Umibozu

With one decision WHOLE purpose of 0.23 patch was just nullified, making very small part of player base very rich, with immediate access to end game items without any investment.
 
I have been patient since day 1 of the Beta. put up with mistakes , bugs, 5 months without new content, but this .... this is a last straw for me.
 
NO, you cant have my stuff
 
Take care
 

I will explain why ppl are angry today , using myself as an example:
 
after 0.23 patch, i had to spend 200 mil quanta on schematics to get my warp cell/warp drive factory running again.
 
the decided to go for long grind for warp beacon production line:
 
Schematics/ rare industry units cost me around 450 mil quanta. then managed to accumulate 500 mil towards warp beacon schematic.
 
Long  painful grind , hours of mining/hauling / market trading sometimes even at a cost of sleep , as I am an adult with real life responsibilities.
 
1 Billion 150 million quanta ,I have accumulated at a cost of many many hours ,was yesterday  reduced to 11.5 million.  Instead of being one of the few making beacons , i have nothing , when some have it for free.
 
How can i be happy and understanding?
 
 
 

I will explain why ppl are angry today , using myself as an example:
 
after 0.23 patch, i had to spend 200 mil quanta on schematics to get my warp cell/warp drive factory running again.
 
the decided to go for long grind for warp beacon production line:
 
Schematics/ rare industry units cost me around 450 mil quanta. then managed to accumulate 500 mil towards warp beacon schematic.
 
Long  painful grind , hours of mining/hauling / market trading sometimes even at a cost of sleep , as I am an adult with real life responsibilities.
 
1 Billion 150 million quanta ,I have accumulated at a cost of many many hours ,was yesterday  reduced to 11.5 million.  Instead of being one of the few making beacons , i have nothing , when some have it for free.
 
How can i be happy and understanding?
 
 
 

I will explain why ppl are angry today , using myself as an example:
 
after 0.23 patch, i had to spend 200 mil quanta on schematics to get my warp cell/warp drive factory running again.
 
the decided to go for long grind for warp beacon production line:
 
Schematics/ rare industry units cost me around 450 mil quanta. then managed to accumulate 500 mil towards warp beacon schematic.
 
Long  painful grind , hours of mining/hauling / market trading sometimes even at a cost of sleep , as I am an adult with real life responsibilities.
 
1 Billion 150 million quanta ,I have accumulated at a cost of many many hours ,was yesterday  reduced to 11.5 million.  Instead of being one of the few making beacons , i have nothing , when some have it for free.
 
How can i be happy and understanding?
 
 
 

With one decision WHOLE purpose of 0.23 patch was just nullified, making very small part of player base very rich, with immediate access to end game items without any investment.
 
I have been patient since day 1 of the Beta. put up with mistakes , bugs, 5 months without new content, but this .... this is a last straw for me.
 
NO, you cant have my stuff
 
Take care
 

Exactly, i was not doing to it for the quanta , i could have and been making more thru other means, i took it as a challenge to build ,most expensive schematic wise,  warp beacon production line  as a solo player, to achieve something similar to what you have done.
 
Im not a builder, so could not build an amazing racing track, or good looking ship(s), went for something im good at, which is being merchant/crafter.
 
To get me back to playing rollback would be sufficient, not the free quanta or schematics as compensation. What is the point having those , when everyone else has them too, in a game , where we are encouraged to specialize.

Exactly, i was not doing to it for the quanta , i could have and been making more thru other means, i took it as a challenge to build ,most expensive schematic wise,  warp beacon production line  as a solo player, to achieve something similar to what you have done.
 
Im not a builder, so could not build an amazing racing track, or good looking ship(s), went for something im good at, which is being merchant/crafter.
 
To get me back to playing rollback would be sufficient, not the free quanta or schematics as compensation. What is the point having those , when everyone else has them too, in a game , where we are encouraged to specialize.

I will explain why ppl are angry today , using myself as an example:
 
after 0.23 patch, i had to spend 200 mil quanta on schematics to get my warp cell/warp drive factory running again.
 
the decided to go for long grind for warp beacon production line:
 
Schematics/ rare industry units cost me around 450 mil quanta. then managed to accumulate 500 mil towards warp beacon schematic.
 
Long  painful grind , hours of mining/hauling / market trading sometimes even at a cost of sleep , as I am an adult with real life responsibilities.
 
1 Billion 150 million quanta ,I have accumulated at a cost of many many hours ,was yesterday  reduced to 11.5 million.  Instead of being one of the few making beacons , i have nothing , when some have it for free.
 
How can i be happy and understanding?
 
 
 

I will explain why ppl are angry today , using myself as an example:
 
after 0.23 patch, i had to spend 200 mil quanta on schematics to get my warp cell/warp drive factory running again.
 
the decided to go for long grind for warp beacon production line:
 
Schematics/ rare industry units cost me around 450 mil quanta. then managed to accumulate 500 mil towards warp beacon schematic.
 
Long  painful grind , hours of mining/hauling / market trading sometimes even at a cost of sleep , as I am an adult with real life responsibilities.
 
1 Billion 150 million quanta ,I have accumulated at a cost of many many hours ,was yesterday  reduced to 11.5 million.  Instead of being one of the few making beacons , i have nothing , when some have it for free.
 
How can i be happy and understanding?
 
 
 

I will explain why ppl are angry today , using myself as an example:
 
after 0.23 patch, i had to spend 200 mil quanta on schematics to get my warp cell/warp drive factory running again.
 
the decided to go for long grind for warp beacon production line:
 
Schematics/ rare industry units cost me around 450 mil quanta. then managed to accumulate 500 mil towards warp beacon schematic.
 
Long  painful grind , hours of mining/hauling / market trading sometimes even at a cost of sleep , as I am an adult with real life responsibilities.
 
1 Billion 150 million quanta ,I have accumulated at a cost of many many hours ,was yesterday  reduced to 11.5 million.  Instead of being one of the few making beacons , i have nothing , when some have it for free.
 
How can i be happy and understanding?
 
 
 

Scorched Earth tactic is not cheap, it has been used for centuries to deter/ slow down enemy from advancing and deny them any spoils of war. 

Scorched Earth tactic is not cheap, it has been used for centuries to deter/ slow down enemy from advancing and deny them any spoils of war. 

We have been asking for a separate Global/ Community support channels for months, with ability to split tabs, so we can pay attention to more than one.
 
So far we have been ignored

We have been asking for a separate Global/ Community support channels for months, with ability to split tabs, so we can pay attention to more than one.
 
So far we have been ignored

Right now building meaningful sized factory requires effort, before patch one could start manufacturing beacons few days after starting the game

Bots inject quanta into the economy,currently it only source of it not counting welfare checks,  Schematics on the other hand take massive amount of quanta out if the economy.
 
Remove bots and very quickly there will be no quanta in circulation

"Element destruction will impact the restoration count only when it occurs through PvP, at least for now (not when the ship is colliding/falling as we want to avoid having players penalized simply for crashing their ships because they’re learning how to maneuver them, for example). "
 
Ships do not explode when you maneuver them , they explode because server " thinks" construct is in one place, where according to the client side it is in different location, in other words, it is a desync issue.
 
When we crash due to our mistakes we get on and fix them, when it explodes due to poorly coded game we ask for help, simple.
 
Do not shift the blame on Us, fix the problem instead.

Hey guys.

It was December 10th, 2022. I’ve just found a schematic for a flux capacitor at the highest peak of Feli. Later that night I was watching these visionary writings on the screen in my bunk and remembered this day two years ago, the focal point for the things to come:

“It's indeed at the heart of what we have tried to do with 0.23 to make it more like the game is a "society of players" rather than solo/small group self-sufficient entities.”

Spending another three months in the mines I finally managed to finish my time machine and came here and now to warn you.

Dual Universe released officially in the summer of 2022. It was a huge success. The initial wave peaked at 33104 players... Six months later, only 700 players were spread in the vast universe at peak times. How could this happen?

The devs analyzed the dire situation and did the unthinkable. They wiped it all. Let me loosely quote the results of their analysis:  

 
“What We Learned from Season 1

Let’s get that settled right away: a lot of things in the first season didn’t go as we expected they would. Many balance mechanics either didn’t work or backfired altogether.

We wanted to create a game in which PVP can be enjoyed by solos, small groups and large communities alike. … We thought it surely would make the game quite enjoyable for any playstyle.

Well, it didn’t. I could fill dozens of pages with our analysis, but I think it’s better to jump to some of the bigger conclusions.

Clan member numbers exponentially increase the power of a group.

Solos and small groups didn’t have the necessary tools to defend themselves.

Large clans bottlenecked the progression of smaller groups.

The grind, omg, the grind.”


 
I wish this never happened to Dual Universe. But the vision…

There is time. Save this game. Please.

This is a pvp game. Well, not yet, but the mindset of the players is tuned to a pvp game. In pvp games there is no such thing as “all players hugged each other, drank some wine and lived together happily ever after”. It’s a competition, and the blockade of Lacobus because of the Thoramine showed clearly that the quotes apply fully here as well. The big orgs were, are, and will be self-sufficient, and use anything to their full advantage, including the markets, as a weapon to keep others weaker than them. Naturally.

The benefits of being in a large organization come from the numerical superiority and the communication alone, and are sought after by many players, as soon as they find their footing in the game. You don’t need to further increase these benefits, like limiting solo pilots to xs weapons, or to a single radar type, or making it nonviable to build and maintain their ship alone. On the contrary – if the benefits of being in a big org are not limited intentionally, you lose most of the player base. One of the very few successful pvp MMOs of our time has several anti-zerg mechanics for exactly this reason (google “disarray anti zerg” as an example), others try limiting the maximum size of orgs (which doesn’t really work).

It’s not about the game style and setting, it’s about player interactions in a persistent open world pvp game. I could go deeper into stuff like the Bartle's taxonomy of player types or the Maslow's hierarchy of needs in order to explain what motivates players to play a game, to have fun and to generally feel good while playing and thus stay and keep playing. To "nudge" them will backfire. But this is all said and discussed countless times. The question is, can the vision of building of a universe by a society of players coexist with a fulfilling solo/small scale gameplay? I believe it can.


 
*Most of you know, what I’m quoting here. I hope, the one I’m quoting doesn’t get offended by this. I have great respect for him and truly hope his game succeeds. I just wish that such things don’t happen that often to these very few magnificent and extremely difficult to create games, which try to provide a persistent single shard pvp universe to their players.

It should not be allowed if the game rules don't change direction 180% the other way.
 
In this case game changed it's economy completely.
 
Some people dumped mining and decided to go "schematics traders" they are now scrwed.
Some people dumped industry as they couldn't afford it they now can and are screwed up as they can't. They don't have refine/smelt skills.
 
They did decide in the other realities. Currently the game has again changed, the reality is different. Let people adopt.
 
I am not saying it should be constant possibility, it should be when you change your game 180% during beta to let people adopt.
 

Industrialists like myself calculate our product prices, but taking into account ore prices, we do the math real time when the basic ore prices fluctuate, either by using excel sheets, or doing math on paper( oldskool way), so we never sell below production cost , your argument here is not valid.
 
When part destruction be limited to pvp, and RDM blunders fixed, community will get back to ship designing and building, so parts are going to be needed anyway.
 
We do require  on case by case basis, reseting talent points, as some ppl spend their point differently due to massive impact of Death patch 0.23. Now when changes are being readjusted  , those might want to get back to crafting, so that Talent reset request  should be an option from this point onwards

Industrialists like myself calculate our product prices, but taking into account ore prices, we do the math real time when the basic ore prices fluctuate, either by using excel sheets, or doing math on paper( oldskool way), so we never sell below production cost , your argument here is not valid.
 
When part destruction be limited to pvp, and RDM blunders fixed, community will get back to ship designing and building, so parts are going to be needed anyway.
 
We do require  on case by case basis, reseting talent points, as some ppl spend their point differently due to massive impact of Death patch 0.23. Now when changes are being readjusted  , those might want to get back to crafting, so that Talent reset request  should be an option from this point onwards

Industrialists like myself calculate our product prices, but taking into account ore prices, we do the math real time when the basic ore prices fluctuate, either by using excel sheets, or doing math on paper( oldskool way), so we never sell below production cost , your argument here is not valid.
 
When part destruction be limited to pvp, and RDM blunders fixed, community will get back to ship designing and building, so parts are going to be needed anyway.
 
We do require  on case by case basis, reseting talent points, as some ppl spend their point differently due to massive impact of Death patch 0.23. Now when changes are being readjusted  , those might want to get back to crafting, so that Talent reset request  should be an option from this point onwards

"Element destruction will impact the restoration count only when it occurs through PvP, at least for now (not when the ship is colliding/falling as we want to avoid having players penalized simply for crashing their ships because they’re learning how to maneuver them, for example). "
 
Ships do not explode when you maneuver them , they explode because server " thinks" construct is in one place, where according to the client side it is in different location, in other words, it is a desync issue.
 
When we crash due to our mistakes we get on and fix them, when it explodes due to poorly coded game we ask for help, simple.
 
Do not shift the blame on Us, fix the problem instead.

"We will keep monitoring the price of schematics to see if it makes sense to increase or decrease the costs. The right approach to set such a price would be to evaluate how much time it takes to recoup your investment by selling the products that the schematics allow to produce. It should be a few months so that the investment is a real commitment and it makes sense to plan for it.  We currently lack the metrics to properly assess this return on investment time. We need a player-driven market price for the components and a market price for the products to assess the profit made by each run of a schematic. This will come when the markets start to work as intended, and we can gather more data about them. "
 
I am glad for the changes, it feel nice to be heard. but one thing worries me, because you do not seem to get it.
- NOONE and i mean NOONE will be selling components, it is inefficient and not profitable( Just by delivering them to the market profit will be eaten by fuel costs).
For little bit more investment in production line structure, they are going to always bring more profit turned into final product.
 
I would like to see current schematics to be reimbursed.
 
I would like to see those new proposed schematics pricing BEFORE they will get implemented please.
 
ATV needs to be disbanded immediately, and possibly looked into for information leaks, as Gottchar mentioned.
 
Overall good decision.

We are paying for the game to play it as we see fit , not to be told what to do. if we cant play the game in the way we enjoy it , we will move to on one that will let us to so.