Armedwithwings

After this mornings huge screwup and bot prices were reduced 100x, I've seen screenshots of 10s of billions in schematics, and have heard of people who bought items at the bugged prices and resold to players who made hundreds of millions in a few minutes. When is this getting rolled back?
 
At this point it is probably too late to just reverse the market transactions. People are trying to hide the money in ore or moving it around, so the only way to catch it all is to rollback. If you just remove the schematics and return the money, you screw over all the people who had their buy orders filled and the people who sold them bugged items get to keep all that money. The longer it takes to rollback, the more annoyed people will be, so probably best done sooner rather than later.
 
I won't speak for everyone, but if people are allowed to keep these items, or the money they got from selling them, then I'm personally moving on to different games. There is no reason to play if someone who logs in for 5 minutes at the right time makes more progress than others who have been playing for months.

Consindering "asteroid mining" incoming relativly soon (and whole balancing it brings)... I wonder, what is actual situation with ore on planets? And wanted to propose to consolidate our empyrical observations (your/of your friends/org mates) and general thoughts.
 
Here is mine:
 
T1:
Still abundant almost everyhere. Even with current T1 "burning" to bots player population seems to be too small (and dropped even smaller) to seriously damage T1 supply in next several months. 
 
T2 
OK. With ocasional traces of someone else mining (on more popular planets), usualy its not that hard to find ore just next tile. Will last awhile.
 
T3 (beyond SZ):
Depends -- on ore and planet. Not as easy as at begining, there is obvious "cleared" patches, even in "worst" cases still doable with some scanning and patience. May be hot thing for asteroids eventualy.
 
T4-T5 (beyond SZ):
Overall -- bad, yet again -- depends on ore. Some are totaly non-economical to mine (immense time waste to find even negligible quantity), others -- still possible, but detiorating every day. We need asteroids with them on idea of risk-reward.
 
 
While may sound cruel to some, I think mineble asteroids must be 100% in PvP zone (especialy T1-T2-T3), because at least some "ore pressure", coupled with (eventualy) impoved PvP (both for attack and DEFENCE) -- only way to produce natural specialization, dynamics and gameplay-loops. And probably important way for DU survive until release and territory warfare as game with some activity.
 
Also, most importantly, for a change NQ need to be careful with new feature and not outright generate mega-nodes or other radical things. Just try concept with smaller nodes and observe/collect data how it will roll live with people mining and fighting around -- then, if something not good -- add more. Because otherwise I can almost predict classical NQ fail-cringe, when they "by mistake" generate 3 kk nodes of T5s and someone fast and furious ("big org") grab it without any opposition and everyone else grumpy forever. Generaly I super-suspicious of NQ repeating 1st week errors again. Wery little of confidence in their disign judgement left. 
 
Your thoughts?
 
 

This game does not have enough content to support this current update. The idea was a correct step but executed prematurely. 
 
This game has a lot of potential. Was really enjoying it with groups of friends that havent found a common game to play in a very long time. 
 
Its a shame really but this patch just took the wind out of the sails.. 
The only solice of content was the ability to make creative builds. There really wasnt much else going on. 
 
On top of this from what I have seen in response to this update is that developers are not listening to their player base. Which i see as detrimental and destructive to the future of the game. Ive seen this path travelled many times. 
 
I understand that it is your vision to create. But there is always the customer to consider. 
 
Personally I would of considered this patch or better yet a (different concept to create the same effect) but much further when there was more foundation support it. Like more content in general. 
 
Best of luck with your future aspects of the game. Don't turn deaf ears to your players. Perhaps i will check back on this game sometime in the future. 

"God forbid anyone from making progress without having to go through some sort of paywall"
 
So here's the thing, me and the guys are a small org that go on trips, mine everything we need and manufacture our own items
We didn't hang around the market areas nor buy any essentials cause honestly trading doesn't concern us.
So why NQ out of the blue is forcing us to be traders in order to do basic industry stuff?
You want a living , breathing economy like EVE but you have to understand that unlike that game our income sources are quite limited.
There are no PVE related missions/elements so our only gateway to make quanta is essentially through the market.
Basically you are forcing a playstyle on us that we don't really want to follow here...

"God forbid anyone from making progress without having to go through some sort of paywall"
 
So here's the thing, me and the guys are a small org that go on trips, mine everything we need and manufacture our own items
We didn't hang around the market areas nor buy any essentials cause honestly trading doesn't concern us.
So why NQ out of the blue is forcing us to be traders in order to do basic industry stuff?
You want a living , breathing economy like EVE but you have to understand that unlike that game our income sources are quite limited.
There are no PVE related missions/elements so our only gateway to make quanta is essentially through the market.
Basically you are forcing a playstyle on us that we don't really want to follow here...

GG Novaquark.. Loved being a Ruby supporter, but putting more barriers to play with nothing else to do, you killing us...

This is probably one of the worst systems I've ever seen implemented into a game.. Was is designed by a child?

WHY THE HELL are you making Bots the cornerstone of civilization again.. IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING you said about a player driven universe.

How about making the schematics researchable with skills then let players sell schematic loaded factories to other players....

NO MORE BOTS, Please... They ruin everything.

I'm a pretty new player and spent a few weeks getting to grips with the game and finding my way around.  Its taken a long time and a lot of work to build a ship, lots of money repairing after learning to fly through smashing up on Alioth time and time again, and spent hours looking for T3+ ores, which have been totally unsuccessful. Even after 3+ hours each way flying to other planets to hunt, only to find that theyve been stripped bare.
Im not interested in joining an org, I want to play the game as an individual, but this step seems to make it even more impossible for new players to get to grips with Dual universe, and I honestly think that it will totally ruin the game for players like me.  Ive worked really hard to build a small factory to produce a Territory Scanner with ores that Ive laboriously mined, which has taken weeks.Without the ability to generate decent income you are effectively stuck, unable to be able to move forward.  It not even possible  to mine for decent ore to generate income as its been completely hoovered up everywhere.  Wouldnt it be better to somehow impose a levvy on larger factories to limit their output or profits rather than punishing small fry like me?
I still havent been able to afford a warp drive, and building a factory seemed like the only sustainable way to acheive this - so I hope you put things into place to help newbie players, who, by the time they have learned the game will be doomed to a poor, boring life on Alioth & Sanctuary!  And what happens to all the industrial units Ive slowly purchased that I will now need a huge investment to use? I honestly think that I will lose interest, just at a point where I felt I was getting somewhere....... .   .     .        .           .                   .                                             !
 

I wonder if/when I'll get my skill points back from all the skills I invested in under different pretence. Tho maybe watching my factory becoming a pile of rubbish might just be enough and the last drop for me to drop DU until it's final. I thought beta persistence meant that what we build and learn would mean something - now I feel like I've built the worst gimp character that wasted countless hours running around blindfolded in the dark.
 
On top of it all having to buy schematics multiple times at "substantial cost" feels like a slap in the face. One might assume that connected/linked industry might be able to link to a schematics hub, but narp... need to make that nerf a fatality and rip the backbone out Sub-Zero style.
 
At the same time my AGG carrier gets nerfed and is going to crash down - right on my industry junk pile. At least that makes for a good visual representation of what's happening, I guess.
 
 
This DevBlog kinda sounds like a good bye.

"God forbid anyone from making progress without having to go through some sort of paywall"
 
So here's the thing, me and the guys are a small org that go on trips, mine everything we need and manufacture our own items
We didn't hang around the market areas nor buy any essentials cause honestly trading doesn't concern us.
So why NQ out of the blue is forcing us to be traders in order to do basic industry stuff?
You want a living , breathing economy like EVE but you have to understand that unlike that game our income sources are quite limited.
There are no PVE related missions/elements so our only gateway to make quanta is essentially through the market.
Basically you are forcing a playstyle on us that we don't really want to follow here...

"God forbid anyone from making progress without having to go through some sort of paywall"
 
So here's the thing, me and the guys are a small org that go on trips, mine everything we need and manufacture our own items
We didn't hang around the market areas nor buy any essentials cause honestly trading doesn't concern us.
So why NQ out of the blue is forcing us to be traders in order to do basic industry stuff?
You want a living , breathing economy like EVE but you have to understand that unlike that game our income sources are quite limited.
There are no PVE related missions/elements so our only gateway to make quanta is essentially through the market.
Basically you are forcing a playstyle on us that we don't really want to follow here...

"God forbid anyone from making progress without having to go through some sort of paywall"
 
So here's the thing, me and the guys are a small org that go on trips, mine everything we need and manufacture our own items
We didn't hang around the market areas nor buy any essentials cause honestly trading doesn't concern us.
So why NQ out of the blue is forcing us to be traders in order to do basic industry stuff?
You want a living , breathing economy like EVE but you have to understand that unlike that game our income sources are quite limited.
There are no PVE related missions/elements so our only gateway to make quanta is essentially through the market.
Basically you are forcing a playstyle on us that we don't really want to follow here...

"God forbid anyone from making progress without having to go through some sort of paywall"
 
So here's the thing, me and the guys are a small org that go on trips, mine everything we need and manufacture our own items
We didn't hang around the market areas nor buy any essentials cause honestly trading doesn't concern us.
So why NQ out of the blue is forcing us to be traders in order to do basic industry stuff?
You want a living , breathing economy like EVE but you have to understand that unlike that game our income sources are quite limited.
There are no PVE related missions/elements so our only gateway to make quanta is essentially through the market.
Basically you are forcing a playstyle on us that we don't really want to follow here...

Usually i'm on NQ's side for most things but this is pretty much the definition of "righteous justice" .
All this due to your horrendous RDMS system which is highly suceptable to exploits.
You think losing a Market is a big deal but some of us lost days, weeks, hell even months of work from these holes in the system.
We got people making tickets, creating Forum posts for days in a row only for our concerns to be met with absolute silence?
Perhaps it's time to take a step back, if you want a system that rewards scammers and exploiters at least do the courtesy and offer some basic countermeasures.
 

Usually i'm on NQ's side for most things but this is pretty much the definition of "righteous justice" .
All this due to your horrendous RDMS system which is highly suceptable to exploits.
You think losing a Market is a big deal but some of us lost days, weeks, hell even months of work from these holes in the system.
We got people making tickets, creating Forum posts for days in a row only for our concerns to be met with absolute silence?
Perhaps it's time to take a step back, if you want a system that rewards scammers and exploiters at least do the courtesy and offer some basic countermeasures.
 

It's more like the police saying you can rob ANY open door without our interference, but when you rob the polices open door they hang you afterwards even tho it was never clarified and directly opposes our fundamental statement. 

Usually i'm on NQ's side for most things but this is pretty much the definition of "righteous justice" .
All this due to your horrendous RDMS system which is highly suceptable to exploits.
You think losing a Market is a big deal but some of us lost days, weeks, hell even months of work from these holes in the system.
We got people making tickets, creating Forum posts for days in a row only for our concerns to be met with absolute silence?
Perhaps it's time to take a step back, if you want a system that rewards scammers and exploiters at least do the courtesy and offer some basic countermeasures.
 

Please be honest with us here - was this something they did by pressing B due to bad RDMS, or did they do something else to cause a glitch (we don't need to know what)?
 
Right now it looks to many observers that you have said theft through bad RDMS is fine, not an exploit, and you can't/won't get involved in that, but when these players did exactly that they should have known that you (NQ) did not intend for them to be able to steal a game asset or be annoyed because you have changed the rules on them. 
 
Well, guess what, all those players who had constructs stolen didn't intend for them to get stolen either.
 
Your clause about reporting and not abusing bug exploits has been written into game rules since anti-cheat was published August 27th, but you have not even banned anyone (to my knowledge) that was involved in bug related ship-jacking, or base-jacking. 
 
You have not even responded to my question about why a Youtuber is telling people on his channel that NQ have told him it's ok to ignore one of the anti-cheat rules forbidding simultaneous two-boxing. 
 
If you want testers to stay and have any respect for your endeavours, you need to be consistent, not playing favourites at the expense of paying testers.
 
I love what you're trying to achieve here, but right now, you're Nero, not Neo, fiddling while Rome burns, not saving anyone.   
 

Then I exect NQ will be consistently harsh to "bad guys" from now on, without any difference against who (or how) they do funny (not intended by mechanics) things.
 
 

I've read this thread from top to bottom now (ending at this point, whose to say what's happened in the time I've taken to write this), while my take is nothing special and has been said several times already, I'll offer it anyways:
 
I'm inclined to agree with this statement particularly.
 
Was it in bad taste, I agree, it was. I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that point.
 
The decision to leap straight to a permanent ban has me taken aback. I haven't seen anything personally, but I've heard plenty of reports about people's entire bases being stolen out from under them, even live right in front of them.
 
This blight went on for nary a time before NovaQuark finally gave us some guidance on the subject. People stealing your construct due to misconfigured RDMS is on the construct owner, and that such theft would not result in any action on behalf of NovaQuark.
 
Okay, I can understand pinning the blame on the player tester for misunderstanding the system or handing out permission willy nilly, or even setting perms to 'all', which now has a window advising players testers of the potential hazard. This, to me, is reasonable. The player tester needs to clean up their act and take it as a learning moment no matter how bitter the pill is to swallow.
 
I can even understand NovaQuarks position relating to interference with the game test. One of the marketplaces on Alioth was destroyed, and some player's testers orders were interrupted.
 
What I fail to understand here, is how NovaQuark can tell players testers who had their constructs "stolen" from them on account of faulty RDMS be given no action, only to turn around and permanently ban players testers for taking advantage of faulty RDMS on NovaQuarks own constructs.
 
It was also laid out a few days ago to that theft as a result of bad RDMS will not be actioned on by NovaQuark.
 
Did people's orders at the marketplace get interrupted, yes. 
Did a marketplace get destroyed by some players testers, yes. 
Did stuff get stolen and sold for profit, yes. 
Did some people get inconvenienced, yes.
 
Guess what:
Come atmospheric PVP and player-run markets, this kind of activity will be a daily fact of life which we'd all best get used to it.
 
Maybe for laughs, they even wrote out "Plz don't ban" in voxels when the crime was finally done. All right, perhaps it wasn't a new person that stumbled upon this but someone with experience that knew what they were doing, and the profit-seeking crime is premeditated. Instead of a seven-day ban, make it a thirty day one.
 
Sure, the beta experience got sullied, I agree. And while it was an NQ marketplace that got the wipe, it's not like it's the only marketplace on Alioth.
 
While I do agree the destruction was overboard, I think the response to this from NovaQuark was equally so. I believe NQ should take this as a learning experience, the players testers too, but more so NovaQuark. The players testers learned that no one is immune from bad RDMS, and NovaQuark probably learned a thing or two about marketplaces that should come in handy for the future feature of player-run marketplaces.
 
Dare I say we should celebrate this moment in Beta as "Hey remember that one time in Beta where a bunch of people tore apart a marketplace?" and we can all laugh around our campfire years after release...
 
Instead, what are we watching? A two-tiered justice system; rules for thee but not for me. I don't like it, not one bit.
 
Don't get me wrong, I still think something should be done in the end, but I think the justice served here outweighs the crime. Meanwhile, the justice other testers are seeking for the constructs that got stolen from them is being delayed if not denied entirely. If that was the case, we'd have a month-long backlog by now (to clarify, on that issue alone on top of everything we already have) sadly, NovaQuark is in no way treating equal actions with equal outcomes and consequences as far as this particular topic of theft goes. If we're being honest with ourselves, then scoopers, dupers, and exploiters would have already gotten the boot before this event even happened. No great Quanta reset, no publicly nerfing the ice cream scoops, just bans.
 
The fact that this scenario played out the way it did, it makes me question what is safe. If I'm questioning what is safe, that doesn't exactly make me want to test anything out of fear that I might end up in the same fate. Maybe the only winning move is not to play test?
 
In most circumstances, I can see and understand in NQ's favor on crime and punishment, but this is not one of those times. Sorry to say, but you do not have my support in this, and I've also been given some things to think about as a result of this. I don't think this topic has met its end, which is what I'm waiting for before I come to my definite conclusion. Know that I'm still just a user like anyone else commenting on this thread. I can't sway NQ's opinion in any manner, and that is not my intent with this post.
 
You have my thoughts and I'm curious to see what the future holds.
 
Oh, and I'm not joining anyone's protest or movement on any communication medium. I'm simply offering my opinion on the matter which is what these forums have allowed me to do.

This is ridiculous NQ, so when it happens to you bans are thrown to the accused but when it happens to us who cares right?

So basically - what you're saying if players screw up RDMS, it's on them, if NQ screws up RDMS, it's a violation of the EULA?
 
Really guys? It's pretty clear when players are able to get access to other peoples constructs that they were 'not intended' to have access by the owner. Yet when it's players, that's fine.
 
But when YOU screw up - you ban the players?
 
Absurd.

Usually i'm on NQ's side for most things but this is pretty much the definition of "righteous justice" .
All this due to your horrendous RDMS system which is highly suceptable to exploits.
You think losing a Market is a big deal but some of us lost days, weeks, hell even months of work from these holes in the system.
We got people making tickets, creating Forum posts for days in a row only for our concerns to be met with absolute silence?
Perhaps it's time to take a step back, if you want a system that rewards scammers and exploiters at least do the courtesy and offer some basic countermeasures.
 

Usually i'm on NQ's side for most things but this is pretty much the definition of "righteous justice" .
All this due to your horrendous RDMS system which is highly suceptable to exploits.
You think losing a Market is a big deal but some of us lost days, weeks, hell even months of work from these holes in the system.
We got people making tickets, creating Forum posts for days in a row only for our concerns to be met with absolute silence?
Perhaps it's time to take a step back, if you want a system that rewards scammers and exploiters at least do the courtesy and offer some basic countermeasures.
 

The other people exploited something, not simply walked up and pressed B on their keyboard. The OP tried to report it, albeit through the wrong channels, an attempt was made.  My point was the fact the other guy reported it quite a while back and nothing has been done about it. Yet this is met with a permaban in less than 24 hours. The market deconstruction at best should have been met with a temp ban honestly. It was NQ's screwup and they didn't verify things before they called the job completed. If anything, it exposed another issue of market orders being tied to constructs apparently.
 
Just to be clear, I mostly agree with you that exploits that are taken advantage of need to be addressed with a ban hammer. But going from no previous consequences to a perma-ban over something that NQ screwed up is too extreme. Given the laziness of NQ to not anticipate as well as fully test something before executing is bad practice and shows a grim outlook on this game when the players are the ones that get the short end of the stick.