are Skill Injectors, quite literally, cocaine in digital form. Seriously though, people who burn many hours of their day in DU, will get to buy three of four DACs a week - just so they got spare left.I personally see DAC as the thing it is, a way for the Devs to control the goldseller market, while also creating incentive for the people who play the game a lot to play for free and I still believe in that, if you suck at figuring out how to fly a ship and how to wage transversal sppeds and being at rest with your target, you can buy 1000000000000 DACs and it will still not make you magically win against a person that actually knows how to align their ship properly and set it on a correct orientation and trajectory,It's just that the combat system is not that Korean / Blizzard type of "Huge Number Critical Strike Festival" that most of you are used to. It's about planning how to get in and how to get out if things go sideways. It's not about "herp derp, I faceroll and win ,because I buy 1000 DAC". Its combat system just doesn't work like that. Ghoster and Pang_Dread 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now