war4peace

I just finished turning off auto-renewal for my accounts. The reason? Mining changes.
Most games out there reward players for logging on daily. NQ chose a different path: DU is punishing players for NOT logging in daily.
I already work two jobs, the last thing I need is a third job which I pay for.
 
There is still game time left until Autumn 2022. I'll log in every now and then, to see what's going on. There's a chance I would change my mind, IF the game steers back to the proper path. As it is right now, it seems to be going the way of the Dodo.

It was fun while it lasted, though, gotta admit that.

I just finished turning off auto-renewal for my accounts. The reason? Mining changes.
Most games out there reward players for logging on daily. NQ chose a different path: DU is punishing players for NOT logging in daily.
I already work two jobs, the last thing I need is a third job which I pay for.
 
There is still game time left until Autumn 2022. I'll log in every now and then, to see what's going on. There's a chance I would change my mind, IF the game steers back to the proper path. As it is right now, it seems to be going the way of the Dodo.

It was fun while it lasted, though, gotta admit that.

I just finished turning off auto-renewal for my accounts. The reason? Mining changes.
Most games out there reward players for logging on daily. NQ chose a different path: DU is punishing players for NOT logging in daily.
I already work two jobs, the last thing I need is a third job which I pay for.
 
There is still game time left until Autumn 2022. I'll log in every now and then, to see what's going on. There's a chance I would change my mind, IF the game steers back to the proper path. As it is right now, it seems to be going the way of the Dodo.

It was fun while it lasted, though, gotta admit that.

I just finished turning off auto-renewal for my accounts. The reason? Mining changes.
Most games out there reward players for logging on daily. NQ chose a different path: DU is punishing players for NOT logging in daily.
I already work two jobs, the last thing I need is a third job which I pay for.
 
There is still game time left until Autumn 2022. I'll log in every now and then, to see what's going on. There's a chance I would change my mind, IF the game steers back to the proper path. As it is right now, it seems to be going the way of the Dodo.

It was fun while it lasted, though, gotta admit that.

I just finished turning off auto-renewal for my accounts. The reason? Mining changes.
Most games out there reward players for logging on daily. NQ chose a different path: DU is punishing players for NOT logging in daily.
I already work two jobs, the last thing I need is a third job which I pay for.
 
There is still game time left until Autumn 2022. I'll log in every now and then, to see what's going on. There's a chance I would change my mind, IF the game steers back to the proper path. As it is right now, it seems to be going the way of the Dodo.

It was fun while it lasted, though, gotta admit that.

So while I am unable to log in anyway, here my thoughts about Demeter so far:
 
-Mining units are fine for the most part, it would be nice if charge gain and calibration loss was both halved, just so that you dont have to log in every single day. We all know I will anyway, but the game shouldnt persuade you that hard.
 
-Headquarters are nice enough, it will just take a week or two for people to finally understand the concept "you still have to pay to have machines active, it is just immune to loss".
 
-I have noticed no difference regarding loading times or other benefits of the dirt reset, but plenty of other people are amazed they can now "VR someplace, or use scanners, like other people can". I wasnt even aware it was so shit for some others.
 
-Was still not able to find the "element overlapping" sign anywhere.
 
-But I do now have some weird bar across the minimap, even outside build mode, is that it? ?
 
-You got rid of mass info while flying, I liked checking my total cargo there, when I forgot to long to container or just have multiple hubs. This is not even in the patch notes, was it on purpose?
 
-I dont see updates on the updated roadmap.
 
-Not sure what rendering change there is to industry units, I had a good look when restart machines for 4 hours after the downtime, but they are still the same. And still show the wrong light colours and like to just get fucked all the time.
 
-Force field change is nice.
 
-Underwater landing is even harder now, because water is muddier.
 
-Most of the "UI" polish is hard to judge without direct comparison, I really cant tell.
 
-Space fuel XS, nice.
-
Mining unit collision is massively bigger a few seconds after deploying. So if you place a few, you then have to rearrange them so they dont overlap.
 
-Added "view market page"! Hell yes, thx guys, I think most people didnt even notice this one yet. 
 
-People who made DSATs had their 60M schematics turned into 3M schematics without compensation. 
 
-People who owned DSATs, had their 16M items turned into a 1.7M item, with no compensation. 
Instead of just introducing a new basic DSAT that only works on basic and common asteroids. Solving the same issue, but without fucking some people over.
 
-VR-mission change: There are two kinds of people (with some overlap) who do the big moneymaker missions.
                   Car-pool guys, where 20 people VR to one guy with a ship to take and turn in the mission.
                   Alt guys, where a guy and his 20 alts do the mission.
The car pool guys at least did something that, while imbalanceds in the game, was in theory available to everybody, you got rid of that. The Alt guys can continue unhindered. Why not use one of the working solutions?
 
-Weapon changes: Nobody bloody cares. 
I did the extremely hard math and found out that there are more engines in use than weapons, why not balance those for once? Just put pvp balancing on ice for now, it is a bottomless pit for dev time in some dirty shitcorner of the game most people dont visit anyway.

-Plenty of DC, lag, prolonged wait time, inability to log in, which I guess goes away in a day or two anyway.

Can you please hire a guy with the only job being to point out how something might be shit?  This game has issues, you come up with solutions, those solutions however often are flawed and turn out worse than the issue they try to fix. The dedicated "pointing out how this could be shit"-guy, would help.
 

I agree on all points! Logging in often should be an advantage for players, not logging in often should not be a punishment for players. 
The taxes need to be low enough to not punish players for which game loop they have picked.
 
taxes should be part quanta sink, part restoring hexes of players that have been gone for very long amounts of time. if you leave for 8-12 months it makes sense to loose tiles. and it could make the sanctuary moon more viable, beucase people can move things there and not worry about loosing that tile if they are gone too long 
 
there is inflation in dual universe, for instance a piece or ore might be 50 instead of 5. but its only one extra zero right now
but if they arent careful they will hit deflation even harder than new world did 

IF I have to go mine an asteroid to work on my base and ships.. fine
but if i am sitting around waiting for an autominer. or honestly
if at any point a player logs in
and is like..
i need to wait before i can do X
and so they log off
you've lost 

my nightmare is people having to grind up savings for many months before they can safely expand 
oh I better save X amount before I claim tiles or ill be stuck in the mining loop to support the tiles

but I do not mind the core concept of... x% of your tile's profits go into taxes
since some tiles will have more profit than others 
but it should probably start with a very low tax and increase with more tiles

right now making a lot of money doesnt hurt the game, it means you can make huge things and people can actually buy them 

@Nayropux I plan DU, the game, around my real life, not the other way around. So do most DU players, the ones you do NOT see very often. They find a window of a couple hours of free time at their convenience, log in, dig in a tile, get the ore, use it at their leisure, when they want to.
Autominers throw all that out the window. Suddenly, DU becomes something you need to adjust your real life around. I've done that in the past, with other MMOs, and it was horrible. Not going to do that, ever, again, no matter how interesting a game might be.
I don't want a game to tell me when to log in and punish me if I can't. I don't want to set alarms and drop everything else in real life just to keep what I already own in a game.
If autominers are implemented the way they are on PTS right now, I'll cancel my DU subscriptions and let characters expire. There are many, many other games around which would be more fun to play and won't force me to log in at specific times, risking to lose my assets if I don't.

This whole tax thing maybe be the end for me. I pay a subscription to play. Now they want me to work in game to keep what I have. I do that in IRL. I play to have fun. Not to do more work.

@Nayropux I plan DU, the game, around my real life, not the other way around. So do most DU players, the ones you do NOT see very often. They find a window of a couple hours of free time at their convenience, log in, dig in a tile, get the ore, use it at their leisure, when they want to.
Autominers throw all that out the window. Suddenly, DU becomes something you need to adjust your real life around. I've done that in the past, with other MMOs, and it was horrible. Not going to do that, ever, again, no matter how interesting a game might be.
I don't want a game to tell me when to log in and punish me if I can't. I don't want to set alarms and drop everything else in real life just to keep what I already own in a game.
If autominers are implemented the way they are on PTS right now, I'll cancel my DU subscriptions and let characters expire. There are many, many other games around which would be more fun to play and won't force me to log in at specific times, risking to lose my assets if I don't.

@Nayropux I plan DU, the game, around my real life, not the other way around. So do most DU players, the ones you do NOT see very often. They find a window of a couple hours of free time at their convenience, log in, dig in a tile, get the ore, use it at their leisure, when they want to.
Autominers throw all that out the window. Suddenly, DU becomes something you need to adjust your real life around. I've done that in the past, with other MMOs, and it was horrible. Not going to do that, ever, again, no matter how interesting a game might be.
I don't want a game to tell me when to log in and punish me if I can't. I don't want to set alarms and drop everything else in real life just to keep what I already own in a game.
If autominers are implemented the way they are on PTS right now, I'll cancel my DU subscriptions and let characters expire. There are many, many other games around which would be more fun to play and won't force me to log in at specific times, risking to lose my assets if I don't.

@Nayropux I plan DU, the game, around my real life, not the other way around. So do most DU players, the ones you do NOT see very often. They find a window of a couple hours of free time at their convenience, log in, dig in a tile, get the ore, use it at their leisure, when they want to.
Autominers throw all that out the window. Suddenly, DU becomes something you need to adjust your real life around. I've done that in the past, with other MMOs, and it was horrible. Not going to do that, ever, again, no matter how interesting a game might be.
I don't want a game to tell me when to log in and punish me if I can't. I don't want to set alarms and drop everything else in real life just to keep what I already own in a game.
If autominers are implemented the way they are on PTS right now, I'll cancel my DU subscriptions and let characters expire. There are many, many other games around which would be more fun to play and won't force me to log in at specific times, risking to lose my assets if I don't.

@Nayropux I plan DU, the game, around my real life, not the other way around. So do most DU players, the ones you do NOT see very often. They find a window of a couple hours of free time at their convenience, log in, dig in a tile, get the ore, use it at their leisure, when they want to.
Autominers throw all that out the window. Suddenly, DU becomes something you need to adjust your real life around. I've done that in the past, with other MMOs, and it was horrible. Not going to do that, ever, again, no matter how interesting a game might be.
I don't want a game to tell me when to log in and punish me if I can't. I don't want to set alarms and drop everything else in real life just to keep what I already own in a game.
If autominers are implemented the way they are on PTS right now, I'll cancel my DU subscriptions and let characters expire. There are many, many other games around which would be more fun to play and won't force me to log in at specific times, risking to lose my assets if I don't.

@Nayropux I plan DU, the game, around my real life, not the other way around. So do most DU players, the ones you do NOT see very often. They find a window of a couple hours of free time at their convenience, log in, dig in a tile, get the ore, use it at their leisure, when they want to.
Autominers throw all that out the window. Suddenly, DU becomes something you need to adjust your real life around. I've done that in the past, with other MMOs, and it was horrible. Not going to do that, ever, again, no matter how interesting a game might be.
I don't want a game to tell me when to log in and punish me if I can't. I don't want to set alarms and drop everything else in real life just to keep what I already own in a game.
If autominers are implemented the way they are on PTS right now, I'll cancel my DU subscriptions and let characters expire. There are many, many other games around which would be more fun to play and won't force me to log in at specific times, risking to lose my assets if I don't.

TL;DR: People paying for a game shouldn't lose their hard work with a monthly in-game tax. Change the mechanic so that they only lose rights management of the territory, or the territory becomes locked or something until the pay the debt. Loss of territory and especially constructs for paying players should be through PVP or subscription cancellation only. Also, agree with need to change auto-miner efficiency and minigame, it should be once or twice a week, not twice a day.
 
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Yeah, I say this as a member of the military; sometimes people either can't play your game for IRL reasons, or just need a break. Either way, if they are paying their active sub (or have a beta key for the time being) then there should not really be any monthly tax for things they own to not disappear on them.
 
If NQ went to a free to play with premium sub model this would make sense. Tax the free to play players, who can also buy periodic funds through DAC selling, premium "subbed (& beta key for now)" players don't get taxed (maybe even limit this to 10 or 20 tiles, I don't know). If I have a 6 month deployment I'm okay paying for 6 months of sub to keep my stuff, I always expected that with this game. Now you're telling me that I also need to amass funds to keep the tiles safe while I'm gone, awesome.
 
If you are intent on taxing paying players, I would suggest adopting a system where they lose the ability to grant rights on their tiles when they're in default and must pay all outstanding tax to be able to do things on their territory again. Removal of someone's constructs and territory, who is paying for the game, should only happen through them cancelling their subscription (or territory warfare obviously). I really want to see DU become something great, but the implementation of this mechanic  on people who are paying (or previously paid a substantial amount) to enjoy your game is going to push those people funding your game away from you.
 
Further on the enjoyment aspect, mini-game and efficiency should last a week, or 3 days, or something much more reasonable than needing to hop on twice a day and go to every auto-miner and recycle it. I flat out don't have the time or the care in the world to do that twice a day, and I imagine many other won't either. On top of the massive drop to the amount of ore that will be feeding the economy, even if every miner switched to auto-mining, there will now be a large portion of your previous miners who have no interest in "mining" anymore. The builders will build, the mission runners will run, the pirates will pirate, but the DU economy will be in for a shock when no one is selling hematite anymore.
 
NQ, please reconsider the balance to the changes you are about to implement.
 
Thank you.

Agreed. While I am trying to establish alternative income means, the overall projected changes would impact me as well, because it would indirectly devalue my art-based income simply because most players would not be able to afford paying fair amounts for my art.
Playing a game should not be equal to working in that game.
The Demeter changes mean, by and large, that the direction the game is going contradicts the selling points of the game itself: the ability to build large and expand. not sure what the planning behind is aiming towards, but it's not good.

Been on PTS now for 15 hours testing while collecting my thoughts. A lot of these changes will force players to /work/ to keep what they own in game... right now with rough calculations it looks like about /half/ of the ore dug may have to go back to paying taxes on the tiles, and thus players will need to work... to keep their land... to keep working to keep their land.

I say work, because these new loops, for many- will turn it into active work/tedium to manage. Plus, potentially half of your ore income is spent on the hexes... now you'll need to take a cut for fuel to transport/logistics. After the end of it, you're left with very little to build/expand with. For new players, it will be muuuuch harder to solo while getting a foot-hold.

So I ask, is this a move to slow players down and reduce overall server costs? As it stands this a soft-wipe of sorts, as many with "fun" projects people work on a few hours a week may now be forced into grinding to keep it going- or loose it... and if players don't come back, as it stands... you loose a tile, as it is on PTS... you also loose all the static constructs owned on that tile. 

So is this a change to reduce quanta/inflation? if so than look at the source, missions-alt runners to curb it vs creating a huge sink via land. Is this change for... data inflation? as more ore enters the game, more constructs are made- and in live(more data due to tunnels on top of that)  so more ore = data costs.  And I dare say this is the real reason for these changes, otherwise NQ will let up on them as player outrage seams to be more so than 0.23, and it hasn't fully sunk in yet for most players what these changes even mean... and while this post covers some core issues, it does not cover the ninja-changes to ship elements/flight mechanics or other core complaints.
 
Give us more ore via auto-mining - more charges, more ore to pull from per hex and... some way to skip the lame mini game.. please? minimum efficiency of 25% vs 0? Nobody wants to login once/twice a day to hop around auto-mining fields to play a stupid mini game. Least while mining traditionally I can tune out and watch Netflix, with autominers- it requires just enough attention you cant let your mind easily wander... but not enough satisfaction to make it.... enjoyable. 2x more ore may not be enough, 3-4x may hit a sweet spot for most. More Roids - All safe zone roids get mined out within an hour of discovery already. fix discovery timer of 20 minutes/middle Colum! Likewise, PTS seemingly won't spawn in asteroids in time for us to check the new spawn rates.... This change will /encourage/ more people into PVP space. Lower the taxes for tiles. This is a game that people pay monthly for- not a second job. 
  So say we all.

BlindingBright
-MTI Superlegate, Lodestar Chancellor

The negatives to a complete reset are:
The tedium of putting talents back in again that you didn't want to respec; For people who are not actively playing, a talent wipe means that all queued talents are likely removed from the active training queue. This means when the player returns, they have hardly any accrued talent points, and they are pretty unhappy. (This is a beta: players aren't expected to play daily until launch.)