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MinerMax555

Reseting/Downgrading Skills when dying

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Idea:

 

When you die, for whatever reason, your ingame skilltree gets reseted or downgraded (setting you back to the previous stage in each category as an example)

 

Concept behind:

 

If you die, you respawn with a ressurection node, but this thing only has a blueprint of you, it doesn't know what was going on in your brain. You learn the skills over time while Aphelia, the AI, is manipulating your brain. If you die, the ressurection node loads a old version of your body and brain

 

Pro:

-You would fear the death

-you would play safer

-it would be more realistic

-you would accept going in jail rather than commiting suicide, justice systems would make much more sense

-pirates would not attack big stations just to "see if it works" (if you ever played space engineers you know what i mean)

-Experienced players would be much more valuable

-taking hostages would mean something

-There would be less "Shoot on sight"-activity

-bounties woud make much more sense

-most organisations would try to avoid war

-taking out a good pilot can change the battle because after respawning he would not be able to drive the ship anymore or less effective

-war strategies would change from making most damge possible to avoid killing civilists

 

Contra:

-It could get really frustrating

-it would be kind of unfair

 

 

Let me know what you guys think about this!

 

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The "technology" behind resurrection nodes is that when you die, the universe switches the position of your dead body with a the position of your living body which happens to be in a completely identical universe, except that your body is in a resurrection node. The losing skills might still make sense with that, but I think the fairness of that would depend on how long it takes to get those skills in the first place. Perhaps just losing experience would be more appropriate, or losing a level in just one category of your skill tree. I think losing a level in all categories is a bit harsh; it might make things frustrating for people new to the game, who are both not powerful and not experienced, as they may be more prone to death. And if you look deep into video games in general, nobody likes to lose progress they worked hard to get. It turns them off towards playing to get it back.

 

I do very much agree that there should be a penalty for death, beyond just losing what you have in your inventory, which means nothing to someone who wants to go on a suicide trolling run as they'll simply leave everything valuable behind. But I'll leave that up to the developers to decide, as they are currently the only ones who know how everything works.

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About the penalty, i think i can accept the "Downgrade" thing.

The "Reset" penalty is a big no no since there is no a player that can't die at least once no matter how good he/she is.

 

I think you will never see your character progression if you loose everything when die. :(

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I was all in at first for skill loss when you die but thinking of it again with eve in my mind it just doesn't work out well. The only progression you make in DU is skilltime since there is no level. Taking that away from players is just the easy way out to prevent players fRom doing something stupid.

 

A complete reset is just the worst option and completely useless. I will break your idea with just one single statement: I will make alts and just troll people by killing them. They lose everything and the alt nothing. Just an utterly bad idea

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A full reset is exagerated, you're right with this. Maybe something like a percentage chance of loosing some  learned skills and reseting progress on the currently learning one? The problem with many online games is that many features don't work right because death doesn't have consequences. For example, on my old Minecraft server everybody comitted suicide if they were hungry because it was easier than actually search food.

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A full reset is exagerated, you're right with this. Maybe something like a percentage chance of loosing some learned skills and reseting progress on the currently learning one? The problem with many online games is that many features don't work right because death doesn't have consequences. For example, on my old Minecraft server everybody comitted suicide if they were hungry because it was easier than actually search food.

Even that is bad gameplay.

 

Combine the death with more power needed from that res-node and eventually killing it, with some death penalties that increase the more often you die or some similar method.

Losing skillpoints will drive people to safe gameplay and avoiding others for the most part because they could die and lose skills. I wouldn't care much for that, but 90% of players don't want to risk anything as precious as skillpoints

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No, it would just reduce a lot the pvp activity for no reason, and consequently the economy, player activity, and so on, ruining the game.

Partial or full loot only works when the stuff you lose isn't worth more than a few hours of playing, and skills are probably going to require a lot more time to train. 

If you lose your cargo and your ship, it's enough of a punishment, there's no need to lose skills.

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Contra:

-It could get really frustrating

-it would be kind of unfair

 

 

Those are some very powerful cons, and why I think this should not be a part of death mechanics.

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Idea:

 

When you die, for whatever reason, your ingame skilltree gets reseted or downgraded (setting you back to the previous stage in each category as an example)

 

Concept behind:

 

If you die, you respawn with a ressurection node, but this thing only has a blueprint of you, it doesn't know what was going on in your brain. You learn the skills over time while Aphelia, the AI, is manipulating your brain. If you die, the ressurection node loads a old version of your body and brain

 

Pro:

-You would fear the death

-you would play safer

-it would be more realistic

-you would accept going in jail rather than commiting suicide, justice systems would make much more sense

-pirates would not attack big stations just to "see if it works" (if you ever played space engineers you know what i mean)

-Experienced players would be much more valuable

-taking hostages would mean something

-There would be less "Shoot on sight"-activity

-bounties woud make much more sense

-most organisations would try to avoid war

-taking out a good pilot can change the battle because after respawning he would not be able to drive the ship anymore or less effective

-war strategies would change from making most damge possible to avoid killing civilists

 

Contra:

-It could get really frustrating

-it would be kind of unfair

 

 

Let me know what you guys think about this!

I think death should lower only one of your skills not all. But changes in appereance would be cool (but that doesn't makes sense lorewise).

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Idea:

 

When you die, for whatever reason, your ingame skilltree gets reseted or downgraded (setting you back to the previous stage in each category as an example)

 

Concept behind:

 

If you die, you respawn with a ressurection node, but this thing only has a blueprint of you, it doesn't know what was going on in your brain. You learn the skills over time while Aphelia, the AI, is manipulating your brain. If you die, the ressurection node loads a old version of your body and brain

 

Pro:

-You would fear the death

-you would play safer

-it would be more realistic

-you would accept going in jail rather than commiting suicide, justice systems would make much more sense

-pirates would not attack big stations just to "see if it works" (if you ever played space engineers you know what i mean)

-Experienced players would be much more valuable

-taking hostages would mean something

-There would be less "Shoot on sight"-activity

-bounties woud make much more sense

-most organisations would try to avoid war

-taking out a good pilot can change the battle because after respawning he would not be able to drive the ship anymore or less effective

-war strategies would change from making most damge possible to avoid killing civilists

 

Contra:

-It could get really frustrating

-it would be kind of unfair

 

 

Let me know what you guys think about this!

... what do you mean by "it would be more realistic". Have you died IRL and respawned with amnesia?

 

 

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... what do you mean by "it would be more realistic". Have you died IRL and respawned with amnesia?

 

 

We have enough 'Realism' already. The word has turned into 'Cinematic' when used to describe video games. We do not play a game to watch a movie. We do not try to escape reality to get more of reality (there are other places where it could work). What is important is good gameplay. Taking away skills permanently is not something many people will appreciate (what happens when someone spawn camps you again and again? You lose ALL progress).

 

As I have said before:

 

I believe there is a thread about some other ideas on how to give player death actual meaning (This one focusing on temporary debuffs). Here: https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/10334-trauma-mechanics-and-emergent-gameplay-consequences/

 

Temporary debuffs take away the Zerg Rush approach whilst not forcing you to retrain skills. It also gives most of the positives and none of the negatives of what OP has proposed (people wasting ships to 'see if it works' will always happen). And in lore terms, consider it quantum travel sickness (the process of respawning is that a respawn node switches you with a identical, but dead, version of you via quantum teleportation).

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I like idea, if it would be balanced enough. Also depend how easy it would be to kill. Imagine what the hell would be around safe zoneon first planet, since everyone respawn there. Not even reasonable game PvP, but hundreeds of trolls with free-30day-accounts.

 

Question of balance I would say.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

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Imagine what the hell would be around safe zoneon first planet, since everyone respawn there. Not even reasonable game PvP, but hundreeds of trolls with free-30day-accounts.

 

All the more incentive I need to move away from the arkship the first chance I get.

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I liked the idea back in Star Wars Galaxies:

 

When a character clones, their health and action statistics are reduced by 75% for a period of 10 minutes. There are three ways of healing the cloning sickness:

 

- Waiting it out

 

- Watching or listening to an entertainer (in a cantina, hotel, tavern, theater or any player structure).

 

- Visiting the surgical droid in most major Cloning Facilities that will remove the cloning sickness for a fee. This fee amount increases with the level of your character (for a CL 90 character the fee is 5000 credits).

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Problem with this, nobody will PvP, EVER.

Ground assault forces = not even a thing.

I made a suggestion similar to the SWG cloning sickness that could be an alternative to SkillPoints loos on my suggestion thread about Trauma Mechanics , weigh in if you like the idea or not. The spin is that by people having a stacking penalty on their stats, they train skillpoints slower, with the buff lasting longer the more ties a person dies within a certain timeframe, meaning that some players - like RPrs - can specialisse in being medical professions i nthe game and make money by healing the Trauma on a player.

 

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Problem with this, nobody will PvP, EVER.

 

This would be the biggest problem but it would also help with the:

 

 

-you would accept going in jail rather than commiting suicide, justice systems would make much more sense

-pirates would not attack big stations just to "see if it works" (if you ever played space engineers you know what i mean)

-taking hostages would mean something

-bounties would make much more sense

 

 

This could be an interesting idea but it does cause more problems than what the contra says. It could hinder progression of smaller solo players and smaller organizations and would also render some of the gameplay a bit unused. People would be a bit more careful when fighting and I think that one of the craziest and most popular aspects that will appear are going to be this interstellar wars like Eve. Without these wars, the game is going to be groups of people surviving on a large server instead of playing a MMO strategy game. 

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This would be the biggest problem but it would also help with the:

 

 

-you would accept going in jail rather than commiting suicide, justice systems would make much more sense

-pirates would not attack big stations just to "see if it works" (if you ever played space engineers you know what i mean)

-taking hostages would mean something

-bounties would make much more sense

 

 

This could be an interesting idea but it does cause more problems than what the contra says. It could hinder progression of smaller solo players and smaller organizations and would also render some of the gameplay a bit unused. People would be a bit more careful when fighting and I think that one of the craziest and most popular aspects that will appear are going to be this interstellar wars like Eve. Without these wars, the game is going to be groups of people surviving on a large server instead of playing a MMO strategy game. 

Thing is, pirates won't attack a big station PERIOD, since big station = big guns = big targeting arrays = pirates dead before they can even get within range.

 

Also, the fact that everyone and their mother can simply dock on a ship in a station and start fighting the pirates, also helps. :P

 

However, the loss of a ship + the gear a person wears + the teleportation back to Cthulu-knows-where is already a penalty for dying.

 

 

You can check my Trauma Mechanics thread I made, see if you agree with the model. It's a temporary hinderance system similar to cloning sickness from Star Wars Galaxies.

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However, the loss of a ship + the gear a person wears + the teleportation back to Cthulu-knows-where is already a penalty for dying.

 

That should be a harsh enough penalty for dying. And you never know, pirates could band together and take out a big ship. Big Army of Pirates = Lots of Weapons = Mass Destruction = Lots of Fighting = Winning Pirates = Mucho Booty

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Thing is, pirates won't attack a big station PERIOD, since big station = big guns = big targeting arrays = pirates dead before they can even get within range.

 

Also, the fact that everyone and their mother can simply dock on a ship in a station and start fighting the pirates, also helps. :P

 

However, the loss of a ship + the gear a person wears + the teleportation back to Cthulu-knows-where is already a penalty for dying.

 

 

You can check my Trauma Mechanics thread I made, see if you agree with the model. It's a temporary hinderance system similar to cloning sickness from Star Wars Galaxies.

 

It depends what you mean by pirates. If you just mean small bands of raiders, then yeah they probably won't attack big stations. But if the pirates organize or group up, or even just all attack at the same time, they could be more than a match for a big station and its fleet. Since the pirates would take the time to do proper recon they would have the advantage of being prepared and the element of surprise. Drop a couple of capitals and a support fleet and they could knock through the station's defenses before the defenders have time to react. The problem (or advantage) with ships being persistent in the world is that people can destroy them before their pilots even get in them. An attack fleet will probably first target the defender's ships and blow them up before they could even undock.

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It depends what you mean by pirates. If you just mean small bands of raiders, then yeah they probably won't attack big stations. But if the pirates organize or group up, or even just all attack at the same time, they could be more than a match for a big station and its fleet. Since the pirates would take the time to do proper recon they would have the advantage of being prepared and the element of surprise. Drop a couple of capitals and a support fleet and they could knock through the station's defenses before the defenders have time to react. The problem (or advantage) with ships being persistent in the world is that people can destroy them before their pilots even get in them. An attack fleet will probably first target the defender's ships and blow them up before they could even undock.

A fleet of two cruisers and a bunch of star-fighters won't be anything of importance agaisnt a Station with enough defenses for its size But n organised and logistically supported fleet would not have an issue demolishing a station - and they shouldn't have. 

 

I do not consider a fleet of 5 Battleships, 3 Battlecruisers and enough escort ships a "pirate armada". To me, pirates fly smaller ships, or fly in a single ship.

 

And yeah, attacking a station makes you a raider, not a pirate per se. Pirates are in open seas - or space in our case. I mean, raiders could pull ito ff, but we all know people who can organise large numbers don't usually go for raiding, but they instead make money by dominating the market :P .

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I do not consider a fleet of 5 Battleships, 3 Battlecruisers and enough escort ships a "pirate armada". To me, pirates fly smaller ships, or fly in a single ship.

 

And yeah, attacking a station makes you a raider, not a pirate per se. Pirates are in open seas - or space in our case. I mean, raiders could pull ito ff, but we all know people who can organise large numbers don't usually go for raiding, but they instead make money by dominating the market :P .

It does come down to this "what you consider pirates" thing. Normally when you say pirates you do think of the 1 or 2 small ships looking to take out other small ships for lots of small rewards (or big ones if they attack a transport ship).

 

I think Lord_Void does have a point though to where a bunch of individual pirates could team up to take out a very large ship and/or s station. I mean, pirates normally have a single yet very beefy ship that is decked out to the brim. Imagine a bunch of those attacking at once, could do some major damage.

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Idea:

 

When you die, for whatever reason, your ingame skilltree gets reseted or downgraded (setting you back to the previous stage in each category as an example)

 

Concept behind:

 

If you die, you respawn with a ressurection node, but this thing only has a blueprint of you, it doesn't know what was going on in your brain. You learn the skills over time while Aphelia, the AI, is manipulating your brain. If you die, the ressurection node loads a old version of your body and brain

 

Pro:

-You would fear the death

-you would play safer

-it would be more realistic

-you would accept going in jail rather than commiting suicide, justice systems would make much more sense

-pirates would not attack big stations just to "see if it works" (if you ever played space engineers you know what i mean)

-Experienced players would be much more valuable

-taking hostages would mean something

-There would be less "Shoot on sight"-activity

-bounties woud make much more sense

-most organisations would try to avoid war

-taking out a good pilot can change the battle because after respawning he would not be able to drive the ship anymore or less effective

-war strategies would change from making most damge possible to avoid killing civilists

 

Contra:

-It could get really frustrating

-it would be kind of unfair

 

 

Let me know what you guys think about this!

I think losing your skills is a bad idea simply because it would not be fun. But maybe some other less extreme penalty. Like a time period where all your skills are lower this would stop people from just respawning and hoping right back into the battle. Also it could be explained by cross dimensional travel makes you a little out of it. I really do not think this will work well in a fun sense though.

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I think losing your skills is a bad idea simply because it would not be fun. But maybe some other less extreme penalty. Like a time period where all your skills are lower this would stop people from just respawning and hoping right back into the battle. Also it could be explained by cross dimensional travel makes you a little out of it. I really do not think this will work well in a fun sense though.

There just so happens to be a thread on that, that has also been mentioned on this thread twice now! https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/10334-trauma-mechanics-and-emergent-gameplay-consequences/

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