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Do you play EVE Online?

Do you play EVE Online  

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  1. 1. Do you play EVE Online?



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On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 1:11 PM, JohnnyTazer said:

It seems like there are a lot of people talking about Eve who have never actually played the game. Or for any meaningful time outside of highsec.  I'm a 10 year eve current player. I 5 box in PvP, use caps, all that stuff.  I don't want to multi-box in DU. Its a breath of fresh air.  The reason DU is attractive to me is it seems like it has/wants to have the SOUL that eve has. Thats what a lot of you are missing.  Sure mechanics different.  But the soul of the game is similar, thats why its getting all the comparisons.  We will have a single shard universe, everyone is on the same server. There is talk of safe zones, but after that more open world style play. JC has said the word "emergant gameplay" and that has been used to describe eve for decades.  Player driven content, player driven market.  Those are the things that interest us, but in a unique 3d world where we are an avatar not a pod or ship in game.  Plus a sub model and a plex model.  These are the reasons I have backed this game, and these are the reasons this game will succeed in my opinion.

You don't need to abstract to the quality of atmosphere/experience a player has (though that can be the most revealing description tbh). DU:

 

1. Voxel Editing

2. Player-Driven Gameplay (actions + decisions + open context)

 

The former I would guess will be a larger population of interested players who's interest is Creativity, Instant manipulation-stimulus feedback, cooperation, social cooperation, consumer-driven behaviour eg end-user to other's created content while doing a bit of their own. The latter are more like what you're describing in EVE. A smaller proportional population likely but much much more motivated and competitive and driven and long-term mastery of the more abstract systems.

 

So this is already a huge difference to EVE. How can NQ provide for the former atst as balance with the latter?

 

It's obvious: Safe Zones either pre-installed or else player groups can create these if they're large enough then advertise these areas for players to come to live in safety thus creating the demand while the Eve-like players provide the supply.

 

In effect we want to be like farmers, nurturing the Population 1 types. Meanwhile the rest of space is sounding more like the other side of nature, ferocious: red in tooth and claw.

 

Thus the balance is kept.

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DU does not and will not have the safety net EVE has. There is no indestructible NPC stations and no Asset Safety for player built/controlled stations/bases. Outside of the initial Safe Zone(s) nothing is free of risk or 'safe'. And it should stay that way.

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I quit playing Eve years ago. I personally and just my own opinion on what I personally look for in an mmo found it more often then not dull. Nothing against the game. It is a legend in it's own right in it's genre. I just didn't find it to be as immersive to me as I did when playing Star Wars Galaxies. There are not many games if any at all in my eyes that can even hold a candle to that game. Especially the Pre-CU era as in my opinion that version of the game is still unmatched even by today's standards. I found the time grind in Eve very unrealistic and not very engaging at all so it was when I found myself logging in Eve to set a timer on skills and then logging out to actually go play another game that was more fun that was my telltale sign it was time for me to call it quits. The only time I actually remotely had any fun playing Eve was when I participated in those large scale space battles. Aside from that it just didn't grab me.

 

Now if your a person who likes top down games like the Starfleet Command series or Star Trek Online then I do highly recommend Eve if that is your thing. If your looking for a full meal deal package like what Star Wars Galaxies provided then I have yet to see a game do that successfully. That's not to say that there are not alot of great games out there though. I've played many and enjoy them all. None of them are the full meal deal package though.

 

DU makes me think of games like Empryion , Entropia Universe and the The Repopulation in the way it looks, but closer to Space Engineers in the way that it plays from the videos I have seen. Not the most engaging style of game play I have ever seen to be entirely honest about my opinion on the matter. While the concept of a single shard or server basically is great in theory I can see the potential for a lot if not a buffet of problems down the road once it is placed in actual practice.

 

My predictions are if they stick to the open world anyone can effect anything method of game play will be at first everyone will enjoy it. Then there will be issues with grieffers  at some point. There will be people who do not want to engage in the pvp element of the game. I am almost positive they will get flooded with reports and complaints of various things happening to them with in the game. I am sure there will be some refund issues going on as well too. I am also fairly sure some changes will at some point be made to accommodate that which in turn will take away from the original free element of it being an open world anyone can effect anything type of game. I am willing to even go so far as to bet they will even consider if not actually set up a separate server or shard as they want to call it for pve and one for pvp so you can choose what to play on thinking that will solve and fix all their problems. So the single shard server aspect I can actually see flying straight out the window at some point in time and it being a double shard basically. lol I am sure that will be rationalized as each server is it's own shard so in a sense from a technical stand point of view it is still a single shard server. lol That's just a few examples of some of the problems I can see them having in the foreseeable future.

 

The concept of DU is a great one in theory as I have said, but in actual practice I am not so sure it will go down so well for them. At least in Eve Online one of the reasons it worked out so much better for them was there are ways to avoid pvp for those who only want to play the pve portion of the game. That was the thing I liked about Star Wars Galaxies as well. In that aspect I felt SWG definitely had a perfect balance to it's Universe. There was a clear line drawn in the sand and you could walk on either side of the fence in the world with out having it effect your game play. That's one of the reasons why it had the status and respect that it did. A side from the fact that it is still the best space mmo ever made to this day. Anyway that just my own personal opinion on the matter. Hopefully it will all work out for the best. :)

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2 hours ago, KOOLLAYDTAC said:

I quit playing Eve years ago. I personally and just my own opinion on what I personally look for in an mmo found it more often then not dull. Nothing against the game. It is a legend in it's own right in it's genre. I just didn't find it to be as immersive to me as I did when playing Star Wars Galaxies. There are not many games if any at all in my eyes that can even hold a candle to that game. Especially the Pre-CU era as in my opinion that version of the game is still unmatched even by today's standards. I found the time grind in Eve very unrealistic and not very engaging at all so it was when I found myself logging in Eve to set a timer on skills and then logging out to actually go play another game that was more fun that was my telltale sign it was time for me to call it quits. The only time I actually remotely had any fun playing Eve was when I participated in those large scale space battles. Aside from that it just didn't grab me.

 

Now if your a person who likes top down games like the Starfleet Command series or Star Trek Online then I do highly recommend Eve if that is your thing. If your looking for a full meal deal package like what Star Wars Galaxies provided then I have yet to see a game do that successfully. That's not to say that there are not alot of great games out there though. I've played many and enjoy them all. None of them are the full meal deal package though.

 

DU makes me think of games like Empryion , Entropia Universe and the The Repopulation in the way it looks, but closer to Space Engineers in the way that it plays from the videos I have seen. Not the most engaging style of game play I have ever seen to be entirely honest about my opinion on the matter. While the concept of a single shard or server basically is great in theory I can see the potential for a lot if not a buffet of problems down the road once it is placed in actual practice.

 

My predictions are if they stick to the open world anyone can effect anything method of game play will be at first everyone will enjoy it. Then there will be issues with grieffers  at some point. There will be people who do not want to engage in the pvp element of the game. I am almost positive they will get flooded with reports and complaints of various things happening to them with in the game. I am sure there will be some refund issues going on as well too. I am also fairly sure some changes will at some point be made to accommodate that which in turn will take away from the original free element of it being an open world anyone can effect anything type of game. I am willing to even go so far as to bet they will even consider if not actually set up a separate server or shard as they want to call it for pve and one for pvp so you can choose what to play on thinking that will solve and fix all their problems. So the single shard server aspect I can actually see flying straight out the window at some point in time and it being a double shard basically. lol I am sure that will be rationalized as each server is it's own shard so in a sense from a technical stand point of view it is still a single shard server. lol That's just a few examples of some of the problems I can see them having in the foreseeable future.

 

The concept of DU is a great one in theory as I have said, but in actual practice I am not so sure it will go down so well for them. At least in Eve Online one of the reasons it worked out so much better for them was there are ways to avoid pvp for those who only want to play the pve portion of the game. That was the thing I liked about Star Wars Galaxies as well. In that aspect I felt SWG definitely had a perfect balance to it's Universe. There was a clear line drawn in the sand and you could walk on either side of the fence in the world with out having it effect your game play. That's one of the reasons why it had the status and respect that it did. A side from the fact that it is still the best space mmo ever made to this day. Anyway that just my own personal opinion on the matter. Hopefully it will all work out for the best. :)

I get what you are saying. But EvE is only ever safe in an NPC station. So you can be ganked at anytime, so there really isnt a PVE free area that you talk about.  You can sit in a station and build, and run the market without getting ganked, but lots of people still call that pvp cause the market is player run and your fighting against 0.01 isk people non stop in jita.  If you ever try to move out of station besides jump cloning once every 24 hours, you are at risk.  I do fear some of the things you are talking about though, the carebears are people that ruin a good game.  If you don't want to be at risk, please play a different game. DU is not for you, just as eve isn't. And guess what. THAT IS OK.   This game has been stated by the devs that it will be all about emergant gameplay, orgs battling for non-re spawning resources, and rebuilding civilization.  I'm all for there being some safe zones for people to get a foot.  But after that, its open world PVP.  What people fail to understand, especially in a harsh game like eve, is that you are NOT your ship, or your items.  They are tools to have fun, to craft an experience.  People in EvE literally take a hit to the ego if their ship goes boom, when thats the wrong mentality to have.  Everytime I undock a ship I've already written it off as "gone".  That mentality has kept me playing and pvping in eve for 10 years, and brought me a lot of fun.  But I do agree with this quote on SWG was a very fun game, and it was the first MMO I played.  But this game will be doomed if they abandon their stated vision, and give in to the carebears.  That I know for sure.

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14 hours ago, blazemonger said:

DU does not and will not have the safety net EVE has. There is no indestructible NPC stations and no Asset Safety for player built/controlled stations/bases. Outside of the initial Safe Zone(s) nothing is free of risk or 'safe'. And it should stay that way.

Yes, but there's all the difference in the world between "should" and "could".

 

That's how it should be. But when players are hearing about DU, in MMO sites, there's a huge amount of negative attraction aka repulsion word of mouth from PvP especially if you make something that takes "hours" and players can destroy it too easily, like a Tsunami rolling into town.

 

Not only the "reports" of what is DU? That the journalists invariably write; laced with hype-excitement-disappointment 'spice mix' to gee readers up into giddy heights of reaction, but also there will be players who end up playing and wanting to do "landmark" things only and invite RP'ers and other such "sharing & caring" types to the party so they can frolick to their heart's content without fear of being bullied by hyper-aggressive types. These people want the sandbox, the pure creation in a world with a community of ready-made amenities to soak-up. Take photos and the like.

 

And I suspect the voxel gameplay is very very interactive and engaging and rewarding all by itself. It is possible that this plus mmo persistence and multiplayer is possibly very fun and popular within the above conditions.

 

NQ have talked about finding "tokens" in the past, and creating more new safe zones. It suggests to me that if there's  a large number of players who want this then this could happen.

 

Outside of safe zones as you say but more and bigger safe zones seem likely if numbers are positive.

 

It's a bit like with how some MMOs come out with Sub and say no Pw2. Then they introduce a cash shop. Just cosmetics. Then they add time exclusives or time buffs then full on p2W, just buy this stupid space whale for 12,000$.

 

In the end, I don't see the safe zones as a problem if they attract a lot more players willing to pay an honest sub and avoid the bs above with respect to salami-slicing the game into monetary units or bits of bytes or seconds or virtual object price tag sales-room/hotline. Ugh. I would like the game world to be player behaviour not another commercial commodity speculation and pricing retail virtual wallmart.

 

Most of the gigantic space in DU will be outside these zones still, even if there's more or larger of them.

 

The other angle here is of course that DU is impressive with respect to such a huge game that potentially DOES SUCCEED at offering gameplay to some very very different types of people or types of game that incompatible people usually seek in different games as opposed to one shared game (the single shard). That's one thing that is not incompatible with a lot of what is said by EVE players here. They co-exist. I know there's a always a desire to see one's preferred vision of the game and a political fight ensues to support that cause. But the bigger the population to feed with supply the more ferocious the EVE-like gameplay will end up being I would guess?

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12 hours ago, KOOLLAYDTAC said:

[-snip-]

 

My predictions are if they stick to the open world anyone can effect anything method of game play will be at first everyone will enjoy it. Then there will be issues with grieffers  at some point. There will be people who do not want to engage in the pvp element of the game. I am almost positive they will get flooded with reports and complaints of various things happening to them with in the game. I am sure there will be some refund issues going on as well too. I am also fairly sure some changes will at some point be made to accommodate that which in turn will take away from the original free element of it being an open world anyone can effect anything type of game. I am willing to even go so far as to bet they will even consider if not actually set up a separate server or shard as they want to call it for pve and one for pvp so you can choose what to play on thinking that will solve and fix all their problems. So the single shard server aspect I can actually see flying straight out the window at some point in time and it being a double shard basically. lol I am sure that will be rationalized as each server is it's own shard so in a sense from a technical stand point of view it is still a single shard server. lol That's just a few examples of some of the problems I can see them having in the foreseeable future.

 

The concept of DU is a great one in theory as I have said, but in actual practice I am not so sure it will go down so well for them. At least in Eve Online one of the reasons it worked out so much better for them was there are ways to avoid pvp for those who only want to play the pve portion of the game. That was the thing I liked about Star Wars Galaxies as well. In that aspect I felt SWG definitely had a perfect balance to it's Universe. There was a clear line drawn in the sand and you could walk on either side of the fence in the world with out having it effect your game play. That's one of the reasons why it had the status and respect that it did. A side from the fact that it is still the best space mmo ever made to this day. Anyway that just my own personal opinion on the matter. Hopefully it will all work out for the best. :)

I think you make a lot of interesting points above. But with respect to so-called "pve and pvp", remember a couple of things:-

 

1. DU Single Shard is F king E normous. There's MORE than enough space for both Safe Zones (what I'd prefer to refer to as Dense Civilization Hot Spots), namely: Highly developed and time-invested and then creating content for players to interact with as end-users eg even ambience of a sci-fi cityscape (blade runner with neon Kanji, Kana, Hiragana, Katakana etc) or some sort of Egyptian Star Gate-like theme or whatever. Amenities might be various screens and markets, faux retail stores, parks and urban planning, racing courses, you could even have an army village training compound for ad hoc avatar shooting battles and so on... each world is enormous. People might well enjoy cruising around.

2. The so-called PvE is not Mob AI Combat, but Voxel Editing. In turn the materials needed for this need to be supplied. Thus you have a big link to the types of players who enjoy domination, logistics, economics and the like fuelling and feeding each other. Eg even "safe passage ferrying avatars" between safe zones while the player is off-line and can log back in in 8hrs or something in a new place if they book passage etc... As to PvP it seems to me that structures will merely be functional: Why create a city that is destroyed easily? It's a waste of materials and time. An underground Dr. No complex is more defensible or a large fleet and some space stations creating a network of control across space and deployment to control material supplies.

 

With respect to hex claims, it seems that the option for settlers/wildcats/rimworld types can have that middle option - just striking out taking their chances too.

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25 minutes ago, Borb_1 said:

That's how it should be. But when players are hearing about DU, in MMO sites, there's a huge amount of negative attraction aka repulsion word of mouth from PvP especially if you make something that takes "hours" and players can destroy it too easily, like a Tsunami rolling into town.

 

Some wild assumptions here, first of, if you have a source of any such discussion it would be interesting. Second, I'm not sure how an actual MMO player would be 'repulsed' by PVP as it is a core element of MMO style games in general along with several others. Then we have no idea yet of what combat will be like so anything anyone writes or says is speculation and not based on facts.

 

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Its so crazy. If you don't want to pvp, dont play a PVP game. Its that simple. Don't come into a game and say "no fair they destroyed my ship!" 

 

Ofc, there should be balance.  But the game is super super dull if you just build, then build more, then more building, then 4 years down the road you are still building, weeeeeeeee.  I understand niche markets, and also trying to appeal to more people, but there is a reason EvE has players that last years on end.  Its cause of the relationships, and the sometimes meaningful battles that took place.  I couldn't tell you how 1 single pubg match went down that Ive played, but I could tell you about a wormhole battle I had in eve in 2012. Because it MEANT something. 

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4 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

Some wild assumptions here, first of, if you have a source of any such discussion it would be interesting. Second, I'm not sure how an actual MMO player would be 'repulsed' by PVP as it is a core element of MMO style games in general along with several others. Then we have no idea yet of what combat will be like so anything anyone writes or says is speculation and not based on facts.

 

No direct links off hand. But I've seen these types of discussion innumerable times in all their tedium for over a decade. Many people who first tried UO back in the day were repulsed when they stepped out and were shot by archers using arrow-slits in the building to create a killing-ground for newbies (lol).

 

Personally I've always viewed PvP as as critical integration necessary in MMOs, but as I said above, there needs to be balance. Often Open World PvP creates too powerful an agency that is then used to imbalance the game design and thus destroy the game's potential growth. But often because there's little incentive for other gameplay because other gameplay is comparatively dull. Fortunately the voxel stuff is looking quite fun and appealing. Remember people WILL be possessive of their creations and the time and effort invested with little interest in being bested in combat, a tense feeling of the oxygen being strangled out of them if they're aversive to confrontation, in the first place, let alone seeing their puppy butchered in front of their eyes...

 

Personally, it does not bother me: I simply relish the emergent interaction, the harsh mistakes that make the game feel more "real and alive" and therefore worth pursuing further. In a way I see it more as: Civilization Space and Warfront Space connected economically and politically. It does not have to include 100% combat connection. It is important to get that message out to potential players that they can CHOOSE their gameplay but still directly or indirectly add to the interactions of the single shard game world and even choose differently later on or chop and change even.

 

I think you're right with respect to Combat Frequency being a key factor and how expensive in time and materials and labour to win back losses, we don't know such parameters that will influence the intensity and frequency on player groups. Perhaps the huge game world and costs will create an emergent balance without need for "hard rules"? Perhaps.

1 hour ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Its so crazy. If you don't want to pvp, dont play a PVP game. Its that simple. Don't come into a game and say "no fair they destroyed my ship!" 

 

Ofc, there should be balance.  But the game is super super dull if you just build, then build more, then more building, then 4 years down the road you are still building, weeeeeeeee.  I understand niche markets, and also trying to appeal to more people, but there is a reason EvE has players that last years on end.  Its cause of the relationships, and the sometimes meaningful battles that took place.  I couldn't tell you how 1 single pubg match went down that Ive played, but I could tell you about a wormhole battle I had in eve in 2012. Because it MEANT something. 

I'll be interested in the PvP almost exclusively. Not interested in building or economy. I enjoy the combat danger TEAM gameplay but combined with the rationale for combat, the attempt to change the balance of power geo-spatial strategic et al.

 

Hence the players that do want to build and need those materials and then enjoy swanning around "megalopolis 1", a big strong base of such players is a very good result for hitting "base 1".

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32 minutes ago, Borb_1 said:

No direct links off hand. But I've seen these types of discussion innumerable times in all their tedium for over a decade. Many people who first tried UO back in the day were repulsed when they stepped out and were shot by archers using arrow-slits in the building to create a killing-ground for newbies (lol).

 

While some here would say that this behaviour is fine and new players should just prepare and defend themselves as this is just PVP, to me this is part of the problem in that griefing and senseless detrimental gameplay like this does harm the game in a big way. It does however not represent nor should it be used to argue against actual combat in a PVP setting which this is not.

 

That said though the situation and conditions in UO do not in any way compare to how the world will evolve in DU IMO. For one, the world is much, much bigger and the options to get out of safe zones much more plentiful.

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On 11/9/2018 at 11:07 PM, CoreVamore said:

One aspect I think will be interesting, and partially similar to Eve, is space combat in groups.

 

As we know everyone in Eve is a ship of some sort, and often they travel in packs to camp gates, kill structures, or brawl it out against other group(s).

 

I think this will morph in DU. A group, instead of being several ships, will be in one. This will change the dynamic. Instead of having a fleet leader you will have the ships captain instructing everyone on board what to do. A fleet could just end up being 10 ships, one actual fleet commander and perhaps a hundred crew in total spread out between the ships.

 

Naturally we could end up with massive space battles, with hundreds of players, but may only involve several tens of actual ships.

 

When a ship blows - oh the carnage! Oh the humanity! Oh the looooot! :D

 

So yea, DU wont be like Eve, but, I think thats possibly going to be a good thing ;)

 

 

 

Dont forget counter ships like bombers and fighters but yea this seems to be what DU will be alot more like as more players join the battle more ships are present 

 

On 1/4/2019 at 5:58 AM, Lethys said:

Only when flying solo. Then you need to know what you do and how tracking, hitting, dmg and other mechanics work. 

 

If in a big nullsec war/gang:

Do what fc tells you

Orbit fc or whoever

Target ppl targetcaller calls 

Press f1

Repeat 

 

Most ppl don't engage in a fight they don't know the outcome of (they win). If they do, they escalate

Intresting as this is not how my corp fights in null and seems to be very wastefull on a pilots skill 

 

On 1/28/2019 at 5:11 AM, JohnnyTazer said:

It seems like there are a lot of people talking about Eve who have never actually played the game. Or for any meaningful time outside of highsec.  I'm a 10 year eve current player. I 5 box in PvP, use caps, all that stuff.  I don't want to multi-box in DU. Its a breath of fresh air.  The reason DU is attractive to me is it seems like it has/wants to have the SOUL that eve has. Thats what a lot of you are missing.  Sure mechanics different.  But the soul of the game is similar, thats why its getting all the comparisons.  We will have a single shard universe, everyone is on the same server. There is talk of safe zones, but after that more open world style play. JC has said the word "emergant gameplay" and that has been used to describe eve for decades.  Player driven content, player driven market.  Those are the things that interest us, but in a unique 3d world where we are an avatar not a pod or ship in game.  Plus a sub model and a plex model.  These are the reasons I have backed this game, and these are the reasons this game will succeed in my opinion.

I agree 

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4 hours ago, unown006 said:

Intresting as this is not how my corp fights in null and seems to be very wastefull on a pilots skill 

Not every corp is the same but usually big fights are dictated by shipmetas and f1 monkeys. Noone in a big fights needs to care for trajectories, angular velocity and other stuff, nor needs to know how to break webs/disruptors. Just volley them and forget about it. 

Solo, you need to know all that stuff. 

Ymmv 

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Just now, Lethys said:

Not every corp is the same but usually big fights are dictated by shipmetas and f1 monkeys. Noone in a big fights needs to care for trajectories, angular velocity and other stuff, nor needs to know how to break webs/disruptors. Just volley them and forget about it. 

Solo, you need to know all that stuff. 

Ymmv 

Yea I have seen how most corps like to fight I Find it strange is all ;)

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