Vasten

As they said in the dev blog Databases are overwhelmed And They are introducing ways to encourage surface mining, auto mining, and asteroids Translation STOP DIGGING.. OUR SERVERS CANT HANDLE IT So its doubtful you will be expected to mine it out first.. the goal is clearly to stop people from digging.. not encourage it And since the goal is to save the database before db costs get unmanageable.... I doubt the economic and player disparity effects will be made a priority This is a hacky attempt to solve a db scaling problem... the need to keep the fundamental tech working is more important than economics and balancing Expect it to be a messy poorly implemented patch

After the 3 dev blog dump the only thing of import I read there was "We want you to stop mining planets so we plan to add new mechanics so you dont have to dig" And "Our databases are imploding like black holes under their own weight.. we seriously underestimated database load... the sub fees cant cover the costs.. but dont worry we plan to find a solution" It was nice to see a vague and indirect admission that the tech is fundamentally flawed, even if they did basically say "omg.. why are you guys digging so much, our servers cant handle it... we had no idea about this thing where players will grind for hours.. it was impossible to anticipate that players will grind so much" The part where they talked about it as some kind of profound learning experience and I was out.. Seems like NQ is always saying that kind of stuff... "Omg.. what is this 'grinding' ?didnt expect that" "Omg Death cubes.. what is this 'meta' thing? Didnt expect that" "Omg.. most players are solo playing... why would they do that?" "Omg.. most players want to just have fun instead of being part of complicated organized societies.. why?" Etc... Yeah... real groundbreaking profound realizations there. So I just played some solo games.. any new signs of hope? I dont see anything except some improving docking stuff.. cause yeah.. that should be priority lol Meanwhile sb has solid roadmaps and is clearly growing into a good replacement for 99% of playerbase... sure they have a more limited building and coding system.. but if anything that give me faith they are seriously aware of where bottlenecks and overload will popup.. plus actually structural integrity and good ship and ava pvp... Looks like I should just wait the 1 more month till sb ea.. am I wrong?

Anyone else read this as "once the game was said to be no-wipe the grinders emerged. We didn't know there would be so many people mining and digging tunnels 3 to 7 hours a day, our database is is so big its collapsing into a black hole" "So we now want to move to surface mining, bot based mining which doesnt dig tunnels and caves, and spawned asteroids which can be despawned and deleted, to remove the mining burden on the database" Everything is about the database ballooning because they didnt have a clue how much gamers can grind Make it easier for newcomers to gather resources from the surface of planets without the need to dig; Then, transition players to deploying mining units once they’ve claimed a territory. Mining units will supply a steady stream of ore, depending on the specifics of the tiles the player has claimed. These mining units come in tiers and should add a sense of progression even to early mining. There will also be a production optimization gameplay if you want to use several mining units. For players who want to specialize in mining, we will introduce asteroid mining. Think of asteroids as epic mining with high reward potential. Asteroids will be spawned in the universe. Players will be able to scan clues in space to discover where they’re located. Some asteroids will contain not just regular ores, but also rare and valuable ones. Once discovered, there will be a delay before their location is broadcast to all players. This is an opportunity for explorers who find these asteroids to reap their resources first or monetize their location. The control of valuable asteroids will also create opportunities for combat, information trading, and collaboration between players. Please also note there will be asteroids in safe zones with lower-value ores.

Fresh fish... the cycle of hope I was there not long ago.. now the thread of hope is so thin i wont spend any more time grinding until I see something to renew my faith.

I know your pain Gravity, evolution, etc.. I used go into a rage like the hulk when a layperson thinking the scientific word "theory" was as they understood it to mean "hypothesis/assumption/guess" tried to use those "it's just a theory" arguments... My point was just that you require a qualifier for "apples are red" like "some".. without it the exceptions make it semantically false.. in case the argument became "average can be used to reference all three as a group" I if I'm gonna play semantic games, I like preemptively cut off rebuttals hehe.. after years in tech R&D I have become the guy who tries to reduce communication to one long initial response instead of a long conversation... Q "can we make this do that" A" NO, and it cant do these things either.. it can do these simmilar things, but only if you sacrifice those things.. and if you think we can do x or y let me tell you why that wont work either... and dont even think about z, we are not Sony or NASA"

Yeah.. charge for time usage then see how much worse people scream about lag haha

Actually average most commonly refers to mean, which is the total sample values divided by the sample size, which does not imply 50% are lower than the average You are thinking of the median (ther value at the center of a sample ordered by value) I meant I agree with the message of "dont underestimate the stupidity of the masses, never forget there are alot of very dumb people" You could argue the average is also often used as a broader term to define mean, median and mode as a group of concepts, but then you have not defined what you mean by average and the statement is false by exception abd lack of qualifier like saying "apples are red" Thousands of years of fundamental mathematics would argue with Carlin, and with you it would seem

Easier would be to slash costs to near nothing (starting with community support, text support, new asset designers and new feature programmers.. sound familiar?) keep it on bare minimum life support and milk the current subscribers and new trickle of new subs over long period to bleed out as much cash to recover whatever lost capital they can Remember, du is a recurring subscription.. and i worked in ecommerce when I was young.. a very significant portion of recurring subscription keep collecting for months and years even after the user stops logging and forgets about their account

I know lua scripts execute client side So when I'm at market, and see script errors from other people scripts and tons of lag... Part of me cant help but wonder... Are people mining bitcoin on my pc with lua the way some websites do with my browser?

I admittedly did use reductio ad absurdum to drive my point home But that was used in an emphasizing way to further drive home the well argued points. Also your reductionist examples are all things I have seen on labels and instructions or would not be surprised to see.. even the chainsaw one.. I will bet you can find instructions for chainsaws that include many warnings about not touching/handling the tooth covered chain unless it properly disabled. I'm not gonna argue with you George Carlin quote, I completely agree with that. And personally I came late to this game, bought a bunch of alts shortly after starting, now I just lost hope and dont waste time on du anymore unless some miracle occurs... I'm not sour about the cash, what does piss me off is the companies attitude and actions. My only point here is that there are laws, rules, regulations and governing bodies that do actually address these types of issues, and toa / buyer beware are not simple outs. Society does have systems in place that protect consumers and place the burden on the seller/advertisers to prevent misleading the consumer. To call this a scam is to say "they promise or imply one thing with their promotional and sales material but knowingly and with forethought fail to deliver it" Does du present it outwardly as something it far from lives up to.. yes As long as they have the "beta" tag I believe no judge would rule against them in a false advertising suit though. So right now their only escape is that they use the beta label as an "industry standard and expected common knowledge that the product is unfinished, and thus justify their marketing and promotional material as showing the proposed goal of the finished product" Is their intent with the promotional material to scam people.. oh hell yes.. they know full well the average new sub is signing up and paying expecting the experience presented in the video on their website.. they clearly have intent Is it common sense that they cant be held liable for the customers lack of due dilligence.. yes Are they safe as long as the have the beta tag.. most likely If they remove the beta tag will a lawsuit against them succeed. Possible but unlikely But is it a scam.. not is it legally actionable fraud.. is their behaviour intent on misleading many people who ultimately purchase their product based on the misleading representation.... hell yes!!!

Oh, I won't be wasting my time or money on this... that's not my point here I'm just saying you cant argue "it's not a scam because you could have discovered the truth through due dilligence and researching third party info" A scam is defined by the actions of the scammer.. false advertising can even negate fine print and toa. The scammee lacking due diligence or falling for an easily avoided scam doesnt in any way make it less of a scam. "Yeah you honor, I robbed the vic at gunpoint in that alley, but it's commonly available knowledge that this alley is where people get mugged.. it's the victims fault for walking down this alley"

Pretty much all developed nations have laws against false advertising.. the degree to which these are enforced, the way they are interpreted and applied vary from region to region, court to court and judge to judge But generally speaking, in this type of case you would dealing with 2 main arguments The plaintiff would argue false advertising in the promotional materials The defendant would argue the delivered product adherent to the agreed terms and conditions The false advertising claim is NOT undone just by a simple TOA argument The gov agencencies involved in advertising regulation enforcement like the FTC and the relevant laws are not just simple contract law, they are specifically focused on advertising and regulation of relevant activities.. eg Fine print and qualifications It is common practice for advertisements to include some information in fine print. This information must not contradict the overall message of the advertisement. Bait advertising Bait advertising takes place when an advertisement promotes certain (usually ‘sale’) prices on products that are not available or available only in very limited quantities. It is not misleading if the business is upfront in a highly visible, clear and specific manner about the particular product ‘on sale’ being in short supply or on sale for a limited time. These are just a couple of examples of how toa and fine print doesnt let you get away with anything... Again every region has it's own agencies responsible for regulating these things.. but all of them dont just say "hey.. you agreed to the toa, so anything goes".. they attempt to create a fair and reasonable framework to reign in abusive and misleading behaviour

To be fair, the du website, promotional videos and materials paint a picture of a game which it not only fails to deliver but in all honesty is likely not possible to ever deliver. The scenes of mass close quarters combat and crowded areas running lag free are complete misrepresentation and you cant blame someone for feeling scammed. Saying "you should have done your due diligence" doesnt make the email from that guy claiming to be a Nigerian prince not a scam. Du is still luring in subs based on complete misrepresentation of what the reality of du is. I would say this level of misrepresentation goes beyond "positive spin pr" or "avoiding showcasing product weaknesses".. The only thing they can cling to is the "fine print" of "we said its beta and still under construction" under the premise that they intend to deliver the game as advertised eventually, and if they fail to do so they can use a bunch of excuses they will claim were unforeseeable to dismiss claims they were intentionally misleading There are laws in many places that do actually combat the "fine print" loopholes.. where a more common sense approach is used to determine if the seller misrepresented the deliverable If you look at what they present and what they deliver, I dont think it's a stretch to classify this as a scam

Watching this all I could think was "this feels familiar... how much you wanna bet the new venture capital investor taking control of DU would see this video as a how-to guide"

Force them all to play the game 1 hour per day, on a fresh account to understand how how broken the economy is And make them use a vpn connected to a random geographical location each time so they can feel our lag pain

Yeah, cause ability to have cool lua screen animations is what should be priority right? That's what everyone wants/needs most. I guess if they break the previous standard it does mean a lot of old screens stop working so in a way it might help a bit when tones of those screens at market now do nothing... assuming the broken code just stops loading and rendering. if your priority is lua screen lag, how abou a toggle for "only load my lua and NQ lua", and/or "my, my org, and NQ lua" All these lua features and screens are SUPER NEAT guys... but you know what would actually help save the game..... fix the GAME aspect The whole premise of having such advanced and intricate in game programming that auto loads for all players, and is executed client side on every users box just fundamentally has performance issues... You know why web pages work? Cause I only load the sites I want, one at a time.. if I open to many tabs my computer will lag and eventually implode. The same principle applies to contructs and voxels. You cant just keep trying to distract everyone from the fundamental issues.. -Lag -No game mechanics, less fun than my day job -Broken economy -Killed the free building experience and didnt even get the civ building you wanted -Your skills tree doesnt create orgs and civs if people can just create an army of alt slaves... a supply chain of many player have to split the profit between each specialized player, but one guy with alts can just undercut them in market so much they make almost nothing per player when they split their profits -Legacy of bugs/exploits built into a massive wealth inequality If your goal is to solve lua screen lag.. just let me toggle off other people's lua But clearly it wasnt lag.. it was "hey. Let's improve the rendering quality of the screen so people can create even cooler animations that no one else will ever see because we refuse to address our core issues" Seriously... are they just playing this game in house connected directly to server with high end computers and 0 local latency thinking "what will make my local network play experience better?

Twice people added D but in my mind D is just C with different wording.. plus C includes a marketing push to "pump" before the "dumpl" lol

Well the "response" was so superficial and lacking substance I think most of us are hardly put at ease, especially with the hilariously positive comments on a thread that we cannot comment on. So... do you think they will A) continue as always, no real change In attitude or actions B)finally get it together, admit game is far from ready, made some big mistakes, and in need of rollback/overhaul/alpha state C)release a bunch of unrealisrically positive statements, do marketing push, and just cash grab anyway possible before running it into the grave

This is the fallacy of many of those labeled "ahead of his time genius" JC was not the first to have this particular flavor of mmo dream, it has been independently dreamed up by tons of people. He just tried to do it way before it was feasible while other experienced and knowledgeable developers knew it was a wild goose chase with that eras technology Now the tech is arriving and others are starting in on the dream too, but they are not burdened by a codebase that was trying to compensate for older crappy technology and network infrastructure. Du is like an steam engine automobile Everyone else knew the idea was riddiculous and not practical. Now there is gasoline e and everyone is designing cars. Nq is trying to adapt their steam powered automobile to gasoline, and surprise surprise it's a complete mess And now there will be a few fanboys left saying... "all these new cars are just imitating JCs steam powered automobile".. not realizing he didnt come up with the idea.. he was just the only one dumb enough to try to build an automobile with a steam engine It was a fun experiment, even if all it really did was prove "tech not there yet... tech not there yet... tech not there yet..... tech arriving but this project is a rats nest, it would be a good time for someone to start from scratch"

Exactly I keep seeing people saying they hope this new ceo will take a shot at saving the company... Changing ceo and the VC taking control are not the same Its time to go liquid.. sale sale sale.. everything must go.

Actually no Ai, VC, and pe all operate on the same principle Yes, invest and drive growth, but ALL plan to exit in relatively short term Traditionally ai invest smaller, then comes VC, often ai cashes out when VC comes in, then pe or a large Corp comes on and VC sells out Sometimes the company is successfull enoigh to stand alone, and they buy the vc out, but this is rare Most fail and trigger an exit strategy I know this because I am well educated in this field, I am a certified financial advisor, go to many ai and VC forums and industry events The mantra of ai and VC is "exit exit exit". They dont run companies.. they flip them like a day trader flips stocks And they are very strict about cutting losses and getting out according to a predefined schedule

Farewell DU I barely knew you I love this game, i will be so happy if it survives But venture capital is part of the angel investor, VC, PE chain.... they are all focused on exit strategy... to hope they will try to build and a run a company is a fools dream. Vc is all about the exit The VC taking control is near certain death.. it means they no longer will sit in background, the only thing a VC knows how to do is prepare for and execute their exit strategy I guess all we can hope for now is an M&A exit, and the slim chance the game is picked up by someone who will finish it off.. but I'm not holding my breath.. I guess it's time for starbase.. funny that the VC takes over right as starbase early access is about to come out.. maybe their industry consultants are telling them starbase will eat up much of the tiny market du has left. Regardless.. I prefer du.. but starbase looks like it actually has a GAME.. fps shooting, cutting into hull and killing pilot, pvp, etc... so even if I as a highly technical player would prefer the du model, I think it may appeal to a much broader player base and have a much larger market Oh DU... I hardly knew you

Dont want to get banned and I hear this question may lead to that outcome

As I just said.. I think when the time comes. It's likely full release will be a fresh server but the keep beta as a legacy alive. That way they keep their no more wipes promise.. hut also get a fresh start upon full release

I think a wipe for full , if the get there, is inevitable. Orrrr.... they could keep their "no more wipe" policy.... Just keep the beta server but make full release a whole new blank server.. and keep beta server around as a legacy With everything that I have read about that has happened the entire system need to be polished off and finalized then wiped so they can offer a fresh world to a new larger audience. A proper full launch would mean marketing and potentially huge player base. If all the current stuff is rolled over it will pollute the integrity of a fresh start. Besides I think 0.23 killed the population largely because it made the time vestments and progress which was previously a good strategy(building everything yourself) into the worst strategy Imagine you played mage in an mmo, but after leveling for months they nerfed all spells so bad the mage was completely unplayable.. of course you just quit. A wipe would likely bring alot of those players back because they would feel like it's a fresh start... assuming they can trust they won't spend months on a strat that gets nerfed into oblivion