le_souriceau

May be umpopular thing to say (and i'm not aiming to anyone specificly), yet I think over time this shift also seriously degraded all "civilizaton building" game grand idea and even more -- organization building. To much of 0 risk "creative mode" removes all stimulus. Ironicly i see much more social activity and complex systems/behaivors, interesting things, drama (some amount is good for health!), happen in PvP specialized (or inclined) orgs. While they have some of their own quirks, at least they produce particular projection into common space. Yet many "PvE" entities are exist in kinda of twisted "peaceful" torpor where several of guys just maintaining another mega-factory and hoarding stuff to make containers to hoard more stuff... sometimes they can build reasonably fancy ship. Their orgs obviously have ambitious names (and charter no one updated since creation), some members (who somewhere doing something on their own), some idea no one cares about any more... Such entities generaly produce nothing for wider world, their existence kinda... sterile? all this stuff people can be doing great alone or just with couple of friends. Not mean anything bad, I get people can have fun such way (i'm pluralist), yet still something feels inherintly wrong with this dynamics when it goes en masse. Landmark lobby? I hugely respect some of guys from here for their dedication to game and supporting it unconditionaly in its darkest days, yet yeah... too much of their lobbying (even if unconcious) is obviously detrimental. I minecrafter myself with some carebear blood, but this trend of devoiding game of any conflict is very dangerous. Because to be popular and played for years, game need to be flavourful in ways.

Problem with planet regeneration, that: 1) if its "too fast" and NQ confirmed they keeping current big SZ, lots of people will have again have even less reasons to ever leave it -- things go even more static and stale. 2) if its "too slow", then it useless and bring even more constant unrest with pleads to increase rates. 3) "golden middle" probably is impossibly hard to achieve. Yet most importantly, regenrating ore will damage other connected pillars of game disign quite seriously (and not always in obvious ways). At same time this is serious issue, because with time (peaking probably by begining of next year) and to at least before introducing new fresh systems, joining players will encounter more and more objective disadvantages based on natural depletion and go progressivly bitter about it.

Привет! Причин может быть несколько и тут надо разбираться. Как вариант, попробуй поговорить с нашими русскоязычными людьми, мужики может что подскажут знающие, вот Дискорд сообщества: https://discord.gg/kvHV55 Если нет, пиши в саппорт, но нужно будет переводить как-то на английский, вот неплохой авто-переводчик (лучше гугловского): https://www.deepl.com/ru/translator

Problem is I can't even imagine amount of sweetening needed to make it at least resonably passable experience. 1) NQ already given message (at least how people mostly understood it) that no more wipes to be expected. 2) Took money for Beta subs (implication are very clear in this context). 3) Principal problems grown from horrendous NQs game disign miscalculations -- when people almost begged not to do it like this. It will be seen like NQ make us pay for their mistakes, that were very avoidable, if they only listen feedback better. So it will be very bitter mood around. 4) I think overall there is noticeble (as I percieve it at least) exaustion between vets and risk not all survive starting everything from zero yet AGAIN. 5) Much more bad press... So NQ kinda got themselves in trap, to be honest. What still may work: a) do some sort of very complicated partial wipe (not magic bp bs) -- with saving of particular assets and fair compensation for others, but this is not likely because NQ probably have nor manpower, nor, what is more important -- habit go this more nuanced route. b) just bribe players with insane ammounts of additional play time/dacs/cash shop currency and other shit -- yet this will very likely make them financialy non-viable.

Well, Jago is kinda worst example to be honest (because of several factors in place), situation on other planets seriously better. Like you still can reliable find a lot of rhodonite on Ion.

Yep, i think this unites a lot of "old guard" critics (who obviously come in different personal styles and hardcoreness). Game has so much potential, its pains to see when NQ doing something (presumably, sometimes) wrong, that can harm game we so addicted to. So, real patriot cant be silent! Like take Blaze, while reading him sometimes can be like eating raw lemons (and some people quite a not fans of him because if this), he is, prejustices aside, often right about things (or very very close), both in current analysis and predictions. And if we imagine some fantasic situation when NQ takes him in some private setting and consult with him on matters, they can actualy profit from his insights quite a bit I think. Yet probably (and sadly) it never happen. For me its same complicated package to be honest, from one side its one of most exiting games of my gaming career, from other... i often found myself almost in rabid state of disagreement over how NQ do some things. What i think critical watershed about people who do critique thing: 1) There is ones who give NQ hard time (sometimes beyond polite or even resonable level), but because want see NQ stronger developer and game to survive/be succesful. There is little accent on personal grieviences (more on gerenal state of affairs now or future) + this critique strictly localized. 2) People who critique mostly on basis of personal "grieviences" (or simple and natural fact they not liked game) and, to nail the point (as they think) go hysterical about all this paying custumer bs, refund, unsubcribe, illegal dev actions and other too well familiar stuff, at the end stating wishes for game to fail or even actualy activly doing things in this direction by, per example, smearing shit on it in external sources.

Then you have some problems, if such simple thing is diffucult to understand.

I think its rather contrary and they already have quite set plan. It will be hybrid solution with addition of new system at release (where all new players start, with new sacnt and new fancy planets), so it will be prestine world for them to have this "fresh" feeling. At say time they allow old players to keep their less relevant "old wealth" in old system, potentialy making transit hard affair (or not possible for some time, like 1 m). NQ just keep silence, to not be tormented with million questions about and have some breathing space with details of realisation.

I think tricky part, that even if we will have no more per se wipes, game mechanics/balance/disign may (and probably will) change so drammaticly, that it can make some of our assets/achievments less relevant over time. So we must be ready to some losses anyway.

Well, as surviving alpha dissident of sorts (sure, not most radical), I can say, that NQ obviously not tyranical, and especialy not in comparison with some other dev teams. Its even funny, that issue is of contrary nature. For very long time NQ was (or percieved, we dont know internal workings) so impossibly soft-handed (undecisive?), that when they actualy gone "serious", it become... complicated, because was done in bad moment/circumstance/context. But just to think about, if NQ banned not those silly "market reconstruction agents" to make their first example of how strict they can be, but presented to us with news, that cabal of abominable dupers is destroyed, superpermabanned and whole their cursed org totaly wiped and removed from existance... Then lots of people will be in spasms of vendictive pleasure, totaly happy about NQ severe justice. Completly different story and public opinion.

As several people already noted over here and in Discord talks, problem not particular "interpretation" of crime act or even ban of this guy/guys (even people who seem like "defend" them not actualy I think much care about per se involved individuals). Its, as always in history, matter of circumstance and context, that makes mundane things powder kegs. Because if this happend in more calm circumstance, effect was drammaticly lower. Banned? And to hell with them. No one cared. Yet circumstance made them kinda "resistance" figures in funny sense. Vandalizing Robin Hoods. This discontent about NQ communication (especialy -- lack of communication on several very sensetive issues about different exploits, clear rules and examples of punishments) was brewing for some time now. For some people since early start, for some since alpha, for some -- from newer times. And this event was like sort of tragico-comedical twist of plot, when someone got biten with exactly same thing he was like... "deserving"? You know this stories? This why it having now so much effect.

Part of problem, support (especialy in discord and probably in tickets too) is completly clogged by smartasses (or idiots) who spam to teleport them or ships after they crush or muck up res nodes or something every single day... when its 100% their gameplay trouble/error. While I not name names obviously, but there is some people who already bothered support dozens upon dozens of times with "i need teleport" thing. They all waste already not perfect support team available resource. So may be first logical step will be get rid of them some way.

And people who "by common sense" must be like banned-quartered-then-banned-again, are walking completly free with full pockets and probably having a great fun reading this tread. Thing is, noboby care about those guys in particular too much, but what irretated masses is obvious NQ inconsistency. They super soft when almost begged to do some justice and examplary harsh when its not that nessesary. Its like medieval history disaster recipy with bad laws.

Then I exect NQ will be consistently harsh to "bad guys" from now on, without any difference against who (or how) they do funny (not intended by mechanics) things.

In way game still hugely tailored for old alpha folks, who know game quirks well, can afford invest a lot of time and gladly participate in everything like it last time in life. Its natural thing in online games and we speaking about good people who generaly kept this game afloat (!) during quite dodgy alpha times, yet I sometimes worried too about NQ ability to be more... well, apealing? welcoming? incslusive? looking wider? for new and different people, wanting not same things as established core of super-veteran players (who obviously keep some lobby power around too, achieved results of which I don't like mostly). Still, old thing here. While I hugely respect JC for his vision and staying power to make things actualy happen (not jump of boat like many in KS), yet also I think a lot of his desicions in game disign/priorities are just bad and sometimes blatant mistakes.

Economy (at least in intended way) failed since begining, its all just different smaller manifestations of its faliure popping here and there. Sure, some people still can be trader in such enviroment (like in IRL there is "trader" in any society or circumstance) and localy it works for them, but overall thing is very concerning. Futher average player progress into game, more obvious it will be.

Considering expoits and exploiters (umbrella terms in this case, because people trying to do all styles of shit, not only old school exploits) -- very painful issue. As I see it, NQ lacks both technical and political powers to really crack down on them. From technical point of view, while they probably can (if really want) trace player activity in detail via some sort of logs, its still a lot of manual work for very limited staff available, so it reserved only to some especialy nasty statistical cases or very aimed check (based on intel). Obviously, things slip through. To what extent? Who knows... Yet real problem is political will. Judging from my building/online games experience (both player/moderator/admin on amateur level) most of exploiters not some new unknown lonely wierdos, but... people we probably know quite well (respect?), some are even members of big and serious organizations. And what is especialy important, its rarely done for "solo use", again, whole organization benefit from such activities, splitting ill-gotten goods between members, both involved and not. This makes any serious investigation total hell, because so many actors and transactions, hidden traces (and honest players as "hostages"). And such people will not stay silent if cornered -- they will agressivly defend, manipulate others, blackmail by attacking game reputation and overall create immense ammount of drama that always serious deterence. Can you imagine NQ wiping all property from 200-300 player organization? Perma-banning several dozens of them? I'm not. So far NQ very reluctant go rise any ammount of dust at all (even if people really deserve some trashing), so its inevetably considered sort of carte-blache in particular circles. I expect this sort of issues to escalate even more.

To be honest, recently I start to noticing some drop in interest towards game from some of my aquitances after initial 1-1,5 m 24/7 access rush. They builded ships, industry, mined what they wanted to mine... and found that there is not much to do, especialy if you not into [current] pvp or some especialy time-consuming building/voxelmancy. Also all cool new games coming in (BG3, Cyberpunk, new VtM game) not helps in terms of population attention obviously.

Yep, this is what I observing since Alpha more or less. Whole picture fully meterialized during backer early start. We talking about certain lobby NQ obviously quite worried to anger in their decison making process. While it can be called for convinience "large orgs", its more about "old guard" establisment in general, where org membership is relativly secondary and not always deciding factor. And now they idealogicly allied to extent with "super active new guard", people who were especialy hungry and productluve during not_named_thing etc. They will die for unrestricted industry, no wipes and everything that keeps status quo in their favor. Obviously. (sure I hate idea of wipe too, because put so much work in already)

Main thing why all this so relativly easy to do is serious number of orgs leaders so starving on recruits, they accept almost everyone without too much questions. And then very liberal with rights after person talks "friendly" and simulates some help and participation for may be couple of weeks. Even better -- some fake loyalty and adoration of everything done by org and its leader. Mostly its cynical use not of bad RDMS (yet its horribly implemented too) but super-vulnurability of "aspiring" leaders on dreams to increase their following fast/easy way. Much more can be said on this, but its counter-intellegence stuff i not share for free ??

So... Short good news: NMC still alive (including old crew and with some new people too) and we resuming our content creating activities! If everything goes well, you can expect fresh interivews next week. Longer and quite transparent verision. We survived. Our "game start vacation" (planned one) sadly ended up much longer and painful (to level of not vacation at all), then we anticipated. Some pre-made plans failed, other suffered heavy (and unpleasant) alterations that demanded a lot of action. In meanwhile, trying to stay fully independent and still not found any realistic (and ethical) ways to monetize our production, we were left with only option to cover costs our in-game "projects/living" with own mining, hauling and other seriously time-consuming things... in some of which we not good at all. As cherry on top -- arrival of new members and their needs for help and guidence. Needless to say, it pilled up exteemly fast and kept me personaly very exausted (and on edge) for weeks -- situation when creative activities not an option (and DU felt like burden of second job). Granted, some my own poor desicions to blame here too. Anyway, NMC looking to win back our old alpha readers and get some new eyes of beta folk. I also think about how to utilise twitter from now on, but it will be gradual process, after decent revival of interviews part.

Well, its kinda happening in step by step way as unfortunate chain of events that accumulating. 1) Last moment "pre-launch" for backers decision (that was stated as "thank you", but...). 2) Fixation to placate new players with very casual starting conditions (huge non PvP zone with all ores, ship shop, daily money, several other ezz mode things). 2,1) Wrong (by my opinion) JC concept, that player-driven economy criticaly needs some artificial "kickstart". At least not in way it was done. 2,2) Relativly cocky (on my taste, again) JC idea, that economy disbalancing at start is okay, thay can easly fix it without wipe... later. 3) Previous points + some other bad disign choices (mostly due NQ stubbornly not listening Alpha community feedback) -- and players got dangerously faster progression, that was ever, ever intented. 4) As consequence of economy "rapidization" and "ezzmodeness" enourmous quantities of industry sprung up and multipled with great speed... 5) And now choking servers to death (while speculation, this at least partly the case I think). And "industry attack" happened so fast and so geometrical progression, that NQ found themeselfs with very little time to adequatly react with scaling/optimization. 6) Time/player pressure obviously increases risk of more panic-mode mistakes with more bad consequences... Sure, its not that hopeless (just my grumpy version), they still can figure it out with great magic and learn from it. I causiously believe in them.

Yep, @Cytoxx is right -- GM teleportation works and solves problem (so its truly of currently bugged Jago, not coincedence). Looks like it not for everyone, but my speculation it may be connected with 3 factors: 1) log off underground? 2) log off in particular time or "server state" when location save is "corrupted"? 3) may be corruption was on level of server cluster that serves Jago?

It was painfuly obvious from initial game economic disign (with extreamly low number of faucets, relativly short and primitive loop). People in such games mostly aim for increasing their assets and autonomy -- and mining/industry is currently most effective (if not only) way to do so for majority. So why they need to bother with something else? All this "one not need to do everything" is a bit of wishful thinking as long we not having more complex game systems to motivate more complex social bahaivor.

@Bradathur, yes, same issue! On Jago. Unhandled exception while trying to load (45% for me). Also I heard some more people experiencing it (in support Discord) without clear way to solve it. Cache clearing or force respawn from launcher so far not helping. I guess something corrupted data on NQ side, so may be server restart will help. If not I don't know -- asking GMs to teleport?