Democratic Factions

[mrjacobean]

Are there any factions (political orgs) that use direct democracy to get their leaders, or is it just all dictatorships or small oligarchies?

[Kuritho]

Most factions are mostly, "Fuck you I'm in charge".

No democracy.

[Cybrex]

I go through a very delicate process of pitting my alts against one another to see who the victor is. It can be difficult, but it gets the job done. 

 

I think there are some groups who do that sort of stuff. All of the roles for BOO were filled by members voted in directly by those in BOO (except for mine). I believe some groups in CSYN also do a similar approach.

[mrjacobean]

I go through a very delicate process of pitting my alts against one another to see who the victor is. It can be difficult, but it gets the job done. 

 

I think there are some groups who do that sort of stuff. All of the roles for BOO were filled by members voted in directly by those in BOO (except for mine). I believe some groups in CSYN also do a similar approach.

I guess with the current organisation setup in DU (and in other MMORPGs as well), democracies are hard to setup without someone staying in their position (like the founder). I guess the founding player could act like the crown does in the UK, with government acting on behalf of the crown (therefore, with the crown's authority), but not acting themselves unless absolutely necessary.

[Wilks Checkov]

There are a few Democratic organizations out there - but not many. The ACS is one of them - and while I am not entirely sure - I think the syndicate is as well. Please correct me if I am wrong. 

[Astrophil]

There are a few Democratic organizations out there - but not many. The ACS is one of them - and while I am not entirely sure - I think the syndicate is as well. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The Cinderfall Syndicate is a hybrid democracy, not a full democracy. Leaders are not directly voted in by members, as they need to be carefully interviewed for their qualities and weaknesses; however, our Syndicate policies are proposed and voted on by Senators in the Senate.

[DaSchiz]

Yin Yang Federation is a democracy .... only thing is when the vote came up I was the only one in it so ....

 

looks like me for another 4 years

[Warden]

Most factions are mostly, "Fuck you I'm in charge".

No democracy.

 

Just because most leaders are set in place in many organizations or picked by specific people (founders?), it doesn't necessarily exclude member participation and expression of thoughts and whatnot.

 

In short, textbook definitions of 'Democracy' may not exactly apply but can get damn close in many organizations due to hybrid systems and whatnot.

 

I'd also consider the type of organization. A government or nation-like organization can have different needs and requirements than a Corporation, for example, and a loose group of people could in turn have different layouts and needs, too.

 

Besides in some cases I imagine it to be tricky. There's always some responsibility and influence stuck with the founders - after all someone has to acquire all the assets and pay for them or set a course for a time. Even if there is no money involved, there's management rights involved in terms of websites and whatnot. You can't exactly replace that with someone else easily, at least I don't think you can. I also think that these financial and management responsibilities should in fact stay with or rather close to any founders.

 

With founders, you have the highest chance of continuation of those tasks aka paying the bills. You hand it over to someone else who once joined? Could work somehow, probably just too tricky depending on what you have to pay, but once they leave for whatever reason you have to change again. They could, due to sabotage or anger, also just throw it all out the window. Not like similar things didn't happen already.

 

At least that's how I see it. I'll aim for a hybrid-system so far where some tasks or responsibilities (but not all, nor those of all core branches) remain with the founder(s). Why? Simple. I don't think anyone else will want to pay the bills per month. Even if others donate you still have to manage those and get them booked from your account. As for specific org politics, those deemed capable and interested can try. And if people are collectively not happy with it (them), then changes will be made.

 

In short, I think even in different systems that don't exactly apply textbook definitions of democracy, player participation is a vital factor. If they are severely neglected or ignored you will not achieve long-term happiness and loose players. Due to that I think any actual hard "Fuck you, I'm in charge"-approach will eventually lead to loss of organization stability unless the people within don't mind it - or somehow 'roleplay' it.

[Lethys]

In a game as this there is no better way than a oligarchy or monarchy. Someone has to be in charge and has to have the last word. Democracy is good and all on a lower basis of the org but the leader should always be a kind of dictator who has the last word on everything. True democracies won't function in a game

[Anaximander]

In a game as this there is no better way than a oligarchy or monarchy. Someone has to be in charge and has to have the last word. Democracy is good and all on a lower basis of the org but the leader should always be a kind of dictator who has the last word on everything. True democracies won't function in a game

Unless it's a for-profit corporation, that requires an investors' board ( because stock = profit ) , I can't see a democracy wroking either in the sense of a nation / faction. It's either Empire or Corporation in my view.

[Astrophil]

Unless it's a for-profit corporation, that requires an investors' board ( because stock = profit ) , I can't see a democracy wroking either in the sense of a nation / faction. It's either Empire or Corporation in my view.

 

Twerk's got the right idea.

[Wilks Checkov]

Deleted

[Fitorion]

The most efficient form of government is a benevolent dictatorship.  And it works very well for small organizations and short time scales.  It ceases to work once the benevolence of the leader wains and their ability to enforce their will fades.

 

With small groups which are mobile... if anything isn't to anyone's liking... they can just leave.  Enough people leave and form a new org and the old org will die... a sorta vote with your feet system.

 

I don't know that there are any systems specifically designed to support more direct voting... but with the contract system... and hundreds of creative ways to ask people who they want... I don't see anything that prevents various democratic structures.

[Violet]

For democracy to work you need a healthily civil society with buy in from citizens and open discussions of ideas.

 

I think it will happen after a few months or a year of play time but trying to run an org as a democracy on day one would be a disaster with it boiling down to a popularity contests with the loosing factions quiting and going and doing there own thing.

 

Unlike real life there is no way to be truely authoritarian as people can always leave and go back to the arkship, what will bind people together is a sense of a "shared investment" in the things they have built as an org and that will take time.

[Anaximander]

For democracy to work you need a healthily civil society with buy in from citizens and open discussions of ideas.

 

I think it will happen after a few months or a year of play time but trying to run an org as a democracy on day one would be a disaster with it boiling down to a popularity contests with the loosing factions quiting and going and doing there own thing.

 

Unlike real life there is no way to be truely authoritarian as people can always leave and go back to the arkship, what will bind people together is a sense of a "shared investment" in the things they have built as an org and that will take time.

Until a stronger faction comes in and beats those democratic organisations into submission and forces them under their will. Cause,you know, nobody wants to see their small town vanishing under a hailstorm of rocks from space :|

 

So yeah, there is a way to be authoritarian. You tell people "you better contribute to our alliance now we beat you into submission, you can keep your lands, but if you start acting funny or you don't pay taxes, or you hire smugglers to avoid taxation, we'll be playing tapping rocks on your pretty buildings".

 

I know it sounds harsh, but it's what's going to happen. It's what causes dictators to rise, in fact, a dictator is elected to lead in times of emergencies. :|

 

But the good news are, emergent resistance gameplay. Hurray... :|

[Violet]

Sounds fun!

 

Sure I suspect smaller orgs will get steam rollered under the oppression of another organisation

 

My point in my post is there is no way to make players work for you in the mines and the factories by force like north korea or something. You can't stop people leaving like you can in real life. This necessarily means organisations have to follow either a consensus view or have a strong leadership who is good to the members.

The whole political/social aspect of this game is as exciting as the building and fighting.

[Anaximander]

Sounds fun!

 

Sure I suspect smaller orgs will get steam rollered under the oppression of another organisation

 

My point in my post is there is no way to make players work for you in the mines and the factories by force like north korea or something. You can't stop people leaving like you can in real life. This necessarily means organisations have to follow either a consensus view or have a strong leadership who is good to the members.

 

The whole political/social aspect of this game is as exciting as the building and fighting.

Well, while you can't make them mine for you, you can sure as heck tax them tho :| You force them to relinquish 51% of their org (or more, who knows) and then you are the person that has the majority vote - if they are a democratic faction. After that, you can tax them accordingly. You won't force them into mining like IRL dictators do, nor anything stops said players from leaving the org and migrating to an area with less taxation - aside from their stuff they can't haul away, since their lands are under occupation.

 

It's - as I said - what will make things like smugglers a reality. Trading without taxation = any faction's worst nightmare. It's what wil lbring down both democracies and dictatorships

 

Capitalism & Free markets <3

 

[Thokan]

The reason why despotic leaders are the norm for player groups in MMOs is firstly because the groups are smaller and it is generally easier to just run it despotically. Secondly, it takes effort to maintain a democracy. Within a run of the mill player group with one person in charge it takes one person to make a decision. For a democracy a majority of the player group must care enough to put in an effort to even have a viewpoint on matters.

 

Most people play games to escape responsibilities, some will bother to pay attention to the game's guild versus guild meta game; very few will bother to care about guild meta.

 

That being said, my heart ticks for democratic player groups. I do hope some cool meta structures appears for some organizations.