Eternal
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Posts posted by Eternal
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On 9/22/2021 at 6:58 AM, FerroSC said:
My single player property is basically a city. So what you are describing is 30 mediocre players, not 30 awesome tiles that actually make a player community.
How is it a city or a center if you own everything in it? It's called a private property the size of a center! Urbanization is when people begin to migrate to planned or organic central areas from rural areas in search of economic opportunities. An economy is consolidation and distribution. Ofcourse in order to compete globally using the limited resources a country has, you got to learn how to consolidate. As the economy improve gradually, you can afford to distribute gradually to lower the inequality. It's a trickle down economy, it's unequal, but that is what you need to do to compete with other countries that are consolidating. If a country has 50 people and it can only produce 5 loaves of bread everyday, a capitalist country will distribute the 4 loaves to 4 people so they can eat a loaf everyday and be more competent, and they will use the last loaf for the remaining 46. As economy improve due to competence, you can now produce 10 loaves of bread everyday and let's say the population is still 50, you have more to distribute. A socialist country however will equally distribute: 5 loaves of bread everyday, 50 people, they each get 1/10 of a slice, a crumb! You see, how are you going to compete on a world that is consolidating except you do the same or you offer cheap labor until you are able to transition to a consumer economy?! Vietnam does not have any Alpha-grade city because they are distributing, while Jakarta, KL, Bangkok, and Metro Manila are Alpha-grade cities! Sure, these countries have more inequality, but they are more competent and are newly industrialized! Vietnam's economy is mostly SMEs and you can very much see this from their lack of skyscrapers. When a country is more competent, it has a higher GDP per capita which is what you can afford to distribute. You consolidate your investments to a primary city!
Also, when you construct something, there has to be a surplus of benefit for it. You are building a private property the size of a center, with a capacity of a center, just for yourself and with no economic benefit? It's a white elephant! Give me reasons how your "city" is not a white elephant? This game is full of that! This is after all an aesthetic game and not an economic one! An economy has an engine and apparently there is nothing in this game that drives the economy but aesthetics. It's a game of art, and just like in real-life, it's not sustainable because there is nothing practical about it.
This is a game of aesthetics! Correct me if I'm not! It is a persistent single-shard 3D Deviantart community with an unintuitive but extensive editor. We are basically art collecting here! Economics, in the sense of a game, is driven by in-game progression in which this game has none, and instead this is completely player-driven with aesthetics and non-sensical PVP (a PVP that actually has no progression) as the only essence of the game!
The vibrant cities and vibrant economy you people have been dreaming about is not possible because this game don't have the fundamental design to make that possible! You will continue to dream and I'm just giving you the reality! What "city" and what "economy" are you talking about? A city is about people as well because it's about the activity that take place there! You cannot call something that is privately-owned by an individual or a few a "city" or a "center"! It's an excessive white elephant private property/s!
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1 hour ago, Hirnsausen said:
If you build armed ships "because of the pirates", then use these armed ships against the pirates. Not against normal, nice people. I believe strongly, you do not speak the truth.
And who are you convincing? Bro, there is no conservatism at all in our playerbase. With no conservatism, you could not correct him as we don't have any social standards. Nobody to gain political support from! What is politically correct is what the majority agrees, and sadly the majority are discultural!
They will buy FREMMs and claim it's for anti-piracy on the commissioning ceremony and they will expend it's armaments pirating the seas and they don't need to save any face to a discultural society that we have!
This is one of the problem you will get on a free-for-all completely player-driven group-based MMO as this one! There is no order and we can't put ourselves to order at all! I now tried a game like that and I now know how it doesn't work!
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Dual Universe is a free-for-all completely player-driven group-based PVP MMO if that is what they want to develop the game to be! That is how the real-world works except we learned how to put ourselves in order by having social standards and upholding them through conservatism and discipline. If we are all gonna have to work together and interact with each other, we must be able to maintain good relationship with one another. This is what a developed society has! This game however has absence of it! We have a disordered society on what is naturally a disordered world! We don't have any developed culture!
This game started out way back then when the org directory was created and a bunch of random people were recruiting for numbers like revolutionists. That is how our society is in this game from the beginning until now! That is a patron system!
The game sucks that I quit! You will throw us into a free-for-all world, ofcourse there will be people who will take advantage of others as we are hierarchal in nature. What is worse is we have this patron and supporter culture!
There is nothing developed in our society in this game! We don't even have any democracy because that is not possible in the game! Even if we managed to craft the foundation of it, there is no sovereignty! With no sovereignty, you can't have an official representative government! It's impossible! What we have are de facto organizations that have their legates and members. If you are not happy with that organization, you leave for another de facto organization or you solo the game! Patron and supporters in nature! Who will not quit if the game is like this? Personally, I would rather play an equitable MMO which is already proven in concept than this free-for-all group-based non-sense that doesn't even work!
Politics in the game doesn't work! How will it work when there is no sovereignty? The game is about patron and supporters de facto organizations that compete with each other for power in the form of number of supporters! Nothing matters in the game but that! Hard power and soft power is for the means of influence! It is a patron game!
Economy in the game also doesn't work and that is a different topic! I can expound on that, but the point is it doesn't work as well and it's never been proven!
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You see, people in this game cannot urbanize because the most basic unit of land that can be owned individually is 1 Km² which is too big! You got no centralization because everything is space and you spend most of your time in this game travelling! Imagine this: agglomerate these oversized territory units, most of it are useless space that serve only as a logistical burden!
You are looking for an urban center when the game makes it impossible for you to create that without incorporating?
30 player properties (30 tiles) in this game in a line is 30 Km long and will take you 40+ minutes to traverse by foot. With that time, you travelled inter-city on an efficient electrified commuter rail to traverse just 30 player properties! Go to a downtown and tell me how many stores do you see per block?
There is no population density in this game, what you will find here is a sparse distribution of the population. A waste of your time! Tell me how are you gonna do business on a logistic like this?
This game is so rural because of the size of tiles! You cannot urbanize in this game!
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On 8/31/2021 at 2:09 PM, Elitez said:
Yup. Some Industry Specialists with Specific build orders would be nice to have!
Here is my question to you:
Is it fun gameplay-wise to invest all your time attaining very specialized skill set for you to spend all your time doing very specialized work on a production-oriented economy?
What you want is not a game, it's a job!
All miners will ever do is mine the raw ores because that is all they can ever do because you gated them. Their ores will end up in production via the putting-out system. Again, people will do very specialized work in a production line on an industrial system (factory system), or in the putting-out system (cottage system), whichever process is taken, you will end up in the end, a finished product to be sold to the service market. Again, there are people who are doing very specialized work in the service sector such as a pilot, a gunner, etc.
It's a job man, it's not a f*cking game! A game is supposed to be fun and not repetitive! How do you make it fun? By giving us all the options so we can have varied activity and varied experience like in Runescape and Final Fantasy XI on one character on one account. Force us into specialization and people will quit because it is not fun! Look at Ragnarok Online: you can make a character from a specific class to have a specific stat and skill build. What do people do? They fill up their character slots and even make more accounts (to expand their limited character slots) so they can have more options because it is boring to specialize! Imagine making a pure forger Blacksmith and playing the game with just that? Do you understand? It is f*cking boring! So if people do this on a class-based build-oriented game, would it be logical to just give them all the options on one character so they don't need to make so many characters to have a varied activity and varied experience?
What you want is boring, apparently! They made this game specifically for the hardcores like yourself! NQ has done nothing to make their game playable! If you are looking for a rewarding experience, you can always scale a playable game! Instead they made this a difficult game fundamentally and they only listen to the hardcores, and so everyone here that is left are a handful of them! You make a difficult game, it's for the hardcores only! An inclusive game is playable and scalable!
It's time that they stop catering to the hardcores if they want this game to take off!
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5 hours ago, Jake Arver said:
Someone here once said DU is the "you just do not understand" company
A "company" is a corporate organization. What does it mean to incorporate? Starting a sole-proprietorship means you register and operate a business under your name or a DBA, which means you are fully liable for it. If you get into a partnership, the general partner is liable. People can get together and consolidate their investments to start a limited liable corporation, that is what a "company" means. An incorporation (Inc.) means a fully liable business has been incorporated, so therefore it is now a corporation with plural shareholders.
The problem that I'm trying to bring up here is the issue with shares. A company has many shareholders (investors). It's way too risky to invest in something that has no protection. Incorporating doesn't work! What you call a "share" is a claim! How can I assert that? You can't! Like I said, we got no platform to do that!
To give you the reality, it doesn't work! And here is the game forcing you to incorporate!
You will get automatic mining unit in this game, the industry is automatic and all you got to do is feed it with materials, and retailing is automatic -- you can solo this game with those leverage! Who would want to be an employee when everybody in this game has an equity (as they can all mine with their own equipment on their personal and unclaimed tiles) and they receive 150K of ayuda (financial assistance) everyday. Only an idiot would want to be an employee on a condition like this! They all have the ability individually to employ and support themselves, so why would they work for anybody as an employee? Everyone should be an entrepreneur! Why? Because they all have the ability to generate income out of their own resources! If you can do that, you are a successful entrepreneur, which is easy to do for everybody! Do you have to make any ends meet? Nope, that's why income level doesn't matter on a game that has no survival!
As far as equitable system is concerned, none of these things work! You can play in a group inequitably, I won't, and I will play something else with a sense of equity! I ain't playing a game of slave!
They failed to factor this game for the individual! I mean look at the basic unit of land in this game? It is 1 Km². That is the size of a financial center! If you just made it 5,000 m² and let them agglomerate into an urbanization with no government, this game would have realistically worked! 1 Km² for each player is too big to agglomerate together (30 tiles in this game in a line is just 30 player properties but 30 Km long. It will take you 40+ minutes to traverse that by foot. That is equivalent to travelling inter-city in real-life for just 30 player properties), which means the org will acquire the 1 km² and everyone will centrally live in it! So we are back here again with shares which does not work!
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13 hours ago, Hachiro said:
At the end some members and organizations in the AC were uncomfortable with the "government" of the alliance, especially because several of the major orgs became nearly completely inactive.
There are 2 types of alliances: an association and a confederation. The difference between the two is an association is an inter-organizational organization that is established from a treaty of cooperation signed between members, while a confederation is a centralized organization created by a treaty consisting of member organizations. One has a central authority and the other does not! Arch Confederacy (AC) is a confederation! You know very well what union is like that and a country walked out of it. And here you are in this game, doing the same thing. Not all unions are confederate!
Government of the alliance? Sounds like a confederation!
You know, everyone is free to structure an organization the way they want. My point is my political opinions are different!! Let them do what they want to do, I will not join them! My sentiment, regarding in-game, is they are a dictator organization! This is the type of gameplay this game promotes! I mean how can you not have any individualism in this game while working in a group? Because of the lack of social standards! You throw us into a free-for-all environment like that and there will always be people who take advantage of others through inequity! I mean look at this hierarchy lol! I'm not ignorant!
This game is terrible! It's a collective hierarchal game! You have 50 people and 1 dictator: those 50 people cannot pressure the dictator when they are greater in number? You see, nothing in this game is gonna evolve from the feudal society this game has always been since the very beginning, because people here are ignorant! When people are ignorant, they don't know how to assert themselves, and you can very much see this on the widespread of slavery in this game!
One of the reason why I left this game is I am not playing a game of slave! I mean look at the MMOs I played: they all have equitable gameplay! While this game? I don't think they've done anything to promote self-interest in gameplay!
Do you invest in something that has no security? You talk about shares (which is by the way a "claim") but there is no way to assert it as the game is entirely player-driven? It doesn't f*cking work unless we have a complex society that has a reputation system!
Working with people in this game as a stakeholder is impossible through incorporation!
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I still believe that this game is highly flawed which is why it's failing right now! You gonna agree with me on that! It is evident!
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2 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:
"This game is nothing like all the failed MMO clones that i've played, and not enjoyed, over the last ten years. Why don't you make it more like those games?"
I will quote what I said from another thread because it's the same thing that I would like to say as a reply here.
On 8/9/2021 at 1:38 AM, Eternal said:You see, you have to give enough considerations to the game-design! Aside from the tech, their proposed game-design is also not yet proven. That is why you should put them to the test and make tweaks/revisions along the way and also consider specific already-proven designs from other successful MMOs, to deliver, in the end, a good working gameplay.
You don't reinvent the wheel my son! You only replace something good with better design for specific application. When you are innovating, you are testing something different. If in the end it's not better, you don't reinvent the wheel and you use the proven design!
When was the genre good, tell me? My opinion is pre-2007 it was the best, and then the genre started to go downhill from that period. Stop playing the f*cking Eve and look at other games with proven good game-design and mechanics and use those if you have nothing better!
The thing is we came from different games, my age group is different than the majority here (I'm 27 right now), and I'm Asian which is culturally different even in gaming, all of which influenced my personal preferences in MMORPGs. MMORPGs by the way is the most popular in Asia (even today) than anywhere in the world which is why most of them is developed from there. To tell you more about our culture, we are very clingy when we socialize online. You never played in an Asian server because of language barrier and residence but to tell you about my experience, it is more social than playing in a Western server because of the culture of our community and larger playerbase than in a Western server (as MMORPGs are niche in the West but the most popular in the East, until it was overtaken). We also prefer something that is visually beautiful, that is why our developers put a lot of effort in the art design and I think you can notice this. There is a demographic difference which accounts for the difference of preferences.
Personally I don't like World of Warcraft. I don't like Final Fantasy XIV right now because it ended up as a WoW clone. Final Fantasy XI is my favorite MMORPG of all time due to it's quality even though it was not the most popular of that time. Ragnarok Online was the most popular of that time when I was living in Korea, which by the way, is one of my all-time favorite MMORPG. Trickster Online is also like Ragnarok Online in design, so I am also fond of that game. And then there was the popular Maplestory which I played back when I was in Korea which was very good during pre-Bigbang and was one of the best experience I had. And then there is the Western browser-based Runescape, pre-3K worth limit, pre-GE, which was one of the best I played (even as of right now, it is able to retain a high population). If you played Dofus, it has a good crafting. I played a lot of MMORPGs (traditional and modern) both in Asia and in the West but what I mentioned are my favorites. I dislike WoW. When Final Fantasy XIV released, it was time-gated, it lacks content, and it was buggy. It is worse than Final Fantasy XI, lacks the content of Final Fantasy XI, but it has it's design. The game was remade from being based on Final Fantasy XI to a WoW clone which is why I dislike it.
If you only played Eve, then you don't see what I see. There are good game-design and mechanics in these games that are worth considering as those are what made them successful in the first place. You only put something better when you got something better!
The end-goal is to design a good working gameplay that is playable for everyone!
Everything this game considered are from Eve like it's the only game you played! Eve is a PVP sim that is very much a niche ever since then! The reason it is a niche is it is not good to most people! Personally I don't like it! People like a game based on game-design and mechanics that it has and the amount of content that it has primarily.
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41 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:
Nothing to add
But I have more to add:
You can't make the game exclusively for the hardcores, only the hardcores will play it! You make the fundamentals simple enough to be playable but scalable enough to be rewarding! When they presented a demo of this game in IGN, it was an issue brought out by the interviewer but NQ remained adamant with their design. That's one of the problem with this game! And then they copied the passive skill system of Eve which is a terrible idea! So do you see now that the game is fundamentally broken and adding more contents for the sandbox isn't gonna fix it? At this point, they need to overhaul the game and learn from the mistakes of this build to fix it!
If I'm a shareholder at NQ, I will suggest and vote to replace JC as the President. The board replaced him, that's what probably happened.
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21 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:
and all others would go play starbase
All others would go play Starbase because the state of the MMORPG genre has since been sh*t. You and I have been one of the earliest follower of this game and I remember that we had a discussion about the genre (particularly traditional MMORPGs) back then. You and I share the same preference when it comes to game-design and we love similar games.
Starbase has way better building fundamentals than DU as it is simple enough to be playable and can be made more advanced through systemization, but DU has a very complicated building fundamentals that offer more freedom of creativity but it's not worth it. What these games are feasibly capable of delivering are building games in an MMO sim. You add mining to it, you add crafting to it, you add PVP to it, it is still an MMO sim as they designed it to be fully player-driven. An RPG has in-game RPG contents which these games have none! These games are the very definition of a purely sandbox. A sim, at the end of the day, is just a sim, it has no gameplay-loop because RPG contents are absent. Runescape works because it has RPG contents to support a gameplay-loop.
The traditional MMORPGs that we played back then all work. These purely sandbox MMO sims however are unproven innovative concepts. Tell me, do they work gameplay-wise? It's missing an essential recipe! The essence of life is survival. You don't even have that mechanics in the game, and you expect to replicate that kind of world at a somewhat more simplified level? The essence of MMORPGs is RPG progression. You can't find any purpose on a world that has no essence. Someone gives you an empty bucket and tells you to find something in it, what can you possibly find in the bucket? You are gonna tell me that it is us who should search for purpose? When the bucket is empty, you will find nothing! It's a nihilistic game! I want people here to tell me if this concept even works! Does a 100% sandbox MMO sim work? You will get nothing out of it but building for the essence of aesthetics and a platform for socialization. That's all you will get in games like DU and Starbase! They are innovative ambitious online games, but in the end, they fall short in delivery! They failed to do sufficient feasibility research and planning, and so what you ended up with is something unrealistic that doesn't work!
Starbase is the better building/socialization MMO sim than DU, and so people will just go there until something good happen to the MMORPG genre. To me, Starbase is not satisfactory! It's a filler game to what is currently a garbage genre!
The games that we played back then all work, remember that! Tell me if you are getting the same experience here and in Starbase? Tell me if they can even pass the quality standard of the genre? They are much worse than Bless Online that Aeria Games back then rejected. I played Bless and I can tell you that it's better than this game and Starbase!
There is a lot of better and proven available options in the market that passes quality standard than this game and Starbase which are experimental! Based on my own assessment right now, I don't think DU and Starbase has any potential.
Let's apply some realistic thinking! Even I myself didn't see this before, and I backed the game and joined the hype train, but I'm living in the future right now playing those games that don't work even in concept! We should have learned by now! They are not even gonna overhaul this game! They are not even gonna wipe out this game! They don't even have any realistic plans for the game! It's doomed!
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This is the Golden Triangle CBD of Jakarta. 150 hectares (1.5 km²) in total.
This is the SCBD of Jakarta. 50 hectares (0.5 km²) in total. To put this into perspective, this is as big as La Defense CBD in Paris. La Defense CBD is just half of a territory unit in this game!
This is Ortigas CBD of Metro Manila. 100 hectares (1 km²) in total. A perfect example of a CBD the size of a territory unit.
Unrealistic urban planning and development gameplay speaking. Unrealistic corporate system with no security with the game forcing you to incorporate. Nothing in this game works! Even the economy in this game does not work!
Let's stop thinking unrealistically big when the fundamentals of the game all do not work in the first place!
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Necropost, but I'll give my input anyway.
In this game, a territory unit is 1 km². To give you an idea how large that is, an important centralized mixed-use business district within a capital city in real-life has about 100 hectares (1 km²) of area. The average city (I'm not talking about a district) with skyscrapers and high-rises is designed to accommodate a population density of 20K people per km², so to apply this logic to the game, each of the 1 km² CBDs within that city is designed to accommodate about 20K on average. The city of Manila (an administrative district) in Metro Manila is the most densely-populated city in the world with a population density of 45k+ people per km². In this game, you run at 40 km/h. To give you an idea how fast that is, you can travel almost 7 km in 10 minutes by foot. An intra-city MRT in real-life is designed to operate at safe speed of 60 km/h only when the rail is good (when the rail is old, it operates at half of that speed).
Do you need any transportation system/infrastructure to travel intra-city when you are the transportation? Even less, intra-district? Not even to transport inventories an avatar could not carry as there is 2 km of linked container HUB range. This is very centralized and efficient, so my question is why do you need more area? You can't possibly have traffic with no vehicles, you might as well build more centralized!
Do you have atleast 20K people to justify the development of a mixed-use CBD with multiple high-rises and skyscrapers in a territorial area the size of an actual CBD in real-life, making your community less centralized and therefore less efficient as you build bigger than what you need? Even more, a city? The point of building bigger vertically is to accommodate more population density and horizontally to accommodate more population. When population density becomes low due to under-capacitated horizontal development, your community becomes scattered (uncentralized) meaning less logistical efficiency.
As far as land is concerned, a territory unit in this game is the basic unit of land that can be owned individually. Do you know how big a km² is? That is an entire CBD in real-life and not just a commercial lot. My question is why is the basic unit so big for individual development? A community is a decentralized agglomeration of these individually-owned units, not a centralized individually-owned single unit of land that is so big. So how do we settle land dispute? You want us to build or buy a property on a land that we don't own? Do you know how a condo unit ownership works? You are forced to enter into a share agreement of land. If the game is completely player-driven, a share is not secured when there is no law.
Another thing I would like to add is you don't finance any construction without any balancing. When your infrastructure spending is a surplus, it is a good investment, but when it is nothing but a deficit, you are an idiot! Why didn't Vietnam's proposed bullet train ever constructed despite being in proposal since about a decade ago? It's not economical! If you spend and then you make less than what you spent from it, you are not investing, you are just wasting money. You don't just build, you do a study first if it is economically viable! Everything I see in this game and everything people aspire to build are white elephant projects!
The game doesn't work! I ain't building anything! Where is the sense of reality based on gameplay? If you gonna limit the game to make it realistic gameplay-wise, you gonna limit the game so it works!
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1 hour ago, joaocordeiro said:
The game does promote balance of power.
Sure some people can make the choice to fight them. But they will either quickly win or quickly lose.
There wont ever be a "balance"
Like I said, if we don't find a way to establish balance of power, we will continue to live under the hegemony of Legion. Hegemony means we live under their influence both militarily and diplomatically because they are so powerful and there is no rival to set as equilibrium. What you have is imbalance of power, a dominion of a sole power over the rest of us.
What do you mean not fight them? You're gonna have to and you're gonna have to do it diplomatically in a way that you are balancing you're international relations. Balancing your international relations as I said is about representing your own interest and neutrality. You can't just engage them diplomatically under their hegemony with no bargaining power at all. If you give in to their influence through diplomacy, they have soft power over you. As I said, it accomplishes the same thing and they didn't need to fire a single shot! I will say this again: you might as well kill me than to negotiate my defeat and be colonized because I value my honor more than my life!
You can't negotiate with them without the balance of power. That is giving in to their soft power. It's a herd of deer negotiating with a pride of lions. Ofcourse you don't have bargaining power! Bring the elephants, the zebras, the hippopotamuses, the rhinoceroses, etc. with you and negotiate through the position of power, in that case you have more to bargain with.
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Speaking about balance of power, that is what we don't have! Legion is the sole power by a great extent without even a coalition to rival it. This state is called "hegemony" where no matter what we do, we are already under their hard power and soft power. The theory is true: they take advantage of everyone because everyone is weak and divided. This is what's been proposed: to enter an agreement with them at this condition. The solution is we work on establishing balance of power through unity or multilateral engagement so we have more power diplomatically. Balancing your international relations means representing your interest and neutrality, not bowing down to soft power!
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7 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:
So why should any org battle with Legion when they can make an agreement, or even join ranks?
Negotiating with them from the position of weakness and division will only cost you your sovereignty, integrity, and independence, as you will be negotiating with the lack of bargaining power. Neutral organizations/people should exercise neutral foreign policy to remain neutral, otherwise you give in to their soft power in which you fall under their influence via diplomacy. How should you manage your diplomacy with Legion? By engaging them multilaterally, or forming a union and engaging them bilaterally, maintaining the balance of power, and investing in military for deterrence, so you will be able to project your power more in international relations.
The point of hard power is to influence someone. The use of soft power is to the same end. I would rather that you shoot me than to give in to soft power! I came from a culture where honor is more important!
Why should you go to war? To act in resistance! Diplomatic solution only works when there is a term that everyone agrees with, or you are surrendering and therefore agreeing to the unfavorable term!
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Let me remind everyone that this is a Kickstarter MMO where we were offered innovative concepts/ideas that are not yet proven and it is up to the backers(donors) and investors whether or not to take the risk. NQ has been developing this game mostly from the technical standpoint, falling short on input from user's standpoint. Does the tech work? I can say that it does (maybe it's a "maybe" for some), but is the game good gameplay-wise? You see, you have to give enough considerations to the game-design! Aside from the tech, their proposed game-design is also not yet proven. That is why you should put them to the test and make tweaks/revisions along the way and also consider specific already-proven designs from other successful MMOs, to deliver, in the end, a good working gameplay.
Why does the economy not work? Because you're unproven design is not working! A Sandbox MMO with no in-game progression gives you no "purpose" so the MMO has no economic driver! Leave that expectation to the players and make it all player-driven? What is there to expect? The productive society in real-life is producing because of natural requirements. A completely player-driven game with no natural intervention and has a working economy and development is a fantasy and does not work even in theory. The mean-goal is the resources; the end-goal is the objective. The only objective I can think of in this game is building. Why do you build? Exactly! It's only essence is aesthetics. To build, all for the purpose of getting more resources that serve no purpose but to get more resources, is what a mammon does, not what an objective person does! The game has no objective (aside from aesthetics) as it is completely player-driven! The game has no gameplay-loop but maybe it works for roleplaying, but then again building in the game is complicated and unproductive.
On 8/8/2021 at 9:15 AM, CptLoRes said:The potential is enormous.
The potential is enormous for people who do not see the feasibility of the proposed game-design! I was one of those people, and now I'm starting to realize things now that I am playing that game. I played many MMORPGs (both traditional and modern) to have developed my personal preference on game-design and mechanics, and this game is just not "fun" and "good" for me in so many ways. For example, the passive skill system: the point of a skill system is to serve as an activity for character development. If you make it passive, then you take away that activity for us to do, and then you also made it time-based adding to the frustration. What happens when you join the game late or you are not training as time lapses? You have less skill points! It's not a reasonable design for an MMO and not a popular one!
I have taken a backseat and I hope (without deluding myself) that this game get's things right, and for that to happen, they need to change a lot of the game-design and mechanics, and may highly likely also need to limit the game, to mirror feasibility and player experience, completely wipe it out, and rerelease it to save the game, even if those hardcores complain. Ascent: Infinite Realm was completely overhauled to Elyon Online. This is what this game needs to do -- overhaul the game!
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Right now, the biggest problem in this game is you lack players and this is continuing to dwindle! Nobody is blogging about politics in this game because #1. it's limited to the command type, #2. there is lack of activity.
I quitted this game to blog about politics in real-life! There is nothing for me to blog about this game, it's dead!
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You know why people couldn't care less about politics in this game? Because organizations in this game are autocratic and totalitarian. Systems in real-life have evolved to be more equitable and liberal, and what kind of system do you exercise in this game? The old dynastic system during the feudal pre-globalized period with a class system! Some rulers are able to preserve this tradition today such as Brunei for example. Before Brunei was reduced to a small country it is today, it actually was a powerful thalassocracy! Sarawak, Sabah, western parts of Mindanao (including Sulu islands), southern part of Luzon, parts of Kalimantan, Belitung island, Mindoro, and Palawan, were all parts of Brunei through it's influence. They lost all those territories when the Westerners colonized Southeast Asia and the Bruneian monarch became a British protectorate. This empire is able to survive today with 500K population and small territory ruled by a sultan as the absolute monarch without any distinction between the wealth of the country and wealth of the sultanate. The world has changed so much today yet you still structure organizations in this game like we are still in the feudal period! Your system doesn't bear any semblance to the modern system and standard we have today in the real world! Why would the public care about the politics in this game if they can't influence it at all because there is no representative government in this game? We are not constituents, we are just subjects to your rule!
I couldn't care less about the politics in this game because there is no democracy at all and the absence of quality politicians! Politics in this game is a joke! I mean look at the RDMS, it is structured for absolute monarchy because the legates have all the power (the RDMS is a command structure). You know what happens when the people completely lost it's trust in the government (or the system)? They will go on people power movement such as what happened in Libya, the Philippines, and Myanmar, or worse, violent rebellion, to instigate change. The people here have the power to influence the system (without their cooperation, it doesn't work in the first place). Sure, you introduced organization and RDMS in this game in physical form, but they are built for command!
The politics in this game is a feudal de facto one! I have yet to see a developed official political system that gives power to the people! And the masses in this game is a dumb *ss! They don't even know their rights! How can you have good politics if the masses have slave mentality? How can I form a voting bloc if the rest of you are slaves? How can I represent you in the congress if you don't wanna be represented at all?
You know, even Yakuza holds an election, do you know that?
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You see how people in this game think? They want the Beijing Daxing International Airport, a single terminal airport with annual capacity of 75 million passengers. If you can predict that you will eventually run out of capacity in the coming future due to projected increase of demand, that is when you build another terminal and/or runway (this is called "airport expansion"). A terminal like that with 7 runways is designed to handle 75 million passengers annually and we don't have a demand in this game that come even close to that! So why would you build something that big when there is no requirement? Stop thinking too big and think realistically!
My proposal is you keep these big cores (just so the possibilities are there), but you add liability mechanics to them. If they are being used economically, then that is an indication that it is an asset, otherwise it's a liability. There is an economics to it! You gonna nerf these big cores big!
The reason why we are not being economical at all is the game lacks a properly balanced liability mechanics! This guy wants a 1 km ship: you know how much of a liability that is in real-life? He will consider this if the liability is right there.
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1 hour ago, Aaron Cain said:
Just need the promised dynamic cores that were going to be over a km.
Frigates in real-life are warships that are built with endurance of 30 ~ 50 days (without replenishment) for deep-water (offshore) patrolling, hence their bigger size of 350 ~ 450 feet compare to a corvette. A dynamic construct that is over a kilometer in length is 10 times longer than a frigate in real-life! Suppose we build a frigate in this game the size of a frigate in real-life, what is the point of it's size if we barely even have any requirement for such capacity? In this game, we see only a maximum of around 4 people travelling on a large core ship! A frigate the size of real-life is already too big for only 4 people that doesn't need any accommodation at all, even more 10x of that size! If you are gonna make something big, there has to be a requirement for such capacity, and in this game, there is little requirement! The sh*t that we build are too big for their use! One person in this game built a 75-story building when just a unit in it is good enough for him! What is the use? It just looks abandoned to me! You are building something that has too much capacity for the requirement!
We are too ambitious and the game is too ambitious! You gonna limit the game, because at this point, it is just unrealistic! A 1 km (1000 meter) ship? For what? You are thinking too big! You will struggle designing that ship as there is barely any requirement in the game! Modern frigates in real-life can complement a crew of between 110 ~ 150 at endurance of 30 to 50 days without replenishment, hence the size of the ship. And you want what? 10x the size of this?
It's time we be a little more realistic!
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10 hours ago, Agilulf said:
Maybe the current player base isn't interested in politics
You support a politician or a party because you see them as an asset to you. What is this AC? Do you think I give a sh*t about them?
The moderators here have warned me about discussing real-life politics so I can't use an example here (based on real-life) of how politics hinder development.
What is your platform and why should the public give a f**k? Are you delivering on your promises? Are you performing your responsibilities? Are you performing based on competence? Are you even doing public service or are you just there to cling to power? AC has no election, so it is a totalitarian organization with a ruling class that has absolute power.
The public learns about politics through media, and you know I'm the biggest critic of bias medias (again, I'm not gonna give you real-life examples because of the forum rules). I don't believe that there is something you call a "neutral" media because they all have an opinion about something. They use this "neutral media" excuse to monopolize the media. If you have an opinion about something--and everyone does--you are not "neutral", so stop deceiving people! In this age, the media is no longer controlled by the giant mass medias, and there are now smaller independent news sources because the barrier-to-entry when it comes to publishing has been made more accessible! If you have an opinion about politics, then do state it, but do not ever call yourself "neutral" because that is not fair! There is no neutral news! What the public has to do is listen to all sources with opposing political opinions and make the judgement themselves! What you don't want to do is to listen to one source and be influenced by it! When some so-called "neutral" social media platforms took political side in some country and banned some politician's account, you deny people rights to press freedom, and therefore it is not liberal! They should not be able to operate legally on a country that proud itself with democracy! But raising issues such as press freedom, you are just gonna call me a "woke", even though this is a serious problem!
I'm not interested about the politics in this game as they all lack the quality, but news about them will have to come from player-driven media sources with their opinions, and players are free to debate in-game politics! I don't buy this "neutral news" bull sh*t!
This AC, in my opinion, is a useless organization! You are gonna ask for support and then you don't give anything back? A bunch of "patrons"! ("Patron", based on Spanish history, is a powerful religious leader receiving support from patronizers) Don't compare yourself to Joe Biden, you patron!
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Bro, in real-life, we have needs such as housing, transportation, energy, food, water, clothing, sanitation, health, and many more. These are necessities and this is what motivated us to continue to contribute to the development and advancement of our society. You wouldn't work if you have no necessities! So these are the demands that production has to meet! Now it just takes common-sense to figure out that if you throw us into a completely player-driven open-world with no set objective (other than to set our own, which there is none), there is no motivation for activity other than to just have fun building in this game that really has no purpose. If the PVP (a PVP with no progression mechanics) is that motivation for activity, this is a dictatorship game! It's just a number's game! If there is no character progression for the PVP, then the point of the game is to dominate the game with your group. I observed this in other similar MMOs: if you can't beat them, you join them. This is not a game for character development because it's very hard in this game to assert your personal interest. This is a group-based game as the point of the game is the PVP with no character progression. It is a number's game!
If you are used to this kind of gameplay, I'm not, and many are not, and that is why this game is failing to attract long-term dedicated players! Explain to me how the economy of Eve works because I just couldn't fathom how it works! What is driving the economy in Eve that defines the gameplay of that game? This better not be a group-based game! I'm not used to--and many are not used to--that kind of gameplay!
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This game wants us to build a company. Do that in real-life and you'll know how hard it is to work with people (even with your own relatives)! The lesson is it's not easy to work with people!
My proposal is to let the people build solo and let them become a proprietor themselves. If they need to work with people, they will enter into a proprietor-to-proprietor partnership agreement informally, and with the wall. I own this and it will be on my name because I own this; you own that and it will be on your name because you own that. The wall is right there! That is the most basic way of working with people without the disputes, commitment, and inequity that we are incapable of solving. How can a group settle this problem? You got a court? We don't even have a player-driven reputation system because we are incompetent idiots! And now you want us dumb apes to build a company? We can't settle the problems so I need protection! It's simple: name what I own under my avatar and not under an org. An org doesn't exists physically, so who has power to set rights? The legates have power to issue privilege! (not rights, as it is not the same thing) So do you think I'm this stupid and I will just join an org knowing the risk?
The problem is this is designed to be a player-driven free-for-all group-oriented game with no way to protect individual interests!
This is not a game for me. They wanted to offer an unlimited game and it turned out to be an anarchy! That is what a free-for-all game is! I prefer limiting the game to bring some order to it! Leave it all player-driven? That is anarchy, and it will only end up as such, because we are incompetent!
So yeah, we set the ambition too high and we gonna limit the game!
LEGION has won DU
in General Discussions
Posted
The biggest problem in this game in my opinion is they made it a free-for-all. The game is entirely player-driven and they designed the game structurally to be group-based. This means that we need to function as a society and interact with each other for particular purposes/activity. This kind of environment is more akin to real-life than typical MMORPGs -- it's highly competitive because the game is completely liberalized. A game that puts us in complete liberty, and then at the same time we have to cooperate, we are forced to be a part of society that is in nature will always be hierarchal. Social rank defines how much control we have in our society. We all want participation because that is what gives us purpose, and apparently you have to fight for that status in what is a hierarchal world.
If you think construct vs construct PVP is a big problem, it is not because the game offers protection from it. My problem is the whole game is completely liberalized except for violence and it is just not fun because it is highly competitive for a game. I've played other traditional MMORPGs during the golden age and I've never experienced a game as liberal as this. Now that I did, it is a frustrating experience! Literally you took the complex social problems that we have in real-life into the game by completely liberalizing it!
I don't need to play Starbase to learn what I have learned here.