Alpha / Beta Monthly Subscription?

[CodeGlitch0]

A question for NovaQuark.... With the alpha/beta access to Dual Universe, will there be a monthly subscription requirement during this time? Or will it be free until release for those with access?  Most people will probably assume it will be free (and I hope it will be also), but as a professional web/cloud developer I also know the costs of such an endeavor.

 

According to the Kickstarter, as of today, there are 1400 or so people that will have access to the game alpha with an additional 1500 in the beta.  This will require significant server investment from that point.  I am assuming the server layout will likely be organized in cluster similar to Azure Service fabric, with region nodes distributed to partitions which are distributed across various servers in the cluster.  Plus a gateway layer for connection negotiation, and a backplane to organize much of the cluster synchronization and backend storage and other microservices.  This will probably be in the ballpark of 10 fairly decent servers (physical or virtual) to handle the networking traffic and all the back end services. If I had to estimate, I'd peg this around $4000-$6000 USD per month for the initial unscaled server cluster in a typical cloud provider.

 

Will NQ just eat this cost for the 2+ years it will be in Alpha/Beta, or will we be expected to pay a monthly fee (or use our DACs) during this time as well as after release?

 

 

EDIT: An answer!

 

Look in the 1st update of the kickstarter :

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1949863330/dual-universe-civilization-building-sci-fi-mmorpg/posts/1675018

 

[Hotwingz]

Alpha and beta is free.

No monthly sub.

You payed for acces with the gold pledge and above.

 

After release we pay a sub.

NQ has private investors that will invest the rest of the money if the KS is succesful.

[Archonious]

As it was stated above, alpha and beta are fully free. This is official information. Not sure is it in open source or not, but it was said to already known alpha testers.

 

About amount of testers. This is overall amount, not online at the same time. Of course, it will require resources for running servers, but it is not something critical (I guess).

Also, majority will leave alpha anyway. Some will be disappointed because game is not ready, some will be bored, some will get bad experience after own expectations. Won't be surprised, if alpha testers amount would be ~50 members after few months of running. Similar to beta, but not so big drop. IMO

 

Thanks,

Archonious

[CodeGlitch0]

Yeah. Do you have an official source on it?

 

I've only seen it describe as "Alpha Access to the game," which can be very ambiguous.  My goal is to get an official answer.  I'm backing at the gold level, so I want to to know with 100% certainty what will be happening.  Not just conjecture.

[Danger]

Yep, alpha and beta is going to be free and I don't have to be oracle to know this :-)

 

For the costs, 4.000-6.000 USD could be easily covered by community. But I think that as Archonious explained, there will only rarely be 50+ alpha testers online at single moment after few weeks/months of testing. Anyway, if they add payment options to their site, I'm willing to support them with extra 50-100 USD every month. Few more like this and server costs should be more than just covered.

[Archonious]

Yeah. Do you have an official source on it?

 

I've only seen it describe as "Alpha Access to the game," which can be very ambiguous. My goal is to get an official answer. I'm backing at the gold level, so I want to to know with 100% certainty what will be happening. Not just conjecture.

If I'm not wrong, it was stated in alpha testers conversation, as one of the answers. Maybe there is open answer in KS, I didn't check everything there.

But as I said, it is not opinion, this is official information from NQ.

 

P.S: checked our CAT conversation, there is nothing there... so information must be opened. Also, check thread about Alpha team. I'm sure I saw this info on website.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

[CodeGlitch0]

If I'm not wrong, it was stated in alpha testers conversation, as one of the answers. Maybe there is open answer in KS, I didn't check everything there.

But as I said, it is not opinion, this is official information from NQ.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

 

Ok, I'll look into that and post a link if I find it.

[CodeGlitch0]

Yeah, it desn't look to exist on that Alpha Team Members thread.  So, I'd still like a public acknowledgement/answer from NQ directly.

[Pang_Dread]

Yeah like others said you buy a package and that gives you access to Alpha or Beta.  The live game is when you'll be paying a sub. Don't even think need a source for that, its pretty much standard and common knowledge at this point.

 

and yeah the servers and infrastructure they use during testing likely won't be a "full version" of what they will at live hence lower costs that will have already been covered by the KS money.

[Schoff]

Agreed with Pang. DAC's are meant to be used for subscription time for the official game. Not alpha/beta testing versions of the game.

[Violet]

I think it would be pretty shitty thing to do if they did.

 

What is most likely is that at least during the alpha, there will be pre-arranged play sessions where they invite people to play rather than running the servers 24/7.

 

The way I understand the infrastructure works for DU, they can add more more less servers as needed if you combine that with something likes ec2s bidding on spot instance pricing you can get it for cheap as long as you don't mind interruptions by whales

[CodeGlitch0]

I'm not prone to blindly drink Kool-aid offered by people I don't know personally. I am simply asking for an official (read: from NovaQuark) statement on whether or not alpha/beta will indeed be subscription-free or not.  That is not an unreasonable expectation, considering they are asking (and I have pledged) 100 Euro for said alpha access to the game. Just because the alpha/beta standard in other games is free does not mean it is the same for DU, which will have *significant* server-side cost overhead compared to most games.

 

Please forgive me if blind chants of "It is known. It is known." by community fans isn't enough for me, I mean no offense.

 

$150k of $500k from kickstarter blown on always-on servers over two years only leaves a healthy $7,000 annual salary for each of the 25 employees, not including any of the other expenses. Yes, the point of the kickstarter is to generate klout for loans/investments from other sources.  But even 2.5 million additional funding only barely covers a modest salary (if they average at 57k) for each of the current NQ team. Again, that doesn't even cover other expenses, such as office leasing.

 

Without an additional source of revenue, the business model doesn't hold up very well over the course of 2+ years of additional development. That might get them to launch, but not if there are delays as there always are in development.  Even developers have to feed their families. 

 

I would be ok with a partial monthly fee during alpha/beta, but only if they are up front about it.  Again, this is not an unreasonable request from someone pledging financial support.

[The_War_Doctor]

 

I'm not prone to blindly drink Kool-aid offered by people I don't know personally. I am simply asking for an official (read: from NovaQuark) statement on whether or not alpha/beta will indeed be subscription-free or not.  That is not an unreasonable expectation, considering they are asking (and I have pledged) 100 Euro for said alpha access to the game. Just because the alpha/beta standard in other games is free does not mean it is the same for DU, which will have *significant* server-side cost overhead compared to most games.

 

Please forgive me if blind chants of "It is known. It is known." by community fans isn't enough for me, I mean no offense.

 

$150k of $500k from kickstarter blown on always-on servers over two years only leaves a healthy $7,000 annual salary for each of the 25 employees, not including any of the other expenses. Yes, the point of the kickstarter is to generate klout for loans/investments from other sources.  But even 2.5 million additional funding only barely covers a modest salary (if they average at 57k) for each of the current NQ team. Again, that doesn't even cover other expenses, such as office leasing.

 

Without an additional source of revenue, the business model doesn't hold up very well over the course of 2+ years of additional development. That might get them to launch, but not if there are delays as there always are in development.  Even developers have to feed their families. 

 

I would be ok with a partial monthly fee during alpha/beta, but only if they are up front about it.  Again, this is not an unreasonable request from someone pledging financial support.

 

I have read it some place that they said they arent going to be charging subs for alpha and beta, but i cant seem to find it atm. 

 

You also seem to missing the point of a KS campaign. it isnt meant to fund the entire game but show to investors that there is enough interest in this concept that it is profitable (as thats what investors are intrested in, turning a profit). that being said NQ already has a few investors that have been paying the bills up until this point but now they want to make sure its going to pay off before they put more money down.  I understand your desire for an answer but you are coming off a bit hostile. Be patient and im sure someone will come up with a quote or Nyzaltar will get back with you.

[LurkNautili]

I totally understand his frustration, personally. I'm noticing a tendency on this forum of people answering questions they don't actually know the answers to.

 

That said, I'm currently pledged under the assumption that these peoples' claim is correct (it is the done thing, and as such a reasonable interpretation), and I'm feeling more secure in that assumption than e.g. technical feasibility and some other concerns, which I'm hoping to see resolved before the campaign ends, as I'm still kind of on the fence about backing this project.

 

But until we actually hear from devs, I'm not taking any assumption for granted.

[CodeGlitch0]

I have read it some place that they said they arent going to be charging subs for alpha and beta, but i cant seem to find it atm. 

 

You also seem to missing the point of a KS campaign. it isnt meant to fund the entire game but show to investors that there is enough interest in this concept that it is profitable (as thats what investors are intrested in, turning a profit). that being said NQ already has a few investors that have been paying the bills up until this point but now they want to make sure its going to pay off before they put more money down.  I understand your desire for an answer but you are coming off a bit hostile. Be patient and im sure someone will come up with a quote or Nyzaltar will get back with you.

 

Skepticism does not equal hostility. Requests for transparency, disambiguation, and clarity also do not equal hostility.

 

Like I stated in my last post, I get that the point of the KS is to generate additional funding.  But we have no idea what the end goal is.  I was merely explaining how $3M over the next 2 years is probably an absolute bare minimum required funding amount.

 

I am being patient for an NQ response. I am merely responding to other responses, which may or may not be correct, in the meantime..

 

 

I totally understand his frustration, personally. I'm noticing a tendency on this forum of people answering questions they don't actually know the answers to.

 

That said, I'm currently pledged under the assumption that these peoples' claim is correct (it is the done thing, and as such a reasonable interpretation), and I'm feeling more secure in that assumption than e.g. technical feasibility and some other concerns, which I'm hoping to see resolved before the campaign ends, as I'm still kind of on the fence about backing this project.

 

But until we actually hear from devs, I'm not taking any assumption for granted.

 

Thank you. I appreciate someone else with a healthy skepticism.  I have also noticed such... enthusiasm. I believe it is largely due to the precedent that being active on the forums may lead to free alpha access. That is why I always take the word of non-NQ community members with a grain of salt.

 

I also am pledged under the assumption that the claims alpha/beta will be free are correct, for now.  But I'd really like to know with absolute certainty BEFORE they take my hard earned, non-refundable money.

[kulkija]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1949863330/dual-universe-civilization-building-sci-fi-mmorpg/posts/1675018

"Alpha/Beta access: no subscription involved."

 

-k-

[Hotwingz]

Alpha and beta is free.

No monthly sub.

You payed for acces with the gold pledge and above.

 

After release we pay a sub.

NQ has private investors that will invest the rest of the money if the KS is succesful.

This is your answer.

Including the answer to the server cost question. Everything you have asked has been answered several times.

 

If you dont want to believe us, fine.

Contact NQ-Nyzaltar or contact NQ on the KS page.

 

But honestly if you ask the community a question you should be able to accept the answer or look for it yourself. Its on the forum and the KS page.

[Shynras]

Alpha and beta are free, they said that multiple times, and you can probably find proof on Kickstarter comments and twitter. 

[CodeGlitch0]

But honestly if you ask the community a question you should be able to accept the answer or look for it yourself. Its on the forum and the KS page.

 

The fact of the matter is that no one has answered my actual question yet.  I'm looking for a source. Proof. A concrete communication from NQ.  Everyone is saying "it is known," but no one has provided a link to the source yet.  I have been looking and cannot find it.  No one else seems to be able yet either. I am only being told "oh, I read it somewhere, I'm sure of it."  The only logical conclusion I can make thus far is that it hasn't been communicated, but is only hearsay.  Hearsay doesn't hold up in court, and it doesn't for me either.

 

All I'd like is a reference to a public communication from NQ, stating it directly.

[Hotwingz]

The fact of the matter is that no one has answered my actual question yet. I'm looking for a source. Proof. A concrete communication from NQ. Everyone is saying "it is known," but no one has provided a link to the source yet. I have been looking and cannot find it. No one else seems to be able yet either. I am only being told "oh, I read it somewhere, I'm sure of it." The only logical conclusion I can make thus far is that it hasn't been communicated, but is only hearsay. Hearsay doesn't hold up in court, and it doesn't for me either.

 

All I'd like is a reference to a public communication from NQ, stating it directly.

Last time I am answering.

I gave you all the answers you wanted.

I also explained YOU can contact NQ if you dont trust us.

 

We are not obligated to wade through all the posts looking for that one answer.

Thats on YOU to do if you dont trust us.

[Pang_Dread]

Last time I am answering.

I gave you all the answers you wanted.

I also explained YOU can contact NQ if you dont trust us.

 

We are not obligated to wade through all the posts looking for that one answer.

Thats on YOU to do if you dont trust us.

+1

 

It is known.

[Hotwingz]

@Op because I want to show you that we are right. I contacted NQ in your place.

[Shynras]

The fact of the matter is that no one has answered my actual question yet.  I'm looking for a source. Proof. A concrete communication from NQ.  Everyone is saying "it is known," but no one has provided a link to the source yet.  I have been looking and cannot find it.  No one else seems to be able yet either. I am only being told "oh, I read it somewhere, I'm sure of it."  The only logical conclusion I can make thus far is that it hasn't been communicated, but is only hearsay.  Hearsay doesn't hold up in court, and it doesn't for me either.

 

All I'd like is a reference to a public communication from NQ, stating it directly.

 Find it on your own on kickstarter or twitter, as I already said. My time is precious too.

[DaSchiz]

 

 

All I'd like is a reference to a public communication from NQ, stating it directly.

 

It is stated in the definition of the words "access key" which is listed on every single package on kickstarter where that item applies. I don't know what else you want.

[Hotwingz]

It is stated in the definition of the words "access key" which is listed on every single package on kickstarter where that item applies. I don't know what else you want.

No worries I did the work for the OP contacting NQ. Will paste the answer as soon as I get it.