SGCamera_Beta

This update is essentially a cap on "global" industry (there is a limit to the number of schematics produceable by the population), and a soft cap on individual industry (a limit to the number of schematic training slots, and cash/willpower in buying in extra schematics).
 
Some good points:
Removing schematics for many items and some limited (but not all) elements will reduce some of the tedium. Will allow NQ to balance the economy in different ways in contrast to the current just schematic prices. (Inert comment about autominers.) Some bad points (i.e. needs a QoL pass):
Tedium of eternally loading batches of schematics into the machines (and finding the machines). Tedium of eternally needing to purchase/deliver schematics from markets (self-producing won't be enough, unless you heavily alt-up). A few times counts as gameplay, eternally makes it another daily chore eventually. Not fun on top of calibrations.  
@Gottchar's suggestion in Discord is that schematics could be auto-distributed to the relevant industry unit in a factory from a central location. This could be the unit that produces an individual's schematics. This would reduce the distribution tedium, as well enable group play when players notice "oh we are low on schematic X" and then proceeds to resolve this.

Please, pretty please.. provide an offline codex or at least the scripting section. It's HTML anyway so should not be that hard ..
 
having to go in and out of the in game one is not very nice.

Basically:
Whoever makes the bigger decisions doesn’t see proper player markets or any other of the many ideas on the subject as priority.
Nicodemus thought he can help out by doing something that he can do almost by himself, with little need for any coders, game or asset designers to do anything, as he is pretty much just using the ingame assets, ingame mechanics, his GM tool set, and does nothing that could impact the economy. 
If you think "I could have done this" or "this has been done before", that is because you are right, one guy can do this, just that when Nicodemus does it and it is in the patchnotes it actually draws a crowd.
 
I see this as a "better than nothing" solution by one guy, while the rest of NQ does, erm, I dont know what.

Thank you very much.
With this change, the Patch will be a small, but real improvement instead of a downgrade for our org.
 
But a few things we really need when the patch comes:
folders for the construct list on the map (so you can finally organize the constructs, will be increasing map-performance, if the construct list of a folder is only loaded when the folder is opened) a counter for your own personal constructs (so you can see how close you are to the limit) a counter for the org constructs (can be only seen by legates/superlegates) constructs are not abandoned when the limit is not high enough. You just can't place new ones (otherwise many constructs will be abandoned long before the players will have leveled the skills for that)

maybe we could have avoided the panic if there was a player council that ideas would be bounced off of. 

Sorry, but this is just the next iteration of "we heard you"
 
There is nothing substantial in this post, it does not commit to anything and just reiterates how NQ has failed to listen (which is not the same as hearing in case you wonder) to what their community is telling them.
 
That hey seem to think that much changed from Alpha is frankly very funny as they have just continued their attitude and ways from there with little to no change, that they seem to think or try to make the claim they did is probably the most worrying aspect of this post.
 
The proof wil be in the pudding here but based on the many previous attempts by NQ to spin their mistakes and shortfalls by not really taking ownership but pretend they will does not give me much hope for change.. But we'll see

As someone who played a lot with screens (even made a UI library around that), I understand the issues with updating them all the time, but I also feel the new tech is not the way to go and is definitely a step backwards instead.
 
What I honestly think could be done is understand WHY people keep spamming the setHTML method instead:
Currently, whenever we need to update any information on the screen, the only option we have is to update the entire thing, which indeed, costs lots of bandwidth and overhead, specially since sometimes all we need is to update one or other information. Some ideas that could improve on the way things work today:
 
Use templates to decouple the screen's SVG/HTML from data:
Introduces two new functions: screen.setTemplateCode(template_code) and screen.setTemplateData(variable, value)
It would work similar to how web templates/frameworks work, the first function would be an HTML/SVG template in syntax similar to Twig/Handlebars where we would set the heavier part of things, while the second function would be passing the variable data to that template, which would be combined and rendered as HTML on the client.

So, for example, let's say we have this template code: 
<p>Hello, {{name}}!</p>
We would only call the setTemplateCode function once with this content and then call setTemplateData('name', 'Wolfram') to set the variable values, which in that case would be rendered on the client as:
<p>Hello, Wolfram!</p>
With that we wouldn't need to keep sending over the HTML all the time, since we could only update a single value instead, this would be extremely helpful with larger HTML or SVG pieces.
 
Note that the setTemplateCode function should have some sort of limit, maybe running once every 15s, so that people look for smarter ways of updating stuff, by using the setTemplateData function instead.

Here's my peace to add to this. Comrad's post brings up issues, but this is his final post.
 
He's been here since the beginning and this is his end. So, instead of a legacy of his final post being about issues, let me recount some of what he did.
 
He was there at the early start of the game. He was active on the forums, paving the way of discussion in the community. Comrad was invited to be apart of ATV, to be apart of this social game and the social aspects of this community. He made an org, a notch to call home for some time, before stepping up into greater aspects of the community. To be present in the time of memes(CSYN undoubtedly) and to be there at the end of others.
 
Comradmoco has helped this community greatly. He helped out and along with yamamushi helped make the Discord a community unlike any other in its hayday.
 
I must tell you all, Comradmoco has spent a great many numbers of hours helping out this community. The official discord, of which he has invested probably thousands of hours, is only the tip of the iceberg.
 
So, with all this in mind, I bid you farewell Comrad! May you find a greater project than this one to jump to o7

Sup DUveans,

Just stopping by here to say my final farewell to everyone here, in discord, and in game that I had the privilege to be acquainted with or some, to even call friends. 

I had a blast being along side everyone of you these past 7 years, watching this community grow from literally 0 members to a whopping 50,000+ of you. I had many fond memories building premature alliances, making in game hostile moves, watching orgs rise and fall, overall, nerding-out over every aspect of Dual Universe.

However, all good things must come to an end. I'm sad to say but due to recent announcements and the overall direction of community aspect of Dual Universe is partaking, per say, I must state my farewell from the community and Dual Universe completely (as a player and as Moderator, in Discord and other platforms). At this point, I'm not enjoying being part of a community that's not being nourished at its fullest or been ignored for so long. (That's just the tip of the iceberg) Regardless, I leave on good terms, hope you all have fun, wishing the best to everyone and Novaquark (Here's hoping for a fast recovery, community-wise) 


As always,
Catch everyone on the flip, but most importantly; Have Fun!

Remember: Comfort: is the enemy of progress
 
o7

A classic case of vision getting in the way of good game design (also known as fun). This is a post about what civilization is / can be in Dual Universe, and perhaps what went wrong. Before diving in, here are some of my assumptions:
 - JC is a scientist, not a game designer
 - JC is a micromanager
 - JC does not want to listen to his devs (some of which worked for Ubisoft and know a thing or two about good game design and mechanics)
 - Because of the assumption above, I also assume there's a degree of conflict between devs and JC
 - I assume a lot might change up to release since this is a beta, but something tells me... not really, given the track record so far of very good ideas being thrown away or not listened to (classic examples include bot market orders screwup in beta, this was talked about extensively by Blazemonger and a slew of other people in the community, was completely ignored, and the results are clear)

Lets get the whole "but it's a beta" shtick out of the way... if you can't, just pretend that you can.
 
To the point:

The game suffers from very bad game design choices. My stance is, if this game was really about civilization building, the mechanics of the game would be very different than they are now. What is civilization?
organization of individuals into social bodies due to selective pressures characteristics of civilization include: social structure and hierarchy, efficiency, work organization, supply of needs, development of more efficient technologies selective pressures that create civilization include, but are not limited to: resource shortage, non-uniform resource distribution, geography, weather, proximity to neighboring civilizations, war, dangerous environment, dangerous neighbors  
I'm sure a lot of you have seen (or were part of groups that tried to build) cities in DU. Some have actually done so. The problem is, they are completely useless and empty. They look nice, there was tremendous effort in making them, but they are completely nonfunctional because no one needs to be in a city. And that is due to the fact that there really are no selective pressures for civilization at all. There is no reason to be in a group because there is no danger. There is no scarcity of distribution of regular ore. We have safezones on all planets, and a big giant safezone around three planets. Why would anyone live in a city? There are no "white-collar" and "service" game mechanics that characterize cities.
DU has no danger element at all (even in pvp zone, if you don't fly in the pipe, you're pretty much golden) DU has no progressive tech tree DU has no progression, it has quanta gates for elements that anyone can acquire and use given they have the quanta for it I can go on, but for an analysis of "civilization" just read this discord post: https://discord.com/channels/184691218184273920/304455542162587649/80629454165311491
I know this is wishful thinking at this point, but DU would be much better off with actual game design:
Better Talent System: scrap the Eve talents system (some things should really not be copied), instead have a tech progression tree where you unlock technologies you can use. And have the skill grow based on your activity in the game, not a set amount of points per hour. It's gamey , it's simple, it's fun, it's very intuitive. And you can always add more tech to the tree indefinitely as the game grows. This will allow whole orgs to gravitate towards a direction in the tech tree so we actually get diversity in org playing styles. For example, one org can develop their pvp armadas with ballistics (machine guns, gattling guns, big bertha weapons), another org might focus their armada pvp tech research into laser or electonic warfare. The same can go with unlocking building technologies. The same can go for politics and leadership styles within an org. Have it all be a research tree. There are countless ways of adding diversity and different paths to a game using this mechanic instead of the Eve Talent Points system. Safe Zones: seriously.. is Sanc Moon not enough? The game lacks any danger and people just stop playing because of tedium and burn out. You won't believe how hard it is to convince people to gather into PVP events in this game because they're just too bored of it, it has zero consequence. Sanc moon is a sanctuary moon. That is its purpose. Better Consequences: This game has the wrong consequences. What seems to be happening is a bunch of nerfing to create more consequences in the game, such as talk about nerfing linked container distance, brakes, mining, this whole permadamage to elements, etc. How about actual danger, not the tedium of fixing and replacing parts? How about lowering the cost of building guns and ammo? Halfing most of the voxel HP? How about designing the game so that more people can get into pvp easier, and if they lose, the cost isn't too great that they are discouraged from ever trying it again? JC should actually listen to his devs and game designer (if he has one): lets face it, economists, mathmeticians, scientists, or whoever NQ may or may not consult about their game.. they are not playing the game. WE ARE. What we are witnessing is the result of the disconnect between how gamers play and how JC thinks a game should run. And it is our wallets that are paying. This means JC should listen to his devs. This means JC should really hire a game designer, they are a rare species and it's difficult to find a good one, but if you do, please listen to that person. JC may know stuff about robotics, but as I see it, he has no clue about human psychology, especially gamer psychology.
My rant is over. Catch me outside how bout dat.

I do not think anyone is toxic here but unbridled positivity and blind faith is dangerous as it will actually blind you to the facts.
 
The pattern NQ is in does not lie, their behavior is very predictable and has been the same since pre-alpha. many of us backers have been pointing that out for a long time and many who scolded us, called us toxic and negative have now pretty much left or given up for the exact reasons we always said they would.
 
The promise of DU is massive and it's potential to be great is certainly there. IMO though, NQ will not be able to make that promise a reality, not because the people actually working on the game are incapable but because from what I see, those that set the course and make the decisions lack a sense of reality. If your CEO and creative director does not see anything that would indicate that the game will not be ready for release by the end of 2021 while these red flags are glaringly obvious, how is he ever going to be able to make the choices and decisions needed to make the game work and get to "release" within 9 months from now OR have the understanding and realism to reset and rearrange the roadmap?
 
I for one would _really_ appreciate it if NQ found some courage somewhere and was able to say "we misjudged our ability to build the game we set out to build in the time we though it would take on the 2nd version of the roadmap. We need to rethink this and will soon present what we believe is a more realistic way forward". That alone would suddenly create so much space for them to really sit down and work this out instead of having to force feed "we must do all this by the end of the year". But it all feels like everything is driven by an extremely small and tight budget that forces a release by the end of the year for a fighting chance to survive. And that can only lead to one thing; NQ may tick all the boxes on what they say will be coming in this year but it wil be a buggy mess and only partially implemented. 
 
They will bring 0.24 with a very rudimentary version of the mission system, tick the box on the launcher page and that's it for 2021.. mission system done to not be revisited until after release because there simply is no time.
 
NQ got cold feet doing the new biomes because they are scared shitless regarding losing the little player base they have if they wipe for that to come in. So they just promise to bring a whole new solar system compete with star gates and all on top of everything else they need to do before release. The next big hurdle will be power management on planets as it will mean nearly the same as the biomes, entire bases will need to be moved and rebuilt unless NQ manipulates the way they assign this arbitrary value to tiles to "randomly" see the big org bases having been built on tiles that just happen to have sufficient energy output.
 
It's what you get when you try and sell a game which is hardly Alpha as a Beta and make promises you must know will be extremely limiting to your ability to actually develop the game. Setting the expectation that you will not wipe unless you _really_ have to and word it so vaguely that many take it as " we will not wipe" is just plan bad management of both expectations and your own ability to do your work. And again, it all points to being ins a situation where you need the revenue to survive.
 
And yes, I do expect we will start to see NQ cut cost (and corners) in the coming months.. As is usual the case in such situations, the support structure will be first to go so expect to see direct support by NQ on Discord go away for instance and NQ will start to lean on "community helpers" more and more as they are not on the payroll so it's a free workforce.
 
 

Dear NQ, 
 
Please for the love Quanta, please increase the copy/paste size limits. 
 
It is the single most annoying aspect of build large ships. 
 
Love, 
Wadiss. xoxo

I seriously don't understand why NQ insists on destroying the ability for the market to stabilize. So we had bots buying ore , then the bots slowly got eaten away and people started trading ore with each other again. Prices were beginning to stabilize in the upper teens , then bam without warning suddenly the bots refill their orders today. Everyone buys out the lower orders and sells to the bots and we are right back to everyone dumping ore to the magical bot orders.
 
How in the world do you ever expect any player market stability to form when you insist on a whim destroying whatever pricing has stabilized. Not to mention the fact that you make it even harder for producers to acquire ore in bulk because everyone is selling it to bots. No one knows your bot plan , so I'm certainly not going to post buy orders above the bots , because for all I know if I wait a week or two you won't refresh them and then I will have bought a bunch of ore at twice the going rate.
 
I mean seriously where is the common sense that your haphazard bot orders are unhealthy to the game world. At least if you said "we are permanently having bots buy these ores at this price" we could actually plan around that. Same would hold true if you said "after this batch of bot orders there will never be bots buying ore again". You don't however communicate any of this with the player base. This paralyzes the markets because producers cannot properly plan pricing , traders risk at buying and selling products is forever at risk at the carpet being pulled out from under them.
 
I mean truly , you have central bank like power with these bot orders and apparently none of the common sense that would generally be required of people in those positions. No one knows what your doing, no one can anticipate when you'll wave your hand and completely unhinge the market again. Seriously , please treat the player base with some respect and either tell us your plans with the bots or just remove them and let the players actually control the market without your random sledge hammer bots.
 
  
 
 

Wth are those operations xD
+5% on 4000l is 5(4000/100)=200 so 4200l total.
 

I'm somewhat surprised you do not have a lot of data from the game on this already to be honest
 
It's not about what's planned for the future, that seems to be a consistent and chronic mistake NQ keeps making. While I do not want to suggest I speak for anyone but myself here but I think what many of us are looking for is for NQ to acknowledge the sentiment and ideas we have, beyond "great idea, I will pass it on". Also there is a lot of issues in game that seem to be either buried somewhere deep in the developers todo list with no visibility at all as to what is on the table and how that is expected to play out. Reports of bugs and issues get stuck in the CS queue and seem to not ever reach the dev team.
 
We were told a bug trackers was being implemented which would give us some way of seeing what is being worked on but that never happened. The Upvote page is IMO a failed attempt at creating the idea NQ is looking for our input as it mostly reflects the planned work and seems to have more or less been adopted as a sort of roadmap replacement. NQ has _a lot_ of stuff they say they wil be bringing into the game this next 10 or so months and there is maybe more to fix, optimize and polish for the game to get to a point where it can be given a "release" label. NQ has done nothing to show that all of this will happen and frankly, from just the list of what is to come anyone with a small amount of understanding of this process knows that a release at the end of this year is not going to happen unless some serious corners get cut. Yet, the last we heard was from JC saying "I see nothing that would be a red flag regarding a release on schedule (which means end of 2021)" and honestly, that remark alone is to me a massive red flag for exactly that.
 
Where is the referral program? Why is the website still not reliable with regards to what players have bought in for? Why is there still a lot of inconsistency on  how the same function is handled in different places in game? Why are models that have been bugged for months stil not fixed How are Talents not reworked to match new ways of how the game works? many are pointless and a waste of training time. SOme even cause their effect to be negative and work against the player. Why does NQ not come out with a clear message, in writing to once and for all outline the way forward. SO many players are confused about NQ's vision, so many have expectations which from my perspective are entirely unrealistic. Already we hear a lot of players saying "a big update is coming soon because JC said there will be an update early 2021". The amount of conflicting and contradictory information is massive. One day the big PVP changes will come not in the next update but likely the one after that.. Then two weeks later the PVP overhaul is planned for "early 2021" What is NQ's intended release schedule for patches? once every two months? per quarter? per 6 months? I mean there must be a plan there, it would be really bad at this point if there isn't and NQ just makes it up along the way.  
A great example of the disconnect between NQ and the game is a recent tweet by JC about elements de-spawning. While his reasoning is fair in general game design context, he entirely missed the point that this refers to items despawning while you  are literally standing next to it or you are just 30-40 meters away and only certain elements just disappear. NQ does not play their own game as they are not seeing a number of blatant and obvious issues. No amount of saying "we have weekly game time" will make that impression go away as the facts and the way NQ responds to issues tells a very different story.
 
I do not expect NQ to tell all or commit to an exact timeline, I understand that is both unrealistic and unreasonable. But I would like to see an end to the inconsistent and unreliable information coming from NQ.
 
My concern is that while you and the other members of the CM team clearly are trying and working hard to make improvements (which is appreciated), the image we see is that your work and efforts pretty much ends at the next step up and does not progress much, if at all, from there.
 
The game has much potential and hold great promise but NQ is, as the title of this thread says, IMO the factor holding it back.

The simple answer to the problem is that its a game and the scaling is different from real life.  Therefore people's expectations are too high.
 
The better answer is that we don't have large enough wing elements in order to support heavy-lift aircraft.  We really need Large and XL wing elements.  Thrust doesn't define the carry capacity of an aircraft, lift from it's airfoils does.  Yes, you do need thrust to move forward and counteract the drag from the airfoils, but thrust does not directly cause lift.

Hello.
 
I made a OCR parser bot for Dual Universe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUtrZ5NDXus
The program automatically grabs all the orders data from the DU markets.
OCR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_character_recognition
 
I don't have the reverse-engineering knowledge to use memory access or packets intercepting, so I had to settle with OCR.
Because it's OCR, I would need to purchase a new computer able to run DU in order to automate the data collection.
 
If data collection was running 24/7,  there could be a website with the market information and history.
I've made this website for a game I work on: https://stonks.gg/product/BOOSTER_COOKIE
 
For now I plan on waiting for an official API from DU before setting up a website.
Just wanted to share the creation, I had fun making it and maybe someone out there is interested.

This is my opinion.

NQ wants this to be a community game. They want folks to play together and build relationships.
 
We are building relationships... in Discord. We can't build relationships ***In Game*** because the communication tools in game are awful.  This is, IMnsHO, the single biggest mistake that NQ has made, and is continuing to make.
 
If they want this to be a community building game, then they need to provide the communication tools to actually build communities. This includes mission terminals, player market terminals, etc but it also includes, threaded chat, tags, filtered customization chat tabs, in game email, ship hailing, and proximity voice. Without these, we are alone in game, and together in Discord.

For me, this is the most important missing feature:
We need a way for a creator to be able to transfer their “creatorship” to another player/org. Not only that, but there should be an RDMS flag for editing DRM protected Lua on a construct.  Our use case is that we have a number of Lua developers in our org who work collaboratively on a ships code.  With the current state, and proposed solutions, we'd need to make every developer a legate, or remove DRM altogether in order to work the way we have.  

Funny enough that was the reason the game didn't have creative mode in the first place.
 
I think creative mode is a mistake and solves a problem that they created with yet another mistake.

Oh...right.  I was all excited about the talent reset but had forgotten how terrible buying them back is...

Let me be very clear that I really appreciate and respect your willingness to be here, listen and forward feedback which I have no doubt you actually do.
The issue starts on the next step up from CM though as it has by now become very clear that that feedback does not generally go anywhere and if it does end up in the right inbox.. it stays there.
 
What NQ seems to not get is that responding to feedback, whichever way you decide on it, is as important as "hearing" it. I can absolutely get that what is suggested/requested is just not possible or planned for a later stage. The trick of communication is to bring that response back (to us) and the latter really does not happen.

Oh...right.  I was all excited about the talent reset but had forgotten how terrible buying them back is...

Hey JC, do you actually play your own game?
 
How much of your castle did you manufacture yourself?
 
How much of the materials for your castle did you mine yourself?
 
Have you ever mined T5? How much T5? Did you feel that mining T5 was enjoyable?

Wonderful, now the people with billions in the bank will get even richer as they will be able to still have a whole factory producing everything and this change will mean very little if anything to them where as the little people who didn't game the system early release will get the shaft /golfclap