DragonShadow

Dear DUdes and DUdettes,
 
Today, we have an announcement that should make our Alpha testers happy! Due to our internal development process and by popular demand, we decided to bring some modifications to our Alpha test schedule.
 
So, from now on, next Alpha tests will happen as follows: three times a month, a 96 hours test session will occur, spanning from Thursday, 14h00 UTC to Monday, 14h00 UTC.
 
That means there won't be any test session once a month. This way, it will be easier for us to better plan production. We'll continue to analyze your feedback and the data produced by your crazy adorable in-game behavior It will allow us to better refine things along the way on our road to Alpha 2.
 
Overall, we think it's an improvement: longer test sessions covering weekends every time. This should be more comfortable for many of you!
 
Our Server status page remains the best way to get informed on when tests happen. It's up to date for next month and still here for you to visit (if it's not a bookmark in your web browser already): https://www.dualthegame.com/en/server-status/
 
Cheers, 
The Novaquark Team

What is clear from last weekends city build is that there are people playing the game that enjoy the social aspect that cities provide. It is also clear that cities need planning, a government, law enforcement, garbage collection, entertainment, among a host of other things. All those "things" give players something to do. Some of it is sims in space, but some people like that kind of thing. If DU can get those kinds of people playing the same game as the space marines and quanta miners... it'd be the holy grail.
 
DU doesn't need reasons to build cities because people want to build cities. What DU needs are mechanics that cater to those people. It was touched on earlier, but in-game communications, yes I know discord, but in-game chat, especially localized, gets people closer together, it's social. Emotes, completely unnecessary, but again social. Trading, bartering, buying, selling, directly between in-game avatars, with goods and services that can't be magically obtained from terminals or email. There are players wanting to engage in those activities, just as there are players wanting to fly around and blow things up. I think there is room in the universe for both.
 
 

I'd imagine that power needs (i.e. electricity supply) can quite effectively be used to organically create settlements and eventually cities.
 
If a large power generator is much more efficient to run than a small one, the economic benefit will naturally draw people together.
 
Money talks...

To have a somewhat imersive experience in Dual Universe we definitely need to see cities. But why exactly would people create cities in DU if just use a vast amount of resources without any real benefit except for showing off?
 
Normally city planning depends on  a lot of different factors, like the environment, available resources, especially food, the condition of the ground, expected industries etc. Those are mostly things that wont work in DU. On the other hand, building cities in DU has quite a lot of disadvantages, like being target for raiders, warmongers or just griefplayers. So without any real benefit or need to create cities we will at most have very few large organization building and maintaining a city as HQ and maybe one or two trading hubs. Mostly we'll see well hidden factories and bases which are statistically placed across the planets with nearly no clustering.
 
There are two possible ways to facilitate cities. One is giving artificial benefits like production bonus or similar things, i wont advocate that as it is unrealistic and just shows a lack of creativity in the game design. The second way is giving realistic incentives. The only incentives that work on larger scales in a mmorpg are economic or security benefits or needs. Social or educational facilities can be mostly ignored (there could be University-Type elements that increase the speed of accumulating xp for the first 20% or something of the skilltree, with which organizations can cater to new players, but that wont be a real incentive for creating a city).
 
In my mind there are three mechanics which would directly create the need for clustering buildings on a small area:
 
1. Powergrid
The first suggestion is, that all functional elements (Doors, electronics etc.) require electricity. Standard, small sized elements would need a marginal amount of power so, that a small generator that can easily be installed in every ship/building is sufficient to support them. More advanced facilities like factories, Elements with strong supporting effects (something like the University for example, or greenhouses), military elements (planetary turrets, shields, sensor units ...) however should have an exponential increase of the power required. Factory units for example should require enough power, that no stacking of small generators can support them.
To support those power hungry elements players can build power plant elements which are extremely large on scale, like 64³m³. They would support buildings within a certain radius with a set amount of power and to increase that radius you could create power-relay stations. What does this do for city building? If players want to run a factory or other facilities they need to create a power plant. If a single power plant generates enough electricity to support several factories, then the economic way of action would be creating enough factories within the vicinity of a power plant to  effectively use the generated power. A large cluster of factories in turn needs military protection as it is a nice target for raiders, thus we have some kind of city growth. At the same time owners of those power plants could rent space in the effective radius for players which can afford to create a factory, but not the required power plant.
 
This can be extended to every kind of large scale element which would be nice to have in a city, for example if we want a space port in the city. The simplest way would be to just create some flat areas for ships to land on. But what about quality of life services like refuelling or rearing constructs? Those actions can take ages. If we had large scale elements like a repair Dock, which repairs damaged ships in the vicinity if activated or refuelling stations, those can save a lot of time to players. Elements like that would also require a lot of power, thus the need for a power plant in the vicinity.
 
In short, if every advanced element has a big size and a large power requirement, coupled with the need of power plants, we would by default see clusters of buildings which can be called cities.
 
2. Resources
We can see in some videos how the ground is removed with a tool, its fast, efficient and effortless. if we can mine resources in this way, then DU players will be like a big locust swarm, run across the surface of a planet, scanning and within hours mining all interesting resources. But a big influence on city-building is the need to create a permanent structure in specific places, thus mining resources should definitely not be near-instant. Optimally mining out a big underground ore vein should take years if done by hand or several months when done with elements for mining. If we have long term mining then locations get a certain economic and strategic importance. If an organization finds a large vein of a rare metal it can't just mine it and go away, it has to defend this place against other players. Thus they need to create defensive structures, which again need power plants. If you have defensive structures and power plants on a mining base and some power surplus due to it then its economic to just continue and create the needed refinery elements etc. too, which in turn leads to clusters of buildings again.
 
3. Dependencies
Similar as all functional elements require electricity there can be other dependencies which make it necessary to create several constructs at the same place. In the new content update we learn about market Bots, where resources can be sold for quanta and elements can be bought (probably very limited after crafting is implemented, but maybe some of the most basic elements can still be bought). Those Quanta and elements aren't created from void and the sold resources can't spontaneously vanish. So if someone wants to place market bots in his base, it would make sense to require a trading hub element in the vicinity. There are quite some heavy industries which are dependent on water as coolant, so some refinery elements could actually need water purification plants in the area, the same plants could be used to support greenhouses or other buildings with water. If several buildings depend on each other there is a huge potential to incline people to gather together and create cities. Especially as everyone has a limited amount of cores available.
 
########
 
I really think that those three points are absolutely necessary for a good experience in DU and will lead to some pretty interesting results.

This post will point out a positive opinion of mine towards DU in the hopes of encouraging it. 
 
I'm coming from playing Star Sonata for 10-15 years. I played it since I was very, very young. The developers make promises and set goals that are never accomplished. They dont communicate with each other or the community hardly at all, let alone well. It takes tons of time for anything to get done, even simple things. Long standing, huge bugs are gone un-communicated within the dev team. Also, the game mechanics are very horrible. It would take too long to get into specifics on this one. 
Because of these things, I have lost my faith in the game and the developers. They no longer have any credibility, as the statements they make and goals they set are rarely achieved, and the decisions they make seem very misguided, along with a toddler-level communication system. Star sonata also wipes their sandbox every 4 months, making it not very fun at all to make a 'home.'
 
DU seems to be the opposite. Every decision they make seems to see the big picture. For instance, DU is striving to make sure that people have free places to build, but that there will also get to be 'movie like space battles,' and motivation for said battles. 
 
DU clearly communicates very well. I feel that I don't really need to explain this one. They have dev blogs, videos, tweets, gaming convention meetings, etc etc.
 
DU works very quickly and efficiently, making really good decisions. Obviously, I cant expect a small game to compare in speed. However, SS had a steam launch date set for YEARS ago, which 'is being worked on' still. There are also accounts (not mine) that were given a specific ban time, and they have yet to be unbanned -- months and months past the ban time. DU has been showing results for the projects they say they are going to do. 
 
The concept of what you do in DU matters, because were all together and it is all *kind of* permanent (someone can blow it up), is absolutely amazing. For me, when thats combined with the combat aspect, this is absolutely amazing. 
 
Overall, Im crazy excited, and have some really nice faith built up in the devs, and I see them as credible. I have faith that they will make the best decisions possible, because of their actions and how they've communicated and the really good decisions they've made up to this point - everything from the travel system (stargates, FTLs, etc) to the voxel system, to the aspects of combat, and safe zones. DU is the game Ive been searching for for so, so long, and does everything right that SS does wrong. 
 
 
*This post is purely my opinion*

Dome-tech:
 
 

For once I'll defang each of your BS comments:
 
I never talked of being bullied in EVE, in fact bullying in EVE will get you permabanned by CCP as it is a violation of the TOS. I completely understand why GigX made the commenst he did under the conditions he did it  but agree it is not acceptable. Sadly CCP is very selective with taking such actions as more high profile players have in fact made comments at least as bad in public, at EVE events and remain in place untouched.
 
I never claimed I wanted babystiing, that is in your twisted head. In fact I have on several occasions ben quite clear I see nothing wrong with ganking or griefing as such.
 
The 'mercs' in EVE are wardeccers and blobs who will sit in blinged ships preying on what they can easily kill with no risk . These Merc will run and dock up as soon as anything remotely able to bring an actual fight shows up because they are not there for the fight, they are there for the killboard being green and not take any risks/chances to get that.
 
There is no monopolies in EVE.. I'd challenge you to point one out.
 
I care for economics, in fact you have no clue what that means or does. You just know the word. 
 
WingspanTT is a groups of players with a very sneaky and interesting idea of gameplay and they go to great length to make their way of playing possible. Their tactics and methods I do not always agree with but I've had great fun with them in game. I know quite a few of them and actually have met several players IRL.. R&K are tactical masterminds who operate well beyond your comprehension of what the game can offer which is why you tend to trashtalk their actions when it suits you. Frankly you are starting to show you really have no idea what either WSP or R&K do or how they operate, just that you watched their YT content.
 
Your comments about EVE, what it's main attraction is and why I would be here are just laughable and even more establish you as a wannabe kid with no clue but what YT and Reddit tell you. I very much doubt you even have a serious history in EVE and even if you are active you have _no clue_ about the game outside of pewpew which is just a part of the game when you have the  motivation and original thinking ability to make the game whatever you like. 
 
I have been very clear as well that it is my opinion DU can become the next level on what EVE offers and I will take the good and the bad in that respect. I do not care for 'Mercs' in EVE as they are a waste of time to mess with as they tend to be scared kids who run and hide if you actually bring a fight.
 
And where did I not want bounty hunting? If properly implemented that could be very interesting and lucrative. If it's done like in EVE it would be a joke.
 
You want Mercs after you? Why don't you share your main toon name in EVE, feel free to DM me if you like, and I'll come hunt you myself as I am convinced you have no idea .. Pretty sure though you'd just stay docked up and offline for a while to avoid the consequences of your challenge.
 
HTFU has _nothing_ to do with what you are blabbing about. Again.. no clue
 
'Bounty hunters will farm you for money' - Man you are thick and show you are truly clueless as bounty hunting is not worth anyone's time in EVE and frankly I can find anyone at anytime they are online in EVE within 5-10 minutes.. it's really not hard and again, this shows you are clueless
 
I'm not going into detail, but Proviblox (and my main toon is not actually part of that, he just lives  and operates out of there) knows exactly who is hiring which group to do what.. It's the usual suspect and their tactics are predictable as well as easy to trap and counter. The Provi Rapid Response Fleet will make short work of them once they are done with their antics. Provi Intel knows where they are, when they  are there and where they go. It's part of how some choose to play the game and that is fine as it _is_ part of the game. As said, it's also extremely easy to work around just like wardecs.
 
Blockading is not griefing at all, again here you show you really are clueless and this is also where your misunderstanding of the concepts comes from. To get back to Provi.. A gate camp will only exists for as long as it is tolerated. If required the PRF will deploy and generally the campers will be gone before they are engaged because, again, risk averse.
 
Again, I have no problem with bandits, in  fact I agree they will/must be part of the game. Bandits are not griefers though.
 
Again, you have _No Clue_ of what goes on in Provi, in fact I doubt you understand anything about what goes on in EVE. And you certainly have no idea about Signal and frankly I pity you for apparently needing to keep bringing up things you really do not understand to try and appear tough.. You're really not though, in fact you are quite the opposite.
 
 
 
Oh and my boss does not yell at me because for one, he has no reason to as I am his strongest team leader and he is well aware that yelling at employees that you manage (or anyone for that matter) is a sign of weakness and inability to lead, something you may learn one day.
 
In general, it is quiet obvious you use this forum as a way to vent your frustrations and potentially inability to manage your direct surrounding otherwise. I get that and I guess it is what it is, so we'll have to learn to live with it.

I would propose similar... but, this would take a major agreement on all parties involved, which probably wouldn't happen...
 
The starter planet should almost be a player designated safe zone itself. Yes, there will be mining, and eventual resource depletion, but if everyone is careful, then it keeps an area that is a "Neutral Zone." Maybe a shared mining operation that all organizations are part of to have a shared pool for newcomers on the initial planet. So, growth is very carefully monitored only on the starter planet (or the hemisphere, even just the quadrant, the Ark ship is in). This would give new players down the road a way to get off the starter planet, by either purchasing the resources "cheap,"[1] or digging them out of that shared mining location(s) themselves, or having a common area to find work under any of the organizations.
 
Once you're out of the area players have fenced off, you're on your own, and good luck. But, it would give late comers a way to start building up their resources without needing to worry about who's toes their stepping on, or if the resources are depleted, etc... because the people who have been around longer are trying to keep that area usable for the newer folks that show up.
 
If there isn't a way implemented in game by NQ, then players purposefully keeping it useful is the only way I see it staying sustainable.
 
I'm not saying it should be completely safe, or that there couldn't be any political maneuvering for better standing, etc... just that it's a player designated neutral area for the express purpose as a launching point for the future. Even if attempting to keep the area sustainable fell through, having an area that has emerged where all organizations can meet in relative safety, have a large market area, a "safe" area for new arrivals, etc... could be worth the attempt for most organizations to see it through.
 
-M
 
[1] - I say "cheap," as if there's multiple organizations all adding to the same pool, the overall cost would be lowered dramatically. 

This is not necessarily the case, in the real world for example ground resources in Europe are pretty much depleted, but it is still a main hub of activity as it has stable governments, high population, a lot of infrastructure, and can easily import what it needs raw material wise from abroad.
   If the right mechanics are in place, the same thing could arise in this game as well. As long as there is enough value in land and the infrastructure already built, and the cost of buying raw materials is not too high (depending on the ease of ferying materials from the ressource rich places to the resource depleted ones), people are not going to abandon depleted places.
   If all the mechanics are well designed, having depletable resources could create different places specialized in producing different things, which besides making the game world more interesting would be a great thing for trade gameplay, as it will be profitable for merchants to ferry ressources from the fringes to the core, and on the return trip to bring back manufactured stuff like ships, weapons, components, food or whatever is in need on the fringes due to the lack of efficient manufacturing/farming there.
   And more trade would mean more piracy, which in turn will provide a need of policing/protection of trade routes by government or mercenary forces, and the list goes on. 
 
   All this to say that places can still be important hubs of activity even after the depletion of their resources, if the gameplay mechanics are done right. And to be done right, the mechanics need to ensure that the cost of importing raw materials is not too high and that there are big incentives for people living in depleted areas to not move out.

It sounds to me like there could be many arkships unless I am completely missing what was said in the preview vids. After certain periods of time or at population milestones, new players could just start emerging from a new arkship. 

Personally i dont want resources or even holes in the ground to regenerate. It's all part of the story players will create. Keep in mind though that resources will be rare and common ones. As they already said the common ones will be very abundant and hard to dig completely on a planet. People will mine mostly specific holes for rare resources. Still it all depends on how resources are going to be spread over the planet, i dont think a planet will be uglified because of its size, but in that case will still be players fault, and part of the story.
Trees do not regenerate, but you'll be able to plant them probably in an expansion (jc said in a interview)

I wouldn't necessarily be worried about this, as vertical building is not only possible, but encouraged. I imagine the Ark-Zone quickly turning into a virtual favella of small houses, shacks, and factories all built on top of each other. That might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I think it would be very cool to see happen.
 
Or maybe there will be an incentive to build cheap skyscrapers newbros can rent out for their starter homes? I imagine if you need any kind of Item storage then having your own space close to the central market of the Arkship will be very valuable indeed. That seems like one of the best ways to encourage the large skyscrapers the Devs clearly want to see happen in this game. And I hope they manage it, because an actual player built city in an MMO would be such a cool thing to see.

In order to make scanned deposit locations (more) sellable I would suggest the abillity to generate ore scanning results, which are normal items that can be traded.
The scan results can not be manipulated, so their information is correct.
They store the following information about the ore vein:
Type(s) of ore Amount of that ore Depth Planet Position (some sort of projection at the location in the ground where the deposit is) The hex field on the map Date at which the scan was done  
The amount of ore, depths and the exact position would be depending on the players scanning skill and precision at which the deposit was triangulated.
So you don't have the exact amount of ore and not the exact location, so you have some error there, of course.
When you place the scan result on the market players can see everything, except the exact position and the hex field on the planet.
That way you can effectivly sell scanning results without the need for a huge amount of trust involved.
One problem would still be, that the ore deposit might be already mined, so players should be able to rescan deposits and then update their scan results on the market.

How exactly would this improve (or even change) the balance of the game?

There will already be a few "aliens" at launch, in the form of animal species, so there will probably be both predators and prey.
 
That could give a whole new flavour to a "walk in the forest"....
Or perhaps you'd need to be careful of burrowing animals while mining...
Some animals may become aggressive when they detect the pulses of a mining scanner...
Some animals may consider refined metals to be a tasty snack...
 
If sentient aliens are ever introduced to DU, I'd hope they would not be one-dimensional static "cutouts" that are simply aggressive or friendly or "a place to get quests".
DU's underlying architecture provides the potential processing power to make aliens (NPC's) actually interesting and unpredictable. It could be material for some great expansions a few years after launch...
 
I see no problem with the idea of having sentient aliens in a "sandbox" game, provided they are integrated "properly". They simply add variety. SWG had them, EVE has them, and in neither case did it "ruin" the potential for player interaction, civilisation-building or anything that can be achieved without them being there.

You're no fun.

On the left here, we see...empty space. Directly in front, we also gain a beautiful view of...empty space. Now, if you would please direct your attention to the starboard camera here, we are able to observe a rare specimen of the universe: dust particles.
 
Thank you for choosing Magnatron Tours today!!

The "Bed" can be a useful element for logging out of the game and if you get disconnected from the game. Let me explain.
 
By "resting" on a bed element that is not already claimed, you can bind yourself to that element when you log out. So no matter where that element goes (if it is on a ship) when you log back in, you spawn as resting on the bed.
 
Similarly, if you get disconnected, you will spawn in at the last bed that you claimed.
 
A "Bed" element can only be claimed by one person at a time, when a person claims a different bed, the last one he claimed is freed for someone else to claim.
 
That would also make bedrooms a nice feature on ships and planetary buildings, where you go to "rest" and then log off the game. Also, this would possibly make the Hotel/Motel business viable.
 
Another possibility is that if you log off without being in a rest state, it may leave your avatar in game and vulnerable for a period of time. When you log back in, the game tries to put you where you were, but if you were in a moving ship... you may end up in space. Trying to log off without being in a rest state could give you a warning as such.
 
Just an idea
 
 

How exactly would this improve (or even change) the balance of the game?

What I'm talking about is the mocking and continued harassment of players who are clearly in distress and pissed about what happened to them in game. 
As an example for the toxic mentality you can look at Mittanis harassment at a con of an player including the the statement "if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is ....". That is no longer a playstyle.
how do you know? there is no information on how DU will handle PVP and looting  etc. The only thing we know so far is that NQ has stated that PVP and nonPVP playstyles will be viable. The EVE Players are the ones that go around claiming it will be free for all PVP / loot everything. 

construct to construct was rather low on their strech goal list, so I would be a bit surprised if that would be the main point of the game. DU will attract a different crowd than EVE and NQ will have to take that into account otherwise they will fail. 
 
I also kind of wonder why EVE players want to make DU into EVE 2.0? if you love EVE so much go back and play EVE. 

It's been awhile since I posted this, and since then I realized it was arbitrary.
 
I actually had a classmate do a small, extraneous speech on why we should switch to metric, and part of his argument was this chart.
 

 
Now that's just... bonkers. Metric is on the right for a comparison, by the way. This got me thinking.
 
"Why do we always have to make things weird and complicated."
 
Fun Fact, did you know the speed of light is 16,999,000,000,000 Twips/Second?

As an American I say, all hail metric!

Hey everyone,
 
My suggestion is that we give the option to change out of our space suits and into regular clothing. This could be military uniforms (NQ could add various types of military uniforms and we could customize colors to make unique military uniforms for our organizations), regular civilian clothes, and that sort of thing. I think this could add to the role-play style and maybe could even be a commodity that is traded on the markets?(Military uniforms, civilian clothing etc). 
 
Obviously this would only be possible inside of closed spaces that have oxygen support, otherwise we'd need our space suits. Might even be cool if NQ could develop some sort of system that lets organizations port in their organizations emblem or sigil and have it printed somewhere on the uniforms or even painted on the side of vehicles, spaceships and constructs. Just adds to the aesthetics and role-play element and will make organizations more unique.  

I'm a little old school, everything should be measured in cubits.

Ugh I'm American and I hate everything about the imperial system (except temperature; Fahrenheit is a good measurement for human comfort). Especially unit conversions... Freaking slugs and kips and horsepower... Like come on.
 
Anyway... They did show in the latest video that you can use html and css to create widgets with information about the construct you're in. So as far as that goes, I have a feeling you could make an option to switch between metric and imperial units, or just have widgets in imperial entirely. And ship cockpit interfaces are programmable with Lua. So I don't think you'll have much trouble interpreting things in the game as it will probably be easy to have non-hud information displayed in whatever units you like.