Penwith

I am not hoping, I am suggesting. And neither am I pissing on someone else and calling it rain.

@NQ, While I am not a naysayer regarding 0.23, and I heartily agree with the changes, overall... The more sensible posts of opposition have made a point that I happen to agree with, more opportunities for players to feel a sense of wonder and/or success and progression are needed ASAP, as opposed to a few months from now. My words should not be taken as being regarding only the acquisition of wealth, although for many players that is their primary near-term concern. Instead, my position is that a player just joining the game with a beta subscription has very little to do that is exciting. There's much in the intention of possible futures, but this game is competing for a finite amount of time to be spent on gaming in the midst of a highly competitive industry. Therefore, the primary concern, in my view, is adding content in the immediate future, that causes a player to WANT to return to the game, beyond the "minecraft in space" experience. Of course, squashing game-breaking bugs is critically important and should be a priority, but the lack of apparent opportunity, whether true or not, causes potential new players, and also new players to think twice about playing this game. There is tremendous promise within DU, even though we do not all agree as to the method that such promise should or is to be realized, I think most mature players will agree that they clearly see the potential, and even accept that the development process requires time to bring forth its fruit. However, this game's appeal and potential market of customers is not only to a select group of people, but a wider audience who come into a game with certain expectations, 1) it will be fun, and 2) it will be worth the financial and time investment. Obviously, this game is not meant for players to hit "end game" access to T5 products within a matter of weeks or even months, but more like a year or more. And I am completely fine with this. On the other hand, beyond building ground facilities, space facilities, or ships, there's not much else except mining and what strained efforts at pvp/piracy there are. True, wrecks and the ship event brought to us, but honestly, these appeal to a fraction of the players and not everyone even had an opportunity to participate in the most recent event. If we cannot do it, it really does not exist for us, at least in the short-term. Admittedly, the industry change has slowed down progression and certain opportunities (such as affording a good space hauler or fast courier ship) even more, and overall I am totally fine with this. Yet, what else is there for a player to do upon logging in? Yes, they can seek to make money or build. Both of which are worthy goals and have more than one option available. Great. What is there to keep a new player interested in returning? Or an old salt, for that matter? Exploration is what originally drew me to this game. The ability to name new planets/moons has a certain appeal to me. And while we are not there yet, I do hope that such is in the future of DU. But... What about now or next month or three months from now? A mission system was mentioned, most recently in the stream on Monday, but also previously. Terrific! That will be something to pursuit when it arrives. What can be done before that blessed day? Some have asked for PVE, presumably NPC pirates or maybe dangerous fauna or even flora. Of course, these will take development and resources, which in turn require an investment of money and time in their creation. These also have some interest for me. So, what about before the end of this calendar year? Can the mission system, at least an early form of it, make it into the game for us to test out and mess around with over the Christmas holiday season? I teach school, so that works for me, but many people tend to have extra time during this part of the year (in the year of covid), unless they are in sales (poor sods). If the mission system cannot see an introduction, how about a special mining/relay event, kind of an "intercept Santa's helpers" event where players mine out special ores, which then must be transhipped to a location on another planet, warp being disabled for ships carrying this ore), with the winning team getting a prize, and all participants receiving various rewards depending on their participation level? Even pvp players could get involved, trying to capture the ores for themselves, to deliver to the appropriate location. Maybe we can all get a special schematic, or do a short mission to receive it as a reward, for industry to make special and specific event containers to hold this special event ore. How about planting research stations, or facilities, as part of the wrecks feature, which have a few lower tier (t2-t3) schematics and perhaps a chance at a higher tier ones (t4-t5)? Perhaps a ship building contest were we all receive a package of ship parts (all the same) and the goal is to make the 1) fastest ship, 2) best designed (aesthetically), or 3) most indestructable, or something along those lines? A final thought, maybe players are given special holiday season tokens, which are awarded each day they log in, between now and 10 January (or whenever), which can be saved or spent on various decorative elements (made special for the even) or ship parts that have a unique skin. These are just things I thought of while typing this post. I am positive that others have thoughts of they own towards easy (relatively) to create and mange events or content that will help keep players in a positive mood, in spite of all the negativity being proclaimed by those most bent out of shape over the recent changes. I do invite anyone else with other content suggestions, for near-term, and are easy to manage/create, to share here, too. We don't always have to agree or even get along, but I believe that most all of us here would like this game to be the most fun and entertaining version of itself that it can be. Also, can we please just save our demands for a wipe or a return to pre-patch for other threads, among those that already exist, for example? Regardless of whether or not you think these ideas are worthy of consideration, at least give the credence to the spirit in which I have delivered them. Penwith Dread killer of chickens, Scourge of raccoons, and Devourer of pecan pie.

Well, it is a foul-smelling and foul-tasting vegetable. Better than rotten eggs, I suppose.

If only more people around here would not overly worry about the economic strength or capacity of others. Worrying about how much money another guy has never does help our situation. Besides, things can change in a single moment, as one giga-factory owner found out, the hard way, in the recent past.

No, you do not have to do everything I do. You simply choose to. Although you cannot loot schematics, I am certain that in the near-future, piracy will become very lucrative, even without 600m schematics. I've visited these forums in the last week merely because it was convenient for me to do so, at this time. Before then, I barely paid them any attention, only really because of the patch and the outcry or demand for other changes. Frankly, it's too much Johnny One-Note to hang around for long. I understand far more than you realize, but I do not have to prove anything to you as I am able to play this game according to my own purposes which wholly do not involve you. So, while you and others rant and make threats, I enjoy spending time, talking to my org mates, and doing my own thing in my way. Which this patch did not hinder in the least.

Or just buy the core from someone else who made the investment, saving you a lot of money by doing so.

No one forced you to build a ship dedicated to the anti-social behavior of ganking people/pirating. You made that choice of your own free will. Now that industry costs far more to start up than your ship, their effort and expense is much greater than your own. But, it's all about you...

You continue to type. I imagine you are saying something to me, but whatever. I added to my own words, not bothering with yours. Good luck with the game. Maybe another game will suit you better.

except the schematic is a 1 time purchase for each. So, you can make a lot more than that. Beyond that, you can mine and sell raw ore, which costs little beyond time, or fuel if you are ranging further out from your base. Did you check out the functionality on your nanopack, btw? While no one really likes going through massive changes, it did need to happen. I'd rather it before pvp is revamped and improved, before territory wars, and before a lot of other content is brought into the game. True, some find the current opportunities boring, but this is beta, and future content is not only promised, but expected. I imagine we will see some of that sooner than we might have, now that this big hurdle has been crossed (although I am sure there will be tweaks here and there).

you receive 100k, per day, in cash. So, you have a steady income, merely by logging on. If you do play with a group, then pool resources, do not duplicate schematics, at least at the start, and work cooperatively, at least with industry. You'll not only be more efficient, but productive. The talent cost for learning the initial tiers for each industry are quite low, actually much lower than I'd expected, especially for L and XL assemblers. This game is meant, by design, to be a long-term game, not something that you reach the end game in a couple of months. Good luck!

I have no idea what you wrote, because I didn't read it. However, there are spreadsheets that exist that players can use as an assistant for building ships. The person using the one I am most familiar with can toggle their level of talents, or not. It is quite a simple tool to use and needs no additional programming from NQ to utilize. So, after thinking it over, I withdraw my previous support of your suggestion. It isn't needed frankly, as players have already provided an answer, for free.

Numbers. It is simply a matter of math to run the numbers on what thrust to weight ratio will work from the standard. Continue to type like a mess and you can expect less people to respond to you.

Prove it. No, really. Prove your point. Where is your factual evidence that only the larger orgs bought up all of the L cores? Go on, bring out the market scripts and spreadsheets that prove your allegations. Weeks ago, as the devblogs we coming out for this patch, several of the people I talk to realized that they wanted L cores, so a few of these folks bought more than one. I almost bought two, myself, but decided to let things sort themselves out as hoarding and speculation are things I am not interested in supporting. See, anecdotes are fun, but completely useless in support of a factual argument. There were still L cores available just a couple of days ago, I checked the prices as I was considering selling, but again that's not my play-style, to sell off useful items for a quick buck. It did not take a genius to see that higher end items, from dynamic L cores to territory scanners, to container hubs, and so on, would be bought up or withdrawn from the market. All in anticipation of either a shortage or for the purposes of manipulating the sale price immediately after the patch hits, in the hopes that worried players will pay outrageous sums. I am beginning to think that some of the loudest moaners on these forums are purposely driving panic, so that they can profit off the newer players or those without a lick of sense, in game. It takes zero insider info to do this, only cynicism and a measure of greed. Those who bang the drums loudest aren't necessarily the most correct, just the loudest. Although the possibility for insider info exists, that does not make it true here, especially as the devblogs were widely available and not limited in access to a mere few friends of friends. So, instead of casting aspersions, sans any hard evidence, perhaps a calmer approach would be more healthy.

Not a dig at you, mate, but there's a reason for punctuation. In the case of purchasing BPs, one should work with a ship designers whom they trust as far as track record of experience. If a designer takes into consideration the problem you describe, then that is a far better designer than one who ignores the effects of talents in ship performance. As this game is intended to have a considerable shelf-life, the reputation of ship designers will become a thing, as it should, and therefore word of mouth will certainly let you know whether or not a particular design from a certain designer will be more worthwhile than not. This would not be an immediate situation, of course, but will certainly begin to occur before full release.

Or, perhaps just set the talent level as a part of creating the blueprint. However, as I understand if, you have someone who has higher talents than you do create the item from the BP, then the construct gets the benefit of their talent level. That being that case, the current status may be a reflection of intent, as in working with others to get the best efficiency. Either way, if it is an easy addition, I'd support it. I always like more options.

At yet you can still address the possibilities from the perspective of what exists, or will as of tomorrow, in the game, and not at some date on the calendar 2023. The game does not become unplayable as of 0.23. Some may adjust their play style (I won't need to), but others might see an opportunity to make money via the market, when they were not already doing so. I am not stating this is the best patch ever in the history of patches, but I am merely choosing to look to the future and not piss in the pool before leaving.

There's a YT video of the stream. Watch it.

You assume too much. If you have a mega-factory, then you have a ready supply of goods to sell to make the cash necessary for schematics, assuming you've spent everything already. If you are a new player, this just slow rolls the game as it was meant to be. Don't come crying. Look forward to the possibilities of the game.

So, go find someone who doesn't mind mining and source your ore from them. What is the value of raw ore? Whatever price you can agree on with a buyer. If you think the prices are too low, build with it and create a good that is selling or likely to sell at a greater profit to you. You can still create most everything yourself, it just won't be as quickly done nor as cheaply as it has in the past. Which is not a terrible thing. Ez-mode industry is over. All hail industry as it should be.

I am very much looking forward to the industry changes, even with my small factory setup. I do believe it is the right direction to go, for the long-term. The others in my org have told me they feel the same way about it as I do. I am even creating, right now as I type this, starter factories for people who join my org after the patch, to give them a leg up. Other orgs already have this, for people not even in their org. Did you watch the stream? Lots of stuff upcoming, some, including some very nice QoL changes, with 0.23. It is a paid beta, or a paid early release if you will, so resub or not, these changes are happening, regardless of the moaning and numbers of Chicken Littles scampering about Discord and the forums. New stuff, especially with pvp is on the horizon. We are closer to it now than before, which is a far sight better than being further away from it, after this time. It's not the end of the world. These changes do need to happen. Sure, things may well be tweaked a bit, but being a solo-I can do it all, does not add to the longevity of this game, being said from a player who is nearly always playing solo. I and my friends in the org are discussing where we intend to focus our industrial efforts, and will need to continue that conversation going forward. This is not a bad thing.

Would probably be better implemented through pirate bases (space cores) with player markets. With the "player-driven" design philosophy, which featured largely in the early discussion, and then gets a serving of it now and again, any bots that buy/sell, beyond those items which NEED a bot seller (like the new schematics), fail to meet that standard. Cash drains on the economy do exist, but there are few atm (claiming hexes, creating orgs). The real problem with regard to cash and the need for more or larger draining of it is that it is far too easy to scan a hex, mine the lucrative ores or meganodes and move on. Those who become cash-rich in this manner are then more free to do the same on the rest of the moons and planets beyond Alioth, whereas the remaining players are scrambling over the leftovers. Slowing down the "locust effect" needs to happen, not the draining of cash from players who are not already wealthy.

Hell, yes! There's all sorts of QoL improvements they should be making now, not just before full release.

No, this is where org vs org combats will bring more meaningfulness to the efforts of mining and industry, but I see what you are trying to say. I'm not a pirate and have no inclination to ever be one, but I allow that others do get a thrill out of doing so. Instead of a weapon that gives someone else control over your ship and when you can destroy elements you own, there's an easier solution. When containers take damage, they have an increasing change of having cargo escape into space. So, the greater percentage of damage to the container, the greater chance of each piece of cargo flying out the gaping hole. With this, the cargo should take on the same bearing of travel and velocity as the hauler (or target ship), speeding off into the vastness of space unless picked up by the pirate or someone who lucks upon it floating by them. In such instances, the pirate(s) could either keep after the ship, and likely lose sight of the now free cargo, or go after the cargo. A smart hauler pilot would then plot a new course, creating distance and therefore choices for his antagonist(s) to choose from. Yes, the debris should show up on radar, but I'd suggest at a much more proximate range, perhaps at half or a quarter of normal radar range.

Funnily enough, you sound butthurt. I am fine, either way, as I am just typing here as I await scans. No statement of mine was erroneous, as I have already explained to you. You simply read into them what you did. Instead of accept my explanation and further clarification, you continued to argue otherwise. That's on you, not me. Yes, my statement of "reality bends to the game" is an actual consideration when creating games; more correctly it is the maneuvering between realism and playability, which has existed in the modern gaming world since at least the 1960s, but began with H.G. Well's "LIttle Wars" and Fletcher Pratt's naval wargame rules from the 1920s. Thus my statement is not a contradiction at all. Games and simulations base on the real world need to also consider the game or playability aspect, otherwise it would not be fun. I acknowledge reality this with my statement. Yes, this totally avoids sounding at all condescending or verging on insulting. In my case, I just laughed. I'll insert here that the theorized tachyon particles are argued by many to be faster than light, but so far none can prove they exist. But I digress. Again, not at all condescending in your mind, at least. As such condescension is generally found to be insulting by the greater population, I imagine you declare yourself guiltless in this matter. I am not offended, because I refuse to give that power to anyone, being that to be offended one must allow oneself to become so. That you maintain otherwise is, again, your call, but I am sincerely not offended. I just believing in treating people like for like, especially on the internet. You are verging on the obtuse here. I established a baseline, a foundation, and then built from that point. You have read far more into what I wrote in that regard and refuse to accept my correction of your misapprehension. We can approach 1.0c or light speed, or as I wrote accelerate to it (or towards it if that is more helpful to you). People have an conceptualization to greater or lesser degrees of what that is, and is therefore a useful point from which to start a discussion on speed or velocity in space. It is also useful to mention as my suggested change includes .3c or maybe even .5c as the new maximum speed limit, but mentioning what "c" is before hand, helps to ensure we all understand the context of the points of argument. I do not care that you disagree, but you have failed to state in this thread why you do. That's as useful as popping in to write "NO!" and leaving. There's nothing substantial there, and is just as easily dismissed as trolling. Disagree with substance, not with snide remarks. Point of fact, you really just jumped in to pick a fight, so to speak, leaving nothing more substantive as an argument, at least in your initial post. When faced with my counter, you kept at it, instead of accepting that your first contention was based on a faulty assumption on your part. Would you rather I write using a limited vocabulary, keeping my words to one or two syllables at most? Nothing I have written is gibberish, but each statement is meant to be read in the context written, following previous sentences or paragraphs, like stepping stones. Post or don't post a reply. It matters not to me. But neither can you escape the fact that you made an instant decision from the shield of anonomyity and refuse to accept that what you thought was erroneous on my part was not at all what you took it to be, despite my repeated explanation that you were wrong to do so.

Absolutely true and one reason why I think a self-destruct element should not be out of the question.