Umibozu

Hello all,
 
Let me put a disclaimer here, i have already vented my anger on discord,
 
Let us begin.
 
A. It is obvious at this point that:
 1. Decision making NQ Staff has NEVER played the game in its current state, There is enough evidence to prove that in all interviews and Q&As to date. That of course includes JC.
 2. Important questions regarding state of the game, future plans, community has been asking are being avoided and ignored.
 3. Patch 0.23 has been rushed, no proof reading, poorly executed, poorly implemented.
 4. Customer Service  is lacking.
 5. PR is nonexistent. Community is being treated with disrespect.
 
Dont get me wrong, i consider the changes needed BUT NOT NOW.
 
B.  Before implementation of  element destruction, removal of "Fetch", removal of ALT+F4:
 
   1.Game optimization and server/client stability issues MUST be resolved,
   2. Construct induced lag, fps drops, client crashes MUST BE resolved.( yes MARKETS you want us to use)
 
With the current state of the game  vast majority of ship crash landings, AGG falling from the skies, and many more issues are NOT CAUSED BY HUMAN ERROR.
 
 
C.  Before implementation of disastrous changes to the industry , ( again , changes needed , but not at this point).
 
    1. Alternative ways of progress MUST BE introduced.
    2. Wider variety of resource collection MUST BE introduced to the game.
 
DONT EVER THINK OF MAKING MINING HARDER AND MORE BORING  AND TEDIOUS than it is now. Unless you dare to risk loosing the remaining community.
 
Element destruction, container content destruction vs PVP.
 
D. YOU HAVE MADE forced pvp obsolete. I am not a fan of piracy but i acknowledge that it is vital part of any sandbox experience
 
Proposed changes:
    1. Allow Recycler to be able to turn components into raw materials, with the amount dependent on state of the item.
    2. Container content deletion upon destruction is STUPID idea, please change it so contents  be taken out of the destroyed storage only.
 
 
If staff has any more questions or would like to me to elaborate , please do so.
 
Regards
 
Umibozu
 
 
 

We are paying for the game to play it as we see fit , not to be told what to do. if we cant play the game in the way we enjoy it , we will move to on one that will let us to so.

Dont forget , how many KL of tier 5 ores  has JC mined, has he ever done the tutorials, how often he visits markets like the rest of us?

I've been lurking for awhile, but felt the urge to make an account based off this.   I want to give my 2 cents with a  lot of posts in here -
 
Content.  I literally started 5 days ago.   It has not been easy to figure everything out (but that's ok).  I'm still learning every day. I happened to be watching some YouTube vid's today on industry, because it interests me.  There should be an end game to mining by producing things, and it should happen fairly early imo.  
 
Really super quick, something as a "5 day old" (LOL) I've been going through..learned how to use my scanner and mine, only to find out it's a terrible pain hauling all the stuff up for sale to the market I'm near...so, researching how to combat that so I can haul more to market...or hauling to my base to use myself.  This is a small example of what a 5 day old goes through, using the logic chain.  I'll figure it out.
 
Back on topic - Looking through some recipes, I noticed they require a S factory.  Fine.  If you take this away, this will limit my ability to build something that I'm VERY much looking forward to (a ship) on my own.  Go to the markets?  Ok.   Using the markets in my limited experience has been not fun.  Only because there's very little there, they're cumbersome to look through and inventory space is always on my mind (and a problem).  I get what you're trying to do, and it's smart on paper, but I'm not sure it's going to work out in real life.  You WANT people to build and create things, that is the ARCHITECTURE of your game.  I'm not sure mining for 3+ months (total estimate in my head) to get ahead is fun.  I don't want to mine every day for several months and have it the only thing I can do.  I know we're in Beta but still.  I feel like at this point, there needs to be more work on content.  I bought a 2 month sub.  If I don't feel like I'm getting ahead, and BUILDING things (the draw of the game for me) and turn into some corp mine slave, I will not resub.  It's really that simple for me.
 
I will go down this path you've created to see where it leads, but I promise I will not, and am not interested in only mining.

I find thats an awesome statement, with some very constructive criticism. Like from here +1
But it seems you havnt understood yet what the course of the game was intentionally was.
It was allways intended that people are not needed to go mining, but its just one of many sources to make money.
This patch helps to boost the Trading, so that people trade more and mine less.
In my over 3 years with allmost 4000 hours of playing DU, the beta had the worst experience so far, because everyone was forced to go mining.
The markets are not used much rn, because trading ores give the best profit.
Not many people were trading Elements or Honeycomb, because Ore gave the most money and everyone had theyr own industry to produce anything on theyr own within a month or two.
With this patch you will see allmost empty markets at first, because everyone will buy anything they can, befor the prizes will rise to never seen hights.
So this is your chance to make a lot of Quanta you will need after the patch. Not for buying ore, but for buying Elements others produce.
After the patch the markets will fill again with very high prizes at first, but then the market will regulate itself to a very low prize again for Elements for a short time until they are all sold and even big orgs have sold anything from theyr storage to get any quanta they can.
Even components will get a value on the markets, because not everyone will be able to produce final products.
Then it depends on your trading skills, how many money you can get out of it by being active and fast on the markets.
This patch helps to balance the economy without a wipe.
Its far from done, and we will see even more so called "nerfs"... but as i see it as an economist in reallife, that this patch was really needed to make trading more interresting and mining less neccessarry.
Quanta gets much more viable and solo megafactorys within a month without making any profit out of it gets busted.
If you need any trading tips, to get rich, way better than with mining or as an industrialist, just PM me ^^

You're well on the path of going the way of Worlds Adrift.
 
You want to nerf industry because everyone is building their own 'Iphone' - fine - what are they going to do instead? What else is there to do instead? 
 
You want to add element destruction? Great - I'm with you. It needs to happen. But maybe just maybe pairing it with the removal of the Alt-F4 mechanic, removal of Discord support and on top of that nerfing production isn't the best idea? 
 
You think mining is too easy? Grea.....wait what....what? WHAT?! Have you mined in DU? How much? Look, ask anyone who has filled a 10L hub every two nights, there is nothing 'easy' about mining. It's boring. It's tedious. It's concentrated drudgery and one of the primary reasons I don't play DU anymore - but what it is not is 'easy' and never even in my most drunken state (and I admit I sure didn't mine sober) did I think that "Hey maybe if I couldn't link to my 10L hub mining would be better!" . In fact, when linking was broken, I just didn't play the game. 
 
Just the fact that JC thinks that linking is the issue with mining - not literally everything else - makes me lose all faith in his judgment. Of all the things wrong with mining - linking isn't  one of them. Nor is the lack  of "mining hazards"...
 
The community has over and over and over asked for constructs that can mine - empyrion style - give us drills we can put on hovers - give even bigger giant drills we can put on stationary constructs. Give us anything besides handmining because 'easy' it's not - it's at least 7th level of hell grade tedium - and 9th if you have to deal with phantom nodes and pending operations. Unless of course you take my approach, get drunk and watch netflix so that the next day you forget about how hellish mining for 6 hours straight was.
 
Unfortunately I've remembered enough of those nights over time to stop logging in to DU...and the upcoming changes and theroycrafting about the future of mining have made it extremely clear that JC does not play DU either...he may goof around in his castle - but he sure hasn't built a mega factory nor has he mined the ore to get the resources to build his giant fortress if he thinks all those things are too easy...
 
Seriously - JC just logs in - looks at all the stuff others built and his take away is that mining and mega factories are too easy? It took us weeks of drudgery......I can't even...
 
Edit: Also - cores not repairable?! Masterstroke....

Introducing schematics  is going to screw every single player living anywhere except Alioth, as the market in the sticks barely have anything to sell/buy anyway, smaller orgs too.
 
How you gonna balance the price of those schematics?
Will they be one time use?
Will we be able to remove them from industry units, when we decide to remodel or move our factory?
Will the buying /selling bots finally be removed from the game?
 
 

With current state of game its cheaper to warp than hire an escort, so till atmospheric pvp comes in , this duscussion has no merit.
and as why, i detest people deciding to play role of villain, here is an example:
 
Last week there was a player who got ambushed and killed in pvp while he was trying to relocate, slowboating was only option as he could not afford a warp just yet, so he packed all his belongings and tried his luck.
When he got killed , he tried to negotiate release of his ship and his items, and basically got told to bugger of( i am being nice here)
So dont expect from me any help in getting piracy profitable endeavor.

You have decided to play a role of a scum of the galaxy and prey on weak and gullible, and when those found only way to get back at you, you start complaining.
Victims can loose  hours of hard work and millions of quanta so can you.

You have decided to play a role of a scum of the galaxy and prey on weak and gullible, and when those found only way to get back at you, you start complaining.
Victims can loose  hours of hard work and millions of quanta so can you.

With current state of game its cheaper to warp than hire an escort, so till atmospheric pvp comes in , this duscussion has no merit.
and as why, i detest people deciding to play role of villain, here is an example:
 
Last week there was a player who got ambushed and killed in pvp while he was trying to relocate, slowboating was only option as he could not afford a warp just yet, so he packed all his belongings and tried his luck.
When he got killed , he tried to negotiate release of his ship and his items, and basically got told to bugger of( i am being nice here)
So dont expect from me any help in getting piracy profitable endeavor.

Why would a hard working Novean  like myself contributing to society and rebuilding a civilization, should be concerned about  pirates well being?

You have decided to play a role of a scum of the galaxy and prey on weak and gullible, and when those found only way to get back at you, you start complaining.
Victims can loose  hours of hard work and millions of quanta so can you.

Funny, enough people currently make quite a lot in salvage of ships they have captured, so piracy is currently not even close to unviable.
 
Where the question of viability is answered is in the tactics used by the pirates, not by the victim. This is why, from all the evidence I have seen via video, forums, and chat discussions, groups of pirates are far more successful than those who go it alone.
 
With enough firepower brought to bear on a target, in a relatively short period of time, the victim simply runs out of time in the decision loop of "can I make it?" or "screw it all, I've lost everything!" and then begins the process of tossing overboard all of their valuables. And this depends on whether their ship design allows them access to their containers while in flight. Smarter ship designs do, the economical ones quite often won't. Simply viewing the different ships venturing off into space shows us that.
 
This latter fact will change as ship building theory and practice evolves.
 
Also, early on in EVE is not same as here. Losing the vast majority of your major investment to pirates is not an "early on" loss. I lost numerous ships in EVE, some to pirates, most to battles, some to NPCs when I was afk mining, but I always had ready back-ups that I could jump into and go back to what I was doing. In DU, it is quite different, in that few can lose an M core hauler to pirates and then turn around and get into another, similar, ship, load it up with cargo and head back out.  So, it is more of an apples to oranges comparison than not. Also,  in EVE all the combat advantages do not fall on the side of the pirates, like they do currently in DU.
 
For pirates to succeed in this game, there must be a well-grounded mining/industry and space hauling system, where the risk to reward ration is in their apparent favor, but where pirates can infrequently score big payoffs from rich victims. In a situation where the sharks are bigger, faster, and more numerous than the little fish, the risk to reward ratio is so low that haulers will necessarily do everything they can to avoid giving anything to pirates, whether by tossing cargo/destroying ship elements, warping only, or simply not carrying any cargo between worlds outside the safe zone.
 
Of course, there are and will be exceptions, especially when it comes to better organized or larger organizations that can either pay for escorts or provide their own. Yet, the smaller orgs and solo players, will look at the risk and very likely choose from their very poor list of options.
 
I think the long-term viability in piracy requires a much more balanced PVP system (as we can all likely agree), but also an understanding among players who like to steal and destroy the hard work and time investment of others, that if a pirate expects to capture the majority of his victims, soon he will no longer have anyone to BE his victim. Expecting or demanding otherwise is counter to the long-term interests of pirates, regardless of the short-term gain. And if the short-term is your current pirate meta, then I doubt those players will stick around, after "ruining it" for many others.
 
So, in fact, they would not be pirates at all, but trolls...
 
 
 
 

Firstly i didnt say that , secondly hows that relevant?

Yes , they are, they pulled the trigger, piracy is in fact  anti-social behaviour
 
and instead lets say negotiate the quanta payment told him to f**** ***

With current state of game its cheaper to warp than hire an escort, so till atmospheric pvp comes in , this duscussion has no merit.
and as why, i detest people deciding to play role of villain, here is an example:
 
Last week there was a player who got ambushed and killed in pvp while he was trying to relocate, slowboating was only option as he could not afford a warp just yet, so he packed all his belongings and tried his luck.
When he got killed , he tried to negotiate release of his ship and his items, and basically got told to bugger of( i am being nice here)
So dont expect from me any help in getting piracy profitable endeavor.

Thats why in one of the previous posts i mentioned weak and gullible, as majority of players who slowboat are those who cant afford a warp drive. which quite often ends up in them quitting.
You have no idea how many ppl i actually helped with quanta/items so they dont quit after being robbed.

Why would a hard working Novean  like myself contributing to society and rebuilding a civilization, should be concerned about  pirates well being?

You have decided to play a role of a scum of the galaxy and prey on weak and gullible, and when those found only way to get back at you, you start complaining.
Victims can loose  hours of hard work and millions of quanta so can you.

Scorched earth policy existed as  a military strategy for centuries, same as piracy. I call it a legit tactic . Kill the target quick enough so victim can not do it .

You have decided to play a role of a scum of the galaxy and prey on weak and gullible, and when those found only way to get back at you, you start complaining.
Victims can loose  hours of hard work and millions of quanta so can you.

Why would a hard working Novean  like myself contributing to society and rebuilding a civilization, should be concerned about  pirates well being?

Firstly i didnt say that , secondly hows that relevant?

If i was selling ore , i would consider your offer. And yes, in one of the games i have played i did pay some pirates to look  the other way .