Stolas

Player numbers and specifically PvP player numbers are very low, we're in a sub-to-play early access beta stage game.

The whole fight around Gamma Alien Core had around 150 constructs involved. You compare it to fully launched, decade-long running game that doesn't come with the uncertainty of the terrain DU is right now.
Not sure how the lack of players and a lack of unified opposition of the players towards a big adversary like Legion is "bad game design". Lack of marketing engagement to create hype or whatnot to bring in players might be NQ's fault, but it's not a question of game design in that aspect.

Where I do blame NQ here is that they didn't do anything with the Gamma fight. They could have made a video of sorts to promote it, show how PvP actually plays out in their game compared to the false advertising they do with their youtube videos on PvP. Get some info from the parties involved, backed by the data of the server and pull it off documentary style, generating some hype and maybe moving people to involve themselves with it, to at least check it out.

Hello, Noveans!
 
I’m Cyrille Fontaine, Creative Director here at Novaquark. These are exciting times and I wanted to give everyone an overview of our objectives and direction for Dual Universe.
 
 
A game like Dual Universe is a never ending labor of love and ongoing development, but there is a point when you just need to assess if it is ready for a release. After close to two years of testing and numerous major additions to the game, we have decided to prepare the game for launch.
 
Development of Dual Universe continues at full speed, and we’re spending the lion’s share of our focus right now on fixing bugs, stabilizing the game, improving our back-end systems, and overall continuing to polish the game.
 
We’re close to deploying a brand new feature that we expect will be a hub for creators and merchants alike to gather and present themselves to other players. It’ll be open to anyone who wishes to participate and advertise their shop, museum, service, or any other point of interest.
 
We’re also working hard to deliver our promises to our Kickstarter backers that supported us from the beginning. We’re searching for a new shipping partner to deliver the physical rewards as well as delivering the digital rewards through the major game updates of 2022. We’re also implementing an initial web-based version of DACs.
 
  Our team continues to analyze game data and read your feedback to focus our efforts on where we can be most effective, and this means that our plans can change with developments in the game, but looking to the future, I want to share some of what we currently have planned in upcoming content updates for Dual Universe.
 
Flotillas are a new feature we’re developing that will allow players to form temporary groups of constructs. These will help in identifying friend from foe, assuming your foes haven’t already infiltrated your squad. This will improve many different aspects of group play ranging from fleet engagements, running convoys, piracy, and more.
 
Another gameplay feature we’re looking to add is recycling, which would enable players to better manage their inventories by turning parts of broken or unwanted elements back into components.
 
We want to expand PvE with the goal of helping players bring the game-world to life and improving the story in which everyone experiences the game. The mission system is one area of focus for this goal in developing more complex, interconnected, and lore-oriented objectives. 
We’re also developing a power management system. A good way to consider how energy will work is to look at how construct maximum speeds have changed. Players must decide how to specialize each ship, and similarly, must make choices on how best to distribute power across their constructs.
 
We want to increase the quantity of discovered planets and moons as well as new aspects, biomes and gameplay opportunities, and to produce planetoids the size of big asteroids, much like the Thades belt rocks, but claimable as a territory.
 
One of the most resource-intensive features that we have to tackle is planetary warfare. It brings significant change to the game and, before we can achieve it, we have to bring PvP in general to a more mature state. We know that territory warfare is an important game system to many of you, so continue to help us improve PvP by engaging in fights to generate data for us to analyze and continue to improve the system.
 
There are also many other features that we are looking to improve or introduce in the future.
 
 
Now, let’s discuss the topic of a reset.
 
We have seen your many posts across Discord, our forums and social media. We’ve heard your frustration and know that many of you are waiting for a decision about whether or not we will reset. Let me assure you that no matter what we decide, you will not be reset back to square one. Of the different options we’ve been discussing in case of a reset, we are certain that you will keep your core blueprints, including blueprints owned by an organization that you lead. We are also looking into which other important parts of your game progress could be kept if we do reset.
 
Yes, the internal discussion about a possible reset does continue, and it’s no exaggeration to say that this is the most significant decision we currently have to make for Dual Universe. We appreciate our players and your engagement with us, but I also want everyone to know that all of us here at Novaquark are eagerly awaiting the day we can share concrete news with you.
 
That is all for this message. Until next time, thank you for your attention, Noveans!
Please don't hesitate to provide your feedback here.
- Cyrille Fontaine (NQ-Kyrios)

With the Athena update we decided to hold 3-4 alien cores, the goal being to test our ability to defend multiple cores.

The harsh reality of alien cores
In response, our enemies have put our cores in lockdown ~fifteen times, sometimes 4 on the same day, forcing us to organize ourselves well to allow everyone to come home from work, eat, take care of their family or simply rest. For having a minimum number of people at the end of each lockdown, just in case.
The ends of lockdown follow one another and still nothing on radars, the regularity required by this feature prevents us from pirating on asteroids or pipes as we did before, but the various changes have not reinforced either the interest of them, the motivation is therefore less and less perceptible and it becomes a chore to come and defend...
So we come to this evening of May 21, 4 cores are in lockdown;
Gamma, Theta, Iota and Zeta
Theta and Gamma are respectively under siege at 18:24 UTC and 18:56 UTC, knowing that it takes 20 minutes to secure a core without enemies, the timing is tight but nothing can tell at this moment that our enemies will take advantage of it...

A well thought out plan
18:36 UTC, Theta in siege but without contacts, when suddenly the announcement falls: "CONTACT ON THETA"
10 to 15 ships on radars, the fight is easily managed but a large part of our fleet is therefore in combat lock for the next 10 minutes, preventing warp, and an attack on Gamma begins to grow in our heads. Taking advantage of the combat lock to loot some of the enemy ships, meanwhile another group forms, alerted by the first attack and start moving in direction of Gamma.
18:58 UTC, Gamma in siege and the dreaded announcement drops: "24 CONTACTS ON GAMMA"
We are all surprised and at the same time excited, @here and @everyone appears on the various discords to call Legion for mobilization, we've been waiting for this moment for a long time, impossible to miss it!
We get together in voice, we regroup in the same place in game and we jump into the fray. Focus announcements follow one another, but more surprisingly, there are not 24 contacts but 50... 70... 100... (we reached 150 contacts on the radar at one point, allies and enemies). Several ships are dummys, but the enemy is really numerous, we will have to be disciplined and use our experience in PVP but also as a group.
The confrontation was complex, the previous patch broke the radars and transponders, impossible to sort the contacts on the radar and even less those who change their name like ours (our entire fleet bore the name "WONDU" on its ships), but LUA scripts save us and maintain some semblance of order in this nameless mess.
The station sees its shield descend little by little, an alt left on it allows us to follow it live, protecting the core is impossible without killing all our enemies, it must get out of the 10 minutes of combat lock to recharge its shield. It ends up being core, we manage to regain control, the core itself is not enough, we have to hold these 10 minutes. Unfortunately the timer is constantly reset, even after taking advantage of the fight; the dead ships then repaired by our enemies, the incessant comings and goings of small fast ships and those bearing our tag, it's almost mission impossible to prevent them from approaching, the fight drags on so long as we almost destroyed the entire enemy fleet.

The Liberation
"30 seconds left" (combat timer on alien core)
Announced in voicecom, still no hostile contact... When suddenly a M core appear, rushing to the alien core.
"15"
Some of our remaining forces are concentrated on him, the burst is violent but it's not enough.
"10"
He is at 80km from the core, almost dead but he still represents the last threat of these long hours of confrontation.
"OHNO OHNO OHNO HE IS SHOOTING [filtered] MY LIFE"
...
"IT'S REPAIRED"
Nerd screams, phew of relief, Legion held on but not without difficulty.

A big GG to everyone, even if the game is clearly not the most pleasant for PVP currently, it's events like this that make the game live. Bravo for the organization, the execution and the destruction of the core. We had a lot of trouble keeping our precious plasmas

Some stats about those fight
The opposing forces: Legion vs "Empire, BOO, CVA, Penrose, CYT, IC, CRN, MSI, SB Nation, UA and I think another 1 or 2, just a handful from each, think IC had the most, but mostly new to PvP"
+/- 150 ships involved
~40 Legion members at the end
More than 3 hours of fight
45+ wrecks still close to Gamma this morning
Very very little amount of stasis
Too much ammo fired
Too much kills
Not enough transponder xD
 
 

So much noise..
 
In the end, NQ will tweak the number a bit and most of the tears will dry.. This was unavoidable and needed. Sucks for those who took advantage of what is clearly a broken part of the game and I get the frustration, but it needed to be done.

I can only hope NQ has enough of a spine to weather this storm of noise. They'll come out stronger and more prepared for launch on the other side, something quite a few seem to not understand.


But at the same time, they will just make the same mistakes again when it comes to the eventual power management. Communication is their Achilles heel.

Not wanting to use weapons because "it kills innocent people" but promoting suicide to cause damage with a bomb is quite astonishing ...
 
"I am a passiveist but I am ready to commit a suicide bombing to see my ideas through to the end"

Hi Hirnsausen,
 
Thank you for your feedback. However, it won’t be possible to go with your suggestion for the following reasons: 
 
What you suggest can be abused in many ways. Just an example among many others: imagine that non-armed ships are used to transport stolen assets (either from wrecks destroyed in PvP or anything stolen due to a betrayal from an infiltrated spy in an organization). We would remove the ability for justified retaliation, and that’s absolutely not our intention. Players should face the consequences of their actions, for the best and for the worst. It’s part of the Sandbox concept (even if we had to limit it in a reasonable way to give some room for both types of players, PvP and non-PvP).
  PvP must keep some unique incentives. Harvesting the rarest materials is one of those incentives. The concept of “risk versus rewards” has been part of Dual Universe, from the very beginning. Please keep in mind that even the current in-game situation is way softer than the initial vision, where safe zones were only small areas on some planets. Today, there are whole planets as safe zones, giving all the necessary space for those who do not want to be involved in PvP. You don’t need the rarest materials for creativity, and even in the rare cases you need some, you can always rely on the markets for resources that would be normally available in PvP areas. Some more adventurous players ready to risk their ships in PvP will find an interesting trade in the situation.
  You can’t speak of non-consensual PvP in Dual Universe. Non-consensual PvP is when there is no way for a player to avoid being caught in PvP in a game. In Dual Universe, you CAN avoid being caught in PvP by staying in the safe zones and have access to pretty much any gameplay available in-game (except PvP of course). If a player ventures outside of a safe zone, it’s his choice and it means he/she has implicitly accepted the risks tied to this choice.
  As mentioned before, unsafe space has always been part of Dual Universe vision. So you can’t talk about lobbying when it is about something that was there from the very beginning. If there is some lobbying, it’s when some players put the pressure to change something that was already well established at the beginning.
While some ideas may be seen as good on paper, it will generate more problems than it will solve, not to mention that it would radically change Dual Universe’s original vision. The game is already more than reasonably friendly toward those who don’t want to participate in PvP and there is no plan to give access to the whole space in-game without any PvP risk. That was never the deal and will never be. 
 
We (as a team) do, however, acknowledge that the current situation in PvP is unbalanced and that some players may resort to some loopholes or gray areas to win a battle. The Novaquark team goal is to fix those loopholes and find the right balance in the long term. Balancing PvP is a delicate endeavor and can take some time. This is why we are still in Beta and that Beta may still last quite a while.
 
On another topic, please refrain to compare non-consensual PvP to awful real life things like rape and such. Try to picture yourself explaining to someone who has been raped that what he/she has experienced is the same thing as being frustrated by a situation in a video game. You will (hopefully) see how unreasonable the comparison is. If you’re not convinced, do try to discuss with some rape victims. It won’t be a surprise if none will agree with you.
 
Last but not the least: some elementary rules are in effect on the forum.
 
- Wishing harm to other players in real life for ANY reason is NOT ok. 
For that reason, @Hirnsausen you get a warning point.
- Direct insults and personal attacks toward a player is not okay either. 
For that reason, @Lethys you get a warning point as well.
 
We hope you will continue to participate on the forum in a more civilized manner in the future.
In the meantime, this topic will be closed to avoid further aggressive/provocative replies.
 
Best Regards,
Nyzaltar.

 

If this is anything like detroit michigan, 'warlord' would probably be more apt.
 
For all intents and purposes, the world in which humanity exists in is very much PVP orientated. While a smattering of civil safe spaces do exist, those are not inpregnible beyond the application of a given amount of force by anyone determined enough.
 
In the civilian world, civilization is generally upheld by the acceptance of various rules and regulations. Then there's the ~1% of the US population (2.3M, based on 2020 data, I also use US data because we have the highest incarceration rate worldwide) that thinks they are beyond the rules. While a fair amount are locked up for things like drug offenses, simple possession, and other various self-harms or even non-harms respectively, you have your other crowd that puts innocent people in danger.
 
While the rules in place to maintain orderly civilization exist, it is important to note that they can be freely broken, even in areas of high protection and regulation. Indeed, the only hard limits that exist really come down to our technology and imagination. There are no truly safe spaces when it comes to humanity, we are deceptive, cunning, intelligent, and a whole lot of other adjectives.
 
We like to consider our homes relatively safe. They have windows and doors, both with locks on them and surrounded by walls to protect what's inside from what's outside. While various measures can be taken to protect your home without turning it into a fortress, home invasions and burglaries still occur.
 
Exiting the privacy of our own homes the private sector plays host to a variety of security zones from completely undefended to active and visual protection. If you think 'America' and 'pvp', one of the first things that comes to mind which I'm reluctant to discuss, is the multitude of shootings you've probably seen in the news over the years. When the pressures of conformity from society are rejected and non-active security measures are ignored or bypassed altogether, what puts down a bad guy with a gun is usually a good guy with a gun. This can come from either a member of the general public or the civil authority.
 
Speaking of which, while bastions of the civil authorities are generally very well protected, in America recent riots and occupations of such areas in recent months and years by 'hostile' forces have proven these areas not always so secure.
 
Stepping things up a level to military instillations, incidents in 1995 and as recently as 2018 where individuals ended up commandeering armored vehicles without prior authorization and putting the public in danger.
 
Again, we occupy a distinctly PVP world because we are a distinctly PVP orientated species. If we did not spec up in the form of PVP required aspects, then our ancestors would not have survived this world which is filled with animals (PVP), dangerous landscapes (PVE), and a changing and hostile climate (PVE). Why you don't see people killing people everywhere is due to the afore mentioned pressures of civilization. While we have the means to easily take another persons life, we are expected to follow within a set of rules where without such there would be anarchy.
 
The barista that made your coffee, do you think they're out to get you? Did they add a drop of poison to your fancy and expensive frozen whipped cream carmel covered mochahopafropakappahappasuperduperfreakyexpensivelatte? Are they out to engage in PVP with you, or are you just another person of the thousand that they'll meet today, some of whom they'll never meet again? I don't think they tainted your morning joe, what would they have to gain from that, more importantly, what would they have to lose? 
 
This is turning into a rant isn't it?... I could go on and on, but simply put, this is a bad idea. While the idea of perpetual safety is great, it's impossible since it will lead to almost zero economic churn, prices will crash since sales aren't being made, profit isn't being made so supply isn't being generated because its a waste of time and production then becomes a matter of individuals. You building everything you want to build, do everything you want to do, then what?
 
Games only have 'moments' that people remember and keep playing because what-happened-happened whether it was good or bad. It was exciting and unexpected. Maybe one party didn't find that the case and all their time and work went up in smoke, same thing happens IRL too, learn from it and maybe next time take preventive measures too.
 
As a rescuer, I don't find the idea of someone shooting me and making off with my stuff too pleasant. Now I need rescuing, the person I'm rescuing needs to wait longer, our org is both down a ship and supplies, and needs to make another dispatch to pick up the pieces. We don't put guns on our stuff, but we do fly with folks who do. We take steps like flying outside the pipes to reduce the chance for an interception, we remember the names of those who wrong us, and any time we get knocked down, we look what went wrong to see if we can't make it right next time.
 
Ahh, another uno reverse card...

Arm your ship then

That is the dumbest thing in this thread I have read so far. May as well just remove PVP altogether, and then shut the game down fully.
 
If you can't take a bloody nose, stay in the safezone.

Correction, you knew it was a problem for over a year and continued taking advantage with no foresight of the future.
 
If you know exactly what you're doing, then I find it rich that yall are going to complain when NQ finally decides to do something about it.
 
While I would agree that it would be nice to have something in-game that allows us to detect and correct the problem on our own along with destruction of the element upon pilot activation instead of wholesale deletion of the construct, NQ is going to do what NQ is going to do, even if it frustrates us all to high heaven.
 
For people who purchased ships with elements that aren't readily visible, okay you have my actual sympathies on this. If you purchased a ship from someone in the past and you can't make the checks yourself, then I recommend you'd check with the seller to see if your ship falls into spec. If it does, great, no further action. If it doesn't, ask if they creator can exchange your construct for something similar that is in spec, if they do, great, write their name down. If they don't, great, also write their name down then tear that ship down (if you can, I don't know how this drm works since I've never bought a ship from someone else before...) before NQ does.
 
Finally, if you really just don't know what to do and are pulling out your hair in frustration, ask NQ. Find a gm in-game (@GM in the help channel) and ask them if they can determine if your ship runs afoul of the rules, because believe it or not, NQ is likely going to want to help people now ahead of wholesale deletion later. This could result in a public relations issue and I'm sure they don't want that. By interacting with the players this way, NQ can also build a list of popular ships where this issue is present in, then (hopefully, DING-DONG NQ here's a suggestion) release a list of ships to the community with at least a weeks lead time, and the community can pick up the rest.

Why do you say so much and matter so little...?

Game wikis are definitely important imo. Personally when I first start out playing any games I'll often visit the wiki to get information about anything. I still do it till this day, for example in minecraft I'll visit the wiki if I forgot a crafting recipe of an item. Or in an RPG game I'll visit the wiki to find out what monsters spawn in which area and what they drop when I kill them and what I can use the drops for etc. So yeah, would be great if the wiki gets updated. 

While the docking is nice, I am firmly against the Eject players.
 
SInce the dawn of time, stowaways have been a staple of history. If someone is able to infiltrate a ship, they should be able to. 

I believe that the nebula skybox should be replaced with a realistic, dark and starry skybox, akin to the old one prior to Alpha 3. Here are my arguments,
 
The nebula was originally introduced as an immersive way to increase ambient lighting in Dual Universe, making it easier to see at night. This is mentioned in NQ's Dev Diary on YouTube. However, this was nullified in 0.24 with the reduction of ambient light brightness.
 
This is personal preference however I believe many will agree; the ambient light level does not have to match the skybox's brightness. For example, take this image of Pre-Alpha Thades. Its dark side is heavily illuminated, as I'm sure it would look on the surface as well. You'd be able to see. Compared to current Thades, I think most of us can agree that it still looks far better, and it could be taken down a notch if it's too bright. Additionally, with the introduction of the nebula, the atmospheres were changed to the same blue color we're all used to. I'm guessing this was done as a result of a technical limitation relating to the new skybox. So, think; If I'm right about this, we could have a Thades that looks like this, for example:

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Current Thades, for comparison:

 
You see where I'm coming from?
 
The way I see it, removing the nebula would provide so much in the way of fidelity, immersion and polish. It wouldn't affect gameplay either. Furthermore, I believe this change would solve many, many of DU's lighting glitches and "rough spots," at the very least making them look far better, and would provide much more polished lighting, both on ground and on a planetary scale. I simply don't see what the nebula adds other than style, but it sacrifices fidelity in a lot of key areas. Unfortunately I don't have any screenshots to back up that claim, so you're gonna have to take my word for it as an Alpha 1 player who knows how lighting used to interact with the old skybox.
 
The nebula may be beautiful to some, but honestly, changing it would add so much in the way of polish — which I believe is far more important and is what this game needs right now. Not to mention, many people were dismayed at the release of this nebula, and I'm taking a wild guess by saying that most players would like this change. I know my friends and I would.
 
Please consider this, Novaquark.
 
Similar post by Mjrlun

I'm so tired of this discussion.  You all see the state of the game right now, right?  It's because of a lack of decent PvP.  Carebear builders don't want to actually PLAY this game with us.  They just want our adoration  - of their empty, useless buildings.
 
See, I'm not a PvP player.  I am a builder.  And a pretty darn good one (if I say so myself). However, I am NOT satisfied building an empty city no one will ever use, let alone visit. I don't care how many "likes" I get on Twitter for my skills.  That is the ONLY end-goal in a building game without PvP;  Likes, adoration, popularity and logging in every day to see how awesome people think you are.  You don't want an actual game, you just want to showcase your building skills somewhere.  And then you call people like ME toxic because you don't like it when I defend the vision this game is built upon.
 
If you want an economy, politics, civilization, you have to have PvP.  If you want your builds to MEAN something and have purpose, you need PvP. Period.  That is exactly what builders like me came to this game for.  Please, for the love of God, please just go find one of the many building games without PvP in them and go play those.  Quit trying to ruin a game that is already on its last leg.  Many of us builders came here specifically so our builds can have purpose.  I want to see if I can build beautiful buildings that can actually protect my belongings, my org and my city.  I WANT people to attack them to see if my designs are just fluff or if they can stand up to the challenge. 
 
This is why this game is so f'd up right now.  The more NQ listens to people who signed for this game only to try to change the vision, the faster this game will end up in the tank.  Seen it happen.  Every damn time.  No one wants to EVER let builders who LIKE PvP actually have a game where you can build AND have PvP.  I'm so sick of trying to play games with these people who are so afraid of digital bullets running their digital buildings that don't mean anything at all except something to look at.  What a waste of my time to even think that carebear pve players would let us alone and let us have a game built for just us for a change. 
 
Well I'm sure you're going to get your wish because game devs fall for carebear threats of leaving every damn time.  I predict that very soon the only threat to your builds will be the game being shut down due to lack of players.  And when it that happens, please remember that YOU had a hand in its demise.
 

So it's about T4 & T5 resources now?
 
This game has ALWAYS been advertised as an open PvP game.
 
It was supposed to have one small safe zone on Alioth around the markets.
PvErs complained.
 
Then they added a safe moon.
PvErs complained.
 
Then they expanded it to three whole planets and all the space in between.
PvErs complained.
 
Then they added the surrogate thing so you didn't even have to travel in space at all!
PvErs complained.
 
Now you're complaining about not bein able to mine ore that is basically only useful for people who play PvP?
Call me shocked. 
 
No amount of concession or compromise is good enough for players like you.
 
No worries, you'll get your wish. but I estimate 6 months to a year before you lose ALL of your builds in one fell swoop with no option, whatsoever, to rebuild when the game gets shut down for being so damned boring.
 
Mark my words.

About a year ago I fell in love with DU's tech and the promise. Launched my organization (DIA) with the beta. I have grown it to a relevant proportion. I then left the game due to what's basically a lack of content. This devblog series does not rekindle my hopes for the game. Here is what I think about the game's current state and my open letter to NQ and response to the devblogs.
 
Is DU a Tech Demo, a Beta, or a Full Launch?
 
Dear NQ,
 
A fundamental thing about why this game is losing so much momentum is you calling a tech demo a beta, then expecting players to actually play it like a fully launched game.
 
From a game mechanics perspective, Dual Universe is a tech demo. The only sustainably enjoyable and interesting gameplay has been construct building. Most playstyles this game should have been featuring are out of balance, boring, or nonexistent. Player support is a nightmare. The game regularly experiences bugs and exploits most of which affect the universe and enjoyment of all players, not just the ones who interact with the bugs.
 
From the your official perspective, DU is a beta, because you wanted to be able to charge the players for the game, yet make drastic changes to the game without angering the playerbase.
 
But from the player perspective, DU is a fully launched game, because you are letting players accumulate wealth, experiences, organizational structures; and carry it over to the actual launch. Let me explain why this matters so much.
 
Why Would People Play DU?
 
Your failure to recognize the fact that this game isn't a beta for the player showcases a fundamental lack of appreciation on why people play single shard sandbox games. People do not and will not play DU for the immediate experiences of mining, building, industry, ship flying, or PvP.  Your main problem isn't the immediate "gameplay loops" that the players are put into. These are not the primarily outstanding features of DU gameplay. There are much better games out there for each. I could play Star Citizen or Elite Dangerous if I was super into spaceship flying. I could play Satisfactory for a way better version of DU's experience of industry. Literally any game has better PvP than DU. 
 
[I exclude construct building from the above list of activities as it is pretty high level compared to games of similar nature, such as Minecraft. And guess what; it's your most time-invested and early-developed feature.]
 
We are early adopters of this game, because we want to play a game which we don't just log in and do our favorite activities, but we also want a game in which doing these activities matter in the context of the greater sandbox universe. The ore I collect could fuel a war. The PvP I do could save or collapse an organization. The ship or LUA I designed can be adopted by thousands of players, ultimately be used to tremendous ends. The factories I build could be the backbone of my space empire. We are here waiting for this emergent content to emerge. We are want to get ahead, be relevant, be famous, be helpful in our different ways in this universe. We want to be a part of something greater. That's what a single shard sandbox is about. The fact that whatever you are doing matters in a greater scheme of things, is why we are playing this game. This is also why game changes, exploits, lack of support and lack of content matters so much.
 
The Frustrations
 
We cared about playing in the context of a greater, living universe. So we sucked up the broken mechanics and the lack of content, and started seriously investing our time in DU. This is because if we didn't, we'd have fallen behind. In other words, we had no choice but to treat this game as a full launch in our time investment decision, because otherwise we'd be punished with respect to why we are playing the game. You basically forced yourself into a position which you constantly frustrate players, because you gave them a tech demo but pushed them to play as if it was a full game. Let me elaborate on concrete examples.
 
The vast majority of specific frustration cases in DU can be categorized into three.
 
Firstly, there are game design changes that invalidate people's hours. The industry patch, screen updates, and every other perhaps much-needed change that would invalidate hundreds of hours of people's time. Now since the game is mechanically a tech demo, you want to be able to make drastic changes. But since people play it as a fully launched game, they commit their full selves and do become frustrated when major changes that are very much necessary invalidate hundreds of hours of their time.
 
Secondly, there are bugs, exploits, and lack of support. People derived truckloads of money and benefits off them (e.g. the blueprint market bug, the initial T4-T5 bot ore purchases, old broken industry, and lots more). People who didn't get support fell behind (even in DIA we lost a warp beacon, and we didn't have DRM ownership of our factories due to the lack of support). These exploits and broken gameplay elements aren't things that you can shrug off when you fix them, because their repercussions in the DU universe (aka the illegitimate wealth people acquired, etc.) carry over even into the actual launch. And you didn't (in most cases couldn't) address that in most cases. You didn't remove the profits earned by the exploiters of the blueprint bot order fiasco, for example. When players earn billions off bugs and exploits, that makes the rest of us who has to do legitimate work to earn that income invalidated. That's game-breaking, because again, most of our enjoyment of DU derives from our activities in the context of the greater DU universe than just the activities themselves. Again, you launched a tech demo in which you didn't have the manpower to do cleanups (e.g. deleting the income) after exploits, and players playing it as a full game pay the price.
 
Thirdly, there is the lack of content because the game is underdeveloped. The path from a tech demo to boredom is pretty self explanatory with this category of frustration.
 
The truth is many players wouldn't have invested that much time and effort in trying to do things that matter in this sandbox, if the game reset once it's properly launched at an acceptable quality. And no, it obviously isn't enough to argue that "players knew that they were going into a beta" because you committed to not wiping the game, including designs. Because, again, people mainly play DU to matter and to be relevant in a universe, and you left them a choice of either falling behind of that goal, or playing a semi-working tech demo.
 
Emergent Content
 
The second big picture issue I see with your decisions is about your views and predictions of how emergent content emerges. Emergent content does not emerge unless the game creates the right conditions for it to emerge. The lack of conflict and content driving mechanics mostly made it impossible for it emerge in DU.
 
[I am saying "mostly", because the one playstyle which is an exception to this is construct building. Great construct creations (although only in looks, not as much in functionality) are the only emergent content this game provides so far. And guess what, the content around this playstyle (ships, stations, expos) are the only thing NQ Twitter can mention daily.]
 
For even a beta, DU should have emerged as many stories in war, piracy, theft, great empires, great trade deals, and so on. These are the kinds of things Eve players should be familiar with. The fact of the matter is that for any other single player experience, there is a better game. But for the emergent sandbox-wide content, DU could have been the best game. Meanwhile, we got JC's "puzzles" which were badly envisioned attempts to generate that content. They were one-time events generating one-time content. They were pretty exclusive in terms of the ratio of DU players engaging with it. They were probably a waste of your devtime. An elaborate "puzzle" is an example of how not to introduce emergent content to your sandbox. True sandbox content is typically unintended, unplanned. 
 
Here are some immediate choke points on the game design which makes it non-conducive to emergent content.
 
Industry: All processes in DU leading up to construct building are fully vertically-integrateable solo (if not with a small organization). If you have 10 people, no reason to not to everything in-house. The game should have been designed from very early on in a way which deep specializations are needed to prevent self-sufficiency. Instead, your "gameplay loop" and "DU shouldn't feel like work" worries pushes you to introduce even more self-sufficiency (aka mining units). In a true sandbox people who don't want to mine would have other opportunities of value generation to buy the ore. Moreover, this is a bad case of "listening to players". Most players have no idea what makes an overall high quality sandbox. A builder will just want free materials to build. That doesn't mean that's a good implementation for a sandbox MMO.
 
Trade: JC's allergy to API, ESI and such removes huge depth from trading for the sake of trading.
 
Organization-Building: There is no value organizations can provide to members which they couldn't have gotten elsewhere. There is no service and value-generator members couldn't have gotten elsewhere unless they join. And inversely, there is no reason why members should pay "taxes" or invest in their organizations. Thus, there is no point in creating a deeply structured organization. Anything can be done better as 1 or 2 dedicated players, without all the hassle of people management.
 
Consensual PvP:  There is no structure in which players can find PvP. Solo PvP isn't even viable (at least to most who don't use remote controllers) when 2 players can man an L core that can one-shot your ship. It is a huge deal-breaker for a sandbox game if one can't hop on their ship and find daily PvP at their small time window. Frankly I don't see how you will be able to circumvent this problem in the next year or years. The devblog certainly does not provide an answer here.
 
Organizational PvP: Can be summed up as "nothing to fight over". Even if you introduce territory warfare, huge mining and resource distributions revamps will ne required to make territories worth fighting over.
 
Non-Consensual and Asymmetric PvP: Piracy is near-impossible because avoiding potential pirates is easy. There is no mechanical depth to generate a meaningful risk/reward space in which some players die to pirates, but not in a game-disabling fashion. Similarly, there are no asymmetric (big org vs. small org) opportunities for the same lack of depth. 
 
No PvE Content:  You don't seem to have money for any.
 
No Exploration Content: You don't seem to have interest for much. One can do construct and planet exploration, but it gets old pretty fast without any reward. Moreover, exploration gameplay was a very low hanging fruit to generate right at the beta launch. Just sprinkle some exclusive rewards in a manner which someone roaming regularly would find these rewards at least once half an hour (and this is how you botched shipwrecks).
 
The Trajectory of the Game and DU as an Ecosystem
 
Reading the devblog does not excite me about the future of the game and on whether you learned meaningful lessons. Emergent content will not emerge unless you begin thinking about Dual Universe as an ecosystem. In a single shard sandbox, playstyles and activities should be interconnected in an ecosystem of relations. Yes, you do seem to realize that there is a lack of content, conflict driving mechanics, and more "sand in the sandbox". You don't however, seem to appreciate the role this interconnectedness plays in generating content. 
 
For example, you want to implement space mining, but you don't think about the demand-side. Ore itself is only valuable if there is demand for it. The lack of PvP losses, the availability of ore in safe-zone players, in the market, and in people's long term stashes won't make ore worth fighting over. So you need new things with demand. And even when you meet this challenge, you have to solve the n+1 problem. For players, the optimized way of engaging with big-reward mechanics is creating consortiums and monopolies. Good conflict drivers involve inherent game designs against these. There is nothing for example, that yields advantages to smaller fleets of ships over larger fleets in DU PvP. This example illustrates how sandbox conflict drivers are supposed to be grounded on mindful and deep PvP mechanics, as well as meaningful balance of risk/reward to drive the conflict and the fun. It is unfortunately predictable that you will put some ore (or new items) to PvP space, and wait for people to sustainably fight over them, which won't happen. The nature of the reward and the nature of the PvP to obtain the reward are as much inherent to content emergence as the placement of the reward.
 
I have a pessimist prediction, because any earlier game design decisions involving ore distribution to planets and hexes, territory scanning, bot orders, industry flows, etc; indicate a similar lack in conceiving Dual Universe as a single interconnected ecosystem. Earlier decisions could have easily generated a more meaningful distribution of value to territories (the most valuable hex is cleared in a day, which is also connected to mining mechanics), things to fight over (if we would have construct PvP on asteroids, there is no reason why we didn't have construct PvP on some planets), exploration (for example, it's not costly to add 10 valuable NPC ships with sub-par AI at a given time to orbits of planets), and so on. Similarly, some future plans show the same lack of appreciation to DU as an ecosystem; such as mining units which will predictably devalue mining by underestimating how much effort players (and botters/RMT'ers) would spend to create big passive income setups.
 
Overall this all just feels like different teams at NQ are given different aspects of the game and they are all implementing their individual designs. There is no wider orchestration from upper level game designers and producers who truly can conceive DU as an ecosystem, and who can appreciate the interconnectedness different systems in the game should exhibit. JC looks like a person who has a great big picture vision, who wants his metaverse, but who does not have the necessary specific visions and approaches to sandbox/ecosystemic game design and development to get there.
 
DU's Project Management and Finances
 
As a final remark, it seems that most of this "lack of content" and the launch decisions could be due to high level decision-making for financial or technological reasons. Perhaps you heavily needed the subscription revenue. Or you needed players to truly commit to the game so you can test the tech. Even if so, the plan seems to have failed. The people who pitched the game to investors should have conducted better expectation management and better financial/business planning. 
 
I am speculating JC was put on the bench for related reasons. If so, then that's perhaps a good call depending on who replaces him. If this is the most you could deliver given the money you have, I don't see how using the same money better would have delivered a timely product. The game might have just needed more money and several years more of development to reach a workable design and launch track. If so, then the responsibility is with those who planned DU and NQ as a business and project model.
 
That said, I hope the investors keep up with it, because I think the initial promise of the game (provided good future game design) is pretty sound. It might need two years more development and a bigger team though.
 
I'll keep following how the game progresses and I hope it succeeds. I don't find the money I spent on it a waste as I already played hundreds of hours.
 
o7
 
EDIT: Corrected some grammar and sentencing.

PART THREE: FINDING THE FUN 
 
In this third and final segment of this series, we’ll take a look at Dual Universe gameplay and how we’re aiming to improve it. There’s a delicate balance to strike between staying as true as we can to the original vision, making smart design and production choices, taking players’ feedback into consideration, and creating more opportunities for community engagement. The game needs to be challenging but, most of all, fun. It can be a tall order sometimes, but not an impossible goal. 
 
This is far from being a comprehensive list of everything we’re working on, but we think it’s a good starting point for sparking conversation with the community. You’ll also notice that we have intentionally stayed away from precise timeframes. We would rather stay flexible and give ourselves the opportunity to revise our plans based on the feedback of players. 
 
Now, let’s get to the good stuff!
 

BREAKING THE MONOTONY 

Even if the main pillars of the game aren’t quite finished yet, the launch of the beta allowed us to see how the various systems work together, how fun they are, and what actually works or sometimes doesn’t.
 
Analyzing data on player behavior and reading the copious amount of feedback we receive (thanks for that!) have pointed to two main objectives we’ll be addressing in the coming months (in addition to continuing to fix bugs and balancing issues). These are: 
 
First, emend gameplay loops that are tedious for some players. We call it “fixing the player routine”, so that playing DU doesn’t feel like “going to work”. Up the stakes, adding meaningful opportunities for conflict so that the in-game economy, social components, and building aspects come together. 
  Some elements of gameplay are more fun than others in Dual Universe. Mining can often be seen as a must-do for many new players, and because it is perceived as mandatory it can rapidly feel tedious. Earning quanta is fundamental. When we launched beta, it seemed like mining was almost the only way to get money, especially for new players who didn’t have much in the way of resources or allies. 
 
To make it more interesting with a real sense of progression over time, here is the high-level plan:
 
Make it easier for newcomers to gather resources from the surface of planets without the need to dig; Then, transition players to deploying mining units once they’ve claimed a territory. Mining units will supply a steady stream of ore, depending on the specifics of the tiles the player has claimed. These mining units come in tiers and should add a sense of progression even to early mining. There will also be a production optimization gameplay if you want to use several mining units. For players who want to specialize in mining, we will introduce asteroid mining. Think of asteroids as epic mining with high reward potential. Asteroids will be spawned in the universe. Players will be able to scan clues in space to discover where they’re located. Some asteroids will contain not just regular ores, but also rare and valuable ones. Once discovered, there will be a delay before their location is broadcast to all players. This is an opportunity for explorers who find these asteroids to reap their resources first or monetize their location. The control of valuable asteroids will also create opportunities for combat, information trading, and collaboration between players. Please also note there will be asteroids in safe zones with lower-value ores.
  THE QUEST FOR QUANTA   
Another way for players to earn quanta is the previously-announced Mission System, coming in version 0.25. It will include two components: a job board to facilitate interactions between players (for example, “I need gold delivered to this location”), as well as a secure framework for player- and NQ-created hauling missions. We hope that this will kindle the game’s economy with increased specialization and proper tools for exchanges between players. The upcoming introduction of in-game challenges will also add fun ways for players to earn cash. 
 
On that note, we plan to revise the way the markets work, considering different ways to improve connections and making it less painful to trade for goods. This should make markets more accessible and fluidify trade.
 
We are looking into how we can rebalance the industry. The reaction to changes introduced in 0.23 told us that there is more work needed here. The role of schematics is definitely one of the areas we’re looking at; whatever we do with schematics, we are particularly sensitive to making a fair move for players who have invested in buying them. 
 
Builders haven’t been forgotten. We just delivered new tools for them in 0.24, and we are already working on new ones that should let builders enhance their artistic arsenal to create more amazing constructs. We’re pretty excited about them, but should forewarn you that it may be some time before they appear as higher priority changes will take precedence. 
 
The first-time player experience will get a full overhaul to facilitate the onboarding of new players. We’re doing away with the long monologues from Aphelia and the length of time it took to get into the action. The tutorials will be more contextual, and the experience of new players should get them into the core gameplay faster. As it is now, new players sometimes need to travel long distances to find a tile free of neighbors and suitable for future expansion. The redesign will allow these new pioneers to start with their friends in a location of their choosing in a more streamlined fashion. They will also be able to select an outpost design and receive startup resources. 

STOKING THE PVP FIRES 
We know a lot of players want to hear about PvP. Once we’ve fixed the main gameplay loops, this will be the next thing we’ll tackle. Our goal is for space warfare to be one of the driving forces of the emergent gameplay, fueling the economy of the game, including for players who don’t want to directly partake in combat but might want to provide ships, ammunition, and services for those who do. 
 
While there are PVPers who are in it for the thrill of the pirate’s life, there are others who aren’t pirates so much as protectors who enjoy defender-type PVP scenarios. In its current state, PVP can be seen as gratuitous, devoid of reasons to fight beyond pillaging a bested ship’s cargo. The current PvP mechanics will be modified with the addition of construct shields and a rebalancing of weapons, among other things, as well as introducing territory control in space and, later, on planets. Controlling space territories will give players benefits such as the ability to acquire highly-lucrative space resources (i.e. rare gas, singularities) and a worthwhile reason for organizations and solo players to fight. Not only that, but you’ll be waging war in style with an array of new, unique cannons and skins. 
 
GLITZIER GRAPHICS
Admittedly, graphics improvements have been on the back burner for a while in favor of building the main gameplay systems. Upgrading the visual immersion has now taken a more prominent position in our priorities, the goal being to give more “life” to Dual Universe. 
 
This ongoing process began in 0.24 when we overhauled many of the assets used in world generation (i.e. trees, rocks, ground textures, etc.) We’ve also undertaken a big push on visual effects, with a slew of new and improved visual effects planned for gradual release in the near future. Continuing our efforts with the recent addition of new voxel textures for builders, we will freshen up many older elements in the game to bring coherence between older and newer assets, as well as between voxels and assets.
 
We are also investigating longer-term visual improvements. For some time, we’ve been working on prototypes for a new planet generation technology to make sure that our planets are interesting to explore. Before we can roll this out, we will be doing an overall pass on the existing planets, like Jago, with improved terrain and more varied environment assets. There is also a project to improve lighting with the inclusion of global illumination.

CLOSING THOUGHTS
Again, please remember that all these changes will be tested first on the public test server. The final versions of these features may vary depending on your feedback and our own thought  processes. In terms of timing, most of the “player routine” fixes are planned to be gradually introduced before the end of the summer while the space warfare and PvP revamp should begin rolling out sometime after.
 
As you hopefully see, a lot of these changes are based on your feedback and a more grounded, pragmatic approach to game design. We realize that many of these topics require additional explanations and that they will probably trigger more questions. We will answer them in due time, as we’re able, in future devblogs. Until then, we look forward to hearing your thoughts in this discussion thread. See you there! 
 

Best comeback to a necro slapdown ever! i'm stealing this... 
 
 
Though in terms of the game, it was always expected that the "pioneers' as it were would create the "civilization" (yeah, lots of airquotes, I know)  and the majority of the players would come later into this already populated world full of strife, conflict, death and destruction because humans are incapable of creating anything greater.
 
Sure the leaders have first mover advantage, but incumbents suffer from lack of mobility and agility by nature. Later players would be at a disadvantage, points wise, but only by a few percent in terms of actual abilities... since you can get 80% of the buff within 20% of the time.. it's only that last level that takes ages...
 
But in retrospect, they will also not need many of the pioneer skills as they will come into a world already created anyway....
 
moreover, they will have all of the experience of the pioneers to learn from and likely make far less mistakes and be able to receive better edvice.
 
For example, no new player will waste, as I did, 2,000,000 SP ranking up in Advanced mining efficiency knowing that JC removed any benefit from it... 2,000,000 SP down the drain right there... Then there's polycarbonate plastic. multiple people have realised that they have wasted sp on those skills.  That's just off the top of my head... likely there are millions and millions of SP being wasted by us fogies.
 


 

Not interested in self-styled leaders stroking their... egos.
 
when I make ships, they all have all the mod cons like kitchens, toilets, bedrooms etc. 
 
ive made hotels, offices, restaurants and other completely unnecessary things that make the place feel more real. 
 
that’s the extent of my roleplaying. Certainly wouldn’t root for anyone who just comes along and declares themselves a leader.  

Remove the ability to warp to planets moons.  Only Warp beacons.  Make Space stations have some protection so you dont lose them while sleeping.  Then, you can watch people have wars over them, because they are now valuable.  Finish RDMS so the Duties are involved, so people who deploy Warp beacons can charge Quanta per use.  BAM now all the sudden you have dynamic interactions, and orgs will rise and fall, and war over the ability to control warping to planets (can always do slow boating, smuggle style han solo).  This would add so much to the game.  Civilizations would start to form around planets. 

Oh yes. I can confirm it. I'll say it again for those in the back: BOO upper management decided to party crash when we heard that ATOM was being paid to field security for the event. The difference in wording you see can be summed up succinctly: Know thy audience. What you see are propaganda as much as anyone else's event listings. 
 
Demlock is my second in command. 
 
Hate us if you want to - that's your prerogative. We certainly don't expect anything less once there's full PvP available. 
 
We'll be waiting. 
 
We didn't sign up to be the good guys. You'll have to find those yourselves. 
 
 

Come the fuck on man.  I am me.  I cant be anyone else.  I play DU for me.  As you play DU for you.  But to say I don't care is just talking out your ass.  I can and want DU to be the game I want it to be, or I will quit and play something else.  The original pitch from JC is the ONLY reason i'm here, as it directly appealed to the type of game I want to play. Player driven, open world pvp, safe zones, but small.  High tier ore in pvp zones.  Pirates, wars, building, alliances, espionage.   All those things.  Guess what the fuck DU was NEVER promoted with.  "come here so you can enter into events and steal other well known Sci-fi intellectual properties, and exclude those you dont want."   
 
So dont come at me fucking sideways with comments like that.  And you know better too. BOO is a million times better for the game then any of those star wars geeks are,  Because BOO is promoting DU, and playing within the DU universe, and playing by the rules I might add.  Also dont you find it funny that my Talemai blockade got the attention of NQ, where Devs showed up, and even tweeted about it, and posted in my forum post.  Because i was promoting DU.  Unlike this stupid ass star wars event, NQ was no where to be seen. Wonder why? Oh ya star wars isn't their IP.

This is question, that torments me for long time. 
 
Who will lead forces of light and order in our little space opera? Who is worthy of proverbial sword in stone?
 
I think target audience so starved for some competent "lawful good" leadership, that dozens will flock to fight under banner of such champion, if he/she trully arisen in our midst. Yet, so far most pretenders not succeed and I won't even start on all buffoonery we sadly suffered from this corner.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Yup, because killing someone in pvp space clearly is griefing. 
 
Going to pvp space and then complaining about dying is irrational and really, really really stupid