Anopheles

It's a terrible decision, favouring not actually playing players over actually playing players.  For the fourth and hopefully final time, in a dynamic universe you should expect to be rolled over if you don't play.  Sure some may not come back, but there's no guarantee they would anyway even with this artificial and top down intervention in a "player run" game.
 
There are also the knock on effects like excluding new players from travelling to market to auto sell because new tiles are not freeing up. 

Hi Everyone, its been a while since I last played (since  a bit after the 0.23 debacle when schematics were introduced). Here is what I noticed.
 
1.  Population is dead.
      Very few people around - even massive spaceports with tens of thousands of hours of build time invested are abandoned.
 
2. Why?  Well the game hasn't been fun since the fall season of beta launch (introduction of schematics in 0.23).
 
    - I am  80% builder,  20% pvp.  For a game that refuses to have PvE, a critical mass of population is required. Its not happening.
    - PvP is about blowing stuff up. 
    - Everything is way too expensive in terms of my time and effort to blow it up.
   -  No point to building if I can't share it with anyone or use it to make cheap ships
 
 My recommendation:
 
   3.  don't worry about inflation. If there are too many ships around, then they will become cannon fodder and the game will become fun again.
 
   4.  don't worry about too many tiles per person. Right now if a person owns half a planet there is still room for growth.
        - lower the tile taxes so I don't spend so much my time feeding the tax machine
        -  the tax is making it not effective to mine on any but the most productive tiles
        - hunting for a workable tile is not the game I want to play --->  I want to blow stuff up, not spend endless hours waiting for my scanner to give results. Not fun.
        - you can make taxes on tiles adjustable
        - each planet has a tile claimed percentage, so use that number to set the tax per tile. Popular planets will be more expensive, tax-wise.
 
   5.   Taxes on a tile should be the same as the bonus for daily log-in. 
 
   6.  The Devs seem to want to shape the behavior of players to log in every few days.
        -  extend your expectations to the sweet spot of logging on once per week (on the weekends when we have time).

   7.  The maintenance on automated mining is too short. I want it automated so I don't have to log in constantly. Once a week is good and make it cheap so I can build lots of cheap ships to blow up.
       - I am not going to destroy my expensive Ferrari, but I would be willing to take my low cost beater design into war.
 
  8. The problem with schematics isn't the cost, its the explosion of logistics to manage the darned things. 
     - Don't require the schematic to be in the actual machine - pull it from a central library that I own so I don't have to constantly look to see where it is last time I used it. 
 
 9. Math:
     - Try to stay away from hard limits - they don't work well in dynamic systems. 
     - Use differently shaped opposing forces (for example : a linear curve minus an exponential curve will shape the sweet spot of something)
 
10. Don't worry about rich people.
    - They will either: 
       a) quit out of boredom
       b) become benevolent sponsors and help others to grow  
       c) become evil geniuses that others will have to group up on to take down (sounds like fun)

 
 Overall make it fun! 
      Devs have gotten too carried away with putting fixed limitations on players'  behavior.  Give the economy some freedom and use self-adjusting sinks.
     
     Too many ships? --> Encourage war, theft and vandalism.
     Not enough ships?    --> Encourage building with cheaper material production. (lower taxes, increase mine production)
     Too many owned tiles?  -->  Encourage fights between neighbors or pollutions that lower mining yields on densely packed areas.
     Not  enough owned tiles? --> Lower taxes and increase yields
     
    Too much griefing ?  --> Give escaping a bigger chance with a stealth burst,  ECM,  or lower detection distance (increase background detector noise)
    Not enough hunting ?  --> Increase radar detection radius (lower the local background radiation interference)


 
Finally - respond to these posts with actual thoughts - brainstorm with your customers, not just amongst yourselves - or you won't have any left.

 
 
 

You only skimmed the post, right?
 
Frustration with the neighbour (and it was actually several neighbours I'd tracked down, all who left a year ago with no intention of ever coming back - one who asked to be paid in Starbase to handover DU assets, all with very abrasive comments on DU and NQ), combined with waiting 9 mths for the solution, given hope, then having it deceptively taken away again, were only the final straw.
 
No. It was death by 1000 cuts. 
 
Demeter screwed me. It took away the ore I'd mapped but hadn't mined yet, took away my scans (another last-minute reversal, after doing MORE scans because we were told they'd be kept). It ganked my space elevators (Caterpillars thrown out of alignment by geometry reset combined with 'manual control' crash). It trashed my base (which was high on a terraformed ramp, meaning after the geometry reset it was left floating high in the air, inaccessible, for which there was no 'excavation request' type solution despite my raising it during PTS:
 

 
Then I wasted hours and millions in quanta setting up mining ops that got locked up by the core overlap bug, put in 2 excavation requests that failed, had a ship tokenisation error. All this after I'd been wrestling for weeks with problems trying to get a multi-core static BP ready for sale, and gradual realising there was nothing on the horizon to improve head-aches for builders like this:
 
I still had big plans, having spent months building the giant floating island with a system in mind to convert it to space cores and build this:
 

 
But my base and space elevators were fragged, my support requests were getting incrementally less helpful replies (like suggesting reinstalling the game to fix what was clearly a game bug) and there was no light on the horizon that NQ were ever going to do anything to make dealing with L static and space BPs easier. If anything, it was getting harder. 
 
I'd previously gotten rolled on the "new screen tech" API that mooted 3 mths of work on my multi-player roulette table, and still had a backlog of a months work updating ~150 screens in my store. 
 
The only thing I had left to look forward to, was the promised abandoned subscriber tile clean-up.
 
Then a worrying thought entered my head. "What if NQ back-flip on this, like they did on scans?" I mean, surely not twice in a row, right? But to be safe, I thought I better come here and say a few words about why I thought wiping unsubbed player tiles is a good thing: 
That post felt redundant, because it had already been decided. And there are obvious reasons for it, beyond my post: Like the performance improvement of not rendering abandoned constructs - which is inevitably only going to get worse. Or the disincentive to unsubscribe on a whim and mothball in-game assets till launch.
 
Anyway, Pann had liked my Tweet saying this was my favourite thing about Demeter...
 
  
 
Finally, a win.
 
Then, a few hours later, NQ steal-patched HQ tiles for unsubbed players. 
 
The several players around me who despised DU, who'd played for a few weeks and quit over a year ago, were protected. 
 
It was precisely at that point that I realised I had zero faith left in where DU was going. No way of knowing. No trust in any announcements made. And without that, there's just no way to plan projects on the kind of scale that I like to work. Projects that take months and hundreds of hours. 
 
That's what it really boils down to: WIthout at least a little predictability on what is coming next, or a clear process and probability for getting a feature request considered, there's no point investing any significant amount of time in the game. And predictability has dropped to zero.
 
 

I remember flying around Alioth in a ship I built that I thought was soooo good.  3 small containers,  lol

25kl.  That's nothing ....  Just kidding, that's a lot of weight

Docking shields are just yet another example of a quick fix doing more damage then it fixes.
 
- It completely ruins any immersion in the game. Landing on a market pad now feels like you are in the middle of a dancing game with blinking lights everywhere.
- You can no longer just land on a big ship just to say hi to someone, decreasing immersion as mentioned above.
- The entire dynamic and satisfaction of being able to precision land between other ships is gone.
- I had to double the size of my HQ landing area just to be able to land without activating "disco party" mode.
- You can no longer use dynamic constructs creatively for decorations like statues etc. without causing lots of problems
- You can't click the rapport abuse button on a construct parked high up in the air, because you are unable to land on it
 
.. and so on.
 
So in short it causes problems for all, and was done this way just to try and avoid dev time by reusing/misusing the PvP shields instead of making an actual fit for purpose patch for the involuntary boarding/docking problem.

Well...it's because the size of the game area is too small.  In larger games, there's more space (aha!) to hide or get  lucky in.    In DU's already tiny playing area, the asteroids are in one small part of it and there aren't enough to get lost in.

Well...it's because the size of the game area is too small.  In larger games, there's more space (aha!) to hide or get  lucky in.    In DU's already tiny playing area, the asteroids are in one small part of it and there aren't enough to get lost in.

If it were strictly issues of game development I doubt there would be anywhere near this much turmoil.  The corporate leadership over the dev team has as much to do with the problems as undeliverable promises of any or all of dev team. 
 
When JC left I considered leaving right then and there.  I took a break instead, keeping an eye on updates and logging in every so often.  I have been less than impressed with the changes since (being nice), but the Demeter changes that I have interacted with so far are unbearable IMO.  If the stated reasons for the map wipe hold true then I expect a future patch to nerf (and eventually remove) terraforming on some or all planets.  It wouldn't be the end of the game per se, but it would pull the rug out from under more than a few creative players.
 
We already had the "player run economy" gutted and all but removed early on.  Now terrestrial mining has been gutted completely and heaped onto the already broken market bots.  What few features that have been added only add to the sense of performing chores rather than playing in a sandbox.  I have enough chores, I play games to get away from chores.  F*** busy work and shoehorned gating mechanics.  I don't have much to say about PvP, but I've seen others say plenty.  That just leaves constructs and space travel, for which there are better games.  
 
I don't think I'll bail just yet, but I suspect I won't be given any significant reasons to play DU anytime soon.
 
Mega:  I hear ya, and good luck out there.

As it should be.  If the game is to be a representation of a dynamic universe, things need to be able to change.  If I fail to play, the world should roll over me.  
 
and the hq system is fine - if confined to actually playing players.

Am I wrong in assuming the purpose of the tax was to clear the land of abandoned constructs?
 
If not that, what is this supposed to accomplish?

Those seem like legitimate questions to me. 

I have.  I agree.  NQ wants a "player controlled" space but doesn't allow players to much affect said space.  Even terraforming on any kind of large scale is frowned upon because of out game costs.

What is with space games and grind as gameplay?  Elite Dangerous is just as bad and even Eve has only about four game loops of various grindiness.
 
I suppose it's the natural consequence of having engineers create a story, which works as well as a bunch of artists building a practical engine.
 
The writing in the wall came way back when they decided to limit the game to one solar system killing, at a stroke, any exploration and discovery gameplay ("we've hidden a...oh you found it already?)
 
And it's bad for newbies AND older players who spent money on doing what they enjoyed (which in DU is building things). I ddn't play to make money.
 
So, I can make the money to keep my modest four hex area active if I sacrifice one session (of my spotty amount of game sessions) a week hauling ore to the market and checking in my mu's.  
 
This isn't play, it's work.  Every time I log on, the urge to play something quicker rewarding gets stronger.
 
Improvements?
 
More more planets, with more geography
 
allow planet features to be named by whoever holds the most hexes on it
 
allow free for all scavenging on unprotected ships (and allow protection)
 
Build NPC cities run by npcs to begin with, replacing them with players with enough vicious ambition to do it and hold onto it
 
Pay (variable) taxes to those cities that control your hex
 
Allow PC cities to set their own tax
 
Allow independent hexes (with a downside because choices)
 
Rename everything with actual names for the sake of immersion.
 
Allow players to hold the reins more and not just be fleas on the horse
---
Just off the top of my head.  Nothing above is difficult to implement.
 
 
 

So Dual Universe doesn't need mandatory game content, but proper game mechanics that are fun and players are really allowed to "play". 
Good:
New content, something new to explore, whether new planets with new resources or really new species as NPC enemies to fight, new dungeons, raids, arenas, battlegrounds, new engines with new effect (rotors?) more solar systems, community projects like big stargates,....
Bad:
More taxes, more repair, just to maintain existing, because it is not a new great content, but a capture in a boring continuous loop. Means it's not playing, it's a commitment and I don't need a game for that, real life already has something like that to offer - only better.


Translate from:
 
 

Player run game
Simple     NQ make changes and the players run   
 
EDIT.
OK, so I actually read the OP's post now.  Yes I think youre about right.

Normally a game is developed from small to abit larger to epic, Somehow DU is developed exactely oposit, from epic ideas to scatch this, that, this this, aaand dont forget that, ok and now we have left uhmmm. Ok, can we promote and sell this?

100% on point in frustration.

- Taxes are still unbalanced
- HQ'ed tiles, are knee jerk solution to players being unable to return/rejoin.
- Need more incentive to leave safe zone, take the risk honestly.
- Game scope does seem to be reducing but necessary to secure games future.

I am hoping they will take December to balance taxes, look at player proposed solutions first then move onto some of these other things.

I think the 5 tile HQ'ing is a poor implementation of trying to keep the player from returning to nothing. I think they should have dynamic cores (which we can't claim anyway) magic bp'ed back to them... and lose the statics... so atleast they have a ship and a sanct tile to rebuild.
 

Is NQ saying that they just decided to remove the option to claim territories from inactive players by automatically assigning the tiles withe most constructs as HQ without any interaction by the said player?
 
That's bascially removing a core argument they hav eused as to why taxation of tiles is a thing that is good.
 
Would be nice to hear some clarification on this one too

I think staggering is a great idea. The below is not. 

• For players who haven’t set any headquarters, five headquarters have been automatically assigned based on the highest number of static constructs on the territory.
 
There are inactive players owning key tiles preventing the expansion of huge community projects. These types of projects are what we were told is part of why we are here in DU.  Not following why protecting inactive player hexes anywhere outside Sanctuary Moon is a good idea. We have always been told the only fully safe location is Sanctuary Moon.

Please NQ - give us a means to remove or claim inactive player hexes. There are key locations preventing 100's of current players from expanding the building projects they are doing together due to players who left the game weeks into Beta. 

What is with space games and grind as gameplay?  Elite Dangerous is just as bad and even Eve has only about four game loops of various grindiness.
 
I suppose it's the natural consequence of having engineers create a story, which works as well as a bunch of artists building a practical engine.
 
The writing in the wall came way back when they decided to limit the game to one solar system killing, at a stroke, any exploration and discovery gameplay ("we've hidden a...oh you found it already?)
 
And it's bad for newbies AND older players who spent money on doing what they enjoyed (which in DU is building things). I ddn't play to make money.
 
So, I can make the money to keep my modest four hex area active if I sacrifice one session (of my spotty amount of game sessions) a week hauling ore to the market and checking in my mu's.  
 
This isn't play, it's work.  Every time I log on, the urge to play something quicker rewarding gets stronger.
 
Improvements?
 
More more planets, with more geography
 
allow planet features to be named by whoever holds the most hexes on it
 
allow free for all scavenging on unprotected ships (and allow protection)
 
Build NPC cities run by npcs to begin with, replacing them with players with enough vicious ambition to do it and hold onto it
 
Pay (variable) taxes to those cities that control your hex
 
Allow PC cities to set their own tax
 
Allow independent hexes (with a downside because choices)
 
Rename everything with actual names for the sake of immersion.
 
Allow players to hold the reins more and not just be fleas on the horse
---
Just off the top of my head.  Nothing above is difficult to implement.
 
 
 

Exactly. And is it this type of functionality together with player driven markets and the ability to largely dictate the rules for a tile you own, that is needed to get any type of real player driven content/economy and player centralization in the game. And it is what the game was supposed to be from the beginning. NQ made the tools, and the players made content. But without the tools, the players never had a chance..
 

I have.  I agree.  NQ wants a "player controlled" space but doesn't allow players to much affect said space.  Even terraforming on any kind of large scale is frowned upon because of out game costs.

But ... but ... that would mean the developers would have to actually develop and not expect players to do their job? .... /wink --- see my YT Video

Well, Among other things, that I got my issues with, the UI is the outstanding thing.
Why? Because it makes a difference, if you get a 95% calibration, or a 100% calibration, but the bar on the left won't show you. 

From this you can't tell, what you will get. Plus, even if that bar would give you a precise number, it would be tedious to find the 100% spot (which was found, meaning I should be able to claim it easily).
 
Thus, I suggest, that either the 'SET FINAL CALIBRATION POINT' (and the UI is even yelling at the player, allthough it is a button, after all) Will display you the best spot that you already discovered.
Or it should use a small circle from which it picks the maximum.