BonemanJones

Nevermind

Bumping this thread a little but a quality system, tied to a few other systems could be seriously engaging, AND difficult for megafactories to monopolize. Here's an outline of my thoughts. I'm using T3 Atmospheric Engines as an example. It's a "what could have been" outline, because I believe the game in it's current state is too far gone to implement this. All of these systems would have to be implemented at the same time, in addition to 2-4 other large content drops in order to not saturate one facet of the gameplay offered. 1.) [Streamlining] Element tiers can remain, but the "military, freight, maneuver, etc" designations wouldn't. Higher tiers would still require higher tier ores and parts to create. 2.) [Quality] Introduce "Quality" stat. Creating a T3 L Atmo Engine from the standard recipe yields a 1* quality. Creating a T3 L Atmo Engine from the standard recipe, and including additional parts yields a 2*-5* quality, offering stat bonuses and aesthetic differences. 3.) [Stats] Introduce stat bonuses from aesthetic/accessory modules. For example, the standard flight seat offers no bonuses. A flight seat of 2* quality that includes tanned and dyed leather (4a), or custom woven textiles (4c) that improves comfort/morale and offering the pilot "sharpness" that manifests as a 10% bonus to maneuverability. 4.) [Special Resources] Introduce resources that cannot be mass-farmed cheaply and must be actively acquired. For instance, isotopes of certain ores that only exist under specific circumstances. Ores with short half-lives that must be immediately processed into an alloy, or will degrade. Materials obtained from new features. 4a.) Introduction of animals could be a way of adding materials tied to them. A form of silicon that only exists on the shells of certain creatures or exists as a biological by-product. Leather from harvesting animals. 4b.) Material formed under intense heat and pressure from an asteroid impact. 4c.) Organic fibers or other material acquired through farming specific plants. 5) [Specialization] Through the existing talents system (should be redone from the ground up as a system that rewards active use of skills, not just passive investment) you could specialize in mass production, or artisanal production. Solo players and small orgs of artisans could get bonuses to efficiency/production time etc. Would rank up and progress through actively producing high quality parts. Application A megafactory as it currently exists does so because of a near limitless inflow of minable ores and deep coffers of quanta. They are able to mine through a network of passive miners and players, and purchase materials through the market. Under my system they would still be able to do so, but by following only the standard recipe, their T3 L Atmo Engines are 1* quality, offering only base stats for Tier 3. So while a 1* T3 L Atmo Engine requires only base ingredients, wouldn't they be able to create a 2* with the same process? No. A 2* T3 L Atmo Engine would require a specific alloy made from an unstable isotope of iron not able to be acquired from passive miners. Individual players would need to acquire it by prospecting for asteroid impact sites (4b) that yield enough of the isotope for 2-7 complete 2* engines. (This is a potential vector for on the ground combat based PvP). A 3* would require this alloy in addition to a silicon isotope gathered from a predatory chitinous animal that only spawns during specific weather, and so on. Economics What's to stop the rich DU oligarchs from buying all of these special materials off of the market and having 5* quality megafactories? Here are some potential solutions. 1.) Character bind special materials. A heavy handed approach that I do not prefer, but would force megafactory owners to do their own legwork. 2.) Gathering special materials solo, the effort required to get enough to run 5 lines producing more than 1* T3 Atmo Engines would far surpass the factory's ability to output product. Ergo, a megafactory with 50 production lines, would not be able to exceed the production of a solo player or small org with on 3 production lines based solely on material acquisition time. 3.) If these materials are sufficiently challenging to acquire, players will either hold on to them for their own artisan production, or sell them for a large profit. A megafactory owner COULD purchase the iron isotope alloy from the market, but the price would likely be far in excess of the cost of a single 1* engine. With realistic production constraints from requiring a scarce component, megafactories output of 2*+ elements would be low, and they would have to charge very high prices to make the effort worth it. The inconvenience of doing the legwork is a deterrent for players used to their factories doing the work for them. 4.) On the other hand, a solo player or small org going out to acquire the iron isotope gets to price their labor as they see fit. They did not spent any quanta acquiring it, only time. This makes it much more possible to undercut the megafactories without taking a loss. Megafactories MAY take a loss in the beginning, but the high prices for higher quality elements would chew through their coffers. This is the financial deterrent. Making artisanal elements is easier to do as a solo player or small org where ACTIVELY engaging in gameplay elements is what rewards you with the needed material. NOT simply having a massive factory infrastructure and deep pockets. Parting Thoughts I don't believe the system I've outlined above could be implemented now. It would need to have been included upon launch of the Beta, alongside every system in-game now and more. As I said in the intro, the problem is oversaturation of gameplay elements. In the early days of the DU Beta, almost every single person had their own factory pumping out all the elements and parts they needed, which made the market unnecessary. Industry was the single most fleshed out gameplay element (arguably the only one) there was, so everyone flocked to it immediately. Upon the release of 0.23 players were left with nothing to do, and left. Fast forward a year and a half and aside from a couple of additions like missions, the content situation still looks a bit bleak. Were my ideas alone implemented now I believe 90% of current, returning, and new players would flock to it immediately, and when everyone is an artisan, nobody is an artisan. Completed, quality parts would flood the market in weeks, and the people who wanted to make artisan products (not the people who did it because there was nothing else to do) would be left in a situation akin to the markets right now. Where raw materials cost just as much (or more) than finished products, and the time investment of playing the new content didn't make the effort worth it. The only way I could see this being implemented now is if it also pertained to other newly introduced gameplay systems I haven't mentioned here.

Replying to this late, but I believe this system would work perfectly in these scenarios. Engine voxels would definitely have their own texture, and one end would be different for the exhaust. If you made an engine look like a door it would be horrendously underpowered and for all intents and purposes, useless. I'm not sure I understand why someone would do that, so could you explain that further? As for pvp, a single stack of voxels as an engine would have very low thrust. On an M core, if someone had a 1x1x128 size engine, their thrust would be 128 arbitrary units, and all it would take is one voxel in that engine to be damaged to cripple it. Someone making an engine at 8x8x20 would have 10 times the thrust force, be far more durable, and be using space much more economically. In fact, I would wager that this would be better for pvp because it rewards intelligent ship design. Make your engines long and slender for an interceptor style ship that is intended to face either directly at or away from an enemy. This allows a small frontal cross-section, but a large side or top cross section. The meta would effectively be whatever ship works best for the role it is meant to occupy.

Yep. Simple but useful

Emerson IV My first fully fleshed out M core.

After completing several ship builds over the past few months and really digging into the voxel editor, I've found that the biggest limiting factor to my creativity has been the checklist of elements that are required for any ship to function. The Problem: I'll use engines as an example. All basic atmospheric engine L's are the exact same size. They all output the same thrust. Same fuel consumption, etc. There is a distinct number of them that I will need on my ship if I want to lift a Container L. But what if I want my ship designed with only one massively powerful engine instead of twelve relatively smaller engines? With the current system of elements that isn't possible. Elements as they currently exist occupy the role of function while honeycombs occupy the role of aesthetics/armor. For a pure pve ship, using anything but elements is an active detriment to it's functional performance. For a pvp ship, the meta dictates the optimal style/aesthetic (currently a flying cube). This creates a situation where you aren't really designing a ship so much as designing a socket for each necessary component. Effectively a box with a seat in it strapped to some engines. Actual ship design would necessitate many internal components, not just all-in-one elements to be bolted to the hull. Currently ship design (for any type of hauler) requires the entire back end of the vessel to be a wall of engines to maximize thrust. The Solution: I am suggesting a merging of elements and voxels so that you are able to define the size and shape of your elements. Engines would exist in the form of a voxel, and function as such. The same can be done for containers, fuel tanks, doors, windows, ailerons, brakes, etc. How would voxel based elements work? Another game with this build system is Avorion, which fits into the space simulation builder genre (you can look up speed builds on YouTube to get a good idea for how the builder works). You can define an area to function as your engines. With this system you could have the exact same engine footprint. The same weight, thrust, fuel consumption, etc. However, you are now free to style the back end of the ship around one engine instead of many because it's shape and orientation are different. Using my masterful skills of paint I've illustrated a comparison of how things are now versus what I'm suggesting. These two ships would have identical weight, thrust, fuel consumption etc. because they have the same volume of engines, just spread differently. Voxel based elements would be manufactured just like elements are currently, but instead of outputting a singular object, it would output a volume of voxels, much like the honeycomb refinery does. One voxel of engine would have a set amount of thrust. A voxel of container, a set capacity etc. The larger the element, the more capacity/thrust/fuel/weight... What exactly is gained from this? Most of the benefit of this is aesthetic, but there is some importance to that. Have you guys seen the Facebook ads and YouTube trailers for DU? Most of them are featuring interesting looking ships to showcase what can be done in the game. The reality is that the markets are littered with ships that are nothing more than engines strapped to a container with a stack of wings. There is a distinct "sameness" to most of the ships I see and it's because I'm staring at the exact same engines and wings and hovers on every one of them. I believe this damages the atmosphere of the game, especially for new players looking to see all sorts of cool ships, or build them, and then end up having to meet the same "checklist" of parts and being restricted. Additionally though, you would be able to make better use of space within a ship. Containers could be long and thin for a specific type of ship or more square to fit where they need to. Most of an engine could be internal so it is longer instead of wider. Larger drive cores could offer reduced cooldowns. I'd like to hear some of your feedback. Bad idea, good? Waste of time? Let me know!

Honestly, I think elements themselves in their current form are a big part of the problem. I'm putting together a post better explaining this, but I think there should be honeycomb voxels, and element voxels, similar to the way the build system in Avorion works. Instead of having a set Engine L that you need to make fit on your ship, engines would be designed the same as you design your ship, and weight/thrust/fuel consumption would all be based on it's size. Elements as they currently exist could still remain untouched for people who don't want to take the time to build their own engines, but elements greatly stifle creativity IMO.